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OfflineBumbaclotjohnson
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Tabernaemontana Thread
    #23755741 - 10/20/16 06:45 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

So I've been wondering lately how many Tabernaemontana growers we got in the community. I want to start a thread dedicated to: Growing techniques, Pictures, Troubleshooting, ect.. Basically anything Tabernaemontana goes! There's over 100 species in the genus Tabernaemontana so I'm certain this could be decent thread.

Here's a pic of my T. undulata, which is about a year and 3 months old.



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OfflineMyco_illogic
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Re: Tabernaemontana Thread [Re: Bumbaclotjohnson]
    #23757262 - 10/21/16 08:07 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I've been interested in growing these. Beautiful looking plant btw. Sound like they take you to deep places in your mind as well? Have you ever ingested it op?


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Re: Tabernaemontana Thread [Re: Bumbaclotjohnson]
    #23758983 - 10/21/16 07:40 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

It took me a while to realize this was voacanga. I have some Africana seeds I've been trying to germinate for a while now with no luck. Too dry, I think.


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OfflineBumbaclotjohnson
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Re: Tabernaemontana Thread [Re: saythatagain]
    #23769572 - 10/25/16 10:32 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

saythatagain said:
It took me a while to realize this was voacanga. I have some Africana seeds I've been trying to germinate for a while now with no luck. Too dry, I think.




I believe this genus is related to voacanga but they are not the same genus.


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OfflineBumbaclotjohnson
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Re: Tabernaemontana Thread [Re: Bumbaclotjohnson]
    #23769582 - 10/25/16 10:36 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Bumbaclotjohnson said:
Quote:

saythatagain said:
It took me a while to realize this was voacanga. I have some Africana seeds I've been trying to germinate for a while now with no luck. Too dry, I think.




I believe this genus is related to voacanga but they are not the same genus.




Fact check:
Two species in Tabernaemontana were previously included in the genus Voacanga.
Tabernaemontana packysiphon and T. macrocarpa.


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OfflineStupendous-Yappi
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Re: Tabernaemontana Thread [Re: Bumbaclotjohnson]
    #24990121 - 02/12/18 10:11 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

I'm trying again with these. Unfortunately my other plants died.
I'm trying a different method to sprout them this time, since they take so long. Never done it before but I used agar without supplements. I'm hoping since the agar is sterile and doesn't have much nutrition the seeds can do there month long germination without rotting or being taken over by mold.



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OfflineDark lotus
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Re: Tabernaemontana Thread [Re: Stupendous-Yappi]
    #24990271 - 02/12/18 11:35 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Lol, germinating seeds in agar.
That's such a mycologist thing to do:laugh:
Good luck.

I've been wanting seeds a while now, this thread has prompted me to start looking again.


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OfflineMarkosheehan
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Re: Tabernaemontana Thread [Re: Dark lotus]
    #24995524 - 02/15/18 02:42 AM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Are these plants or any of their relatives psychoactive ?


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Re: Tabernaemontana Thread *DELETED* [Re: Markosheehan]
    #24995900 - 02/15/18 08:06 AM (5 years, 11 months ago)

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OfflineMeanGreen
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Re: Tabernaemontana Thread [Re: JayWise]
    #24995931 - 02/15/18 08:23 AM (5 years, 11 months ago)

T. orientalis contains iboga alkaloids but by trustworthy reports it causes temporary blindness which is probably not fun and not good for you. This effect was noted both with raw plant material and with an extract.

It's also said that their effects and alkaloids can vary greatly depending on climate, time of the year and even just genetics.

T. pandacaqui leaves are said to have a very narcotic and analgesic effect, similar to Rauwolfia sp.
It doesn't contain ibogaine, and apparently all parts of the plant can be used for this effect.

I'll just copy paste this great wealth of information about pharmacology and traditional uses of Tabernaemontana divaricata in various parts of the world:

Quote:


lets put some light about this plant: (Tabernaemontana divaricata)

1.Tabernaemontana divaricata (Tagar, Uchu-sanango)

Apocynaceae. Closely related to Voacanga and Gardenia, T. divaricata is

an extremely popular horticultural flower with many names. It is likened to

the most aromatic in existence, with majestic flowers of graceful, undulate

beauty. The foliage is shiny and deep green. A well-grown speciman (sic)

will be 3'-4' tall, equally wide and completely covered with flowers.

Mentioned in the Kama Sutra as a love plant, it certainly puts out a

sensual vibration. A perfect gift for a lover. The very bitter roots & bark

are rich in medicinal alkaloids. The Tikunas in the Rio Loretyacu region

combine bark scrapings with aguardiente and give small doses to new mothers

during the eight days of confinement to ease afterbirth pain. The bark is

also scraped and soaked overnight in water to lessen stomach & rheumatic

pain and diarrhea. Successful growing requires bright light, warm

conditions and generous fertilization. Protect from wind so the flower buds

stay intact. As the plant grows, new leaves emerge in pairs facing each

other mimicking praying hands. A good reminder and another of natures (sic)

grand gifts.

2. It seems that the predominant alkaloid in this plant is coronaridine,

which is different than ibogaine in two places, and is related to ibogamine

in the same way that voacangine is related to ibogaine - in having an

easily removed methyl ester group. Since ibogamine has been found effective

in treating addiction in rats, and seems to be pharmacologically similar to

ibogaine in animals, perhaps ibogamine produced from the coronaridine in

Tagar might someday be a useful addiction treatment. Unfortunately,

coronaridine doesn't seem to resemble ibogaine pharmacologically.

3.Ethnobotany of Tabernaemontana divaricata:

Western India: The latex has the reputation of being very cooling and is

applied to wounds to prevent inflammation [16].

Southern India: The juice expressed from the plant is mixed with oil and

applied to the head in order to soothe pains in the eyes. Chewing the root

relieves tooth-ache. Decocted with oil and applied to the head it relieves

all indispositions, especially pains, of the head. Again, the root rubbed

up with water and drunk kills intestinal worms and rubbed up with lemon

juice it removes opacities from the eyes [1]. An infusion of the root is

believed to have febrifugal properties. An infusion of the bark and root is

used against dysentery [6]. The flowers are used to treat inflammation of

the cornea [16].

India: The plant is a constituent of various medicines for the treatment

of eye conditions. Applied as a face plaster, it is a remedy against

poisons. In clarified butter and boiled in water together with other

ingredients it cures coughs, asthma, catarrh, fevers, mania, ulceration,

morbid secretion of urine, leprosy, hiccough, vomiting, swellings,

suppression of urine, disorders of semen and womb. It predisposes women to

pregnancy. It destroys poisons. The plant is used in the treatment of the

spleen, piles and abdominal tumours. In a medicated oil as a clyster,

enema, liniment or in the ear, it is also administered for most of the

conditions just listed; in addition, it is given for diarrhea, heat in the

head, epilepsy and emprosthotonos. In oil together with other constituents

it relieves diseases and gives strength in a beneficial and excellent

liniment. It promotes the growth of hair, conception and ensures long life.

Given as a poultice with other ingredients, ir relieves headache. It is

also a constituent of a remedy to cure leprosy or pityriasis. It is a

constituent of an oil said to be a remedy for every disease. The drug is

administered as an errhine, draught, liniment, enema or lictus [19]. The

juice from the flowers is dropped into the eyes in cases of opthalmia; it

is supposed to be of a very cooling nature [4], but at the same time it is

said to be very toxic [21]. The aril gives a red color which is

occasionally used as a dye by the hill people. The wood is employed

medicinally as a refrigerant and also in incense and perfumery [20]. The

root has a bitter taste and is used as an emmenagogue, aphrodisiac, tonic

and purgative. It acts as a tonic for the brain, liver and spleen; it

removes bad humors and is useful in paralysis, weakness of the limbs and in

strangury; it lessens pains in the limbs and joints and cures scorpion

stings and epilepsy. Charcoal made from it is good in opthalmia and the oil

is good for epilepsy (Yunani). The root is acrid, bitter and heating,

astringent to the bowels, alexipharmic, digestible, useful in "kapha",

billiousness and diseases of the blood (Ayurveda) [71].

Pakistan: The plant is cultivated as an ornamental throughout the Punjab.

The bark, leaves and flowers are popular household remedies, the flowers

especially being valued by Yunani practitioners for their analgesic

properties [89].

Sri Lanka: The latex is said to be cooling and is applied to sore eyes.

It is also a remedy for toothache. The plant is commonly cultivated and its

uses are similar to those of T. dichotoma [37].

Burma: The root is an emmenagogue and a tonic [152]. An unspecified part

of the plant is used in making cakes of yeast for brewing rice beer [330].

Vietnam: The roots are used against jungle fever [97].

China: The juice of the leaves is antihypertensive and diuretic, and it

clears edema; it is also used for treating eye conditions, boils, ulcers

and other sores, as well as rabies, headache, fractures, etc. [343].

Malaysia: The root is applied against lumbago, urinary stones and

poisoning [2]. The leaves are pounded with sugar candy and water to give a

drink for curing coughs, and the ground roots are used to treat eye

conditions [25]. The leaves are used against convulsions. For ulceration of

the nose, the pounded roots are mixed with the roots of another

(unidentified) Tabernaemontana species, and the roots and leaves of

Sauropus albicans and the young leaves of Ficus hispida; the mixture is

then sniffed into the nostrils [52].

Indonesia: Throughout the country the plant is cultivated for its white,

sweet-scented flowers [8,51]. The leaves, bark and twigs may form the main

components of an arrow poison used on the Mentawei Islands; the roots are a

local medicine [33,39,50]. Water in which the flowers have been soaked is

sprinkled on smallpox patients [50]. The dried root is used as a powder or

as a decoction against stomach troubles [29]. The sap and flowers are said

to be poisonous [29, cf. 26].

Pharmacological studies on extracts from Tabernaemontana divaricata:

Crude extracts had anticancer activity [281]. Alkaloids from the seeds,

roots and pod depressed bone-marrow activity in rats, resulting in

temporary leukopenia [400].

pp. 133-138:

Pharmacological activities of individual Tabernaemontana alkaloids

Coronaridine

The alkaloid has been tested in the mouse, cat, dog, monkey and rat by a

variety of pharmacological procedures. It showed autonomic and CNS

activity. In mice it produced analgesia and was effective in suppressing

rage caused by foot-shock. Toxicity in the anesthetised cat appeared to be

associated with respiratory depression. Coronaridine was inactive in the 9

KB system in cell culture [150]. In a general pharmacological screening,

the compound exhibited little activity [164]. A single 30 mg/kg p.o. dose

of coronaridine prevented pregnancy in rats when given on day 1, 2, 3 or 4

after coitus. When given on day 5, 6, 7 or 8 of pregnancy, the results were

only partially successful. The substance showed estrogenic activity, and it

was this activity which appeared to be responsible for the antifertility

action. However, the alkaloid was devoid of anti-estrogenic, androgenic,

anti-androgenic, progestational, anti-progestational and uterine-stimulant

activities, although there was partial inhibition of oxytocin-induced

uterine response [356]. The alkaloid was active against the P-388 test

system in cell culture, the ED50 being 0.43 micrograms/ml [396].

Ibogaine

In cats and dogs the alkaloid has distinct central-stimulating

properties, different from those of strychnine, which can be abolished by

atropine. In mice, it has weak but definite anticonvulsant properties

[118]. Ibogaine has a transient hypotensive effect. It acts as a true

hallucinogenic agent, and it can be used as a stimulant to overcome fatigue

and sleepiness. It could perhaps be used as a substitute for cocaine [139].

In a general pharmacological screening, ibogaine induced tremors in mice

and jactatio capitis when given s.c. together with Rigidyl i.p. The LD50

i.v. in the mouse was 42 mg/kg [128,164]. When administered i.v. to

anesthetised guinea pigs, the alkaloid produced bradycardia that was

resistant to vagotomy and atropine sulfate (4 mg/kg i.m.). Blood pressure

was lowered, but there was no alteration in the ECG [221].

Ibogaline

In a general pharmacological screening, the substance exhibited strong

central-stimulating properties and when given s.c. together with Rigidyl

i.p. it produced jactatio capitis. In anesthetised cats it caused

hypotension and marked bradycardia. The LD50 i.v. in the mouse was 46 mg/kg

[164]. When injected i.v. into anesthetised guinea pigs, the effects caused

by ibogaline were similar to those brought about by ibogaine (q.v.) [221].

(-)-Ibogamine

Central-stimulating properties were observed in a general pharmacological

screening, and in mice, when administered s.c. together with Rigidyl i.p.,

the alkaloid produced jactatio capitis [164]. On i.v. injection into

anesthetised guinea pigs, the effects observed were the same as with

ibogaine (q.v.) [221]. Ibogamine was not active in the P-388 or KB test

systems in cell culture [354].

Voacangine

In a general pharmacological screening, voacangine exhibited a slight

central stimulating effect. The LD50 i.v. in the mouse was 54 mg/kg [164].

When injected i.v. in anesthetised guinea pigs it produced the same effects

as did ibogaine (q.v.) [221]. Voacangine had no effect on the heart [178].

The alkaloid was not active in the P-388 and KB test systems in cell

culture [353].





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OfflineMateo
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Re: Tabernaemontana Thread [Re: MeanGreen] * 1
    #24996173 - 02/15/18 10:36 AM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Hi

Just wanted to show my latest order.


Not Tabernaemontana but Tabernanthe iboga.


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OfflineDark lotus
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Re: Tabernaemontana Thread [Re: Mateo]
    #24997331 - 02/15/18 07:34 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Temporary blindness?
Under what conditions, dose, route of administration ect.


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OfflineMeanGreen
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Re: Tabernaemontana Thread [Re: Dark lotus]
    #24997899 - 02/16/18 01:39 AM (5 years, 11 months ago)

It's been reported from using both leaves and bark. The reports come from our Aussie friends over at SAB. Torsten confirmed those several times. Worth noting Ibogaine itself can cause sight impairment.

Quote:

Gomaos tried about 60g of the leaves and claimed mild effects and "liver pain". Another report I have confirmed through Torsten produced massive iboga-like trip with blindness for almost 2 days. (Blindness is common with these alkaloids, so nothing really surprising there).




Quote:

the same side effect was noticed from an alkaloid extract, so yes, this is an alkaloid. The only way to separate it from the ibogaine will probably be chromatography.




Quote:

I found low doses of A/B quite pleasant, but don't know about high doses.
High doses of 'brew' can cause temporary blindness and other physical nasties.




Quote:

blindness was most marked in the firstcase reported. poeple have been more careful since, but two other experimenters have reached levels where sight was moderately impaired before reaching meaningful doses of ibogaine effect.
sight returns about the same timeframe that effects wear off.




Quote:

6 fresh leaves brewed in a tea pot with some gingko or vit c works to a noticable effect.

this is as high as i've gone dose wise ,watch out for blurry vision and peppery throat if attempting to go higher....

synergises well with other things to provide great pain relief and some euphoria.

star jasmine bark and a pinch of brug is very nice under the night sky




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Edited by MeanGreen (02/16/18 01:43 AM)


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OfflineMateo
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Re: Tabernaemontana Thread [Re: MeanGreen]
    #24998688 - 02/16/18 12:15 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Have you seen the youtube video from psychedsubstance when one guy takes a small dose iboga?
He throws up a lot.


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OfflineMeanGreen
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Re: Tabernaemontana Thread [Re: Mateo]
    #24998782 - 02/16/18 01:04 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah I've seen it, this guy (yourmatetom) went on an existential crisis after this experience and said he might not ever touch any psychedelics again.
Iboga is not to be taken lightly. The side effects are pretty dangerous I don't think it's responsible to take it in the settings he took it in (at a friend's house, for making a youtube video...).


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OfflineMateo
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Re: Tabernaemontana Thread [Re: MeanGreen]
    #24998859 - 02/16/18 01:58 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

You are right.
But if in a situation with heavy heroin or crack addiction that will lead to really bad things, it can be an option.
Quite strange it can remove these addictions.
I think there should be a doctor present as in these Ibogaine treatment clinics.


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OfflineMeanGreen
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Re: Tabernaemontana Thread [Re: Mateo]
    #24999067 - 02/16/18 03:30 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

There are indeed doctors present in the Iboga clinics, and the patients have to be checked before to make sure they do not have any heart condition or anything contraindicated.

I have considered making that journey in one of the clinics in the Netherlands - to get rid of an almost decade long addiction to opiates, split between heroin, methadone, and now kratom - but never had the balls to go.


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OfflineMateo
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Re: Tabernaemontana Thread [Re: MeanGreen]
    #24999113 - 02/16/18 03:57 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

If i had the possibility, i do this as well.
Have taken Methadone over 20 years now.
Would be so nice to get rid of that shit.
But there is no Iboga clinics here unfortunatley.
If there were, i would be on my way over there right now.


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OfflineMeanGreen
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Re: Tabernaemontana Thread [Re: Mateo]
    #25000761 - 02/17/18 08:48 AM (5 years, 11 months ago)

I feel you Mateo, I know the struggle. What is your current dosage of methadone?
I managed to taper down from 80mg down to 0 in about 4 years, and stayed clean for about a year until I discovered kratom.
I was starting to fall into other addictions like cocaine, and abused codeine a few times in between  though, so I accept kratom as the lesser evil.

As far as I know you can find Iboga clinics in Spain, Portugal, UK and Netherlands. Could be worth looking into it.


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OfflineMateo
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Re: Tabernaemontana Thread [Re: MeanGreen]
    #25000886 - 02/17/18 09:44 AM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Edit..
Too much info on me.

Ibogaine might be my way to freedom, we will see.


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Edited by Mateo (06/07/18 12:11 PM)


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