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Invisibleglobos
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2nd try clone -> agar -> grain -> bulk (beginner's growlog with help)
    #23755593 - 10/20/16 05:43 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Hello, I've had my first try at a real grow and documented it in this post: Newbie wants to do clone -> agar -> LC -> fruiting [Beginner's growlog with advice from experts], where I received unvaluable help from a few knowledgeable shroomerites.

I hope I can do better this time, so I'm trying again. I had one agar plate still alive, so I spawned it to more plates, and used them to inoculate a few WBS jars (mostly millet, with other grasses).

Inoculation day was Oct 06 - exactly 2 weeks ago. I am worrying because some jars are running fast (actually looking 100% colonized), while others still show little to no sign of life. Of the colonized jars, at least one looks like it contains some contaminated spots. What do you suggest I do?

7 small jars


3 larger jars


3 larger jars - detail



(Edit - for some reason, it looks as if I've deleted the images, which I haven't. I hope at least the thumbnails are visible.)


Edited by globos (11/15/16 12:06 PM)


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Re: 2nd try clone -> agar -> grain -> bulk [Re: globos]
    #23756801 - 10/21/16 02:18 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Could just be a slow colonizer or contam'd, use your judgement and do the proper procedures once a verdict is concluded.

ND stay positive and patient itll work out,

How many wedges per jar?


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Invisibleglobos
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Re: 2nd try clone -> agar -> grain -> bulk [Re: spore-ty]
    #23756883 - 10/21/16 03:21 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Hello spore-ty, thanks for your reply!

I'd spawned my mycelium to 5 Pastywhyte-style agar plates like these. When the plates were fully colonized, I split them between my jars dissolving them in boiled water and injecting it into the jars. The same method got me good colonization on my first try.

I would proceed and spawn to bulk now, but I'm afraid: if any of the 3 colonized small jars (total: 1.5 quarts) is contaminated, the clean material could be much too little to spawn.


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Offlineenlightenment
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Re: 2nd try clone -> agar -> grain -> bulk [Re: globos]
    #23756907 - 10/21/16 03:38 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Did you let the boiled water cool to room temp before using it to dissolve the colonized agar?


Edited by enlightenment (10/21/16 03:42 AM)


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Invisibleglobos
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Re: 2nd try clone -> agar -> grain -> bulk [Re: enlightenment]
    #23756976 - 10/21/16 04:44 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

About room temp. Body temp at most.


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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: 2nd try clone -> agar -> grain -> bulk [Re: globos]
    #23756986 - 10/21/16 04:53 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

if ur positive those were inoculated 2 weeks ago, and u haven't shaken recently, then some of those look shady.


in the second two pictures, u can see something is trying to happen.  they look kinda wet with that weird grey matter in-between.  no-good.

if u look closely at those jars, the bottom look pretty puddled up. so I'm not sure if ur grains just got too much water (from ur liquid inoculation) and its preventing growth (which can still be clean, just stalled), or if u have no gas exchange holes, or if its just bacterial.

since its been two weeks, I'm thinking its just a loss.

the white 3 jars on top look good enough to spawn.  are the lids different in those or maybe those got much less liquid?


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InvisibleComebackKid
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Re: 2nd try clone -> agar -> grain -> bulk [Re: blindingleaf]
    #23757067 - 10/21/16 06:01 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Blindingleaf after pretty much hit the nail on the head I think. Those jars look drenched with water...
What kind of methods are you using? What's this about dissolving your agar?

Why not just drop the colonized agar or pieces of colonized agar into your jars as is? I feel like you're making way to much work for yourself and adding more contamination vectors to your grow.

One last thing. It may be helpful to fill your jars a little less full :2cents:


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Invisibleglobos
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Re: 2nd try clone -> agar -> grain -> bulk [Re: ComebackKid]
    #23758090 - 10/21/16 01:30 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks for the useful advice, blindingleaf and ComebackKid!

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
if ur positive those were inoculated 2 weeks ago, and u haven't shaken recently, then some of those look shady.



I agree the matter is shady - but I don't think I got too much liquid inside while inoculating. Rather, it might be that the grains were too wet to begin with.

Quote:

since its been two weeks, I'm thinking its just a loss.
[snip]
the white 3 jars on top look good enough to spawn.  are the lids different in those or maybe those got much less liquid?



Hm, I think I'm going to write this off as a loss, especially after reading the consensus opinion of you both. So I will try to inoculate the 3 good-looking ones. What if one of them is partly contaminated? Get rid of the whole jar, eh?

Quote:

ComebackKid said:Blindingleaf after pretty much hit the nail on the head I think. Those jars look drenched with water...



yeah, consensus :frown:

Quote:

What kind of methods are you using? What's this about dissolving your agar?

Why not just drop the colonized agar or pieces of colonized agar into your jars as is? I feel like you're making way to much work for yourself and adding more contamination vectors to your grow.



I use water so I can inoculate with a syringe without opening the jars once they're sterilized. I read it's also supposed to quicken up colonization. Maybe I should just drop a wedge in the jar, right. That's what I'll do next time. I have a backup mycelium plate, and I just pressure cooked a few more virgin ones, so if all goes south I can transfer the mycelium from the backup and start over with fresh jars.

Quote:

One last thing. It may be helpful to fill your jars a little less full :2cents:



Absolutely. When preparing the jars, I miscalculated the resulting WBS volume because I didn't take into account that the grains would swell after the long dip. Next time I will scale down some 20-30%.

As  for now, I think I'll just spawn the jars that look ready, waiting a little longer (how long, reasonably?) for the others before calling them off.

What do you think would be better, given the current situation?

(a) Just spawn the jars that smell good, keeping a 1:1 grain:bulk ratio.

(b) Just spawn the jars that smell good, diluting the grain up to 1:5-1:6 so I can fill the monotub anyway.

(c) ...?

Thanks for your help! :tongue2:


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InvisibleComebackKid
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Re: 2nd try clone -> agar -> grain -> bulk [Re: globos]
    #23758483 - 10/21/16 04:24 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Spawn the good stuff you have to bulk 1:2 spawn bulk ratio. You can even have slightly more bulk than that with no issues.

For the rset.  Using a sab obviously. I would drop agar wedges into your jars by opening the lid and plopping 4 or 5 wedges in each jar.


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:amanita2: Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care :sporedrop:

Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind.
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Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself


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Invisibleglobos
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Re: 2nd try clone -> agar -> grain -> bulk [Re: ComebackKid]
    #23765042 - 10/23/16 06:55 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ComebackKid said:
Spawn the good stuff you have to bulk 1:2 spawn bulk ratio. You can even have slightly more bulk than that with no issues.




So I did, thanks! I more or less followed SpitBallJedi's CVG tek, but rather than going monotub, I chose to keep each jar separate to minimize cross-contamination.

I'm reusing the containers I got with ready made "XL" growboxes. When spawning, we had a little bulk substrate left, so we made an extra "bastard" box taking a little mix from each of the other three and watering it down, so to say, with the remaining CVG.

DAY 0
All four: 3 legit jars and 1 watered down "bastard".


Casing or not? Well - two are cased, two uncased. Experimenting my way up.


I'm planning to keep the boxes closed until re-colonized. Estimated time: 2 weeks. Then I'll open the boxes and put them in their original clear plastic bags - the ones you close with paper clips. They've got micropore strips for breathing. Sounds fine?

Quote:

For the rset.  Using a sab obviously. I would drop agar wedges into your jars by opening the lid and plopping 4 or 5 wedges in each jar.



I also transfered the backup mother plate into several fresh ones, so next time I can inoculate my WBS jars by simply dropping dry wedges as advised. It will take at least a couple of weeks, I reckon. The new plates live in a plastic bag in a comfy room now, but by moving them to the fridge, I suppose I can stop them for a month or two. Reasonable?


Edited by globos (10/24/16 07:01 AM)


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InvisibleComebackKid
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Re: 2nd try clone -> agar -> grain -> bulk [Re: globos]
    #23765350 - 10/23/16 08:54 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Holy shit!
You bought 4 grow kits?

I think the best course of action would be to put those trays inside either a monotub or big SGFC.
I don't trust the whole choke bag method


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:amanita2: Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care :sporedrop:

Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind.
Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind,
is peering in from outside the universe.

Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself


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Invisibleglobos
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Re: 2nd try clone -> agar -> grain -> bulk [Re: ComebackKid]
    #23766093 - 10/24/16 07:25 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ComebackKid said:
Holy shit!
You bought 4 grow kits?



Over several years, I bought quite a few more than that, ehm. I am a newbie grower, but a long time... uhmmm... hobbyist, enthusiastic about mushrooms and other goodies.

Quote:

I think the best course of action would be to put those trays inside either a monotub or big SGFC.
I don't trust the whole choke bag method



Duly noted, thanks. I suppose at the moment it doesn't matter much, since the boxes are closed and there's a nice veil of moisture on the walls. Later on, I'll ask for more info if I'm uncertain.

However, I have to say I had quite a decent experience overall with grow kits (I only know the kind with choke bags). They are blatantly overpriced all right, and there is some variance in yield, probably depending on the age of the mycelium, the strain, the phase of the moon and the length of your hair - but when they deliver, they do deliver multiple flushes of goodness!

By the way, when a grow kit failed to fruit or underperformed, a friendly notice to the seller (one of The Shroomery's sponsors) always got me fair compensation in the form of free or heavily discounted ones on my next order. That's why I've got no regrets about the grow kits I bought. Besides, it was a single clone from a grow kit (what I call the "mother") that started both my grows. It was a "pretty milf", as I put it: a large 1st-flush fruit that had already spored. I came late to the harvest by Murphy's law.

Maybe with smarter timing I could have taken a better sample for cloning. Sometimes in the future I'd like to start from spores rather than tissue, but I suppose it's a different route to learn, with different (more dangerous?) routes to contamination. If this grow goes OK, I'll try to collect spores.

Thanks again for your feedback - it is appreciated!


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OfflinePortabellaFella 1
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Re: 2nd try clone -> agar -> grain -> bulk [Re: globos]
    #23766116 - 10/24/16 07:45 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Did you case in just all verm? :awesketch:


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Re: 2nd try clone -> agar -> grain -> bulk [Re: globos]
    #23766131 - 10/24/16 07:57 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Whose tek did you use for agar to liquid inoculant? I wanted to try that but couldn't find a good solid tek.


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Invisibleglobos
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Re: 2nd try clone -> agar -> grain -> bulk [Re: Plazmotech]
    #23766910 - 10/24/16 01:56 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PortabellaFella 1 said:
Did you case in just all verm? :awesketch:



Yes. Two boxes out of four, as an experiment.


Quote:

Plazmotech said:
Whose tek did you use for agar to liquid inoculant? I wanted to try that but couldn't find a good solid tek.



Actually, no tek. I'd read about that on these very forums, and I just went from memory.

Using a still air box is fundamental. What I do inside the sab is: cut up the agar into wedges, drop the wedges into boiled water, shake, suck some liquid, inoculate into the jars through the aeration hole in the lid. Of course, everything that goes into the sab is sterilized on the outside - in my case, by spraying liberal amounts of denaturated alcohol. Availability of cheap sterile containers is important. I like the small plastic screwtop jars used for urine samples.

I could do a more detailed write up, but I'm still a newbie, and I doubt my advice would have much value. I don't even have enough experience to say "it's been working for me for years, so do like me and you'll be happy!" - that would be a blatant lie :-D  Besides, I think there must be several teks about this floating around the Shroomery - after all, that's where I got the idea in the first place. And finally, don't follow me: my results until today haven't been memorable, and most knowledgeable people around here suggested I ditch liquid inoculation in favor of dry-dropping a wedge of agar into the grain - which I'm going to do on the next occasion.


Edited by globos (10/24/16 04:37 PM)


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InvisibleComebackKid
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Re: 2nd try clone -> agar -> grain -> bulk [Re: globos]
    #23767045 - 10/24/16 02:39 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

globos said:
Quote:

PortabellaFella 1 said:
Did you case in just all verm? :awesketch:



Yes. Two boxes out of four, as an experiment.






Damn I made that mistake a couple weeks ago. Tub took forever to pin and had a fairly dissapointing pinset compared to my previous tub same clone no casing.

Fruited a week earlier and had an amazing pinset.

Learned not to case with verm alone.


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Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind.
Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind,
is peering in from outside the universe.

Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself


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Invisibleglobos
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Re: 2nd try clone -> agar -> grain -> bulk [Re: ComebackKid]
    #23767392 - 10/24/16 04:23 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ComebackKid said:
Damn I made that mistake a couple weeks ago. Tub took forever to pin and had a fairly dissapointing pinset compared to my previous tub same clone no casing.

Fruited a week earlier and had an amazing pinset.

Learned not to case with verm alone.



Aaw no...!
What am I supposed to case with instead? I thought a little verm would be "better than nothing at all".


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Re: 2nd try clone -> agar -> grain -> bulk [Re: globos]
    #23767407 - 10/24/16 04:28 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Peat moss or coir works good apparently


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:amanita2: Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care :sporedrop:

Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind.
Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind,
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Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself


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Invisibleglobos
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Re: 2nd try clone -> agar -> grain -> bulk [Re: ComebackKid]
    #23767445 - 10/24/16 04:40 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I see, thank you. Well, I'll report on relative progress anyway. Life is for learning...


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Invisibleglobos
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Re: 2nd try clone -> agar -> grain -> bulk [Re: globos]
    #23770356 - 10/25/16 03:13 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Colonization seems to be going on quite quickly. All the white spots appeared in just about 24 hours!

DAY 1


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