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beforethedawn
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Alternatives to force in changing the status quo for the better
#23765751 - 10/24/16 12:26 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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What are some ways to change our world without becoming part of the stream of doubts, fears and hatred?
McKenna said we should attempt to project into the future as far as possible, with our quality of being, quality of consciousness, quality of understanding.
I think this is the best bet. This is where to put your revolution dollars, not in any kind of statements or activism.
Actually making the effort to make changes will definitely get you dragged into a fight.
For me it can only end in hilarity because I don't have any violence to offer,
...just the occasional outburst.
Anyway,
I think we should, to steal more McKenna-ish ideas, be exemplars. Shamanic exemplars, if you can get onto a shamanic level of reality.
Violence = jail. Force = enemies. Showing the way into a future = great success!!! Maybe some enemies, but they are contained within their own projection, they are usually low IQ people, highly brainwashed by culture, very content in their slavery, because they're the winning slaves.
If they enact violence, it's jail for them. If they don't, you win, because the truth can't lose. If you determine all your actions with the truth, which is God, which is love, you can't lose. When you enact violence or force you're starting to fear and they will definitely beat you at the game of fear.
I say again,
THESE PEOPLE WILL BEAT YOU AT THE GAME OF FEAR.
So take the only option that works, not your agenda, but sheer doubtless, choiceless oneness with God.
And live it, live God. He has unseen dimensions of perception and awareness waiting for you.
That is the future - a new consciousness.
We can't lose if we're right.
"If you are right you are a majority of one."
 
(great album)
-------------------- Hostile humankind Can't you see you're fucking blind?
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WackyWizard
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Re: Alternatives to force in changing the status quo for the better [Re: beforethedawn]
#23765849 - 10/24/16 01:59 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm on board. I think you're right about everything except that truth always wins. If that were the case then we wouldn't be in the state we're in. McKenna (whom I love) was wrong about the truth's preeminence making it strong. In the long run, maybe, but the political landscape doesn't look like it's gonna give us 1000 years. Lies can stick for a long time. and I think we do in fact need people to fight the good fight (not with violence). Everybody has their own strengths and weaknesses so everyone has a different role to play. The people on the ground in environmental organizations and such are important too. Also, there is a zen saying that says that if you desire peace in the world then you first need peace in the nation. For peace in the nation you need peace in your locality. For peace there you need peace in the family. For this, peace within.
I'm with you that instilling the shamanic drive toward knowledge and healing should be concern numero uno.
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beforethedawn
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Re: Alternatives to force in changing the status quo for the better [Re: WackyWizard]
#23765875 - 10/24/16 02:42 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I guess with the truth winning - ultimately society doesn't exist, there are just people, and your field of experience is the totality of your reality, and your reality matters.
So,
in the end it all comes right. It's just, do we want to play the saviour game with our Self?
As long as my house doesn't get predator drone'd, I'm in.
Fun as.
All this is glorious.
I love you, God. Yes, you. Thank YOU for this.
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Brian Jones
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Re: Alternatives to force in changing the status quo for the better [Re: beforethedawn]
#23765891 - 10/24/16 03:21 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ghandi is the most often cited example of nonviolent resistance. But my social movements professor said that Ghandi operated a machine gun in the earlier civil war between the "coloreds" and the "blacks" in South Africa. He(my teacher) said non violence could be an effective (especially if there are world media or other 3rd parties watching) measure, but it is generally used when there is no intelligent alternative.
I remember, during the MLK days, thinking that nonviolence was a good strategy. But I have later wondered how the MLK nonviolence strategy would have worked if he wasn't able to compare himself, and be compared to the violent black movements, like Stokely Carmichael, Eldridge Cleaver, The Black Panthers (who a govt. commission said was framed and murdured) and the Nation of Islam (where Malcolm X became the 2nd most powerful member) and then quit, cause he said The honorable Elijah Muhammed was a pervert with underage girls, and he disavowed racial separatism, so his former friends killed him.
I guess Jesus in his later career was using the nonviolent strategy as well, and him and MLK both knew they were going to die, and they continued on with their movements. They have historic staying power, obviously Jesus had a couple more thousand years.
My social movements professor said you don't have to use violence but you have to apply coercion. He also had us read Saul Alinsky, who the right wingers on here think was a Marxist Lennonist, and I wonder If a single one of them ever actually read a Saul Alinsky book.
And I am disinterested in Acid heads, particularly as intellectuals. 2 years in the 70's was fine (and had to be done; You got to do it) and that's probably when I read Kesey and Wolfe's book about Kesey, but it's one of those things, that's supposed to be temporary.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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zzripz
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Re: Alternatives to force in changing the status quo for the better [Re: beforethedawn]
#23766195 - 10/24/16 08:45 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I neither trust(ed) either Leary or McKenna, they were both psychedelic transhumanists!
Transhumanism (H+ for short) is the elite's agenda!!
So hmmmm could this be why that Leary and McKenna are two of the most prominent leaders in the psychedelic movement spanning generations?
See how that the ruling elite are very VERY devious and could fix it that their ideas could infiltrate the psychedelic movement and impressionable psychedelically 'chaotic' minds
Same thing happened in the 1960s when Eastern ideas became a focus point for many hippies, and this 'became' new age ideas---eg you must always be 'positive', and not trust thinking, but meditate to get rid of thinking Sit very still... ommmmmmm
See how all that suits those who do not WANT us to think or act?
I came across this most disgusting letter from the evil King Leopold. It is VERY revealing and shows you how the social controllers minds work. Look at images of the ugly fck (in Google images). Look at his dead eyes and dead expression. No soul, humanity, no feeling there at all. But yeah read his nasty letter, and his instructions to preach from the Bible parts like 'the weak shall inherit the earth' etc. So as to make sure his victims don't rightfully fight back and stop their oppression as he and his lackeys rob the land and their body and minds.
Christianity is a slave religion preached by evil preachers with a bible in one hand and a gun in the other:
Letter from King Leopold II of Belgium to Colonial Missionaries, 1883
I am not saying like 'yeah let's go to war'. It is more a standing up to what is wrong which is real activism. They--the mindset which is anti-life--are destroying the natural world that all of us including all species--the ones not made extinct YET--depend on. We are nature. WAKE UP to what is actually going on, the urgency of this!
BOTH Leary and McKenna downplayed the utter VITAL importance of the natural world and our connection with it. Leary for example was against the ecology movement because he believed it hindered 'our' evolutionary transhumanist future, leaving the 'womb planet' and exploring the universe.
McKenna was pushing how technology via a 'singularity' would be 'our' saviour, and went on and on about '2012' which was a false prophecy also, but had many hooked and sold a lot of books and vids and made people lots of money.
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remake


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Re: Alternatives to force in changing the status quo for the better [Re: zzripz]
#23766246 - 10/24/16 09:18 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Truth be told, which is what we all wish we hold, Is not to infringe another anomaly of astrological atrocity. For it is within our own hands through which a surge may flow Keep it true and keep it clean. For it is actions that shall speak of surrender. Our fear lies in our decisive non-action. A plagiarized regret! Forget! and bloom! Bloom and burn! BURN THIS MOTHERFUCKER DOWN!
The words, the words of the wanking wombats withering away. Of course it's okay. Flip that force into yourself And float away!
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sudly
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Re: Alternatives to force in changing the status quo for the better [Re: beforethedawn]
#23767283 - 10/24/16 03:52 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
I say again,
THESE PEOPLE WILL BEAT YOU AT THE GAME OF FEAR.
So take the only option that works, not your agenda, but sheer doubtless, choiceless oneness with God.
And live it, live God. He has unseen dimensions of perception and awareness waiting for you.
That is the future - a new consciousness.
We can't lose if we're right.
"If you are right you are a majority of one."
There are more than 2500 historically cataloged gods and deities and they can't all be right but they can all be wrong.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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beforethedawn
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Re: Alternatives to force in changing the status quo for the better [Re: sudly]
#23768392 - 10/24/16 09:38 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think "they" want us to use force and violence so they can jail us.
Why use force / violence when you totally don't have to. Make your life an example.
Besides, there's something called conscience.
I hope the agencies following me now are reading this and realise I'm just trying to do what human nature demands. I have no agenda but a fuller, more prosperous society here in Australia.
If we expand everyone's consciousness by removing fear imagine the ideas that will flow in academia, everyone will be 'smart', everyone will matter. It's what the country is about.
Then everyone gets the fuller, brighter perception that makes consumerism defunct.
People won't go to drugs...
Most of us are scared and depressed and it's just God playing his game. Let's turn this around without creating any problems in the process.
-------------------- Hostile humankind Can't you see you're fucking blind?
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beforethedawn
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Re: Alternatives to force in changing the status quo for the better [Re: beforethedawn]
#23768398 - 10/24/16 09:39 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Of course the joke of it is,
we're already there, we already won.
-------------------- Hostile humankind Can't you see you're fucking blind?
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zzripz
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Re: Alternatives to force in changing the status quo for the better [Re: beforethedawn]
#23769337 - 10/25/16 09:20 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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go and tell the frontline slaves that
go and tell the innocent victims in Syria
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The Blind Ass
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Re: Alternatives to force in changing the status quo for the better [Re: zzripz] 1
#23769362 - 10/25/16 09:30 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I can only rehash the ancient wisdom here. Change oneself, and work from within the system by living example. All the elements of life you talk about "they and them and the others" having are 100% in our own lives to varying degrees of expression and some are gross and some are subtle. You begin the work there and end it there.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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zzripz
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Re: Alternatives to force in changing the status quo for the better [Re: The Blind Ass]
#23769722 - 10/25/16 11:38 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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why should I change myself if another is oppressing me?
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remake


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Re: Alternatives to force in changing the status quo for the better [Re: zzripz]
#23769795 - 10/25/16 12:01 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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You - don't have any influence by ranting and shouting about the problem, instead of instigating a physical solution that is constructive instead of destructive. You - don't have to change anything, right now, you can't and you won't. No one owes - you - anything.
You are in control of yourself. "Their" oppressions are a device you carved yourself.
If you look at the facts laid and spread out before you, you will see that you are slacking. Pick up the slack. And make yourself happy. That's all you have to do. Make yourself happy by doing something you like, that is positive and contributes to a larger picture. Get some cheddar, and help those who are helpless once you are in a position to do so.
The rabbithole of the blame and shame game is endless with no sunny sight in view. And it goes on and on and on. Snap out. Slip in.
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The Blind Ass
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Re: Alternatives to force in changing the status quo for the better [Re: zzripz]
#23769971 - 10/25/16 01:02 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zzripz said: why should I change myself if another is oppressing me?
More reason to do it. The "self" is malleable and pliant when disciplined and trained accordingly.
Plus its the one thing easily in your power to control and change at any and every single moment if you know how. Doing so actually impacts your surrounds. If your talking about some abusive relationship or something, its simple really - just detach from it and get out. If you let your attachments keep you in something as oppressive as you claim then your doing it to yourself. Maybe you cant see what Im getting at , cant pick up what im putting down, because its subtle and hard to see, not easily discernible for those who are distracted with wordy life and whos minds are fettered.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (10/25/16 01:34 PM)
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zzripz
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Re: Alternatives to force in changing the status quo for the better [Re: The Blind Ass]
#23770676 - 10/25/16 04:50 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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This is all New Age BS ideas to me
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viktor
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Re: Alternatives to force in changing the status quo for the better [Re: beforethedawn]
#23770769 - 10/25/16 05:26 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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As I see it, there are two major alternatives to force.
The first is trickery and deceit. Note that not all trickery and deceit is evil. Telling your children a story about Santa Claus might give them a sense of wonder and teach them some basic morality, even if it's false.
The second is harder to describe accurately, but could be likened to the way that heat radiates. In this way one simply radiates a kind of joy that inspires others to also be joyful.
The first is much easier to achieve than the second and most people have extreme difficulty getting their heads around the idea that the second way is even possible.
Hell, there are enough people who can't get their heads around alternatives to force full stop.
The second way begins, I think, with making peace with death. Only then is it possible to radiate true joy into the world.
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
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beforethedawn
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Re: Alternatives to force in changing the status quo for the better [Re: viktor]
#23770841 - 10/25/16 05:50 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Excellent stuff viktor + others.
Being convinced of the play of life, the perfection, is the ultimate joy.
You encapsulate life and death.
-------------------- Hostile humankind Can't you see you're fucking blind?
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The Blind Ass
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Re: Alternatives to force in changing the status quo for the better [Re: zzripz]
#23770855 - 10/25/16 05:54 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zzripz said: This is all New Age BS ideas to me
In fact its extremely old. I dont have to convince you, if you want to believe your oppressed then damnit you are! fight others because you think that will make change so be it or fight to change things outside yourself to the extent you can sure thats good. No new age stuff here dude. Its conventional wisdom. You dont know oppression boy. Your living in the west in the 21st century. New age bs my ass.
I pity you. best of luck to ya and i hope you can bring about the change you seek one day. Rise above man! You can do it! If not why are you talking about it in the first place.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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beforethedawn
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Re: Alternatives to force in changing the status quo for the better [Re: The Blind Ass]
#23770856 - 10/25/16 05:55 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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-------------------- Hostile humankind Can't you see you're fucking blind?
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zzripz
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Re: Alternatives to force in changing the status quo for the better [Re: The Blind Ass]
#23772330 - 10/26/16 04:56 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
I dont have to convince you, if you want to believe your oppressed then damnit you are!
So say, if I am a slave and AM feeling oppressed, if I just follow your advice and think: 'I am not oppressed', I will stop thinking ,and feeling, and being oppressed?
Edited by zzripz (10/26/16 04:57 AM)
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The Blind Ass
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Re: Alternatives to force in changing the status quo for the better [Re: zzripz]
#23773085 - 10/26/16 12:01 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zzripz said:
Quote:
I dont have to convince you, if you want to believe your oppressed then damnit you are!
So say, if I am a slave and AM feeling oppressed, if I just follow your advice and think: 'I am not oppressed', I will stop thinking ,and feeling, and being oppressed?
Your a slave? sorry to hear that. Lets start at that point of knowledge then. How did you become a slave.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (10/26/16 12:11 PM)
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zzripz
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Re: Alternatives to force in changing the status quo for the better [Re: The Blind Ass]
#23773910 - 10/26/16 04:45 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said:
Quote:
zzripz said:
Quote:
I dont have to convince you, if you want to believe your oppressed then damnit you are!
So say, if I am a slave and AM feeling oppressed, if I just follow your advice and think: 'I am not oppressed', I will stop thinking ,and feeling, and being oppressed?
Your a slave? sorry to hear that. Lets start at that point of knowledge then. How did you become a slave.
What don't you understand by the 'so say, if..'? I am a slave by degrees, but that is for another time. I am meaning pretend/imagine i am a slave on a plantation, and suffer all the abuse slaves can suffer. It is not about how I became a slave. I AM a slave, and my life is oppressed continually, as are people I love. So you say I can think I am not oppressed? How?
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The Blind Ass
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Re: Alternatives to force in changing the status quo for the better [Re: zzripz]
#23774025 - 10/26/16 05:19 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Your oppressed. I see that now.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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zzripz
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Re: Alternatives to force in changing the status quo for the better [Re: The Blind Ass]
#23775569 - 10/27/16 03:49 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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you don't know anything about me.
But I can see you dodged my question.
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phio


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Re: Alternatives to force in changing the status quo for the better [Re: beforethedawn] 1
#23789732 - 10/31/16 07:51 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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World's going to be what the world's going to be and that's because people by and large want it to be that way...
You can piss in the wind... You'll more than likely get piss stained clothes and the wind will continue to blow.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, And wisdom to know the difference.
Want to make a change in the world? Look in the mirror. Be the change you want to see in the world. The End.
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beforethedawn
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Re: Alternatives to force in changing the status quo for the better [Re: phio]
#23789966 - 10/31/16 09:37 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Very good, very good.
-------------------- Hostile humankind Can't you see you're fucking blind?
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redgreenvines
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Re: Alternatives to force in changing the status quo for the better [Re: zzripz]
#23790609 - 11/01/16 08:04 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zzripz said: you don't know anything about me.
But I can see you dodged my question.
I think you dodged his questions. you are so addicted to your oppression theme that you perform the addict escape by reversing roles and blaming others for your own actions so you can leave the room for another hit.
but let us just say you had captured and disarmed the "slavers who had enslaved you", what would you do then to change the status quo for the better?
--------------------
_ 🧠_
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zzripz
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Re: Alternatives to force in changing the status quo for the better [Re: redgreenvines]
#23790787 - 11/01/16 09:41 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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you seem to think a lot, but it doesn't make it true.
And now your answering for someone else I addressed.
Quote:
you are so addicted to your oppression theme that you perform the addict escape by reversing roles and blaming others for your own actions so you can leave the room for another hit.
thinking again 
Quite an arrogant and rude assumption. You do not know anything about me, and if you DID know me and said that, I would let you know a thing or two. it is not even worth a dignified response, but meditate on this:
Quote:
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
Quote:
but let us just say you had captured and disarmed the "slavers who had enslaved you", what would you do then to change the status quo for the better?
Another question dodger?
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