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OfflineEzuma
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Re: You ever wonder what life would be like without drugs? [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 1
    #23762453 - 10/22/16 10:00 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

well, when I say I don't buy their rhetoric, I don't mean that basic stuff. There's a lot of science proving meditation's efficacy. What I disagree with is when people argue meditation does what something like DMT does. I may be wrong but I've never heard anyone talk about their meditation in any way that sounded like a peak psychedelic experience.
as far as lasting life benefit, meditation is superior I'm sure, partly just because people do it more frequently than they trip though, I'd imagine.

I admit though I don't meditate seriously so this is just judging from reading experiences, not my own experience. And I don't have 20 years to spend on a mountain so I'll likely never know sadly


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OfflineWeAreMushroom
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Re: You ever wonder what life would be like without drugs? [Re: Ezuma] * 2
    #23762455 - 10/22/16 10:00 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ezuma said:
Quote:

Chakra Shock said:
Ram Dass gave a buddhist monk in India some LSD and the next morning when he asked the monk how it was he said "it's good, but not as good as meditation".




I've heard that monk actually didn't take the lsd.
I don't buy the meditation crowd's rhetoric, I mean sure you can do cool things with it, even go places with enough time and the right conditions, but to me the fact that solid information on this is incredibly hard to find always implies to me it's just cult rhetoric at work.





I just spent two months backpacking in New Zealand and stayed at a zen commune where a I met a man named John who was 70 and claimed to spend 10+ hours of the day in meditation. He said he had been doing this for 40+ years,

Everyone there was into meditating for very long periods of time and done vispassana meditation, where you meditate for 14 days and don't talk at all.

John was a very strange man and for someone that you would expect to be sort of a guru, he was actually sort of a crotchety old man. The amount of time he spent meditating really ate away at his ability to interact with humans effectively. He was very awkward. It made me wonder what about his meditation was so good that he wanted to do it for 10 hours a day.

Other people at this commune believed things like that if you meditate long enough you can breathe underwater or go entirely without food and just live off of sunlight.

One of the people there though looked a solid 20 years younger than his age. I was amazed when I found out how old he was. I had been treating him like a little brother and I found out he was almost as old as my dad! He said he attributed it all to meditation and being vegetarian since birth.

He was a cool cat. I gave him some acid. I'm sure it improved his meditation.


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OfflineEzuma
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Re: You ever wonder what life would be like without drugs? [Re: WeAreMushroom]
    #23762461 - 10/22/16 10:01 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I wish I knew zen types to hang out with and observe. I'm always convinced everyone's a poser though, cynic that I am.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: You ever wonder what life would be like without drugs? [Re: Ezuma]
    #23762465 - 10/22/16 10:03 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ezuma said:
I may be wrong but I've never heard anyone talk about their meditation in any way that sounded like a peak psychedelic experience.



Allow me to prove you wrong; the peak states I've achieved in meditation surpass any peak psychedelic experience I've ever had. And I've got a few +4's (Shulgin scale) under my belt.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflineEzuma
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Re: You ever wonder what life would be like without drugs? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23762472 - 10/22/16 10:06 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

well that's encouraging
:ooo:

I seriously don't think I could go there though, I don't have the discipline for psychedelics let alone years of meditation I'm sure.

although psychedelics are also less cool for me than others it seems, as I almost never have visuals even when others on the same dose next to me see faces and beings everywhere, and there I am just obsessively thinking about historical progression of class warfare while trying to suppress nausea and rising anxiety lol


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Invisibleohcrapitsnico
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Re: You ever wonder what life would be like without drugs? [Re: Ezuma]
    #23762475 - 10/22/16 10:07 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I used to do a lot of meditation and it didn't do anything for me, retrospectively, I would always fall asleep in the middle of it and wake upan hour later, so I guess it was good for getting sleep. :lol: I got taught really special too on how to meditate so I feel like I was doing it legit. On the other hand, psychedelic drugs have changed my personality, outlook on life, values, and so many things about me, plus I have made major life decisions on them which have always turned out amazingly well. :shrug:


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OfflineEzuma
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Re: You ever wonder what life would be like without drugs? [Re: ohcrapitsnico]
    #23762483 - 10/22/16 10:09 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I will say I can meditate to a stoned state easily, and its an enjoyable pastime at that low level, but I doubt I'd ever reach those heights of vision and encounters with entities through meditation


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: You ever wonder what life would be like without drugs? [Re: Ezuma]
    #23762496 - 10/22/16 10:12 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

It's taken me 8 years of commitment to meditation practice, so I's no easy path. The potential rewards though.. man, you can't even begin to imagine them until you start to reap them.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Invisibleohcrapitsnico
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Re: You ever wonder what life would be like without drugs? [Re: Ezuma]
    #23762500 - 10/22/16 10:13 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Lol I've tripped with people before and heard the same fantastical hallucinations from them and I'd be pissed cause I never got that, just a mindfuck. But I've realized they were likely exaggerating which would fit my other experiences on drugs with them. :lol: I get really weak visuals on shrooms, even at high doses with ego death, very little to speak of. It's only when I combine mdma with a psychedelic or cactus that i get phenomenal vision like hallucinations, being able to immerse myself in other worlds. :thumbup:


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OfflineChakra Shock
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Re: You ever wonder what life would be like without drugs? [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 1
    #23762504 - 10/22/16 10:13 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)


Quote:

Chakra Shock said:
Just saying, there's no need to put drugs on a pedestal by thinking that life is inherently better by taking them.



Or perhaps thinking that life would be inherently be better by not taking them?

I agree, the connection comes from within. But it for me, it takes hours of concentration sober, or eating a psychedelic to achieve.

Perhaps that path is one of laziness?




Well it also takes courage. Psychedelics are fucking intense, even if it's something you're used to, IME.

But for sure, that definitely needs to be said too and I agree, life is not inherently better by abstaining from drugs, either. It's all a matter of perspective.


I wasn't even necessarily referring to meditation, but more so inner awakening, having an experience of reality beyond the senses in which pure consciousness takes precedence over the awareness of sensations.

You don't have to sit on a mountain for twenty years or meditate for 10 hours a day, but anything you can experience on a psychedelic is possible without one, too, simply because these experiences are, ultimately, occurring within our selves.




And to add in with my own experiences to relate to what JSB was saying about peak meditation experiences, I'm recalling a single experience of meditation which was breathtaking beyond anything I ever could have imagined, and is very much so similar to my psychedelic experiences in terms of personal meaning and growth, but, honestly, it feels more profound. I can only relate it to you now through the narrow scope of my waking consciousness, and won't bother trying to describe it, but hopefully my words can do something to relate to you the impact that it had on my life, it's something I am eternally grateful for. It's not something that I would expect everyone to have experienced, though I wish they could. I want to share the feeling I had and can sometimes tap into with as many people as possible.


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Invisibleohcrapitsnico
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Re: You ever wonder what life would be like without drugs? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23762505 - 10/22/16 10:14 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
It's taken me 8 years of commitment to meditation practice, so I's no easy path. The potential rewards though.. man, you can't even begin to imagine them until you start to reap them.



Like what rewards?


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OfflineEzuma
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Re: You ever wonder what life would be like without drugs? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23762507 - 10/22/16 10:14 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
It's taken me 8 years of commitment to meditation practice, so I's no easy path. The potential rewards though.. man, you can't even begin to imagine them until you start to reap them.




alas, if only. Ya I can't commit to 8 years of anything much less meditation. I can't even commit to an exercise regime for more than a couple of months, too lazy. Ah well it won't make a difference when I die I suppose :strokebeard:


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: You ever wonder what life would be like without drugs? [Re: ohcrapitsnico] * 1
    #23762512 - 10/22/16 10:15 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ohcrapitsnico said:
Lol I've tripped with people before and heard the same fantastical hallucinations from them and I'd be pissed cause I never got that, just a mindfuck. But I've realized they were likely exaggerating which would fit my other experiences on drugs with them. :lol: I get really weak visuals on shrooms, even at high doses with ego death, very little to speak of. It's only when I combine mdma with a psychedelic or cactus that i get phenomenal vision like hallucinations, being able to immerse myself in other worlds. :thumbup:



So then, you must realise, that it affects us all differently?

I mean deep down, are we not all seeking the same thing? That being; connection.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflineEzuma
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Re: You ever wonder what life would be like without drugs? [Re: ohcrapitsnico]
    #23762516 - 10/22/16 10:16 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ohcrapitsnico said:
Lol I've tripped with people before and heard the same fantastical hallucinations from them and I'd be pissed cause I never got that, just a mindfuck. But I've realized they were likely exaggerating which would fit my other experiences on drugs with them. :lol: I get really weak visuals on shrooms, even at high doses with ego death, very little to speak of. It's only when I combine mdma with a psychedelic or cactus that i get phenomenal vision like hallucinations, being able to immerse myself in other worlds. :thumbup:




maybe we're just hard-headed reality bound types, I seriously never get really inebriated, even heavily drunk, stoned out of my mind, 4g of shrooms, three tabs of acid, and I'm still analytical and practical, anticipating threats and shit all the time god its annoying. My buddy will be lying there in lysergic bliss la-di-da-di-da while I anxiously listen for approaching feet, lest a stray hiker fall upon us and we must flee  :stonedmelt:

yeah I'm a little high strung


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: You ever wonder what life would be like without drugs? [Re: ohcrapitsnico]
    #23762517 - 10/22/16 10:17 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ohcrapitsnico said:
Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
It's taken me 8 years of commitment to meditation practice, so I's no easy path. The potential rewards though.. man, you can't even begin to imagine them until you start to reap them.



Like what rewards?



The fact that you ask that question renders you unfit for whatever answer I might give.

It's a fucking lonely path, filled with pain. When you've really faced yourself, you'll know what I'm talking about.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflineLucisM
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Re: You ever wonder what life would be like without drugs? [Re: ohcrapitsnico] * 2
    #23762521 - 10/22/16 10:18 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I think drugs allow us the ability to look at certain situations differently, from different view points, and often times these different view points allow us to see the light of the situation, to see our solution.

I see drugs as a way of enhancing life, and feel like psychs will make you age slower because they allow you to deal with internal issues which might cause you mentally destroy yourself, so I see drugs as enriching ones life.

It's only when drugs get into the addiction stage that they become a problem, but I think through proper community communication, we can prevent this, or at least lessen it.

Don't live only to get high, have meaningful experience which aren't drug related, this way you don't attach to much energy to your drugs, if you attach to much energy to your drugs, you will often times form unhealthy habits with them, which usually lead to addiction.

If I was with some friends and we saw each other ever day and I was dabbling in opiates, it would be wise of them to mention that I should be careful with how often I have been using, this is community in action.  You don't have to tell another to not use and come off as judgmental, just give them a kindly reminder of the outcome of such consistent use has.


Quote:

ohcrapitsnico said:
I get really weak visuals on shrooms, even at high doses with ego death, very little to speak of. It's only when I combine mdma with a psychedelic or cactus that i get phenomenal vision like hallucinations, being able to immerse myself in other worlds. :thumbup:





I have had mind blowing visuals from shrooms (woodlovers), like where everything I was seeing was massive intricate visual, almost overwhelming, just sit there and grin. 

Cacti visuals are my favorite though.


--------------------
©️


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OfflineEzuma
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Re: You ever wonder what life would be like without drugs? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23762527 - 10/22/16 10:20 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:

It's a fucking lonely path, filled with pain. When you've really faced yourself, you'll know what I'm talking about.




ya see, I'd rather not. I legitimately exist only for pleasure, from my perspective, so give me enough pain and I'd rather just not be.


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Invisibleohcrapitsnico
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Re: You ever wonder what life would be like without drugs? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23762535 - 10/22/16 10:22 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I think at reasonably low doses psychedelics affect people very differently, but I hypothesize that at high doses it's all the same experience, which is beautiful in itself. In my own experience, regardless of the psychedelic I get pretty much the same experience and when I read other's experiences they could very well have been my own.

I use psychedelics to learn more about myself, a great part of which I've realized is a desire for connection with others. :thumbup:


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Invisibleohcrapitsnico
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Re: You ever wonder what life would be like without drugs? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23762542 - 10/22/16 10:24 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
The fact that you ask that question renders you unfit for whatever answer I might give.

It's a fucking lonely path, filled with pain. When you've really faced yourself, you'll know what I'm talking about.



Your arrogant response aside, doesn't sound like you've gotten any rewards.


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OfflineEzuma
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Re: You ever wonder what life would be like without drugs? [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 1
    #23762553 - 10/22/16 10:27 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:

ohcrapitsnico said:
Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
It's taken me 8 years of commitment to meditation practice, so I's no easy path. The potential rewards though.. man, you can't even begin to imagine them until you start to reap them.



Like what rewards?



The fact that you ask that question renders you unfit for whatever answer I might give.

It's a fucking lonely path, filled with pain. When you've really faced yourself, you'll know what I'm talking about.




this kind of response is usually what makes me think the meditation types aren't being 100% honest in their comparisons, not saying you aren't, but I'm highly suspicious of any 'hidden knowledge' which can't be talked about until a lengthy series of prerequisite steps are met. Unless of course you just mean how awakening can't be described in words, or something to that effect


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