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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds [Re: qman] 1
#23772964 - 10/26/16 10:59 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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qman said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: They started collecting income taxes in 1913
That's true, but "during World War ll Congress introduced payroll withholding". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_history_of_the_United_States
That wouldn't change the taxes owed to the Government.
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qman said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: time to shift the tax burden back to the rich once again
That's not going to happen and even if it was attempted it's not likely to work, the elites aren't going to burden themselves with the debt issue, it will be placed on the working class. My suggestion to people, stop whining about what SHOULD happen and prepare oneself for what is LIKELY going to happen.
My suggestion to people is to vote for people who will do something about it. Which is NOT republicans.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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qman
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Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#23772982 - 10/26/16 11:08 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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qman said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: They started collecting income taxes in 1913
That's true, but "during World War ll Congress introduced payroll withholding". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_history_of_the_United_States
That wouldn't change the taxes owed to the Government.
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qman said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: time to shift the tax burden back to the rich once again
That's not going to happen and even if it was attempted it's not likely to work, the elites aren't going to burden themselves with the debt issue, it will be placed on the working class. My suggestion to people, stop whining about what SHOULD happen and prepare oneself for what is LIKELY going to happen.
My suggestion to people is to vote for people who will do something about it. Which is NOT republicans.
Or Democrats!
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds [Re: qman] 1
#23773002 - 10/26/16 11:18 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Democrats can do it if they win both the House and Senate.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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qman
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Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#23773027 - 10/26/16 11:30 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Democrats can do it if they win both the House and Senate.
So you're counting on the same bought and paid for Democratic Congressmen that voted and passed the ACA? I admire your optimism.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds [Re: qman] 1
#23773129 - 10/26/16 12:20 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: So you're counting on the same bought and paid for Democratic Congressmen that voted and passed the ACA? I admire your optimism.
Do you think there's a better chance that Republicans would pass a tax increase on the super rich?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 3
#23773144 - 10/26/16 12:25 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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qman again scapegoating Dems to deflect from his extremely flawed socioeconomic philosophy.
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qman
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Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds [Re: The Ecstatic]
#23773306 - 10/26/16 01:22 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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The Ecstatic said: qman again scapegoating Dems to deflect from his extremely flawed socioeconomic philosophy.
Yeah, letting in tens of millions of illegal workers and exporting millions of high quality manufacturing jobs has worked out so well the past 35 years. 
I want to reverse that outcome, begging the government to give you more is a lost cause, we need to change our labor markets for the benefit of US citizens, not the top .01%.
Hiking the minimum wage is not a long term solution for the working class, it's nothing more than a bandaid on a gunshot wound.
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qman
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Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#23773316 - 10/26/16 01:25 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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qman said: So you're counting on the same bought and paid for Democratic Congressmen that voted and passed the ACA? I admire your optimism.
Do you think there's a better chance that Republicans would pass a tax increase on the super rich? 
Nope. Like I said, make preparations instead of a holding onto the pipedream that politicians are going to start extracting money from the wealthy and all of our problems will go away, not gonna happen.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds [Re: qman] 1
#23773446 - 10/26/16 02:11 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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qman said: letting in tens of millions of illegal workers and exporting millions of high quality manufacturing jobs has worked out so well the past 35 years. 
You have been unable to show that there is any significant correlation between illegal immigration and economic prosperity. You have based your arguments on unsupported racism. The fact is that in the last decade, more illegals have left the country than have come into the country, which actually appears to DISPROVE your argument.
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qman said: I want to reverse that outcome, begging the government to give you more is a lost cause, we need to change our labor markets for the benefit of US citizens, not the top .01%.
I don't think anyone disagrees with you except you. You want to elect people that will help the top .01% even more with greater tax cuts.
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qman said: Hiking the minimum wage is not a long term solution for the working class, it's nothing more than a bandaid on a gunshot wound.
More than 25% of the entire country now earn LESS than the 1968 minimum wage. A minimum wage hike wouldn't be a bandaid, it'd be open heart surgery.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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qman
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Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#23773932 - 10/26/16 04:51 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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qman said: letting in tens of millions of illegal workers and exporting millions of high quality manufacturing jobs has worked out so well the past 35 years. 
You have been unable to show that there is any significant correlation between illegal immigration and economic prosperity. You have based your arguments on unsupported racism. The fact is that in the last decade, more illegals have left the country than have come into the country, which actually appears to DISPROVE your argument.
Quote:
qman said: I want to reverse that outcome, begging the government to give you more is a lost cause, we need to change our labor markets for the benefit of US citizens, not the top .01%.
I don't think anyone disagrees with you except you. You want to elect people that will help the top .01% even more with greater tax cuts.
Quote:
qman said: Hiking the minimum wage is not a long term solution for the working class, it's nothing more than a bandaid on a gunshot wound.
More than 25% of the entire country now earn LESS than the 1968 minimum wage. A minimum wage hike wouldn't be a bandaid, it'd be open heart surgery.
"more illegals have left...appears to DISPROVE your argument"
Yeah, the outflow of 140,000 relative to 16 MILLION illegals disproves the facts, what a joke. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/20/us/more-mexican-immigrants-leaving-us-than-entering-report-finds.html?_r=0
The inability for 25% of workers to command more than minimum wage is very telling, so is the fact that in real terms it's very low.
If only hiking the minimum wages around the globe could create economic prosperity, it's much more complicated than making a state mandate.
Since you don't care about basic supply and demand forces, I'm not surprised you ignore these realities.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds [Re: qman] 1
#23774439 - 10/26/16 07:33 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: The fact is that in the last decade, more illegals have left the country than have come into the country, which actually appears to DISPROVE your argument.
Yeah, the outflow of 140,000 relative to 16 MILLION illegals disproves the facts, what a joke.
What "facts"??? The fact is that the illegal population has been declining since 2007. You haven't shown a correlation between immigration and economic problems. We had far more immigrants as a percent of the population in the late 1800s/early 1900s than we do today.
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qman said: The inability for 25% of workers to command more than minimum wage is very telling, so is the fact that in real terms it's very low.
It is very telling, but the question is what is it telling of? It's been shown to you over and over the rich are richer than ever, because they're aren't sharing their profits with their workers like they used to with strong labor unions. The money is there, but the unions aren't (and neither is the minimum wage).
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qman said: If only hiking the minimum wages around the globe could create economic prosperity, it's much more complicated than making a state mandate.
But reality shows it does create prosperity. Just look at the cities with the highest minimum wages as evidence.
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qman said: Since you don't care about basic supply and demand forces, I'm not surprised you ignore these realities.
The problem is that reality itself doesn't appear to care about supply and demand forces. I'll ask again, do wages go down with greater unemployment or don't they?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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qman
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Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#23774557 - 10/26/16 08:02 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
qman said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: The fact is that in the last decade, more illegals have left the country than have come into the country, which actually appears to DISPROVE your argument.
Yeah, the outflow of 140,000 relative to 16 MILLION illegals disproves the facts, what a joke.
What "facts"??? The fact is that the illegal population has been declining since 2007. You haven't shown a correlation between immigration and economic problems. We had far more immigrants as a percent of the population in the late 1800s/early 1900s than we do today.
Quote:
qman said: The inability for 25% of workers to command more than minimum wage is very telling, so is the fact that in real terms it's very low.
It is very telling, but the question is what is it telling of? It's been shown to you over and over the rich are richer than ever, because they're aren't sharing their profits with their workers like they used to with strong labor unions. The money is there, but the unions aren't (and neither is the minimum wage).
Quote:
qman said: If only hiking the minimum wages around the globe could create economic prosperity, it's much more complicated than making a state mandate.
But reality shows it does create prosperity. Just look at the cities with the highest minimum wages as evidence.
Quote:
qman said: Since you don't care about basic supply and demand forces, I'm not surprised you ignore these realities.
The problem is that reality itself doesn't appear to care about supply and demand forces. I'll ask again, do wages go down with greater unemployment or don't they?

Yeah, immigration over a hundred years ago is the same as today. There's a clear correlation between our open southern border and lower wages. What do you think happens when you flood 15 million low skilled workers into a competitive labor market? Again, economics 101.
"aren't sharing their profits"
Companies don't share their profits, they compensate their employees at the least amount they can get away with, if there's a pile of resumes on the desk the compensation naturally remains weaker than if there's a shortage of labor, again economics 101.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/192356/number-of-full-time-employees-in-the-usa-since-1990/
http://dailycaller.com/2014/12/19/fewer-us-born-americans-have-jobs-now-than-in-2007/
Yeah, employment for the natives is just wonderful. http://cis.org/all-employment-growth-since-2000-went-to-immigrants
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds [Re: qman] 1
#23774656 - 10/26/16 08:28 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: We had far more immigrants as a percent of the population in the late 1800s/early 1900s than we do today.
Yeah, immigration over a hundred years ago is the same as today. 
No, there were MORE immigrants back then as percentage of the population.
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qman said: There's a clear correlation between our open southern border and lower wages.
Do you have any evidence of a correlation? If you do, you can change my mind. 
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qman said: What do you think happens when you flood 15 million low skilled workers into a competitive labor market? Again, economics 101.
Again, econ 101 doesn't apply here, as the real world evidence I've presented shows.
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qman said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: the rich are richer than ever, because they're aren't sharing their profits with their workers like they used to with strong labor unions. The money is there, but the unions aren't (and neither is the minimum wage).
Companies don't share their profits, they compensate their employees at the least amount they can get away with
Absolutely. And if there's a strong labor union, or a high minimum wage, the 'least amount' is much greater. And I can show a very strong correlation between union membership and the share of profits companies give to workers:

Quote:
qman said: if there's a pile of resumes on the desk the compensation naturally remains weaker than if there's a shortage of labor, again economics 101.
I get Econ 101. You don't get reality. I've repeatedly shown there is currently NO correlation between wages and how tight the labor market is.
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qman said: https://www.statista.com/statistics/192356/number-of-full-time-employees-in-the-usa-since-1990/
http://dailycaller.com/2014/12/19/fewer-us-born-americans-have-jobs-now-than-in-2007/
Yeah, employment for the natives is just wonderful. http://cis.org/all-employment-growth-since-2000-went-to-immigrants
I've explained why labor force participation is down many, many times. Either refute what I've said, learn what I've said, or stop repeating nonsense.
The reason labor force participation is down is because more people are going to college and more people are retiring early. It's an irrelevant statistic. You should look at U6 unemployment as an indicator of how tight the labor market is.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Shroomism
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Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds [Re: blingbling] 1
#23774981 - 10/26/16 10:14 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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blingbling said:
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viktor said:
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qman said:
Or paying for their own military defense, thanks to US taxpayers they are getting a massive discount. BTW, Trump mentioned this needs to change. This is the reason why EU citizens can take vacations.
What absolute crap. Americans get small vacations because they have been completely and utterly cucked by their ruling class, for whom they will do absolutely anything.
Europeans have long holidays because they refuse to accept shitty working conditions. Unlike Americans, who will happily get fucked up the arse by their bosses as long as no-one calls them a socialist.
One of my friends that went to america says you guys get 2 weeks holiday per year. Is that true? Because if it is that's pretty fucked.
I live in Australia and I get 5. My girlfriend is a nurse so she gets 6.
lol... 2 weeks of vacation in most US jobs is like a dream job. I don't think there is even a mandatory minimum.. it's been different at every job I've had pretty much. It's up to the employer to decide how much vacation to give... or IF they even give vacation at all. They don't even have to offer paid vacation if they don't want to. My current company offer 15 paid days off a year, which goes up by a day or two for every year you are there, up to like 28 days off a year. That's considered pretty fucking amazing by most people's standards. I've had jobs where they give you maybe 2-3 days a year, if you are lucky. If you have 2 weeks+ of paid vacation a year in the US then you got it pretty good. Lots of places don't offer even anywhere near that much unless you've been with the company for years and years.
I also pull like 55-60 hours a week on average. They just love to overwork us. Even at "good" companies... or especially at good companies? At least where I'm at they give us some decent paid time off and good benefits.
Americans aren't addicted to their jobs. Some are.. Most people are just trying to make ends meet paycheck to paycheck, focused on survival and trying to play catch up. Hard to 'transform' the system when you are just worried about keeping food in the fridge or keeping the lights on.
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howsyournaggerdoin
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Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds [Re: Shroomism]
#23775663 - 10/27/16 05:38 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Why dont americans join labor unions ? Are they afraid of getting fired ?
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds [Re: howsyournaggerdoin] 3
#23775718 - 10/27/16 06:37 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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A lot of American workers are against unions
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howsyournaggerdoin
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Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds [Re: The Ecstatic] 2
#23775743 - 10/27/16 06:56 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Brian Jones
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Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds [Re: howsyournaggerdoin] 1
#23775807 - 10/27/16 07:39 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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howsyournaggerdoin said: Why dont americans join labor unions ? Are they afraid of getting fired ?
We don't have Labor Unions, (I don't know if you are naïve, or to use to use a more polite term "misinformed" so you can't join them.) My last graduate degree was the 2nd rated Labor Institute in U.S. My late father and my late older brother were both in industrial unions which are just about as dead as they are. My younger brother is in a craft/ tradesman Union which are doing great all the way from Chicago across the top of the U.S to at least Boston. He's going to get a pension and an annuity, and he gets 40 something scale with time and a half, and double time, and he went to high school for 10 years. His knees are fucked, but he wouldn't trade his life away for anybody else. He knew a friend in High School, which was the friend who got him in but the father and the uncle was a union boss. So I don't know how the the trades work here. I think if you got some talent and you work hard you can probably can get on with somebody connected in an apprenticeship and then it's all up to you. In this part of the country the trades is a good middle class living; The industrial unions are mostly dead except in a couple facilities that are still running on the South Side or in Gary/Hammond,
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds [Re: The Ecstatic] 2
#23776181 - 10/27/16 10:17 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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The Ecstatic said:
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howsyournaggerdoin said: Why dont americans join labor unions ? Are they afraid of getting fired ?
A lot of American workers are against unions 
Yup. Corporations hate labor unions because they have so much more negotiating power than individuals, so many corporations offered non-union workers the same pay and benefits as union workers, and workers loved that because they didn't have to pay union dues. But as the unions lost power, so did the workers, and their pay and benefits went down over time as the chart above shows.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Ezuma
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Quote:
howsyournaggerdoin said: Why dont americans join labor unions ? Are they afraid of getting fired ?
the unions have been bled dry for a long time, in Canada too they're consistently being shit on
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