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OfflineAgarStudent
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Shotgun Terrarium Tek
    #23746552 - 10/17/16 05:50 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Hi Guys -

I was looking for the shotgun terrarium tek for pan cyans, but for some reason RR's video link is not working - Yes I did buy his videos, but this is not in them?

Is this method for fruiting pans still up-to-date or are there better pan fruiting teks?

Cheers


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: AgarStudent]
    #23747018 - 10/17/16 07:52 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

The SGFC isn't species specific. It's at the end of the pf tek videos when it talks about Fruiting

You hardly need the tek these days. 1/4 holes in a 2 inch grid. All 6 sides. With 4-6 inches of perlite.


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OfflineAgarStudent
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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23747278 - 10/17/16 09:13 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Ah okay.  Is there any way you could point me to a photo of that setup.  That is every two inches do a quarter inch hole on all four sides?, say somewhere above the casing level?
This is thus a different method to 'dialing in'?

Also the perlite is on the bottom to provide humidity and the pans can be cased in shallow plastic trays suspended above the perlite, on say an old oven grill or something.

Much appreciate your clarification :smile:


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OfflineGreg
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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: AgarStudent]
    #23747300 - 10/17/16 09:19 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)



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OfflineAgarStudent
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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: Greg]
    #23747337 - 10/17/16 09:41 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Awesome :thumbup:
It looks like the cakes can sit right ontop of that perlite without suspension?
Whew.  Sure glad I don't have to fork out for an air/exchange humidifier!


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: AgarStudent]
    #23747342 - 10/17/16 09:43 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

put your cakes on a small square of foil, or lids, or lids covered in foil :thumbup:


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: dankington]
    #23747431 - 10/17/16 10:30 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

All six sides not all four sides. Tubs have six sides. If you out holes on only four sides of a SGFC its not even a SGFC


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OfflineAgarStudent
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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23747709 - 10/18/16 12:27 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Alright, sounds like an awesome way to go.  Might use paper towels instead of perlite, as less silica to breath in!  Should get up to 90pc humidity at 20 deg ambient temperature I hope.  Had to go with a 50L tub, as the store only had sizes of 50L and 80L
Thanks guys


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: AgarStudent]
    #23747958 - 10/18/16 05:30 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

No,  no paper towels. Just perlite


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: PortabellaFella 1]
    #23747982 - 10/18/16 05:58 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Paper towels will work they just need to be replaced as needed.


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: dankington]
    #23747985 - 10/18/16 06:01 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

dankington said:
put your cakes on a small square of foil, or lids, or lids covered in foil :thumbup:



Lids covered in foil FTW :cool:


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: ComebackKid]
    #23747996 - 10/18/16 06:14 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Aren't paper towels counter productive? Blocking holes at the bottom of the sgfc? Repeatedly handling your cakes to change the paper towels?


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OfflineAgarStudent
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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: PortabellaFella 1]
    #23748040 - 10/18/16 06:44 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Does this look about right?



The plastic is all flimsy and it is hard not to crack and break the container.
Found these little black tubbies that you can fit right in the container.
They call them hangers at the store, but eight will fit in and they each come with lids

If I were to pack them with some mexicana grain and case in peat Moss:Calcium Carbonate, 10:1, should I just leave the lids off and start applying light or try and get the mycelium poking through the casing before they go in the terrarium - That is apply the high Co2, low light conditions for the mex cakes to pin first?

I haven't been able to fruit mex before this is why I ask.:confused:

Cheers


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: PortabellaFella 1]
    #23748169 - 10/18/16 08:12 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PortabellaFella 1 said:
Aren't paper towels counter productive? Blocking holes at the bottom of the sgfc? Repeatedly handling your cakes to change the paper towels?



No they are breathable...set your cakes on jar rings wrapped in foil.


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: cronicr]
    #23748200 - 10/18/16 08:24 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Ok, makes more sense explained. Thank you


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: PortabellaFella 1]
    #23748204 - 10/18/16 08:25 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Perlite is the easiest n obvious choice.


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: cronicr]
    #23748216 - 10/18/16 08:31 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Okay, thanks for the suggestion ;


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: AgarStudent]
    #23748238 - 10/18/16 08:40 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Dumb question, but how do you stop perlite from falling through the holes you just drilled?  Or isn't it an issue once you hydrate it?


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: AgarStudent]
    #23748251 - 10/18/16 08:46 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

You use coarse perlite


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: cronicr]
    #23748387 - 10/18/16 09:37 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Put a garbage bag under your elevated sgfc to catch the fallen perlite
Edit: under whatever your elevating your sgfc with


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Edited by PortabellaFella 1 (10/18/16 09:38 AM)


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: PortabellaFella 1]
    #23748471 - 10/18/16 10:17 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Some will fall out at first then it wedges in place. I get a bit come out when I rehydrate part way through after a few flushes


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: mrmazdarx9]
    #23749639 - 10/18/16 05:44 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Okay, Cheers :thumbup:


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: AgarStudent]
    #23751361 - 10/19/16 08:30 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I haven't invested in the perlite, yet, as a bag of course grain costs $40 from the hydro store.
I thought I would try it with towels first to see if the concept worked before shelling out for perlite.  Sorry to sound stingy, but it is an expensive hobby!

Okay - I have the AC going and it is set to 22 Deg C (72F)
I took the cake out of the monotub that I had in before and tried to tie it up a bit so that the
grains underneath were not exposed to fallout. (the top part is cased in peat/calcium carbonate).
It has been colonising with daylight conditions for 15 days now.

I have misted it a couple of times - It does not seem like my tub is very humid - not a droplet of water on the walls.  Hmm no pins or humidity?

Am I doing something wrong? Are the holes drilled right?
Check it out - much appreciated.



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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: AgarStudent]
    #23751405 - 10/19/16 08:53 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Is that tray elevated off the paper towel?


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: PortabellaFella 1]
    #23751419 - 10/19/16 09:00 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

No not off the towel, but it is separated with the plastic that came out of the monotub.
Do these strains do a lot better in poo and colonising in spawn bags?  Looking at a tek by Bw86:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10925421/fpart/1/vc/1

The tek that I am using here is from the truffle tek by violet:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17910649/fpart/all/vc/1

Cheers


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: AgarStudent]
    #23751436 - 10/19/16 09:08 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

If you're growing sclerotia species follow stonesun's write-ups. The make everyone else's obsolete


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23751460 - 10/19/16 09:22 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Oh yeah, nice guide by Stonesun and he has covered a lot of important details.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/13431948/fpart/all/vc/1

Do you know if you will get a better yield with the 'Grains spawned to bulk substrate' (with horse poo) over fruiting the 'Cased grain substrate' - The latter with no horse poo and just a casing layer?


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: AgarStudent]
    #23751483 - 10/19/16 09:34 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

You'll get a better yield spawning to bulk over casing grains pretty much universally with Psilocybe species that grow indoors


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: AgarStudent]
    #23751596 - 10/19/16 10:23 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

AgarStudent said:
I haven't invested in the perlite, yet, as a bag of course grain costs $40 from the hydro store.
I thought I would try it with towels first to see if the concept worked before shelling out for perlite.  Sorry to sound stingy, but it is an expensive hobby!

Try a garden supply or hardware store they have it for under ten bucks a bag


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: Greenskybluegrass7]
    #23752169 - 10/19/16 02:23 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Greenskybluegrass7 said:
Quote:

AgarStudent said:
I haven't invested in the perlite, yet, as a bag of course grain costs $40 from the hydro store.
I thought I would try it with towels first to see if the concept worked before shelling out for perlite.  Sorry to sound stingy, but it is an expensive hobby!





Try a garden supply or hardware store they have it for under ten bucks a bag




Ftfy


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:amanita2: Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care :sporedrop:

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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: AgarStudent]
    #23752347 - 10/19/16 03:36 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

AgarStudent said:
I haven't invested in the perlite, yet, as a bag of course grain costs $40 from the hydro store.
I thought I would try it with towels first to see if the concept worked before shelling out for perlite.  Sorry to sound stingy, but it is an expensive hobby!




Home Depot has bigass bags of perlite for $20. Each bag is enough for 4" depth in 3 66qt shotgun chambers.

If you bought RRs videos the shotgun tek is in there. It is halfway through the "Getting Started With BRF Cakes" section. Which is like the first section. That segment is also on youtube.

Jump to 16:15


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RogerRabbit said:You need a bigger pressure cooker for this hobby. RR


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: Juiceh]
    #23752913 - 10/19/16 07:12 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks for the details guys :smile:

Would I be right to simply pressure cook some spawn bags filled with:

horse manure/straw/coir/vermiculite/gypsum (40/20/20/15/5).
for 2 hours at 15 PSI

..and then add rye berries colonised with chico nindo or galindoi using grain to grain transfer in front of the flow hood?

Or is the proper process of pasteurization going to give me significantly better resistance to contamination?

Cheers :smile:


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: AgarStudent]
    #23753099 - 10/19/16 08:12 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

How big of a spawn bag are you talking? I'd increase that time to 3 hours at 15psi for a 5+ lb bag. 2 hours would be ok if you have an AA sterilizer or AA PC modded with a sterilizer valve and can run 20psi.

If you can spawn a sterilized bag of substrate aseptically and seal it in front of a flow hood you don't need to worry about the contam resistance of pasteurized subs. I don't have data on it, but it's likely that PCing and cooking the sub more breaks things down and makes the nutrients more available for the mycelium.

I sterilize substrate and then spawn it in front of the hood all the time. It requires more equipment and skill, but it's totally doable. It's just not noob friendly or SAB friendly, though it can also be done in a SAB but I would not recomend it.


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Edited by Juiceh (10/19/16 10:37 PM)


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: Juiceh]
    #23753217 - 10/19/16 08:46 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Cheers Juiceh

In your last paragraph, you you mean you inoculate the substrate in front of the hood?

Just checked out RR's horse poo prep video too.  Awesome :thumbup:


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: AgarStudent]
    #23753516 - 10/19/16 10:37 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Yes. If I sterilize the substrate, I inoculate it in front of the flowhood.


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: Juiceh]
    #23754182 - 10/20/16 07:58 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

In RR's video on dung pasteurisation, it doesn't look like he is casing his grains and substrate in front of the flow hood? I guess if you are sterilising everything then it can't hurt, although I wonder how you do that with a bigger tub - say if you are doing it it a 50 or 60-quart mono tub.

I am guessing once the grains are colonised and the bulk substrate is pasteurized, then there is more margin for potential contaminants, due to the 'theory' of heat resistant bugs selectively killing off undesirable moulds.

I am not sure if the pasteurization method is based on solid science that I know of, but I would be happy to learn more about it?


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: AgarStudent]
    #23754223 - 10/20/16 08:16 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

You don't need to use a flow hood with pasteurized bulk substrate. The heat resistant bacteria protect it. You can inoculate in open air.

You must inoculate all sterilized substrates in aseptic conditions because they don't have that protection.

If you are sterilizing your substrate you don't use tubs. Once the bags of substrate have been spawned and colonized you trim the top off the bag and apply a casing layer after full colonization if you want. Then you put it in your greenhouse\fruiting chamber. Then you get this:



Many gourmet edibles are grown this way. If you can grow cubes this way you're ready to move on to many other gourmet species.


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: Juiceh]
    #23755691 - 10/20/16 06:20 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Okay thanks for clarifying :smile:

If you did sterilise your substrate in the PC (such as poo/verm) then it would follow that you would only be putting it in casing trays (not tubs), as it would be easy to put these trays in front of a hood, while you mix in some spawn and put over some alfoil and poke a few holes for air prior to colonisation.

A week or two later, you would then put the colonised cased tray in front of the flow hood to case it (say with peat/CaCo3), where it would thus be protected from fallout and random contaminants.

You could then take your cased and colonised tray into the humidity chamber, pretty confident that it has some resistance to contamination.

Is that right? :smile:  Cheers


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: AgarStudent]
    #23763436 - 10/23/16 07:43 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

AgarStudent said:
Okay thanks for clarifying :smile:

If you did sterilise your substrate in the PC (such as poo/verm) then it would follow that you would only be putting it in casing trays (not tubs), as it would be easy to put these trays in front of a hood, while you mix in some spawn and put over some alfoil and poke a few holes for air prior to colonisation.

A week or two later, you would then put the colonised cased tray in front of the flow hood to case it (say with peat/CaCo3), where it would thus be protected from fallout and random contaminants.

You could then take your cased and colonised tray into the humidity chamber, pretty confident that it has some resistance to contamination.

Is that right? :smile:  Cheers



No. Did you not see what I said about sterilizing in bags? Where did I ever say the substrate was removed from the bags. I said trim the bag and case once colonized, nothing about trays whatsoever. The pictures above show the bags.

If you sterilize in a bag you do not remove it from the bag. The only time you would consider doing that is ONLY after full colonization. Removing a sterilized substrate from its sterile container is asking for disaster. Dumping a bag of sterilized substrate and then mixing grain in by hand(not tumbled in a sealed bag) and then covering with foil and poking holes in it to let contams land on your sterilized(not pasteurized and protected) sub is a guaranteed failure. You do this with pasteurized sub, never sterilized sub.

In aseptic conditions(Flowhood or SAB) you spawn the sterilized bag of substrate with a jar of colonized grain then seal the bag. Tumble the bag and distribute the grains around the substrate without busting the bag. Once its fully colonized in a few weeks you take a razor and trim away the top of the bag so that there is about an inch or two above the substrate surface and apply your pasteurized casing. You do not have to apply the casing in front of the flowhood since the sterilized substrate is now fully colonized.


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: Juiceh]
    #23763506 - 10/23/16 08:20 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Ah okay,

Thanks for fleshing that out.
I have actually never pasteurised a substrate before.
My last success with cubes was based on using monotubs, in which I was using coir/verm 50/50 and basically sterilised everything except the grain.  I never had a contam issue with cubes.

I have heard that pasturised poo substrates are a bit tougher and are working on that one.
Hopefully someone can help me out with that - it is a different post.

I can see in your post that you have the spawn bags going - If you just cut the top off them, then your only fruiting that top bit.  How do you maximise your yield, by allowing the rest of your colonised substrate to fruit? Does the bit that fruits mean that you cut the bag a bit lower after each flush until all of the substrate is used up?

Cheers


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: AgarStudent]
    #23763606 - 10/23/16 09:15 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

It's no different than fruiting a mono where you're only fruiting the top. Except each bag is about 1/3 of a mono inoculated with 1 qt of grains. I get over 5 dry ounces from each bag in 2 flushes then toss them. Which is pretty damn good from 1qt of grains. The mushrooms will continue to come up through the casing layer after harvest. After a couple flushes if you really want to you can then remove the block easily from the bag after it's shrank a bit. Then dunk(and roll if you want) it and put back in fruiting conditions to get more fruits. It's way easier to dunk these blocks than a monotub substrate.


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: Juiceh]
    #23764794 - 10/23/16 05:10 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Okay.  What sized spawn bags are you using for that?


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: Juiceh]
    #23764851 - 10/23/16 05:36 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Juiceh said:







God damn! That is beautiful..


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: Space Coast Slayer]
    #23764893 - 10/23/16 05:56 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Either way that must be some massive fruiting chamber!


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: AgarStudent]
    #23765141 - 10/23/16 07:35 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

That's a green house my man


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: PortabellaFella 1]
    #23765472 - 10/23/16 09:55 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Ah okay.  That explains why you can have the bag upright ond not jabbing up against the lid of your sgfc!


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: AgarStudent]
    #23765690 - 10/23/16 11:52 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

AgarStudent said:
Okay.  What sized spawn bags are you using for that?



5" X 4" X 18" with a .2 µm filter

Quote:

AgarStudent said:
Ah okay.  That explains why you can have the bag upright ond not jabbing up against the lid of your sgfc!



These can be fruited in a SGFC with no issue. I give family members bags of gourmet species to fruit in their own SGFCs all the time.


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: AgarStudent]
    #23765887 - 10/24/16 03:09 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

AgarStudent said:
Ah okay,

Thanks for fleshing that out.
I have actually never pasteurised a substrate before.
My last success with cubes was based on using monotubs, in which I was using coir/verm 50/50 and basically sterilised everything except the grain.  I never had a contam issue with cubes.

I have heard that pasturised poo substrates are a bit tougher and are working on that one.
Hopefully someone can help me out with that - it is a different post.

I can see in your post that you have the spawn bags going - If you just cut the top off them, then your only fruiting that top bit.  How do you maximise your yield, by allowing the rest of your colonised substrate to fruit? Does the bit that fruits mean that you cut the bag a bit lower after each flush until all of the substrate is used up?

Cheers



You used half coir half verm as bulk? Why so much verm?


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: NDStepp84]
    #23766034 - 10/24/16 06:30 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Oh that was based on the following tek.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11916595

I figured that poo might be a superior growth medium, so I decided to follow RR's video guide on pasteurising poo bulk substrate and also casings.

With pan cyans and mexicana, I thought that poo was an evolutionary step forward, and might have more contamination resistance.  It is hard to get some shit that is properly composted though!

If you use your bags in the SGFC, do you just position it sideways and slit it along the length and apply a bit of casing?  It just seems like if you only fruit the top bit, then you throw away a bit of colonised material before it has all been used up?

It sounds like you have the small spawn bags, which are the same size as mine.
If I put one of these bags upright in my 60-quart SGFC, it would not fit.  The tub is less than 18" high.


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: AgarStudent]
    #23766041 - 10/24/16 06:35 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Don't use poo unless you're fucking with cyans.
Cubes will do just as well with coir. There's no need to be messing around with poo.. especially sterilizing it


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: AgarStudent]
    #23766062 - 10/24/16 06:57 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

AgarStudent said:
Oh that was based on the following tek.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11916595



That's not a 50/50 tek.

Quote:

AgarStudent said:
If you use your bags in the SGFC, do you just position it sideways and slit it along the length and apply a bit of casing?  It just seems like if you only fruit the top bit, then you throw away a bit of colonised material before it has all been used up?

It sounds like you have the small spawn bags, which are the same size as mine.
If I put one of these bags upright in my 60-quart SGFC, it would not fit.  The tub is less than 18" high.



They are "medium" bags. By the time you put the bag in your SGFC you have already trimed away the top of the bag, so they fit easily. I have also colonized the bags sideways by positioning the bags inside a home depot 3 gallon roughneck container with the filter up. Once they colonize in this position they will hold the shape of the bin and can be removed from the bin. Why are you so worried about only fruiting the top? It's no different than fruiting a monotub with a liner. You will get all your fruits through the casing layer like normal. As I said before if you want you can take the substrate out of the bag to continue fruiting after a couple flushes and it has shrank away from the bag.


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Tek [Re: Juiceh]
    #23766068 - 10/24/16 07:01 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah like CBK said don't mess with sterilized hpoo. Pasteurized is much better.


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