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filyep
Dr.



Registered: 07/12/16
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Have I over supplemented my Shiitake blocks?
#23747822 - 10/18/16 02:31 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hi guys I have just done a few shiitake blocks and I think I may have put too much wheat bran in. I'm not sure where I got my formula from but I think it might have been for oysters.
I scaled it down and used volume rather than weight because moisture content of my woodchips would vary.
So I got woodchips 88% Wheat bran 8% Gypsum 4%
This is all measured by volume which I won't put down because it's in metric and it might make your heads explode. :P
So I did two block of these one I have already inoculated with 16% of grain spawn and the other I am still to do. I was thinking of using less grain spawn since I have so much supplementation.
So I have seen other post saying to add around 1/8 to 1/4 to a 6lb block of sawdust and my block is at least half that with 1/2 cup of bran in it.
Will it be ok or should I expect mutated fruits. Also I have no idea of the strain I'm using.
Cheers
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Ferather
Mycological



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Re: Have I over supplemented my Shiitake blocks? [Re: filyep]
#23748944 - 10/18/16 01:28 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Mutated? No only if its some weird sugar rich grain. 100% grain is stable, so no mutation. No need for Gypsum, will only use the carbon, 99% of the calcium will be waste.
Think you will find up to 25% bran is considered normal.
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filyep
Dr.



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Re: Have I over supplemented my Shiitake blocks? [Re: Ferather]
#23749620 - 10/18/16 05:36 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I was just worried since other posts I've read said that over supplementation can cause mutated fruits. Even over spawning was considered as an over supplementation. I am using fine wood chips as oppose to saw dust so that might help.
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anthiawe
friendly stranger


Registered: 05/18/16
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Re: Have I over supplemented my Shiitake blocks? [Re: filyep]
#23749804 - 10/18/16 06:42 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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25% bran is not for shiitake. you should aim for 5% at most.
-------------------- TEK compendium
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frog48
Peasant



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Re: Have I over supplemented my Shiitake blocks? [Re: filyep]
#23750605 - 10/18/16 10:33 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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If your sterilization is correct, you can supplement up to 20%. So 8 is ok, no mutants.
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filyep
Dr.



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Re: Have I over supplemented my Shiitake blocks? [Re: frog48]
#23750674 - 10/18/16 10:55 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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How does everyone measure there ingredients?
I do % dry volume because moisture content of sawdust/woodchips can vary.
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Gr0wer
always improving



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Re: Have I over supplemented my Shiitake blocks? [Re: anthiawe]
#23750726 - 10/18/16 11:09 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
anthiawe said: 25% bran is not for shiitake. you should aim for 5% at most.
False. You can supplement 20%
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filyep
Dr.



Registered: 07/12/16
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Re: Have I over supplemented my Shiitake blocks? [Re: Gr0wer]
#23750771 - 10/18/16 11:29 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Wow that shiitake block has now become my goal. 
How'd you whip that one up? What strain as well?
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anthiawe
friendly stranger


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Re: Have I over supplemented my Shiitake blocks? [Re: filyep]
#23751127 - 10/19/16 04:46 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14208593 https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14802309#14802309
why is the mutant debate for shiitake and over-supplementing such a prevalent issue on the shroomery? so right now there is 5%, 8%, and 20% from this thread alone. how much of this is strain dependent?
-------------------- TEK compendium
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filyep
Dr.



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Re: Have I over supplemented my Shiitake blocks? [Re: anthiawe]
#23751169 - 10/19/16 05:27 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yes I read those and thus the reason for this post.
I have giving them lots of spawn and supplementation with bran. I used popcorn so that might not be as nutritious as other grains. I'm not sure of my strain so I guess the proof will be in the pudding.
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filyep
Dr.



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Re: Have I over supplemented my Shiitake blocks? [Re: filyep]
#23751175 - 10/19/16 05:34 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Just to clarify I'm not saying 8% bran (my measurement by volume) is over supplementing just that compared to one poster from one of the links that used 1/2 a cup of bran per block got mutants(block larger than mine and I used 1/2 a cup of bran).
Confused? Good.
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Charly
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Registered: 06/11/16
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Re: Have I over supplemented my Shiitake blocks? [Re: filyep]
#23751606 - 10/19/16 10:28 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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What many people don't realize is that you could grow shiitake on 100% mixed sawdust. But it would take a lot time. You add supplements to speed up the incubation. After 20 days the supplements are gone. So:
80% hardwood, mixed fine & coarse 10% Grain 10% Bran
I still don't understand why people add gypsum. There is no biological reason for it.
Sterilize 1% Spawn Seal bag
Depending on stain. 12 to 20 days at air temp 22c and 90 to 110 days at 16 to 19c. >>> drop to 15c and take bag off to fruit.
Voila.
Edited by Charly (10/19/16 12:37 PM)
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Ferather
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Re: Have I over supplemented my Shiitake blocks? [Re: Charly]
#23752172 - 10/19/16 02:23 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Charly said: I still don't understand why people add gypsum. There is no biological reason for it.
Could not agree more. Helps with Ph and a minor carbon source, 98-99% waste. If you lower the Ph too much, you can slow down growth greatly.
A fertilizer or rich additive would be better. Such as 4%: Tea, Alfalfa or Straw.
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Quadman
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Registered: 04/23/16
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Re: Have I over supplemented my Shiitake blocks? [Re: Ferather]
#23752410 - 10/19/16 03:59 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ferather said:
Quote:
Charly said: I still don't understand why people add gypsum. There is no biological reason for it.
If you lower the Ph too much, you can slow down growth greatly.
Gypsum should raise or keep pH stable. I believe it help keep the grains loose and prevents clumping.
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drake89
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Re: Have I over supplemented my Shiitake blocks? [Re: Charly]
#23752417 - 10/19/16 04:02 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Charly said: What many people don't realize is that you could grow shiitake on 100% mixed sawdust. But it would take a lot time. You add supplements to speed up the incubation. After 20 days the supplements are gone. So:
80% hardwood, mixed fine & coarse 10% Grain 10% Bran
I still don't understand why people add gypsum. There is no biological reason for it.
Sterilize 1% Spawn Seal bag
Depending on stain. 12 to 20 days at air temp 22c and 90 to 110 days at 16 to 19c. >>> drop to 15c and take bag off to fruit.
Voila.
grains aren't as good. just stick with bran
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Gr0wer
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Registered: 09/16/03
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Re: Have I over supplemented my Shiitake blocks? [Re: drake89]
#23753413 - 10/19/16 09:57 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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With no bran vs 20% bran you get 1/2 the yield with the same spawn rate. And 8% bran by volume is like 3% by weight. A 5 gal pail full of bran is only 9 lbs without compression, while i regularly put 30 lbs of pellets or grains in one pail.
and charly, welcome to the shroomery but you have a long way to go. Your days are way off, how about 50-60 days incubation at low 70s, cold shock, smack, chamber then birth 2-3 days later. after 20 days supplements are most definitely not gone, and they do not speed up incubation from what I've witnessed, the blocks will brown much better and faster with bran, i can tell you that much.
Edited by Gr0wer (10/19/16 10:01 PM)
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Charly
Stranger
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Re: Have I over supplemented my Shiitake blocks? [Re: Gr0wer]
#23753924 - 10/20/16 03:06 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Supplements are only used to speed up the colonization of mycelium. A this point growth is only on the surface of particles and the mycelium accumulates no nutrition. The next phase of growth is decomposing of the sawdust to build up a depot for fructification. Heat is the enemy here. At air temp 22c each ton of substrate generates 350 watt/h. This might lead to 10c higher temp at core. This puts a block at risk. Better a lower air temp and a slower decomposition rate/lower heat generation.
Also, a grower wants a huge first flush. I know no grower in Europe that does more the 2 flushes. Many only 1. Nonetheless yield is around 24%. This can be done by a longer incubation/repening phase.
A properly grown block will start fruiting with even the slightest touch and drop of temperature.
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frog48
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Re: Have I over supplemented my Shiitake blocks? [Re: Charly]
#23753932 - 10/20/16 03:15 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hell, Charley seems to know what he's talking about. I agree, confirm. No bran, no yield though
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anthiawe
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Re: Have I over supplemented my Shiitake blocks? [Re: frog48]
#23753965 - 10/20/16 04:10 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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so over supplemented shiitakes causing mutant fruits is a myth? or?
-------------------- TEK compendium
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frog48
Peasant



Registered: 03/08/13
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Re: Have I over supplemented my Shiitake blocks? [Re: anthiawe]
#23754043 - 10/20/16 05:58 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I never saw any mutants and we supplement up to 20%. Yields are around 20 %, about 500 grams per block. May be the mutant story is related to strain 75, I run 3782 from mycelia and I never had any problems.
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