Home | Community | Message Board

MushroomCube.com
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Mushroom-Hut Grow Bags

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
Offlinefilyep
Dr.
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 07/12/16
Posts: 131
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
Have I over supplemented my Shiitake blocks?
    #23747822 - 10/18/16 02:31 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Hi guys I have just done a few shiitake blocks and I think I may have put too much wheat bran in. I'm not sure where I got my formula from but I think it might have been for oysters.

I scaled it down and used volume rather than weight because moisture content of my woodchips would vary.

So I got  woodchips  88%
          Wheat bran 8%
          Gypsum    4%

This is all measured by volume which I won't put down because it's in metric and it might make your heads explode. :P

So I did two block of these one I have already inoculated with 16% of grain spawn and the other I am still to do. I was thinking of using less grain spawn since I have so much supplementation.

So I have seen other post saying to add around 1/8 to 1/4 to a 6lb block of sawdust and my block is at least half that with 1/2 cup of bran in it.

Will it be ok or should I expect mutated fruits. Also I have no idea of the strain I'm using.

Cheers


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFerather
Mycological
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Have I over supplemented my Shiitake blocks? [Re: filyep]
    #23748944 - 10/18/16 01:28 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Mutated? No only if its some weird sugar rich grain. 100% grain is stable, so no mutation.
No need for Gypsum, will only use the carbon, 99% of the calcium will be waste.

Think you will find up to 25% bran is considered normal.


--------------------
                   

Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

DTS DCH Driver for Realtek [DTS:X] - Unlocked and reprogrammed.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefilyep
Dr.
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 07/12/16
Posts: 131
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
Re: Have I over supplemented my Shiitake blocks? [Re: Ferather]
    #23749620 - 10/18/16 05:36 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I was just worried since other posts I've read said that over supplementation can cause mutated fruits. Even over spawning was considered as an over supplementation. I am using fine wood chips as oppose to saw dust so that might help.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineanthiawe
friendly stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/18/16
Posts: 652
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Re: Have I over supplemented my Shiitake blocks? [Re: filyep]
    #23749804 - 10/18/16 06:42 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

25% bran is not for shiitake. you should aim for 5% at most.


--------------------
TEK compendium


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefrog48
Peasant
Male


Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 612
Loc: France Flag
Last seen: 13 days, 6 hours
Re: Have I over supplemented my Shiitake blocks? [Re: filyep]
    #23750605 - 10/18/16 10:33 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

If your sterilization is correct, you can supplement up to 20%. So 8 is ok, no mutants.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefilyep
Dr.
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 07/12/16
Posts: 131
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
Re: Have I over supplemented my Shiitake blocks? [Re: frog48]
    #23750674 - 10/18/16 10:55 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

How does everyone measure there ingredients?

I do % dry volume because moisture content of sawdust/woodchips can vary.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineGr0wer
always improving
Male


Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 6,056
Loc: El Paso, TX Flag
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Have I over supplemented my Shiitake blocks? [Re: anthiawe]
    #23750726 - 10/18/16 11:09 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

anthiawe said:
25% bran is not for shiitake. you should aim for 5% at most.



False. You can supplement 20%



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefilyep
Dr.
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 07/12/16
Posts: 131
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
Re: Have I over supplemented my Shiitake blocks? [Re: Gr0wer]
    #23750771 - 10/18/16 11:29 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Wow that shiitake block has now become my goal. :smile:

How'd you whip that one up? What strain as well?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineanthiawe
friendly stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/18/16
Posts: 652
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Re: Have I over supplemented my Shiitake blocks? [Re: filyep]
    #23751127 - 10/19/16 04:46 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14208593
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14802309#14802309

why is the mutant debate for shiitake and over-supplementing such a prevalent issue on the shroomery? so right now there is 5%, 8%, and 20% from this thread alone. how much of this is strain dependent?


--------------------
TEK compendium


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefilyep
Dr.
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 07/12/16
Posts: 131
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
Re: Have I over supplemented my Shiitake blocks? [Re: anthiawe]
    #23751169 - 10/19/16 05:27 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Yes I read those and thus the reason for this post.

I have giving them lots of spawn and supplementation with bran. I used popcorn so that might not be as nutritious as other grains. I'm not sure of my strain so I guess the proof will be in the pudding.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefilyep
Dr.
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 07/12/16
Posts: 131
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
Re: Have I over supplemented my Shiitake blocks? [Re: filyep]
    #23751175 - 10/19/16 05:34 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Just to clarify I'm not saying 8% bran (my measurement by volume) is over supplementing just that compared to one poster from one of the links that used 1/2 a cup of bran per block got mutants(block larger than mine and I used 1/2 a cup of bran). 

Confused? Good. :smile:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCharly
Stranger
Registered: 06/11/16
Posts: 11
Last seen: 5 years, 3 days
Re: Have I over supplemented my Shiitake blocks? [Re: filyep]
    #23751606 - 10/19/16 10:28 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

What many people don't realize is that you could grow shiitake on 100% mixed sawdust. But it would take a lot time. You add supplements to speed up the incubation. After 20 days the supplements are gone. So:

80% hardwood, mixed fine & coarse
10% Grain
10% Bran

I still don't understand why people add gypsum. There is no biological reason for it.

Sterilize
1% Spawn
Seal bag

Depending on stain. 12 to 20 days at air temp 22c and 90 to 110 days at 16 to 19c. >>> drop to 15c and take bag off to fruit.

Voila.


Edited by Charly (10/19/16 12:37 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFerather
Mycological
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Have I over supplemented my Shiitake blocks? [Re: Charly]
    #23752172 - 10/19/16 02:23 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Charly said:
I still don't understand why people add gypsum. There is no biological reason for it.




Could not agree more. Helps with Ph and a minor carbon source, 98-99% waste.
If you lower the Ph too much, you can slow down growth greatly.

A fertilizer or rich additive would be better.
Such as 4%: Tea, Alfalfa or Straw.


--------------------
                   

Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

DTS DCH Driver for Realtek [DTS:X] - Unlocked and reprogrammed.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineQuadman
Challenged
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/23/16
Posts: 2,529
Loc: IL Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
Re: Have I over supplemented my Shiitake blocks? [Re: Ferather]
    #23752410 - 10/19/16 03:59 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ferather said:
Quote:

Charly said:
I still don't understand why people add gypsum. There is no biological reason for it.





If you lower the Ph too much, you can slow down growth greatly.





Gypsum should raise or keep pH stable. I believe it help keep the grains loose and prevents clumping.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinedrake89
Mushroom Magnate
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 4,168
Loc: TN
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Have I over supplemented my Shiitake blocks? [Re: Charly]
    #23752417 - 10/19/16 04:02 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Charly said:
What many people don't realize is that you could grow shiitake on 100% mixed sawdust. But it would take a lot time. You add supplements to speed up the incubation. After 20 days the supplements are gone. So:

80% hardwood, mixed fine & coarse
10% Grain
10% Bran

I still don't understand why people add gypsum. There is no biological reason for it.

Sterilize
1% Spawn
Seal bag

Depending on stain. 12 to 20 days at air temp 22c and 90 to 110 days at 16 to 19c. >>> drop to 15c and take bag off to fruit.

Voila.




grains aren't as good.  just stick with bran


--------------------
Fiery Fungi (like us on faeboo)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineGr0wer
always improving
Male


Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 6,056
Loc: El Paso, TX Flag
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Have I over supplemented my Shiitake blocks? [Re: drake89]
    #23753413 - 10/19/16 09:57 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

With no bran vs 20% bran you get 1/2 the yield with the same spawn rate. And 8% bran by volume is like 3% by weight. A 5 gal pail full of bran is only 9 lbs without compression, while i regularly put 30 lbs of pellets or grains in one pail.

and charly, welcome to the shroomery but you have a long way to go. Your days are way off, how about 50-60 days incubation at low 70s, cold shock, smack, chamber then birth 2-3 days later. after 20 days supplements are most definitely not gone, and they do not speed up incubation from what I've witnessed, the blocks will brown much better and faster with bran, i can tell you that much.


Edited by Gr0wer (10/19/16 10:01 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCharly
Stranger
Registered: 06/11/16
Posts: 11
Last seen: 5 years, 3 days
Re: Have I over supplemented my Shiitake blocks? [Re: Gr0wer]
    #23753924 - 10/20/16 03:06 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Supplements are only used to speed up the colonization of mycelium. A this point growth is only on the surface of particles and the mycelium accumulates no nutrition.
The next phase of growth is decomposing of the sawdust to build up a depot for fructification. Heat is the enemy here. At air temp 22c each ton of substrate generates 350 watt/h. This might lead to 10c higher temp at core. This puts a block at risk. Better a lower air temp and a slower decomposition rate/lower heat generation.

Also, a grower wants a huge first flush. I know no grower in Europe that does more the 2 flushes. Many only 1. Nonetheless yield is around 24%. This can be done by a longer incubation/repening phase.

A properly grown block will start fruiting with even the slightest touch and drop of temperature.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefrog48
Peasant
Male


Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 612
Loc: France Flag
Last seen: 13 days, 6 hours
Re: Have I over supplemented my Shiitake blocks? [Re: Charly]
    #23753932 - 10/20/16 03:15 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Hell, Charley seems to know what he's talking about. I agree, confirm. No bran, no yield though


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineanthiawe
friendly stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/18/16
Posts: 652
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Re: Have I over supplemented my Shiitake blocks? [Re: frog48]
    #23753965 - 10/20/16 04:10 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

so over supplemented shiitakes causing mutant fruits is a myth? or?


--------------------
TEK compendium


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefrog48
Peasant
Male


Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 612
Loc: France Flag
Last seen: 13 days, 6 hours
Re: Have I over supplemented my Shiitake blocks? [Re: anthiawe]
    #23754043 - 10/20/16 05:58 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I never saw any mutants and we supplement up to 20%. Yields are around 20 %, about 500 grams per block. May be the mutant story is related to strain 75, I run 3782 from mycelia and I never had any problems.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Mushroom-Hut Grow Bags


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* crazy popcorning shiitake block imnotthere 3,776 14 02/27/09 12:25 PM
by imnotthere
* Shiitake Block - black mold?
( 1 2 3 all )
flugelizor 9,528 42 04/11/14 05:08 PM
by blindingleaf
* My shiitake block Culland 1,862 11 08/09/08 11:13 AM
by Culland
* Shiitake blocks zeronio 2,600 5 10/22/02 10:22 AM
by psyconaut
* how to go about cold shocking my shiitake blocks..... SuchSmartMonkeys 1,782 4 04/13/08 03:56 AM
by makaveli8x8
* Sawdust spawn for shiitake blocks AnnoA 2,581 7 07/30/07 06:54 PM
by mattymonkey
* Early Pinning on Shiitake Block MacAndCheese 1,524 3 12/12/07 04:02 PM
by MacAndCheese
* shiitake block,is it still ok to mist at this point? chrisnh 1,687 9 11/16/08 06:58 PM
by frankenstoen

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: RogerRabbit, Pastywhyte, Forrester, Stromrider, SHROOMSISAY01
1,596 topic views. 3 members, 13 guests and 1 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.038 seconds spending 0.01 seconds on 16 queries.