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Ipoxa
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Plugs vs Grain Spawn 3782 Outdoor
#23747948 - 10/18/16 05:17 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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So I have most of my fruiting area setup, just have to build shelves and finish in lab 100%. Easily within a month of that goal, so I want to start ordering stuff here soon. The reason why I am debating spawn vs plugs for shiitake is I have in my backyard a great environment for outdoor mushrooms to grow in, as I have found many different strains growing throughout this fall.
So my first question is, how long can plugs stay good in a refrigerator? I would not be inoculating any logs until roughly March when the sap starts growing on the few hardwood trees I want to cut down.
I've read that a lot of people have been able to go from plug to grain, except i'd be using a mostly grain WBS, is there any delay in starting it this way into the grain bags? I already have a place to incubate any indoor shiitake I will be starting, but I think I would like to move to growing them outdoors as well for variety, that way I Can also expand my fruiting for more oyster friendly mushrooms like lions mane, and maybe sword belt.
And my last question, I had some raised garden beds that the previous owner put under a big maple tree, I think I want to grow some seasonal mushrooms here as I have 2 good ones that are shaded 20 hours of the day or more. What are some good seasonal mushrooms that grow in beds? I haven't found much info on this.
Thanks for the input, I Want to get this right before I Start making investments into spawn.
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Quadman
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Re: Plugs vs Grain Spawn 3782 Outdoor [Re: Ipoxa]
#23748312 - 10/18/16 09:09 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I just asked for opinions on slants vs plugs with only Feather giving his opinion. I have had good success using plugs to wbs. Reishi, oysters fast, the lions mane were slow but they are always slow for me. Plugs compare to agar>grain. I use 2 plugs per qt jar and use forceps to place them half way down the jar on opposite sides. I too would like to know storage details, seems like they could stay dormant for a long time in plug form.
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Ipoxa
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Re: Plugs vs Grain Spawn 3782 Outdoor [Re: Quadman]
#23748648 - 10/18/16 11:23 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hmm, that's not a bad idea, because I could see myself doing plugs over agar in the long run, I feel like the wood would help it stay dormant and good for long while.
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Ferather
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Re: Plugs vs Grain Spawn 3782 Outdoor [Re: Ipoxa]
#23748895 - 10/18/16 01:11 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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They transfer perfectly fine, and roughly no different in speed. Worst case maybe 10 - 15% slower. No different to any other type of transfer, except your not working with starch.
Limited chance of bacteria, you can get mold mycelium though. Stores for a very long time, much longer than grain.
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Ipoxa
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Re: Plugs vs Grain Spawn 3782 Outdoor [Re: Ferather]
#23749469 - 10/18/16 04:41 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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You've sold me, thanks.
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Ferather
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Re: Plugs vs Grain Spawn 3782 Outdoor [Re: Ipoxa]
#23752393 - 10/19/16 03:54 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I advised others who where testing dowels to try adding some fertilizer. They got very good results, grain like speed and aggression.
So enrich those dowels, and get super spawn. I prefer paper pellets, very cheap.
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Ipoxa
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Re: Plugs vs Grain Spawn 3782 Outdoor [Re: Ferather]
#23753188 - 10/19/16 08:40 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I am still debating on what fertilizer I want to use, I want to try to be as organic as possible.
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Gr0wer
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Re: Plugs vs Grain Spawn 3782 Outdoor [Re: Ipoxa]
#23753546 - 10/19/16 10:47 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think in the end plugs are like $200 for 50 lbs while a sack of oat or milo is $13-$15.
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Ipoxa
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Re: Plugs vs Grain Spawn 3782 Outdoor [Re: Gr0wer]
#23753971 - 10/20/16 04:15 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I can believe that, but I Feel like I have the option to go much farther with the plugs, to start inoculating outdoor as well.
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Quadman
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Re: Plugs vs Grain Spawn 3782 Outdoor [Re: Ipoxa]
#23754418 - 10/20/16 10:13 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yes, but for $24 I bought 1000 plugs. If 2 plugs per qt of grain are used then I can inoculate 500 jars . No fuss ,no agar and store for ???? In a small bag.
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Ipoxa
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Re: Plugs vs Grain Spawn 3782 Outdoor [Re: Quadman]
#23754439 - 10/20/16 10:29 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Quadman said: Yes, but for $24 I bought 1000 plugs. If 2 plugs per qt of grain are used then I can inoculate 500 jars . No fuss ,no agar and store for ???? In a small bag.
Where did you buy your plugs at? Aloha bank is for $45/1000
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Quadman
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Re: Plugs vs Grain Spawn 3782 Outdoor [Re: Ipoxa]
#23754574 - 10/20/16 11:29 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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American woodcrafter supply,........very fast service! I am inoculating my own dowels. Might have been cheaper to get them already inoculated,but I have the cultures already.
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Edited by Quadman (10/20/16 11:32 AM)
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Ipoxa
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Re: Plugs vs Grain Spawn 3782 Outdoor [Re: Quadman]
#23754851 - 10/20/16 01:12 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Right I guess I should have figured that, but once I have a first bag if those dowels do good, no reason why I Cant continue on those.
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Ferather
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Re: Plugs vs Grain Spawn 3782 Outdoor [Re: Ipoxa]
#23754884 - 10/20/16 01:27 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Do you need more proof than hammering a plug into a log, then throwing it outdoors? If you can get dowels very cheap, then all you need is fertilizer.
No bullshit here my friend, simple obvious facts.
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Quadman
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Re: Plugs vs Grain Spawn 3782 Outdoor [Re: Ferather]
#23754966 - 10/20/16 01:53 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I always worry about how far out the culture has been grown when buying plugs. I guess you really don't know about any culture. How do you really know it is first generation?
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Ferather
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Re: Plugs vs Grain Spawn 3782 Outdoor [Re: Quadman]
#23754989 - 10/20/16 02:02 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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No way to find that out sadly. No way to reverse steps.
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Gr0wer
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Re: Plugs vs Grain Spawn 3782 Outdoor [Re: Ferather]
#23755241 - 10/20/16 03:24 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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You cant avoid agar if you want to maintain clean cultures. You cant see bacteria or yeast on plugs. And if your looking to inoculate logs you cant beat the price point of sawdust and inoculation tools. I can make 200 lbs of sawdust spawn for around $25, enough to inoculate hundreds if not thousands of logs. You can use sawdust spawn on almost all substrates but i would opt for a coarser dust for larger chunks.
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Quadman
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Re: Plugs vs Grain Spawn 3782 Outdoor [Re: Gr0wer]
#23755418 - 10/20/16 04:18 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm not eliminating agar just cuts way back. The plugs I've used seem to remain clean not much there for contaminates to grow on once colonized.
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t3chnobily
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Re: Plugs vs Grain Spawn 3782 Outdoor [Re: Quadman]
#23755920 - 10/20/16 07:47 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Using plugs for anything but inoculation logs (even then supplemented sawdust is superior) is silly. Expensive, slow, not nutritious enough to be good inoculations points.
If you don't want to maintain your own cultures just buy grain. Go g2g a few times if you'd like.
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Quadman
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Re: Plugs vs Grain Spawn 3782 Outdoor [Re: t3chnobily]
#23756001 - 10/20/16 08:16 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ok I'm silly. I do maintain my own cultures.For me it makes sense my hands do not allow good sterile technique. Plugs are easy for me to use.The few plug cultures I've used are just as fast as agar. Grain to grain is not easy for me either. This is a hobby for me, wishing I could do more. Everyone should live a few days in the life of someone that has disabilities.
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Edited by Quadman (10/20/16 08:20 PM)
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Ipoxa
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Re: Plugs vs Grain Spawn 3782 Outdoor [Re: Quadman]
#23756126 - 10/20/16 08:54 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm merely talking for starting out in my case, because I want to grow some outdoor as well, and eventually make my shiitake primarily outdoor, I just don't want to start that way because of how long it takes outdoor to grow. I also plan to make a oyster bed or two since I have old garden beds, and I feel like grain would not stand up the way plugs would in an outdoor garden.
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Quadman
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Re: Plugs vs Grain Spawn 3782 Outdoor [Re: Ipoxa]
#23756163 - 10/20/16 09:02 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ipoxa , I can't tell you how fast shiitake plugs are on grain. I do have some on hand. Reishi and oysters colonize a qt in approx 11 days. That is using just 2 plugs. I've wasted quite a bit of money on grain spawn and liquid cultures that were junk. Everyone has an opinion.
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Gr0wer
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Re: Plugs vs Grain Spawn 3782 Outdoor [Re: Quadman]
#23756407 - 10/20/16 10:35 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I literally just received some plugs of the tarragon oyster that were crap, all green mold embedded in the myc. Bottom line, if mushrooms can grow on a substrate so can countless other contaminations.
And about using grain spawn for beds, I had a bag of elm grain spawn with some black mold in one spot so i spawned about 9 cu/ft of mulch with it. Lookie here, Every single grain is growing out. The myth of grain spawn going rancid in outdoor grows given to us by the great Paul Stamets is just false, among many of his other factual claims. And this is not a first time experience with using grain spawn outdoors, just a recent use of it. Others have made totems and logs using grain spawn as well. If your having issues with grain spawn you need to brush up on your sterile tek.
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Ipoxa
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Re: Plugs vs Grain Spawn 3782 Outdoor [Re: Gr0wer]
#23757055 - 10/21/16 05:54 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Have not tried myself yet, but do you think yo uwill have to resupply your beds more often with grain spawn? I'm thinking with plugs if I threw say 200 plugs into a 6x6' bed and sewed them in they would last LONGER in the bed as oppose to the grain. I have no doubt you'll have one really great harvest from those, I just wonder if it will continue to fruit next year.
I'm still a beginner on this with just a crap ton of research online so I want to make sure I fine tooth my operation before growing large.
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t3chnobily
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Re: Plugs vs Grain Spawn 3782 Outdoor [Re: Ipoxa]
#23757152 - 10/21/16 07:03 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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/checks user name..... Sigh. Missed that entirely. I would be happy to supply you with culture on whatever substrate you'd like. PM me.
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Quadman
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Re: Plugs vs Grain Spawn 3782 Outdoor [Re: t3chnobily]
#23757299 - 10/21/16 08:28 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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It's all good. Just had a burr under my saddle. One of those not feeling so well days. Thanks for the generous offer , I have to many cultures now.
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Edited by Quadman (10/21/16 08:37 AM)
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Ferather
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Re: Plugs vs Grain Spawn 3782 Outdoor [Re: Quadman]
#23758175 - 10/21/16 02:10 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I semi agree with Gr0wer, and yes some of the things mentioned by Paul Stamets are indeed out of date. But, if he does agar and then does dowels like grains or even enriched sawdust, it will work.
If he gets a good price and is happy enriching his dowels, and treating them as grain. Personally you would be better off using a cheap substrate and cheap flour.
It's nearly impossible to skip agar, or qualified vendor.
While is possible to work around grain products. It's not yet possible to replace them.
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Quadman
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Re: Plugs vs Grain Spawn 3782 Outdoor [Re: Ferather]
#23758205 - 10/21/16 02:23 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm not skipping grain or agar. I'm using dowels to inoculate grain jars. Dowels>grain>substrate If needed agar>dowels>grain>substrate
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Edited by Quadman (10/21/16 02:25 PM)
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Ferather
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Re: Plugs vs Grain Spawn 3782 Outdoor [Re: Quadman]
#23758221 - 10/21/16 02:32 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I see what your doing, Its cool with me. You can also do agar > seed > seed > mini substrate > big substrate. Or for storing, like in your purpose, agar > seed > enriched dowels > seed (agar > seed).
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