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DualWieldRake
Stranger


Registered: 07/17/16
Posts: 1,115
Loc: Zone 8b
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Solipsis
m̶a̶d̶ disappointed scientist



Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 3,398
Loc: the Neitherlands
Last seen: 5 months, 19 days
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Thanks for that info ^
I now realize that I have an incorrect understanding of which colors are needed and have way too much blue while I need both blue and red with a majority of red (though that red was mostly interesting for flowering).
I would like to make a diy led panel, but am really concerned about fire hazards... imp what can you tell me about that?
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impaired420
Everything Is Nothing



Registered: 11/10/14
Posts: 1,390
Loc: Somewhere
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I've never made any panels. Maybe Oggy can help with that.
As long as your power supply can handle the output of the leds and you have a heat sink or two then I don't think it should be a problem but I'm no electrician.
Edited by impaired420 (12/26/16 10:48 AM)
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JustAnotherAsshole
DILLIGAF



Registered: 11/29/08
Posts: 1,853
Loc: Nowhereville
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This guy has a great understanding of what makes and breaks and led light. He's currently building a panel himself. I'm sure hed be willing to share info with ya to help ya out. https://www.growery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/821642#821642
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spaceman101
Friend to all



Registered: 01/18/13
Posts: 11,726
Loc: In heaven bored as hell
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Re: LED lighting [Re: Oggy]
#23958752 - 12/26/16 04:45 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Oggy said: Sure, I have some of the first iteration but none of the current one, but maybe soon when I swap some lights out.
"work-in-progress"

in action, extremely unpleasant to look into even in-directly

and a picture of a calea zacatechichi cutting (rip 2014-2016 ) under the panel at about 4 maybe 5 feet distance

They also overpower the 85w 5200k CFL I have in there in fact, you can still notice that the green leaves on my plants seems blacker.
Oh, I use an old computer power supply I picked up for $5 to power them. It's super stable which is nice because I get frequent power outages. 
Sweet I was correct. Have you gotten to the point to where you might put something together that could show us exactly how you did this so we can join your Fuck Big Money Lights Revolution???
-------------------- ------------- Check out my Pollen Trade thread for spreading Good genetics far and wide Great Vendors thread where we can discuss "Non Shroomery" Vendors that sell good products worth checking into A few things I wanna get my hands on check it out and let me know if you have any of these Need help getting started growing mushrooms Here's The Noob Forum
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Oggy
Stranger Danger


Registered: 12/05/14
Posts: 1,276
Loc: Planet Remulak
Last seen: 6 months, 29 days
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I can give you guys a quick write up on my current build if you want. It took about 40 minutes to assemble once all of the modules were setup. The only tools you will need are a soldering iron and a multimeter(for fine tuning), wire strippers are optional but very useful. The soldering requirement is beginner friendly but prepare to burn yourselves good a few times if you haven't used one before. It's a right of passage after all.
I received all of my parts online from ebay. They're cheap and chinese. But with a price tag of maybe $20 per 45 watts of lighting, it's well worth it IMO. If you're already looking at LEDs on ebay any LED labeled as 600-630nm or whatever the orange wavelength falls under is misleading. The spec sheets on ebay are wrong and say they operate at up to 700mA but they don't and it's more like 250mA.
[edit] one more thing. White LEDs are not a thing. They are typically just blue with a yellow phosphor meaning don't fall for any full spectrum LED scam. An LED can only output one wavelength at a time.
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Edited by Oggy (12/26/16 05:43 PM)
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Solipsis
m̶a̶d̶ disappointed scientist



Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 3,398
Loc: the Neitherlands
Last seen: 5 months, 19 days
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Re: LED lighting [Re: Oggy]
#23968153 - 12/30/16 01:15 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Thanks that would be great! How did you select your LEDs? I understand that just any regular LED may not be appropriate for this kind of application.
Am personally considering Luxeons or Cree, if I can find an affordable type particularly suited for growing.
I have experience with soldering though it's been a while. Am also going to continue with Arduino etc. Maybe I can just use an adapter that outputs DC 18v and combine parallel and serial to match it? Unclear if a dedicated fan is vital, it is being put in a unit that gets regular ventilation but maybe that is not reliable enough. Cooling fins are not enough?
http://www.ledsupply.com/diy-makersled-led-grow-light
This looks good, over the top expensive though..
Maybe these are also okay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-100pcs-3W-3Watt-deep-red-650nm-660nm-led-chip-Plant-grow-light-with-20mm-pcb-/252567641822?var=551479647554&hash=item3ace345ede:m:mi9RD6iXGmpJkHJhHaLN9oA
Scratch that, I think I like products of this vendor better: http://www.ebay.com/usr/2012topdeal?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
It seems they calculate the "3W" leds using the reverse voltage which seems silly, meaning they are not actually 3W with normal forward use.
Edited by Solipsis (12/30/16 02:08 PM)
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Oggy
Stranger Danger


Registered: 12/05/14
Posts: 1,276
Loc: Planet Remulak
Last seen: 6 months, 29 days
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I picked my LEDs after researching a little bit on photosynthesis. I chose two photosynthesis peaks for chlorophyll A, two for chlorophyll B and two for some carotenoids. I learned that it's impossible for an LED to emit an exact wavelength, so I didn't care much about exact matches after that point. There would be so many LEDs in each array that the spectrum emitted should be fairly wide but close to what I had picked. This was also my deciding factor in whether or not I should purchase chinese or something like Cree. I eventually chose 3W LEDs in the following ranges: 430nm, 453nm, 448nm(blues), 662nm, 642nm and 612nm(reds). The 430-448nm range are labeled as summer lighting in my notes, the other fall; probably because their blue and red colors. I also elected to use two full spectrum CFLs in my tent because of articles like this.
Those 6 wavelengths translated into just 4 different LEDs on ebay and I ended up buying a total of 60 LEDs. I later learned that some of LEDs were not the same as the spec sheet they came with and blew all of those up. I think they were probably 1W versions of the orange LEDs, the spares I had would only take something like 250mA instead of 700mA.
Each array had LEDs in series of 3, 5 in parallel. So each panel would pull under 3.5A. I tweaked each series to run at around 650mA. So a wall charger won't work or be safe. Stability also helps keep your LEDs alive. I would go with an LED driver from ebay for like $15 or whatever they go for. The most important thing to look out for in those is maximum voltage and current. I didn't go this route because I chose to force my lights to dictate that. I also just use power supply from an old computer because it's super stable and has built in protections. It also says it handles 30A but I haven't been brave enough to test that out yet.
Each LED series has an adjustable buck converter(wasteful! but cheap) and a LM317(probably wasteful too, but also very cheap, also apparently very popular as an LED driver by itself). I did it this way because I like the fact that I can change input voltage and current to exactly whatever I desire. I can tweak it just right if my settings some how get out of wack. The buck converter also acts as a surge protector by itself thankfully because I plugged an array into an AC socket once and blew every single one of them up. The LEDs were fine, though.
As for a fan, I don't use one. They stay cool enough that in over a year of use I haven't had any issues. My second build stays much cooler because I basically plastered the LEDs to a long flat bar of aluminum with some thermal paste.
If you're still interested in the process of putting it together I'll write up a quick schematic and see if I can get pictures of assembling the module.
Sorry for typos.
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Edited by Oggy (12/30/16 11:03 PM)
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Solipsis
m̶a̶d̶ disappointed scientist



Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 3,398
Loc: the Neitherlands
Last seen: 5 months, 19 days
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Re: LED lighting [Re: Oggy]
#23971647 - 12/31/16 07:14 PM (7 years, 30 days ago) |
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Happy New Year!
Thanks that's good info 
For now you don't have to bother with the schematics since I did some more research and I think I am clear on how to calculate how to match your x times y series and parallel circuits using the LED specs and matched with a proper driver.
And I also realize that it's best to use mostly red LEDs and also blue LEDs, then extra additions in order would be to add orange-red to the spectrum, and also an option to add royal blue and deep red, which I might do if it doesn't really change much for the order I place. And yeah 3W seem most common.
Ideally I would get aluminum "fixtures" meaning finned heatsinks with a surface to just glue the LEDs onto.. I found really cheap ones, only 10 cm long per unit but like 1.50$ which is nothing compared to some other prices for them. If really necessary I can let a fan blow air through the fins. Remember that I am planning to put these in an enclosed unit that will be slightly warmed, so much less passive circulation perhaps. (Also I learned that you let a fan blow air through and out of the heatsink, not straight onto it - bad airflow basically.) I should have a PSU from a computer so that should be good - although I will have to see if it wasn't one that was misbehaving.
What I don't know is how many to use on a certain surface area... below are pictures of the growing unit I am building as part of this project.. it's certainly not a big area (something like 100 x 50 cm per level so consider it 4 squares of 50x50 or 1"8' x 1"8' each) and I already have some (LED) lights although they are incomplete spectra (a number are blue + white). The primary goal of building my own high powered LED array would be to try and give cacti and certain other exotics what they need that they are not getting now. It seems like cacti are not all that easy to give enough artificial light, especially with LEDs and/or if you are not using heavy professional gear.
I'll let you know when I proceed (first a few other steps of the project), and what specs I consider and how I want to hook it up - maybe your wisdom can help me avoid blowing stuff up unnecessarily. 
While I will be running any LED array in a fireproof case for a while testing heat and other stuff before I trust it, I am generally not too worried about it. It's probably arduino, relays etc that is gonna be a bitch (PWM frequency to control a fan? aaargh!!)
  
Since this is basically a sort of martha and one of the levels will be humid and the other arid, I will make sure to only get waterproof drivers and generally waterproof everything I can (with kit perhaps?).. perhaps I will be able to fruit some shrooms in there as well when ready, or at least with a humidity dome of some kind until I get my humidification sorted.
Maybe I will make a log out of this entire project, we'll see.. I will be blogging about it anyway on my site. (zwonko.com)
Edited by Solipsis (12/31/16 07:22 PM)
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Dorfnob
J.U.I.C.E.


Registered: 07/28/12
Posts: 737
Last seen: 2 days, 15 hours
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didn't realize you two were already talking about making your own. that's definitely the way to go.
Edited by Dorfnob (12/31/16 07:36 PM)
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Solipsis
m̶a̶d̶ disappointed scientist



Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 3,398
Loc: the Neitherlands
Last seen: 5 months, 19 days
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Re: LED lighting [Re: Dorfnob]
#23971676 - 12/31/16 07:33 PM (7 years, 30 days ago) |
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way ahead of you but I appreciate you thinking along, it IS a good idea for sure!
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Oggy
Stranger Danger


Registered: 12/05/14
Posts: 1,276
Loc: Planet Remulak
Last seen: 6 months, 29 days
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I would advise against the PSU route because it can be quite dangerous. The capacitors in there can kill you if you discharge. If you're comfortable with that then you will most likely need to keep a load on your psu otherwise it might not power on. This is simple and usually only requires that you splice two wires together.
The best thing you can do for cooling off your LEDs is with thermal paste. You can get 10 grams of it for like a dollar on ebay, even from american sellers.
The 3x5 thing is a bit more complicated than that. You will need to do some ohm's law conversions to keep your LEDs alive. I would suggest building each series and testing the current with a multimeter. If you go with the 3W the magic number is going to be around 650mA.
Once you get all of your parts together let me know. I love this sort of thing and wouldn't mind helping you out, especially with the math.
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Solipsis
m̶a̶d̶ disappointed scientist



Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 3,398
Loc: the Neitherlands
Last seen: 5 months, 19 days
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Re: LED lighting [Re: Oggy]
#23972375 - 01/01/17 06:13 AM (7 years, 29 days ago) |
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That's surprising... why would just tapping power from the molex connectors be dangerous?
Thanks for the tip, weird how I got that misinformation online then..
So the LEDs have their own resistance which determines how much current passes and this is not a simple addition like voltage as I recall, but it's not just limited by the bottleneck either? So ohm conversions it is then.. and if necessary apply a resistor, but preferably just pick a driver that is a great match? We'll go over it when i pick the components i guess.
But maybe i can use random LEDs i have on hand to make a very small test array as practice.
Is it smart to get 2.5V max LEDs at something like 2.25V for optimal lifespan vs. loss of light intensity?
I have various assorted parts already meant for the Arduino etc, which I am still only in the first stages of testing and setting up. So am good on the basic electronic gear. But definitely need a multimeter, will buy that today.
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Oggy
Stranger Danger


Registered: 12/05/14
Posts: 1,276
Loc: Planet Remulak
Last seen: 6 months, 29 days
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Tapping the molex connectors probably won't kill you at 12v, but putting a screw driver on the capacitor leads may. They hold a lot more than 12 volts. LEDs won't have resistance, you will define this in the circuit with voltage / current. If you use similar LEDs as mine, each series of 3 may end up having a forward voltage of around 9-10.5v after you have adjusted the current. I believe they have max voltages ranging from 2.2 to 3.6v. I just mix and matched the LEDs in each series to keep that forward voltage under 10.75v(the buck converters I use have a 1.25v drop).
Optimal lifespan will entirely depend on how hot they get and the maximum current that you let them draw. Mine are rated with a forward current of 700mA but I keep them all at 650mA which isn't too far from their max but around the point they stop getting brighter. They have this bad habit of drawing more current the hotter they get, so a constant current supply is going to be necessary. Luckily LM317's work very well for this and are easy to setup.
Arduino's are fun! Beware, you're gonna enjoy it.
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Solipsis
m̶a̶d̶ disappointed scientist



Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 3,398
Loc: the Neitherlands
Last seen: 5 months, 19 days
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Re: LED lighting [Re: Oggy]
#23973098 - 01/01/17 01:48 PM (7 years, 29 days ago) |
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As I understand it, 12V even at high current won't shock you because of high resistance of the body becoming too much of a bottleneck? But anyway, I am not about to mess with any live electronics hooked up to such power if I can help it 
Am busy freshening up my electronics as preparation Also looking into potting the electronics.. preferably to find some polymer putty or some sort (or epoxy i don't mind) that doesn't conduct or corrode and properly glues and stays put, that can hopefully also help seal the door windows of the growhouse.
The LM317 eats up excess charge?? Or is it just a component of your driver / converter? In any case that's what truly limits your current, otherwise regardless of power source or components it's technically possible for the current to overload (such as when heating up into vicious circle?)
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impaired420
Everything Is Nothing



Registered: 11/10/14
Posts: 1,390
Loc: Somewhere
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
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Awesome thread I'm learning a lot lol.
-------------------- "Our task must be to free ourselves... By widening our circle of compassion, To embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature and its beauty." -Albert Einstein Offering salvia divinorum clones, leaf, and extracts for trades legal states.
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MadBotanist



Registered: 11/23/14
Posts: 279
Loc: Wonderland
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I suggest Mars LED 300watt panel (150 true watts) for 70$
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Solipsis
m̶a̶d̶ disappointed scientist



Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 3,398
Loc: the Neitherlands
Last seen: 5 months, 19 days
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Yeah that's hard to top, seems like good value. Still inclined to make my own if it's still competitive - i like a custom job while i'm at it..
Ma hood, homies:

Am going to cover it with the same transparent foil that I made the windows of the doors with, but almost entirely painted white from the inside. Gives a pretty slick classic iPod like effect. A part will be left transparent so that the microcontroller and TFT screen will be visible, like the window of a modded PC case. On the side will be the control panel, with buttons and status lights etc - left a square-ish 'window'. I plan on getting some double-sided sticky foil to glue a printed control panel background (with text next to buttons and lights) to the backside of a piece of transparent foil.
And schematics for the arduino, but some components are chosen for lack of the exact one in the application.. also still have to add the TFT screen and LED plant lighting. I have the TFT screen here, that one is going to be a bitch too 
http://imgur.com/a/glwUs

Rough sketch i made last night but let me know if you see anything wrong!  Yes I know, the heating power source is supposed to just be AC, and is not an actual peltier element. And oops I forgot to add a resistor for the rather 'obligatory' power status led on the left.
I don't know why fritzing doesn't show where lines hop over each other instead of nodes... it's unclear in the jpg (but in the program i can see by the 'dots' at nodes)
Edited by Solipsis (01/11/17 09:52 AM)
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Solipsis
m̶a̶d̶ disappointed scientist



Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 3,398
Loc: the Neitherlands
Last seen: 5 months, 19 days
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Added pics and have tested terrarium heating cable, I only get to 23C in the lower level.
I think that kind of cable is only good for heating the ground but not so much the air above it... so maybe in the upper layer I should just install a HID lamp for cacti and use the heat from that by controlling fans.
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Solipsis
m̶a̶d̶ disappointed scientist



Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 3,398
Loc: the Neitherlands
Last seen: 5 months, 19 days
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Re: LED lighting [Re: Solipsis]
#24108394 - 02/21/17 01:57 PM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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Here are some pics of my pretty much finished unit.. but it still has to be dialed in - need to spice up the ventilation for that hot HID lamp upstairs.
Upgrading LED will come a little later I guess (very busy)
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