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Mooshie_Muncha
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Registered: 01/20/16
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Essential Noob Questions that need to be answered for all beginners. PF Tek.
#23751107 - 10/19/16 04:14 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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So, since I have used the search function endlessly without avail and no general consensus on certain questions, I thought that I should set up a post where I believe I have questions that every beginner should have the answers to in one comprehensive post.
1. If your jars are 100% colonized and they start pinning on the first or second day of consolidation, do you fruit them? Or, do you leave them to continue consolidating for the full week while the pins grow in-vitro?
2. When you finally birth your cakes, do you remove the pins when you dunk them to ensure an even flush? Or, do you leave the pins on considering that they will survive a 24 hour dunk?
3. How long should it take pins to grow from primordia to maturity? If it takes longer, does it indicate a problem?
4. Does light affect in-vitro pinning, or is it beneficial to colonization?
5. How long is too long for a jar to show first signs of colonization?
6. How many times should you fan a day? Could you fan too much?
7. How long should it take for the first pins to form after dunking and rolling?
8. If your jars start fruiting in-vitro before 100% colonization, presumably because of FAE and not contamination, do you leave it to finish colonizing, or do you simply wash the substrate that hasn't been colonized off and place it into fruiting? Does this affect your overall grow due to no consolidation period?
Those are the questions that I can take off the top of my head right now. If anybody else has any questions, please let me know and I'll add them to the post.
Looking forward to some answers from experienced hobby mycologists and thanks in advance.
I think that these are basic questions that most beginners would love to have answered.
Edited by Mooshie_Muncha (10/19/16 05:04 AM)
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wtfcrazymofo
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Registered: 07/26/15
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Re: Essential Noob Questions that need to be answered for all beginners. PF Tek. [Re: Mooshie_Muncha] 1
#23751112 - 10/19/16 04:25 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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1.yes
2.remove and eat
3.about a week, probably
4.Tough question,but fruiting correctly requires light, spawn run may not really care either way
5.1 month
6.Don't fan if your sgfc is correct
7.about a week
-------------------- If you want to eat->https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8553541 Bag sealers are to bulky (my hood isn't that big) https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28622922
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Mooshie_Muncha
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Re: Essential Noob Questions that need to be answered for all beginners. PF Tek. [Re: wtfcrazymofo]
#23751113 - 10/19/16 04:27 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Awesome. Thanks for the reply.
However, since number 1 is a dual question, just for clarity purposes, do you fruit the jar or leave it to consolidate?
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Josex
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Registered: 11/13/15
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Re: Essential Noob Questions that need to be answered for all beginners. PF Tek. [Re: Mooshie_Muncha]
#23751129 - 10/19/16 04:48 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mooshie_Muncha said: Awesome. Thanks for the reply.
However, since number 1 is a dual question, just for clarity purposes, do you fruit the jar or leave it to consolidate?
You fruit the jars if they start pinning invitro.
4. Does light affect in-vitro pinning, or is it beneficial to colonization?
Light has shown to be benefitial in all stages of growth, including colonization. I don't think light a direct bearing on invitro pinning, either invitro pinning starts because of full colonization or as a "survival" response against contamination.
Of course, another major pinning trigger is fresh air, but we assume there's no fresh air entering your filtered jars, only gas exchange.
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Mooshie_Muncha
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Re: Essential Noob Questions that need to be answered for all beginners. PF Tek. [Re: Josex]
#23751131 - 10/19/16 04:51 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Excellent! Thank you. It lays much to rest.
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wtfcrazymofo
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Re: Essential Noob Questions that need to be answered for all beginners. PF Tek. [Re: Mooshie_Muncha]
#23751133 - 10/19/16 04:53 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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They are not pins they are aborts. If you leave them in there they will take cake BE and rot themselves. Also the cake pinning in-vetro is an indication that it is ready to fruit.
-------------------- If you want to eat->https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8553541 Bag sealers are to bulky (my hood isn't that big) https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28622922
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Mooshie_Muncha
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Re: Essential Noob Questions that need to be answered for all beginners. PF Tek. [Re: wtfcrazymofo]
#23751136 - 10/19/16 04:56 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
wtfcrazymofo said: They are not pins they are aborts. If you leave them in there they will take cake BE and rot themselves. Also the cake pinning in-vetro is an indication that it is ready to fruit.
Hmm... Interesting. For experiential purposes, I dunked 2 cakes of GT with the in-vitro pins on and put them into fruiting. They are growing, albeit, much slower than I had anticipated. They also have dark brown caps, instead of the tan one would expect with a GT strain.
The other 3 cakes I have, I removed the pins and rolled them. Will see how they turn out.
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Mooshie_Muncha
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Re: Essential Noob Questions that need to be answered for all beginners. PF Tek. [Re: Mooshie_Muncha]
#23751140 - 10/19/16 04:59 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Another question, if your jars start fruiting in-vitro before 100% colonization, presumably because of FAE and not contamination, do you leave it to finish colonizing, or do you simply wash the substrate that hasn't been colonized off?
Does this affect your overall grow due to no consolidation period?
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Josex
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Registered: 11/13/15
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Re: Essential Noob Questions that need to be answered for all beginners. PF Tek. [Re: Mooshie_Muncha]
#23751144 - 10/19/16 05:03 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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You can either remove the pins that formed invitro or dunk the cake, pins and all, and roll them with the pins. They don't necessarily have to abort. But even if they did, the energy expenditure on the formation of the pins would be negligible and it would have little to no effect on the final BE.
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Mooshie_Muncha
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Re: Essential Noob Questions that need to be answered for all beginners. PF Tek. [Re: Josex]
#23751145 - 10/19/16 05:06 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Josex said: You can either remove the pins that formed invitro or dunk the cake, pins and all, and roll them with the pins. They don't necessarily have to abort. But even if they did, the energy expenditure on the formation of the pins would be negligible and it would have little to no effect on the final BE.
I see... Apologies for my ignorance, "BE" stands for?
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Josex
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Re: Essential Noob Questions that need to be answered for all beginners. PF Tek. [Re: Mooshie_Muncha]
#23751150 - 10/19/16 05:12 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mooshie_Muncha said: Another question, if your jars start fruiting in-vitro before 100% colonization, presumably because of FAE and not contamination, do you leave it to finish colonizing, or do you simply wash the substrate that hasn't been colonized off?
Does this affect your overall grow due to no consolidation period?
First off, there's no way fresh air would enter your jars unless you opened the lid like three times a day and fanned it for the heck of it, wich would be absurd.
If your jars are prepared as per the tek, no fresh air should enter your jars. The jars must have a layer of dry verm that acts as a filter and provides the gas exchange mycelium needs during colonization.
If your jars start pinning before reaching 100% colonization it can either be a response to contamination or because your jars are very big to use for the PF tek and they just stall out. In both cases you should just trash them and do better next time.
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Mooshie_Muncha
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Registered: 01/20/16
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Loc: Zeta Reticuli
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Re: Essential Noob Questions that need to be answered for all beginners. PF Tek. [Re: Josex]
#23751156 - 10/19/16 05:17 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Josex said:
Quote:
Mooshie_Muncha said: Another question, if your jars start fruiting in-vitro before 100% colonization, presumably because of FAE and not contamination, do you leave it to finish colonizing, or do you simply wash the substrate that hasn't been colonized off?
Does this affect your overall grow due to no consolidation period?
First off, there's no way fresh air would enter your jars unless you opened the lid like three times a day and fanned it for the heck of it, wich would be absurd.
If your jars are prepared as per the tek, no fresh air should enter your jars. The jars must have a layer of dry verm that acts as a filter and provides the gas exchange mycelium needs during colonization.
If your jars start pinning before reaching 100% colonization it can either be a response to contamination or because your jars are very big to use for the PF tek and they just stall out. In both cases you should just trash them and do better next time.
Interesting. I did follow the tek, with one exception, it is impossible to find 1/2 pint jars in the country where I am. Some of my jars were 150ml and the others are 350ml. They only started pinning when I grew impatient and flipped them to get the bottom to colonize. Noob mistake, I know. Luckily, there was only a sliver left, so I left it for a day to finish and then dunked them. I believe that the flipping allowed to cake to act like a plunger, pushing out CO2 and pulling in O2.
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Josex
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Re: Essential Noob Questions that need to be answered for all beginners. PF Tek. [Re: Mooshie_Muncha]
#23751159 - 10/19/16 05:19 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mooshie_Muncha said:
I see... Apologies for my ignorance, "BE" stands for?
Biological Efficiency, it is the percentile relation between the weight of the substrate and the weight of the produce (the weight of all your shroomies).
For example, a BE of 100% would mean that the weight of the substrate equals the weight of the produce.
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Mooshie_Muncha
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Re: Essential Noob Questions that need to be answered for all beginners. PF Tek. [Re: Josex]
#23751161 - 10/19/16 05:20 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Josex said:
Quote:
Mooshie_Muncha said:
I see... Apologies for my ignorance, "BE" stands for?
Biological Efficiency, it is the percentile relation between the weight of the substrate and the weight of the produce (the weight of all your shroomies).
For example, a BE of 100% would mean that the weight of the substrate equals the weight of the produce.
I should have known that, haha. Do you perhaps know what the BE of BRF is?
P.s. Thanks for the rating.
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Josex
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Re: Essential Noob Questions that need to be answered for all beginners. PF Tek. [Re: Josex]
#23751172 - 10/19/16 05:29 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Interesting. I did follow the tek, with one exception, it is impossible to find 1/2 pint jars in the country where I am. Some of my jars were 150ml and the others are 350ml. They only started pinning when I grew impatient and flipped them to get the bottom to colonize. Noob mistake, I know. Luckily, there was only a sliver left, so I left it for a day to finish and them dunked them. I believe that the flipping allowed to cake to act like a plunger, pushing out CO2 and pulling in O2.
Well, the last thing you should do is flip your jars. The reason for this is that if you do it, the dry vermiculite layer is going to shift, and since this layer is your filter and protection against contaminants, it is likely that the nasties that might have landed on it will end up penetrating into your substrate.
That's why you should never touch your jars, just leave them do their thing and be patient.
If you can't find the right jars, there are some nice jam glass jars (with wide mouth) that do the job nicely. The brand Bonna Maman is perfectly suited for pf tek and it's also yummy yummy
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Josex
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Re: Essential Noob Questions that need to be answered for all beginners. PF Tek. [Re: Mooshie_Muncha]
#23751176 - 10/19/16 05:36 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mooshie_Muncha said:
I should have known that, haha. Do you perhaps know what the BE of BRF is?
BE is not tek-dependent. The BE mostly depends on genetics and environmental factors (how much water is available, fresh air, temperature...).
The genetics you get in a pf jar are a lottery, because they come from multispore. So you can luck out and do a wild 200% BE or you could also just get one sad shroom out of one cake.
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Mooshie_Muncha
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Registered: 01/20/16
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Re: Essential Noob Questions that need to be answered for all beginners. PF Tek. [Re: Josex]
#23751186 - 10/19/16 05:39 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Josex said:
Quote:
Interesting. I did follow the tek, with one exception, it is impossible to find 1/2 pint jars in the country where I am. Some of my jars were 150ml and the others are 350ml. They only started pinning when I grew impatient and flipped them to get the bottom to colonize. Noob mistake, I know. Luckily, there was only a sliver left, so I left it for a day to finish and them dunked them. I believe that the flipping allowed to cake to act like a plunger, pushing out CO2 and pulling in O2.
Well, the last thing you should do is flip your jars. The reason for this is that if you do it, the dry vermiculite layer is going to shift, and since this layer is your filter and protection against contaminants, it is likely that the nasties that might have landed on it will end up penetrating into your substrate.
That's why you should never touch your jars, just leave them do their thing and be patient.
If you can't find the right jars, there are some nice jam glass jars (with wide mouth) that do the job nicely. The brand Bonna Maman is perfectly suited for pf tek and it's also yummy yummy

I definitely learnt that the hard way. My second batch is busy colonizing now and I have certainly learnt much from my first time around.
Haha, I'll definitely keep an eye out. But this country is pretty crappy when it comes to glassware. Not even Ball or Consol sell the jars that I need. The 350ml jars, albeit a bit larger, are still wide enough to get the cake out intact.
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Josex
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Re: Essential Noob Questions that need to be answered for all beginners. PF Tek. [Re: Mooshie_Muncha]
#23751195 - 10/19/16 05:47 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Try ebay, sometimes you can find a good bargain on ball jars. Also, do not discard the idea of using plastic instead, but if you do, be sure they're made out of pp5 plastic (polypropylene). If the plastic jar is made of popypropylene, you should see this at the bottom of the container:
 Why pp5? Cos it can withstand a pc cycle or steam-sterilization without warping or melting.
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Mooshie_Muncha
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Re: Essential Noob Questions that need to be answered for all beginners. PF Tek. [Re: Josex]
#23751198 - 10/19/16 05:51 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Damn, thanks, dude. You've been loads of help. Never even knew about the plastic!
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Josex
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Re: Essential Noob Questions that need to be answered for all beginners. PF Tek. [Re: Mooshie_Muncha]
#23751203 - 10/19/16 05:55 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Welcome to the Shroomery!
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Mooshie_Muncha
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Re: Essential Noob Questions that need to be answered for all beginners. PF Tek. [Re: Josex]
#23751209 - 10/19/16 05:58 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hahaha, thank you very much!
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LocN9ne
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Re: Essential Noob Questions that need to be answered for all beginners. PF Tek. [Re: Josex]
#23751234 - 10/19/16 06:39 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Josex said:
Quote:
Mooshie_Muncha said:
I should have known that, haha. Do you perhaps know what the BE of BRF is?
BE is not tek-dependent. The BE mostly depends on genetics and environmental factors (how much water is available, fresh air, temperature...).
The genetics you get in a pf jar are a lottery, because they come from multispore. So you can luck out and do a wild 200% BE or you could also just get one sad shroom out of one cake.
Just for the record though, the BE on brf cakes is outstanding.
--------------------
Q&A US vs. THEM The more I learn, the less I know.
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Mooshie_Muncha
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Registered: 01/20/16
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Re: Essential Noob Questions that need to be answered for all beginners. PF Tek. [Re: LocN9ne]
#23751242 - 10/19/16 06:48 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
LocN9ne said:
Quote:
Josex said:
Quote:
Mooshie_Muncha said:
I should have known that, haha. Do you perhaps know what the BE of BRF is?
BE is not tek-dependent. The BE mostly depends on genetics and environmental factors (how much water is available, fresh air, temperature...).
The genetics you get in a pf jar are a lottery, because they come from multispore. So you can luck out and do a wild 200% BE or you could also just get one sad shroom out of one cake.
Just for the record though, the BE on brf cakes is outstanding.
Damn, I missed that reply and thanks for pointing it out. That's a crazy BE though. Haha, I find it ironic, on one of my cakes, I have only 1 shroom growing out of it. It is pretty sad.
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