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OfflineSloppyJoseph
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Any ceramic light experts? -- Trying to cheat the system
    #23745703 - 10/17/16 02:04 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Hey guys, I don't come around often but thought I'd post this here to see if anyone has opinions. Repost from the growery.


  I'm looking to add a second 1 light flowering space. But I'm already running 2 1000w HID lights in a tiny apartment bedroom, so it's already becoming difficult to control temp swings, ventilation, etc.

Solution: no brainer for an LEC/CMH fixture to run as the 3rd light. Can totally self contain the second tent with minimal venting needed compared to HID.

Only problem is LECs are really overpriced. I'm running on fumes after setting up my other grow space, I can't afford a $500 120v 315W LEC by my deadline. And to properly line up my harvests I'm going to need to have this second space setup by the first week in November.


So my question.... I have someone on craigslist willing to sell me a glassless reflector and a 400W magnetic ballast for cheap... can I purchase a 315W Phillips cmh lamp and run that with the equipment even with some extra wattage flowing to the circuit? I've read that you can do this but I haven't found a solid answer to my exact situation. And then possibly down the line get a 1000W dimmable ballast set at 600W and run a 630W CMH lamp :shrug:

:leocheers:


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OfflineSloppyJoseph
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Re: Any ceramic light experts? -- Trying to cheat the system [Re: SloppyJoseph]
    #23745786 - 10/17/16 02:29 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

There's also a 400W CMH bulb option I just found out, which is great if it's an option because thats 85 more watts that I can use for free.

http://www.htgsupply.com/products/ge-400-watt-ceramic-light-bulb-cmh-lamp

That same site is selling CMH kits with a reflector, the 400W cmh lamp, and a 400W HPS ballast. I was under the impression that these bulbs needed MH ballasts but if either work that's cool too. But essentially, they are selling what I'm trying to do on my own, for not too much more expensive honestly all said and done. But I'll be able to do this using cash myself but I'm just saying... looking good?


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InvisibleEl Torcho
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Re: Any ceramic light experts? -- Trying to cheat the system [Re: SloppyJoseph]
    #23746070 - 10/17/16 03:31 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

CMH run only in magnetic HPS ballasts.

As far as I know the only options are 250/400w but I haven't looked into them in a bit. I did a grow with a 400 CMH once and it did a good job. Maybe a tad more leaf mixed in with the buds.


--------------------
"Well it sounds trivial, but the key insight is . . . . . you don't know shit"
~Dennis McKenna

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OfflineSloppyJoseph
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Re: Any ceramic light experts? -- Trying to cheat the system [Re: El Torcho]
    #23746111 - 10/17/16 03:45 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

El Torcho said:
CMH run only in magnetic HPS ballasts.

As far as I know the only options are 250/400w but I haven't looked into them in a bit. I did a grow with a 400 CMH once and it did a good job. Maybe a tad more leaf mixed in with the buds.




Well there's definitely 315s now as well, and the 630s I'm thinking are just double fixtures running 2 315s I just learned.

And just HPS huh? I gotta find where I saw that it was MH ballasts.


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InvisibleEl Torcho
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Re: Any ceramic light experts? -- Trying to cheat the system [Re: SloppyJoseph]
    #23746303 - 10/17/16 04:35 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Magnetic HPS. Won't work in the new electronic ones. The non-typical wattages are usually for European markets. I would just do a single 400w, or even double 400w, and not have to buy a non-typical ballast, and bulbs in the future should you decide to go back to HPS.

They were designed as a retrofit for HPS ballasts where a more white light is needed/preferred. Parking lots, gyms, warehouse type settings.... Weren't designed for growing, hence the limited wattage choices.


Edited by El Torcho (10/17/16 04:41 PM)


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OfflineSloppyJoseph
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Re: Any ceramic light experts? -- Trying to cheat the system [Re: El Torcho]
    #23746315 - 10/17/16 04:38 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

But as long as it's magnetic it can run on both kinds right? Mag MH or HPS?


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InvisibleEl Torcho
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Re: Any ceramic light experts? -- Trying to cheat the system [Re: SloppyJoseph]
    #23746341 - 10/17/16 04:42 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Magneic HPS can run CMH or HPS
Magnetic MH can run MH


--------------------
"Well it sounds trivial, but the key insight is . . . . . you don't know shit"
~Dennis McKenna

"There is more to human existence and to reality itself than science can ever give us access to."
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OfflineSloppyJoseph
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Re: Any ceramic light experts? -- Trying to cheat the system [Re: El Torcho]
    #23751805 - 10/19/16 11:55 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I was reading some misinformation then, but you are right magnetic HPS is the only way to go. I'm just worried this ballast is going to be noisy and hot but I'll keep it out of the tent and try and contain it somehow.

Now I'm worried that 400w isn't going to be a good spectrum for veg


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InvisibleEl Torcho
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Re: Any ceramic light experts? -- Trying to cheat the system [Re: SloppyJoseph]
    #23752011 - 10/19/16 01:28 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

The spectrum should be relatively uniform across different wattage. 400 is fine for veg, it's just not gonna have the light spread of a 1000w.


--------------------
"Well it sounds trivial, but the key insight is . . . . . you don't know shit"
~Dennis McKenna

"There is more to human existence and to reality itself than science can ever give us access to."
~His Holiness, The 14th Dalai Lama


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OfflineSloppyJoseph
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Re: Any ceramic light experts? -- Trying to cheat the system [Re: El Torcho]
    #23752058 - 10/19/16 01:49 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah I realize I'm gonna have to work with more of a 3x3 rather than a 4x4 area. I'm not trying to overload the area, just trying to have 2 plants in some 7 gal smart pots and grow them out as much as I can within that space


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OfflineSpanishfly
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Re: Any ceramic light experts? -- Trying to cheat the system [Re: El Torcho]
    #23752117 - 10/19/16 02:09 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

El Torcho said:
Magneic HPS can run CMH or HPS
Magnetic MH can run MH




But you can buy MH tubes that are compatible with a HPS ballast.  I know - I have one.


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InvisibleEl Torcho
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Re: Any ceramic light experts? -- Trying to cheat the system [Re: Spanishfly]
    #23752378 - 10/19/16 03:48 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

SloppyJoseph said:
Yeah I realize I'm gonna have to work with more of a 3x3 rather than a 4x4 area. I'm not trying to overload the area, just trying to have 2 plants in some 7 gal smart pots and grow them out as much as I can within that space





400 will be fine for 2 plants. Just remember that you're dealing with a 400w instead of a 1kW when you go set the distance from the reflector to the canopy.


Quote:

Spanishfly said:
Quote:

El Torcho said:
Magneic HPS can run CMH or HPS
Magnetic MH can run MH




But you can buy MH tubes that are compatible with a HPS ballast.  I know - I have one.





Yeah, they're called Ceramic Metal Halide bulbs. What we are discussing in this thread. They have a more red spectrum than a standard MH bulb, but still have the blue wavelengths, and produce a white light.


--------------------
"Well it sounds trivial, but the key insight is . . . . . you don't know shit"
~Dennis McKenna

"There is more to human existence and to reality itself than science can ever give us access to."
~His Holiness, The 14th Dalai Lama


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OfflineSpanishfly
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Re: Any ceramic light experts? -- Trying to cheat the system [Re: El Torcho]
    #23753107 - 10/19/16 08:15 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

El Torcho said:
Quote:

SloppyJoseph said:
Yeah I realize I'm gonna have to work with more of a 3x3 rather than a 4x4 area. I'm not trying to overload the area, just trying to have 2 plants in some 7 gal smart pots and grow them out as much as I can within that space





400 will be fine for 2 plants. Just remember that you're dealing with a 400w instead of a 1kW when you go set the distance from the reflector to the canopy.


Quote:

Spanishfly said:
Quote:

El Torcho said:
Magneic HPS can run CMH or HPS
Magnetic MH can run MH




But you can buy MH tubes that are compatible with a HPS ballast.  I know - I have one.





Yeah, they're called Ceramic Metal Halide bulbs. What we are discussing in this thread. They have a more red spectrum than a standard MH bulb, but still have the blue wavelengths, and produce a white light.




Not so, you are confused there.  Mine is a Metal Halide HIT (Sodium Ballast) - it is NOT a Ceramic Metal Halide - they are more expensive for the same wattage.  Means I can run this MH or a HPS on the same magnetic ballast.


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I am currently BANNED from using Private Messages - so can anyone who wants to contact me do it via my Journal thread.  Link is https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23831115

Maybe some mod or whatever might think this has now been long enough.


Edited by Spanishfly (10/19/16 08:17 PM)


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OfflineEywa_devotee
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Re: Any ceramic light experts? -- Trying to cheat the system [Re: Spanishfly]
    #23753309 - 10/19/16 09:20 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

CMH requires a pulse start ballast. It is basically sodium heavy MH chemistry in a sodium vapor arc tube. They normally run off a modified sodium ballast with a slightly bigger kick start capacitor. The CMH bulbs do run well on the cheapo ipower digital ballasts. The only issue is they generally come only in 400V at the max. You would be best off adding a 600W digital sodium/MH. You can get them to your grow for about 120 or so delivered to your door no questions asked.


--------------------
"Love one another." "To Love is to know me." "Love is the Law, Love under Will." "In Compassion, all sorrows end." Regardless of the Master, the message is the same- Choose love and you shall live, Choose Fear and you shall die. Help bring peace to this Earth: Love one another, and serve others before yourself.


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OfflineSpanishfly
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Re: Any ceramic light experts? -- Trying to cheat the system [Re: Eywa_devotee]
    #23753919 - 10/20/16 02:58 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Good technical info - thanks Eywa.  So a CMH would not actually work on my HPS ballast setup anyway - would appear to show that some voluble contributors here are DEAD wrong. 

And I bought all my stuff from an online lighting specialist - certainly not a rip-off grow shop.


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I am currently BANNED from using Private Messages - so can anyone who wants to contact me do it via my Journal thread.  Link is https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23831115

Maybe some mod or whatever might think this has now been long enough.


Edited by Spanishfly (10/20/16 06:43 AM)


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OfflineSpanishfly
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Re: Any ceramic light experts? -- Trying to cheat the system [Re: Spanishfly]
    #23754056 - 10/20/16 06:22 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Maybe I will now get a HPS to increase my lighting versatility.


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I am currently BANNED from using Private Messages - so can anyone who wants to contact me do it via my Journal thread.  Link is https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23831115

Maybe some mod or whatever might think this has now been long enough.


Edited by Spanishfly (10/20/16 06:42 AM)


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OfflineSpanishfly
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Re: Any ceramic light experts? -- Trying to cheat the system [Re: El Torcho]
    #23754064 - 10/20/16 06:29 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

El Torcho said:

NO they're called definitely NOT Ceramic Metal Halide bulbs. What we are NOT discussing in this thread.




Fixed.


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I am currently BANNED from using Private Messages - so can anyone who wants to contact me do it via my Journal thread.  Link is https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23831115

Maybe some mod or whatever might think this has now been long enough.


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InvisibleEl Torcho
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Re: Any ceramic light experts? -- Trying to cheat the system [Re: Spanishfly]
    #23754227 - 10/20/16 08:17 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Eywa_devotee said:
CMH requires a pulse start ballast. It is basically sodium heavy MH chemistry in a sodium vapor arc tube. They normally run off a modified sodium ballast with a slightly bigger kick start capacitor. The CMH bulbs do run well on the cheapo ipower digital ballasts. The only issue is they generally come only in 400V at the max. You would be best off adding a 600W digital sodium/MH. You can get them to your grow for about 120 or so delivered to your door no questions asked.




Apparently they have CMH for MH ballasts for about 5 years now . . .  I did mention it had been a few years since I really looked into the subject.

Quote:

Spanishfly said:
Quote:

El Torcho said:

NO they're called definitely NOT Ceramic Metal Halide bulbs. What we are NOT discussing in this thread.




Fixed.




I can't really help it if you decide to go off topic. :shrug:

Your switchable ballast can handle both MH and HPS bulbs. Standard ballasts can't.


--------------------
"Well it sounds trivial, but the key insight is . . . . . you don't know shit"
~Dennis McKenna

"There is more to human existence and to reality itself than science can ever give us access to."
~His Holiness, The 14th Dalai Lama


Edited by El Torcho (10/20/16 08:23 AM)


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InvisibleEl Torcho
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Re: Any ceramic light experts? -- Trying to cheat the system [Re: Spanishfly]
    #23754242 - 10/20/16 08:24 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Spanishfly said:
Good technical info - thanks Eywa.  So a CMH would not actually work on my HPS ballast setup anyway - would appear to show that some voluble contributors here are DEAD wrong. 

And I bought all my stuff from an online lighting specialist - certainly not a rip-off grow shop.





Lol. CMH bulbs work in hps ballasts.

Believe whatever you want.


--------------------
"Well it sounds trivial, but the key insight is . . . . . you don't know shit"
~Dennis McKenna

"There is more to human existence and to reality itself than science can ever give us access to."
~His Holiness, The 14th Dalai Lama


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OfflineSpanishfly
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Re: Any ceramic light experts? -- Trying to cheat the system [Re: El Torcho]
    #23754275 - 10/20/16 08:49 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I will just believe what is written on the stuff I have bought and that I know what has worked when I plug it in.

Not what some one else keeps contradicting what I, and others,  know to be the case. 

Not a lot of point in trying to talk sense otherwise.


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I am currently BANNED from using Private Messages - so can anyone who wants to contact me do it via my Journal thread.  Link is https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23831115

Maybe some mod or whatever might think this has now been long enough.


Edited by Spanishfly (10/20/16 09:15 AM)


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InvisibleEl Torcho
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Re: Any ceramic light experts? -- Trying to cheat the system [Re: Spanishfly]
    #23754436 - 10/20/16 10:28 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

:excusemeno:
Well, like I said, believe what you wanna believe. I know CMH will work in magnetic HPS ballasts.

And to be honest, I don't really care about that European stuff you got anyways. Have fun with your 327.648 watt lights.


:beatingtodeath:


--------------------
"Well it sounds trivial, but the key insight is . . . . . you don't know shit"
~Dennis McKenna

"There is more to human existence and to reality itself than science can ever give us access to."
~His Holiness, The 14th Dalai Lama


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OfflineSpanishfly
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Re: Any ceramic light experts? -- Trying to cheat the system [Re: El Torcho]
    #23754446 - 10/20/16 10:31 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Oh dear - is RACISM now creeping in here??  Time I left this thread or I will get rude and get banned.  See you all somewhere else.


--------------------
I am currently BANNED from using Private Messages - so can anyone who wants to contact me do it via my Journal thread.  Link is https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23831115

Maybe some mod or whatever might think this has now been long enough.


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InvisibleEl Torcho
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Re: Any ceramic light experts? -- Trying to cheat the system [Re: Spanishfly]
    #23754490 - 10/20/16 10:49 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Technically, xenophobia. But whatevs.

:goodluckwiththat2:


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OfflineSloppyJoseph
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Re: Any ceramic light experts? -- Trying to cheat the system [Re: El Torcho]
    #23754496 - 10/20/16 10:51 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Not to interrupt but this sub had a tendency to get a little testy in the subject of cannabis... So can we just try and stay Amon topic guys? Sorry.
Quote:

Eywa_devotee said:
CMH requires a pulse start ballast. It is basically sodium heavy MH chemistry in a sodium vapor arc tube. They normally run off a modified sodium ballast with a slightly bigger kick start capacitor. The CMH bulbs do run well on the cheapo ipower digital ballasts. The only issue is they generally come only in 400V at the max. You would be best off adding a 600W digital sodium/MH. You can get them to your grow for about 120 or so delivered to your door no questions asked.



This is the kind of good dialogue I was looking for thank you Eywa. Your knowledge is appreciated. If I could just ask you a few questions though..

Pulse start meaning magnetic I'm assuming? Or not necessarily but a magnetic HPS is what we are considering pulse start enough to run a CMH bulb.

Only going up to 400W isn't my issue I'm ok with 400w of ceramic under this light, actually my issue is more I can't find nearly anywhere that sells a 400w instead of a 315w. But adding any 600w HID would just require me to manage more heat than I intend to have to deal with in this second space, same room. Small apartment haha.

I have just bought a big bulky, but new and straight from box, white encased plug-n-play magnetic HPS/mh switchable ballast. Works tested before bought, seems like good quality it wasn't too noisy. And I bought a regular air cooled hood good for standard bulbs, no glass. Was wondering if you could confirm my setup works for a 400w CMH. The only place I've been able to really find one is the GE 400w on HTG supply and that for almost $100. Just wanna be sure before I purchase.

Pics when I can


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Re: Any ceramic light experts? -- Trying to cheat the system [Re: SloppyJoseph]
    #23755004 - 10/20/16 02:09 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Whenever Fly and Torcho get into a thread together :popcorn:
:nothingtoadd:


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Re: Any ceramic light experts? -- Trying to cheat the system [Re: the_r3dz]
    #23755025 - 10/20/16 02:17 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks for the input redz lol try and be a little more helpful next time damnit :cookiemonster: :poke:


Anyway here's my stuff. Someone gives me a credible "A-OK" I'm gonna go ahead and order the lamp. I'm just worried about the hood honestly, but if the socket on a 400w is as standard as it looks in pictures then I should be good.





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Re: Any ceramic light experts? -- Trying to cheat the system [Re: the_r3dz]
    #23764903 - 10/23/16 06:01 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

the_r3dz said:
Whenever Fly and Torcho get into a thread together :popcorn:
:nothingtoadd:





LOL - I can´t resist getting back in sometimes for a quick peek.  And I just love ET - let me give him a big kiss!!


--------------------
I am currently BANNED from using Private Messages - so can anyone who wants to contact me do it via my Journal thread.  Link is https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23831115

Maybe some mod or whatever might think this has now been long enough.


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Re: Any ceramic light experts? -- Trying to cheat the system [Re: Spanishfly]
    #23765382 - 10/23/16 09:10 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

It works great guys. This bulb is bright and beautiful at 400w.


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InvisibleEl Torcho
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Re: Any ceramic light experts? -- Trying to cheat the system [Re: SloppyJoseph]
    #23766240 - 10/24/16 09:16 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Spanishfly said:
would appear to show that some voluble contributors here are DEAD wrong. 






:goodday:


Quote:

SloppyJoseph said:
It works great guys. This bulb is bright and beautiful at 400w.





Good to hear.


--------------------
"Well it sounds trivial, but the key insight is . . . . . you don't know shit"
~Dennis McKenna

"There is more to human existence and to reality itself than science can ever give us access to."
~His Holiness, The 14th Dalai Lama


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