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Bumbaclotjohnson
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Tabernaemontana Thread
#23755741 - 10/20/16 06:45 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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So I've been wondering lately how many Tabernaemontana growers we got in the community. I want to start a thread dedicated to: Growing techniques, Pictures, Troubleshooting, ect.. Basically anything Tabernaemontana goes! There's over 100 species in the genus Tabernaemontana so I'm certain this could be decent thread.
Here's a pic of my T. undulata, which is about a year and 3 months old.
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Myco_illogic
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I've been interested in growing these. Beautiful looking plant btw. Sound like they take you to deep places in your mind as well? Have you ever ingested it op?
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saythatagain



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It took me a while to realize this was voacanga. I have some Africana seeds I've been trying to germinate for a while now with no luck. Too dry, I think.
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Bumbaclotjohnson
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Quote:
saythatagain said: It took me a while to realize this was voacanga. I have some Africana seeds I've been trying to germinate for a while now with no luck. Too dry, I think.
I believe this genus is related to voacanga but they are not the same genus.
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Bumbaclotjohnson
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Quote:
Bumbaclotjohnson said:
Quote:
saythatagain said: It took me a while to realize this was voacanga. I have some Africana seeds I've been trying to germinate for a while now with no luck. Too dry, I think.
I believe this genus is related to voacanga but they are not the same genus.
Fact check: Two species in Tabernaemontana were previously included in the genus Voacanga. Tabernaemontana packysiphon and T. macrocarpa.
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Stupendous-Yappi
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I'm trying again with these. Unfortunately my other plants died. I'm trying a different method to sprout them this time, since they take so long. Never done it before but I used agar without supplements. I'm hoping since the agar is sterile and doesn't have much nutrition the seeds can do there month long germination without rotting or being taken over by mold.
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Dark lotus
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Lol, germinating seeds in agar. That's such a mycologist thing to do Good luck.
I've been wanting seeds a while now, this thread has prompted me to start looking again.
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Markosheehan
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Re: Tabernaemontana Thread [Re: Dark lotus]
#24995524 - 02/15/18 02:42 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Are these plants or any of their relatives psychoactive ?
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JayWise

Registered: 11/05/17
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Re: Tabernaemontana Thread *DELETED* [Re: Markosheehan]
#24995900 - 02/15/18 08:06 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Post deleted by JayWise
Reason for deletion: .
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MeanGreen
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Re: Tabernaemontana Thread [Re: JayWise]
#24995931 - 02/15/18 08:23 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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T. orientalis contains iboga alkaloids but by trustworthy reports it causes temporary blindness which is probably not fun and not good for you. This effect was noted both with raw plant material and with an extract.
It's also said that their effects and alkaloids can vary greatly depending on climate, time of the year and even just genetics.
T. pandacaqui leaves are said to have a very narcotic and analgesic effect, similar to Rauwolfia sp. It doesn't contain ibogaine, and apparently all parts of the plant can be used for this effect.
I'll just copy paste this great wealth of information about pharmacology and traditional uses of Tabernaemontana divaricata in various parts of the world:
Quote:
lets put some light about this plant: (Tabernaemontana divaricata)
1.Tabernaemontana divaricata (Tagar, Uchu-sanango)
Apocynaceae. Closely related to Voacanga and Gardenia, T. divaricata is
an extremely popular horticultural flower with many names. It is likened to
the most aromatic in existence, with majestic flowers of graceful, undulate
beauty. The foliage is shiny and deep green. A well-grown speciman (sic)
will be 3'-4' tall, equally wide and completely covered with flowers.
Mentioned in the Kama Sutra as a love plant, it certainly puts out a
sensual vibration. A perfect gift for a lover. The very bitter roots & bark
are rich in medicinal alkaloids. The Tikunas in the Rio Loretyacu region
combine bark scrapings with aguardiente and give small doses to new mothers
during the eight days of confinement to ease afterbirth pain. The bark is
also scraped and soaked overnight in water to lessen stomach & rheumatic
pain and diarrhea. Successful growing requires bright light, warm
conditions and generous fertilization. Protect from wind so the flower buds
stay intact. As the plant grows, new leaves emerge in pairs facing each
other mimicking praying hands. A good reminder and another of natures (sic)
grand gifts.
2. It seems that the predominant alkaloid in this plant is coronaridine,
which is different than ibogaine in two places, and is related to ibogamine
in the same way that voacangine is related to ibogaine - in having an
easily removed methyl ester group. Since ibogamine has been found effective
in treating addiction in rats, and seems to be pharmacologically similar to
ibogaine in animals, perhaps ibogamine produced from the coronaridine in
Tagar might someday be a useful addiction treatment. Unfortunately,
coronaridine doesn't seem to resemble ibogaine pharmacologically.
3.Ethnobotany of Tabernaemontana divaricata:
Western India: The latex has the reputation of being very cooling and is
applied to wounds to prevent inflammation [16].
Southern India: The juice expressed from the plant is mixed with oil and
applied to the head in order to soothe pains in the eyes. Chewing the root
relieves tooth-ache. Decocted with oil and applied to the head it relieves
all indispositions, especially pains, of the head. Again, the root rubbed
up with water and drunk kills intestinal worms and rubbed up with lemon
juice it removes opacities from the eyes [1]. An infusion of the root is
believed to have febrifugal properties. An infusion of the bark and root is
used against dysentery [6]. The flowers are used to treat inflammation of
the cornea [16].
India: The plant is a constituent of various medicines for the treatment
of eye conditions. Applied as a face plaster, it is a remedy against
poisons. In clarified butter and boiled in water together with other
ingredients it cures coughs, asthma, catarrh, fevers, mania, ulceration,
morbid secretion of urine, leprosy, hiccough, vomiting, swellings,
suppression of urine, disorders of semen and womb. It predisposes women to
pregnancy. It destroys poisons. The plant is used in the treatment of the
spleen, piles and abdominal tumours. In a medicated oil as a clyster,
enema, liniment or in the ear, it is also administered for most of the
conditions just listed; in addition, it is given for diarrhea, heat in the
head, epilepsy and emprosthotonos. In oil together with other constituents
it relieves diseases and gives strength in a beneficial and excellent
liniment. It promotes the growth of hair, conception and ensures long life.
Given as a poultice with other ingredients, ir relieves headache. It is
also a constituent of a remedy to cure leprosy or pityriasis. It is a
constituent of an oil said to be a remedy for every disease. The drug is
administered as an errhine, draught, liniment, enema or lictus [19]. The
juice from the flowers is dropped into the eyes in cases of opthalmia; it
is supposed to be of a very cooling nature [4], but at the same time it is
said to be very toxic [21]. The aril gives a red color which is
occasionally used as a dye by the hill people. The wood is employed
medicinally as a refrigerant and also in incense and perfumery [20]. The
root has a bitter taste and is used as an emmenagogue, aphrodisiac, tonic
and purgative. It acts as a tonic for the brain, liver and spleen; it
removes bad humors and is useful in paralysis, weakness of the limbs and in
strangury; it lessens pains in the limbs and joints and cures scorpion
stings and epilepsy. Charcoal made from it is good in opthalmia and the oil
is good for epilepsy (Yunani). The root is acrid, bitter and heating,
astringent to the bowels, alexipharmic, digestible, useful in "kapha",
billiousness and diseases of the blood (Ayurveda) [71].
Pakistan: The plant is cultivated as an ornamental throughout the Punjab.
The bark, leaves and flowers are popular household remedies, the flowers
especially being valued by Yunani practitioners for their analgesic
properties [89].
Sri Lanka: The latex is said to be cooling and is applied to sore eyes.
It is also a remedy for toothache. The plant is commonly cultivated and its
uses are similar to those of T. dichotoma [37].
Burma: The root is an emmenagogue and a tonic [152]. An unspecified part
of the plant is used in making cakes of yeast for brewing rice beer [330].
Vietnam: The roots are used against jungle fever [97].
China: The juice of the leaves is antihypertensive and diuretic, and it
clears edema; it is also used for treating eye conditions, boils, ulcers
and other sores, as well as rabies, headache, fractures, etc. [343].
Malaysia: The root is applied against lumbago, urinary stones and
poisoning [2]. The leaves are pounded with sugar candy and water to give a
drink for curing coughs, and the ground roots are used to treat eye
conditions [25]. The leaves are used against convulsions. For ulceration of
the nose, the pounded roots are mixed with the roots of another
(unidentified) Tabernaemontana species, and the roots and leaves of
Sauropus albicans and the young leaves of Ficus hispida; the mixture is
then sniffed into the nostrils [52].
Indonesia: Throughout the country the plant is cultivated for its white,
sweet-scented flowers [8,51]. The leaves, bark and twigs may form the main
components of an arrow poison used on the Mentawei Islands; the roots are a
local medicine [33,39,50]. Water in which the flowers have been soaked is
sprinkled on smallpox patients [50]. The dried root is used as a powder or
as a decoction against stomach troubles [29]. The sap and flowers are said
to be poisonous [29, cf. 26].
Pharmacological studies on extracts from Tabernaemontana divaricata:
Crude extracts had anticancer activity [281]. Alkaloids from the seeds,
roots and pod depressed bone-marrow activity in rats, resulting in
temporary leukopenia [400].
pp. 133-138:
Pharmacological activities of individual Tabernaemontana alkaloids
Coronaridine
The alkaloid has been tested in the mouse, cat, dog, monkey and rat by a
variety of pharmacological procedures. It showed autonomic and CNS
activity. In mice it produced analgesia and was effective in suppressing
rage caused by foot-shock. Toxicity in the anesthetised cat appeared to be
associated with respiratory depression. Coronaridine was inactive in the 9
KB system in cell culture [150]. In a general pharmacological screening,
the compound exhibited little activity [164]. A single 30 mg/kg p.o. dose
of coronaridine prevented pregnancy in rats when given on day 1, 2, 3 or 4
after coitus. When given on day 5, 6, 7 or 8 of pregnancy, the results were
only partially successful. The substance showed estrogenic activity, and it
was this activity which appeared to be responsible for the antifertility
action. However, the alkaloid was devoid of anti-estrogenic, androgenic,
anti-androgenic, progestational, anti-progestational and uterine-stimulant
activities, although there was partial inhibition of oxytocin-induced
uterine response [356]. The alkaloid was active against the P-388 test
system in cell culture, the ED50 being 0.43 micrograms/ml [396].
Ibogaine
In cats and dogs the alkaloid has distinct central-stimulating
properties, different from those of strychnine, which can be abolished by
atropine. In mice, it has weak but definite anticonvulsant properties
[118]. Ibogaine has a transient hypotensive effect. It acts as a true
hallucinogenic agent, and it can be used as a stimulant to overcome fatigue
and sleepiness. It could perhaps be used as a substitute for cocaine [139].
In a general pharmacological screening, ibogaine induced tremors in mice
and jactatio capitis when given s.c. together with Rigidyl i.p. The LD50
i.v. in the mouse was 42 mg/kg [128,164]. When administered i.v. to
anesthetised guinea pigs, the alkaloid produced bradycardia that was
resistant to vagotomy and atropine sulfate (4 mg/kg i.m.). Blood pressure
was lowered, but there was no alteration in the ECG [221].
Ibogaline
In a general pharmacological screening, the substance exhibited strong
central-stimulating properties and when given s.c. together with Rigidyl
i.p. it produced jactatio capitis. In anesthetised cats it caused
hypotension and marked bradycardia. The LD50 i.v. in the mouse was 46 mg/kg
[164]. When injected i.v. into anesthetised guinea pigs, the effects caused
by ibogaline were similar to those brought about by ibogaine (q.v.) [221].
(-)-Ibogamine
Central-stimulating properties were observed in a general pharmacological
screening, and in mice, when administered s.c. together with Rigidyl i.p.,
the alkaloid produced jactatio capitis [164]. On i.v. injection into
anesthetised guinea pigs, the effects observed were the same as with
ibogaine (q.v.) [221]. Ibogamine was not active in the P-388 or KB test
systems in cell culture [354].
Voacangine
In a general pharmacological screening, voacangine exhibited a slight
central stimulating effect. The LD50 i.v. in the mouse was 54 mg/kg [164].
When injected i.v. in anesthetised guinea pigs it produced the same effects
as did ibogaine (q.v.) [221]. Voacangine had no effect on the heart [178].
The alkaloid was not active in the P-388 and KB test systems in cell
culture [353].
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Mateo
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Re: Tabernaemontana Thread [Re: MeanGreen] 1
#24996173 - 02/15/18 10:36 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Hi
Just wanted to show my latest order.

Not Tabernaemontana but Tabernanthe iboga.
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Dark lotus
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Re: Tabernaemontana Thread [Re: Mateo]
#24997331 - 02/15/18 07:34 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Temporary blindness? Under what conditions, dose, route of administration ect.
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MeanGreen
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Re: Tabernaemontana Thread [Re: Dark lotus]
#24997899 - 02/16/18 01:39 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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It's been reported from using both leaves and bark. The reports come from our Aussie friends over at SAB. Torsten confirmed those several times. Worth noting Ibogaine itself can cause sight impairment.
Quote:
Gomaos tried about 60g of the leaves and claimed mild effects and "liver pain". Another report I have confirmed through Torsten produced massive iboga-like trip with blindness for almost 2 days. (Blindness is common with these alkaloids, so nothing really surprising there).
Quote:
the same side effect was noticed from an alkaloid extract, so yes, this is an alkaloid. The only way to separate it from the ibogaine will probably be chromatography.
Quote:
I found low doses of A/B quite pleasant, but don't know about high doses. High doses of 'brew' can cause temporary blindness and other physical nasties.
Quote:
blindness was most marked in the firstcase reported. poeple have been more careful since, but two other experimenters have reached levels where sight was moderately impaired before reaching meaningful doses of ibogaine effect. sight returns about the same timeframe that effects wear off.
Quote:
6 fresh leaves brewed in a tea pot with some gingko or vit c works to a noticable effect.
this is as high as i've gone dose wise ,watch out for blurry vision and peppery throat if attempting to go higher....
synergises well with other things to provide great pain relief and some euphoria.
star jasmine bark and a pinch of brug is very nice under the night sky
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Edited by MeanGreen (02/16/18 01:43 AM)
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Mateo
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Re: Tabernaemontana Thread [Re: MeanGreen]
#24998688 - 02/16/18 12:15 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Have you seen the youtube video from psychedsubstance when one guy takes a small dose iboga? He throws up a lot.
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MeanGreen
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Re: Tabernaemontana Thread [Re: Mateo]
#24998782 - 02/16/18 01:04 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yeah I've seen it, this guy (yourmatetom) went on an existential crisis after this experience and said he might not ever touch any psychedelics again. Iboga is not to be taken lightly. The side effects are pretty dangerous I don't think it's responsible to take it in the settings he took it in (at a friend's house, for making a youtube video...).
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Mateo
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Re: Tabernaemontana Thread [Re: MeanGreen]
#24998859 - 02/16/18 01:58 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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You are right. But if in a situation with heavy heroin or crack addiction that will lead to really bad things, it can be an option. Quite strange it can remove these addictions. I think there should be a doctor present as in these Ibogaine treatment clinics.
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MeanGreen
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Re: Tabernaemontana Thread [Re: Mateo]
#24999067 - 02/16/18 03:30 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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There are indeed doctors present in the Iboga clinics, and the patients have to be checked before to make sure they do not have any heart condition or anything contraindicated.
I have considered making that journey in one of the clinics in the Netherlands - to get rid of an almost decade long addiction to opiates, split between heroin, methadone, and now kratom - but never had the balls to go.
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Re: Tabernaemontana Thread [Re: MeanGreen]
#24999113 - 02/16/18 03:57 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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If i had the possibility, i do this as well. Have taken Methadone over 20 years now. Would be so nice to get rid of that shit. But there is no Iboga clinics here unfortunatley. If there were, i would be on my way over there right now.
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MeanGreen
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Re: Tabernaemontana Thread [Re: Mateo]
#25000761 - 02/17/18 08:48 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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I feel you Mateo, I know the struggle. What is your current dosage of methadone? I managed to taper down from 80mg down to 0 in about 4 years, and stayed clean for about a year until I discovered kratom. I was starting to fall into other addictions like cocaine, and abused codeine a few times in between though, so I accept kratom as the lesser evil.
As far as I know you can find Iboga clinics in Spain, Portugal, UK and Netherlands. Could be worth looking into it.
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Re: Tabernaemontana Thread [Re: MeanGreen]
#25000886 - 02/17/18 09:44 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Edit.. Too much info on me.
Ibogaine might be my way to freedom, we will see.
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Edited by Mateo (06/07/18 12:11 PM)
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Stupendous-Yappi
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Update:  Just one of the 25 seeds has now finally sprouted. I don't think I cleaned the seeds good enough because some fungus and mold still started growing on them eventually. I also think the agar may have not been 'watery' enough.
Quote:
Stupendous-Yappi said: I'm trying again with these. Unfortunately my other plants died. I'm trying a different method to sprout them this time, since they take so long. Never done it before but I used agar without supplements. I'm hoping since the agar is sterile and doesn't have much nutrition the seeds can do there month long germination without rotting or being taken over by mold.
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Bumbaclotjohnson
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Your germination rate is the same as mine I had 2 of 50 sprout. Could just be how this plant works.
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Re: Tabernaemontana Thread [Re: Mateo]
#25254089 - 06/07/18 12:03 PM (5 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mateo said: Hi
Just wanted to show my latest order.

Not Tabernaemontana but Tabernanthe iboga.
3 months after sowing the Iboga seeds i have this little seedling:

After beeing in the moist gravel/perlite mix for like 3 months i didnt think anything would come up. But to my suprise this seedling popped up about 10 days ago. Maybe more will follow. I must repot it but im unsure if i should wait or do it now. There is only gravel and perlite in the pot so nothing good to grow in.
And i today got 500 Voacanga africana seeds i had ordered. I hope they are good and germinates well.
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Stupendous-Yappi
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Quote:
Bumbaclotjohnson said: Your germination rate is the same as mine I had 2 of 50 sprout. Could just be how this plant works.
That could be true, I had a much better germination rate the previous time I tried though.
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Stupendous-Yappi
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Quote:
I must repot it but im unsure if i should wait or do it now. There is only gravel and perlite in the pot so nothing good to grow in.
In my limited experience, Tabernaemontana roots don't like to be disturbed so if its the same with T. iboga I would be careful either way when repotting.
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Mateo
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Oh, that puts me in a troublesome position. I must repot it, either now or later. I wonder if it´s better to do it now or wait some?
Poppys are also known to hate repotting and disturbing of the roots but they can be repotted without problems when they are small. Maybe Ibogas are similar.
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Stupendous-Yappi
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Re: Tabernaemontana Thread [Re: Mateo] 1
#25271198 - 06/15/18 11:13 PM (5 years, 7 months ago) |
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I gave up hope on the one that sprouted because it didn't show any signs of growth. A few weeks later it's finally growing.
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Mateo
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Congratulations. I hope it will grow well for you amd make it to a large plant.
I have transplanted my iboga seedling. It looked quite sad for a while but i think it will make it. Looks better now.

I read they should not be given any ferts until they have at least 5 pairs of leafs. I put it in a mix of gravel, perlite and little soil. When little bigger i will give it a soilmix with higher content of real soil and some ferts.
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Mateo
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Re: Tabernaemontana Thread [Re: Mateo] 1
#25300494 - 06/30/18 09:49 AM (5 years, 6 months ago) |
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That transplant was hard on the Iboga seedling. Mainly the biggest leafpair got affected from the dryer conditions during transplant. I got exactly the same leaf reaction when i transplanted Mitragyna speciosa Riafat that were used to high humidity. This is how the little Iboga seedling looks now

It have now adjusted to the new pot and i have put a cut coce bottle on top as a humidity dome. The new leafpair seems look normal so i think it will survive this. Since it´s the only Iboga i have it simply can´t die. Suggestions welcome.
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Stupendous-Yappi
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Re: Tabernaemontana Thread [Re: Mateo] 1
#25334334 - 07/18/18 07:45 PM (5 years, 6 months ago) |
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Got some more to sprout in peat pots. Even before the seedling breaks the soil there were small roots growing out of the peat pot. I'm guessing this is one reason they don't like to be transplanted, since the roots well have extended pretty far even before you see it's sprouted.
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turtle_hermit
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I know this is an old thread, but wondering if anyone still has these plants growing. Been looking for Tabernaemontana undulata seeds or plants, but difficult to hunt down. Does anyone have information on seed sources and viability?
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citrowong
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Hey I don't know if anyone will see it but I've been experimenting with using Tabernaemontana catharinensis dried flowers recently, I have a bunch of trees next to my house.
I saw in some articles from Brazil (my country) that catharinensis had ibogaine and related chemicals in a extraction from the roots+stems+leaves.
So I first tried chugging down 500mg, it definitely give effects with this dosage, nothing hallucinatory with this amount but it shows that it has some mind-altering chemicals concentrated in the flowers.
Another day I smoked just a lil' bit of dried flowers and damn, it has a quick effect, and I just puffed ONE TIME. Got in a different mindset and slowed me down a bunch. When I laid down to sleep some hours later I was having the MOST REALIST awaken-dream visions, like it was 100% real, I got a little bit scared! Great oneireic as it seems... But I advice caution, it is so fucking strong-per-mg that if you overdose I can see bad stuff happening.
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you are a producer of atheistic catharsis for well-trained subconscious
Edited by citrowong (11/13/22 03:26 PM)
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Bardy



Registered: 04/02/14
Posts: 2,188
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Re: Tabernaemontana Thread [Re: citrowong]
#28049615 - 11/13/22 07:55 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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Good to know.. I wonder how it compares to other plants in the genus in alkaloid content.
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turtle_hermit
Psychedelic Ranger



Registered: 06/03/10
Posts: 1,626
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Re: Tabernaemontana Thread [Re: Bardy]
#28050420 - 11/14/22 10:29 AM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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citrowong, this is very interesting to hear and thank you very much for sharing with us. Any chance you can provide photos of trees/flowers/seeds? Did you make an extraction?
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citrowong
beggar who sunbathes



Registered: 10/23/22
Posts: 2
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Quote:
turtle_hermit said: citrowong, this is very interesting to hear and thank you very much for sharing with us. Any chance you can provide photos of trees/flowers/seeds? Did you make an extraction?
Hey!
Next time that I go to my friends house and we go collect some magic shrooms I take some pictures, there is a cluster of around 5 trees in the hill that we hunt. There is some around my house but they're hidden within other trees, so it won't be so clear.
So, last time we went to hunt in this hill (2 months ago) we found no good shrooms but for my surprise I found this cluster of T. Catharinensis, most of the flowers were at the top so I couldn't reach. I gattered fallen flowers at the ground. After returning home I put them at the fan to dry. And no, I didn't make any extract. I ate it 3 times (500mg 1st time, 250mg in the last two) and also smoked it (maybe less than 10mg of dried flower), only a PETAL of a little flower got me high, I need to experiment with more quantity to see where it leads me. When I've got the time to experiment I will report here. I said this realistic-dream experience to my friend and he wants to try to take too because he is really deep into dream exploration. I will actually give some dried flowers for him tomorrow. When he accumulates some experiences I'll come back to say too.
But I'm not so into getting high and into dissociatives (it seems that the ibogaine related stuff is), so you guys should test with it.
A big bad side of both eating and smoking was the shortness of breathe. But I've read that iboga does that too, but I don't know how much of it is because of the ibogaine-related alkaloids or another one which worsens the breathing condition. In the doses I took it was nothing to worry about, but I imagine at higher doses it can make you anxious and maybe lead to some complications.
Just for saying: I couldn't find any report of "smoking iboga" because the search always interpret using iboga to relieve smoking addiction. I guess if it was smoked there would be some history of ancestral use of this method. I suppose if there is no report then there must be a reason for it, so I am taking extra caution on these explorations. I encourage you guys to smoke dried Tabernaemontana flowers carefully. It seems that most (if not all) Tabernaemontana especies have ibogaine-related compounds.
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you are a producer of atheistic catharsis for well-trained subconscious
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