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Shrms
Stranger
Registered: 06/18/16
Posts: 42
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: My first panaeolus grow - failed? [Re: Panarchist]
#23767119 - 10/24/16 03:02 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Panarchist said:
yeah, the jar doesn't look too bad at 9 days but the infection must have been fairly well developed at that point and just hadn't fully revealed itself. i think the lack of gas exchange and the fact that you sterilized your substrate are your main problems at that point in the process. i notice that there was discoloration on your spawn too. that could be infection but if you did the agar work correctly that's probably just bruising from being exposed to temperatures that are lower than what the mycelium prefers. try and keep it above 70F/21C for best results and don't put it in incubator you're better off heating the room that it is in.
You are right, there was some blue discoloration in my jars but I thought it is just bruising. Temperature in my incubator was 82° at all time, but I did not open it for gas exchange that often.
Quote:
Panarchist said:
next time around, i think you would do better if you mix your spawn with your substrate and then put that in trays, monotubs will work also but it will require some dialing in to get the optimal conditions. i have been using clear pyrex baking dishes because they are rigid and you can see through them. then just put some aluminum foil over the top that you poke holes in for GE or a resealable bag with holes poked in it will work too. if you use a 1:2 ratio of spawn to substrate you should see full visible colonization in around 7 days. then just give it 3-5 days more for the substrate to consolidate so that it goes into fruiting mode. then you just gotta case it and put in your fruiting chamber
Okay convinced, next time I am going to pasteurize my substrate and mix it together with my spawn as you told me. I have read about this method from time to time, but thought it is easier to start using jars just like my cubensis growings (saw that method working well for pans in some teks).
Which type of spawn would you recommend? For all cubensis cultivation I used rye, but I heard that bird seed works better for panaeolus. Can I also use rye just as well? And what about the straw, is it necessary or can I go without?
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Panarchist
Cyanescendant



Registered: 04/02/16
Posts: 432
Loc: Copeland
Last seen: 7 months, 17 days
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Re: My first panaeolus grow - failed? [Re: Shrms]
#23767265 - 10/24/16 03:46 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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from what i have seen in other people's grows it seems like most of the grains normally used for cubensis will work fine for panaeolus species. if you are already familiar with using rye it should work just fine but it never hurts to experiment and see what else works. i have been using WBR(whole brown rice) and the pan mycelium seems to like it too. and i can't say for certain if adding straw to your grainspawn would be good or not. i was actually wondering the same thing myself. i would think that it probably wouldn't make much difference but it could be worth trying it out to get a better idea.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: My first panaeolus grow - failed? [Re: Panarchist]
#23767560 - 10/24/16 05:16 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21168958
you could use something like this with suitable panaeolus substrate. they're usually inoculated with liquid culture though. because they are spawn and substrate all in one they're hard to colonize with just spores or an agar wedge but it has been done.
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Shrms
Stranger
Registered: 06/18/16
Posts: 42
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Re: My first panaeolus grow - failed? [Re: Panarchist]
#23769634 - 10/25/16 11:04 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Panarchist said: next time around, i think you would do better if you mix your spawn with your substrate and then put that in trays, monotubs will work also but it will require some dialing in to get the optimal conditions. i have been using clear pyrex baking dishes because they are rigid and you can see through them. then just put some aluminum foil over the top that you poke holes in for GE or a resealable bag with holes poked in it will work too. if you use a 1:2 ratio of spawn to substrate you should see full visible colonization in around 7 days. then just give it 3-5 days more for the substrate to consolidate so that it goes into fruiting mode. then you just gotta case it and put in your fruiting chamber.
Is the method you described called bulking? Does anyone know a tek or tutorial where this method is described a little bit more detailed (for panaelous strains in combination with dung)? Could not find much information on that but I want to try it for the next attempt
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: My first panaeolus grow - failed? [Re: Shrms]
#23769649 - 10/25/16 11:10 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Links in my signature. The methods for pans are similar to cubensis you use use slightly different substrate.
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Panarchist
Cyanescendant



Registered: 04/02/16
Posts: 432
Loc: Copeland
Last seen: 7 months, 17 days
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Re: My first panaeolus grow - failed? [Re: Shrms]
#23771840 - 10/25/16 11:10 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shrms said:
Is the method you described called bulking? Does anyone know a tek or tutorial where this method is described a little bit more detailed (for panaelous strains in combination with dung)? Could not find much information on that but I want to try it for the next attempt 
if you're putting it in trays i don't think that would be referred to as bulking but i could be wrong. i think the term 'bulk' applies more to monotubs. and the suggestions made in my comment were based on observations from a bunch of different grows so i can't think of one that covers all those aspects completely but this recent growlog gives a good basic reference for this method:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23165991/fpart/all/vc/1
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Shrms
Stranger
Registered: 06/18/16
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Re: My first panaeolus grow - failed? [Re: Shrms]
#23793921 - 11/02/16 08:18 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Thanks so far guys 
I read a lot in the last days and I am going to try a new one from scratch as described in your links / posts.
I dumped 2 trays (there was no visible sign of contamination in the crumbled substrate) and gave 2 of them a chance for a second flush, just wanted to see whats happening.
I removed the entire casing layer of tray 1, put it into the incubator for 2 days (mycelium recovering) and cased it again. This time with a mix of coco coir / vermiculite. I wanted to see if the casing layer material has any impact on the growing. Especially because I used flower soil (first time ever) which was fertilized and that was maybe a bad idea. The tray is doing well, casing layer is colonized now and hopefully the first pins will show soon.
Tray 2 was misted very intense and put back into the fc. When I came back home from a short trip (4 days later), there was a second flush and the mushrooms looked better than they did on first flush and there were no dark spots on the caps. Some of the fruit bodies growed like a u-turn back to the ground, never saw that before... maybe a lighting problem!?
Unfortunately a contamination developed on the casing layer in the left corner of the tray:

Do I have to dump the complete tray or are the fruit bodies ready for use? When I growed first time in 2009 a lot of people recommended to dump everything because of toxins thay may be in the mushrooms of contaminated trays. Is this also the gold standard in 2016 or are there new perceptions?
Another question, do you think a fruitbody of this flush is worth to clone and start the new grow with this genetics? They are not really tall (tallest about 2 inch). I Have no experience with cloning mushrooms but it seems to be easy.
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Greg
always learning




Registered: 10/28/15
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Re: My first panaeolus grow - failed? [Re: Shrms]
#23794189 - 11/02/16 10:36 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Unless the mold is growing directly on the fruit bodies themselves, pick and eat 'em. I say go for a clone too if you don't mind sacrificing a piece of a mushroom.
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Panarchist
Cyanescendant



Registered: 04/02/16
Posts: 432
Loc: Copeland
Last seen: 7 months, 17 days
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Re: My first panaeolus grow - failed? [Re: Shrms]
#23795951 - 11/02/16 09:19 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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glad to see your making some progress. the more you learn the better your results will be. next time try to use a casing mix that is non-nutritive. a peat/verm combination seems to work best. in America there is a premade soil called jiffy mix that some use for this purpose. and give your substrate a few days to consolidate then you shouldn't have a problem with the mycelium overlaying the casing layer. and i would think that the bent growth on those fruits is a reaction to the infection rather than a lighting issue. and like Greg said, you fruits should be fine to consume as long as there is no mold growing on them but it may be advisable to make a tea out of them so that the boiling water will neutralize any unseen pathogens that may be present.
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Shrms
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Re: My first panaeolus grows [Re: Panarchist]
#23939716 - 12/19/16 04:53 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hey guys, it is time for some new projects 
Thanks for all good support so far. The Shrooms from the last casings were used in a tea as you suggested and wow... it worked damn good 
Now after a little more research I have a try at the "Bottle Tek" bodhisatta proposed earlier in this thread and spawning to trays, according this tek (Panarchist's suggestion)
I inoculated the jar 5 days ago with liquid culture of pan. tropicalis. It is a mixture of hpoo, vermiculite, BRF and gypsum with a top layer of pure dry vermiculite. I did only one jar for testing, because it was my first liquid culture syringe ever and I did not want to ruin the hole bunch.

You can see some mycelium growing in the substrate, I wonder how it is doing the next days.
Also I made two trays 5 days ago,WBS spawned to a substrate (1:2) consisting of hpoo,vermiculite,gypsum (tray 1). For tray 2 I added some straw pellets to see if it makes any difference. Both substrates were pasteurized in a bag for one hour.
Tray 1 (hpoo:vermiculite:gypsum, 10:2:0.5)
 
Tray 2 (hpoo:straw pellets:vermiculite:gypsum, 10:3:2:0.5)
 
The trays were in the incubator (80°) for 5 days now, what do you think of the progress? The surface is looking a little bit dry to me, but on the sides and bottom there are plenty of water drops, also the aluminum foil is little bit moist. Do I have to mist or just wait until full colonization and apply the casing layer?
Overall it looks good to me, I think normally trays need about 10 days for colonization, at half time 50% are colonized here.
Edited by Shrms (12/19/16 10:07 AM)
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Shrms
Stranger
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Re: My first panaeolus attempts [Re: Shrms]
#23942953 - 12/20/16 10:20 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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No opinions about this
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Panarchist
Cyanescendant



Registered: 04/02/16
Posts: 432
Loc: Copeland
Last seen: 7 months, 17 days
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Re: My first panaeolus attempts [Re: Shrms]
#23946087 - 12/21/16 01:04 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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hey, sorry about the delayed response. been too busy lately with the holidays. you seem to be on track with your methods. nothing i see personally looks like it really needs changing. that mycelium just doesn't look right though. it seems to be colonizing alright but that color is not how it should look. if it doesn't smell bad you might as well keep letting it do it's thing but be vigilant you may have some infection taking hold. if there's moisture on the foil i would think your hydration levels are alright so you shouldn't need to mist until you add the casing layer and then just enough to get it moist but not oversaturated and that should be enough to get you through a first flush. and i've seen conflicting opinions on whether it's best to case and fruit at full colonization or let it consolidate for a few days first so i can't say what works best so just be aware of your options and do what makes the most sense to you and see how it turns out.
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The Mycologist
Explorer

Registered: 05/06/16
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Re: My first panaeolus grow - failed? [Re: Greg]
#23946099 - 12/21/16 01:08 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
enlightenment said:
 maybe you can see it better now. I am pretty sure that it is mold.
ahhhhh, greg I guess you missed this
-------------------- "That you are here—that life exists, and identity; That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.” ― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass

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