|
Mostly_Harmless
wyrd bið ful aræd



Registered: 05/12/09
Posts: 5,043
Loc: Perfidious Albion
|
Smoking too much marijuana increases the risk of broken bones
#23744200 - 10/16/16 11:11 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/smoking-too-much-marijuana-increases-risk-broken-bones-1586442
Quote:
Heavy marijuana users have lower bone density and risk developing osteoporosis later on.
Regular cannabis smokers are more at risk of having a low-bone mineral density and of sustaining fractures, scientists have said. Later in life, this could put them at greater risk of developing osteoporosis, a condition in which the bones become brittle and fragile.
Cannabis has been legalised for therapeutic purposes in 25 US states, including four which have also authorised the recreational use of the drug. It has now also been well established that marijuana has therapeutic benefits as it potentially alleviates the symptoms of several health conditions, including chronic pain and anxiety.
But recreational consumption, poses a number of problems and some health risks have been identified by scientists. These include problems with blood vessel function, mental health problems, fertility problems, and an increased probability of developing periodontal disease.
In the latest study, published in The American Journal of Medicine, researchers suggest poor bone health could be another negative consequence associated with heavy use of cannabis.
Heavy use and bone density
The team, from the University of Edinburgh, recruited 170 adults who smoked cannabis regularly for recreational purposes, and 114 cigarette smokers who didn't consume cannabis.
Regular cannabis smokers were then divided into two group depending on the quantity they used. Heavy use was defined as having taken the drug on more than 5,000 occasions in a lifetime. In contrast, "moderate users" had smoked cannabis 1,000 times on average.
The scientists had the participants go through a specialised X-ray scan – a DEXA scan – to measure their mineral bone density. They found that bone density of people in the group of heavy cannabis users was about 5% lower than that of cigarette smokers who did not use cannabis.
They then measured their body mass index (BMI), and the results revealed it was also lower than in non-users of cannabis. Finally, the scientists discovered that fracture rate was also increased in heavy cannabis users throughout their life, compared with moderate cannabis smokers and non-users. This is an indicator of poor bone health, and on the long term, increased likelihood of developing osteoporosis as they advance in age.
Lead researcher Professor Stuart Ralston commented: "Our research has shown that heavy users of cannabis have quite a large reduction in bone density compared with non-users and there is a real concern that this may put them at increased risk of developing osteoporosis and fractures later in life."
Limits to this study include the fact that people self-reported their consumption habits. From one person to another, quantities smoked at one time may also vary so it is not always easy to make precise comparisons between participants.
|
Onlylivingboy
Stranger
Registered: 10/17/16
Posts: 58
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
|
Re: Smoking too much marijuana increases the risk of broken bones [Re: Mostly_Harmless]
#23744348 - 10/17/16 01:47 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Probably not though. MMA fighters love the stuff for example. Helps with the healing and pain of injury. This article is a great example of something people need to avoid reading more about, because it is demonstrably false.
Not even close to being real science. Lifestyles made worse by pot smoking can weaken your bones over half-a lifetime depending on the person for sure. We all know that though. We also can bother to know how pot does not make bones weak.
because lets face it and get real for a second.
Edited by Onlylivingboy (10/17/16 02:08 AM)
|
Coolwhip GA
Stranger
Registered: 03/19/09
Posts: 148
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
|
Re: Smoking too much marijuana increases the risk of broken bones [Re: Onlylivingboy]
#23744592 - 10/17/16 06:17 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I didn't click on any of the links, but if it is the "scientists" claiming marijuana causes lower bone density then I have no faith the study was even done correctly, hopefully it's just the journalist.(I rather believe in the scientific communities fastidiousness than care if chronic, heavy marijuana use affects bone density; been smoking heavy my whole life and have never broken a single bone despite plenty of opportunities.)
correlation != causation
You can't claim is causes it without heavily controlled experiments, or/and discovering a mechanism of action.
The lower BMI difference alone could be responsible for lower bone density, or chronic intoxication responsible for higher fracture rates, who knows if they controlled and adjusted for these factors, or any others such as diet, excercise, sleep hygiene, genetics, occupation, poly-drug use, past tobacco use, etc, etc, etc.
|
Mostly_Harmless
wyrd bið ful aræd



Registered: 05/12/09
Posts: 5,043
Loc: Perfidious Albion
|
Re: Smoking too much marijuana increases the risk of broken bones [Re: Coolwhip GA]
#23744594 - 10/17/16 06:21 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Here is the abstract from the AMJ article.
http://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343%2816%2930851-8/abstract
Quote:
Purpose
To investigate possible associations between recreational cannabis use and bone health in humans.
Methods
Cross-sectional study of individuals recruited from primary care in the UK between 2011 and 2013. Cases were regular smokers of cannabis divided into moderate (n = 56) and heavy user (n = 144) subgroups depending on whether they reported fewer or more than 5000 cannabis smoking episodes during their lifetime. Controls comprised 114 cigarette smokers.
Results
Heavy cannabis users had lower total hip bone mineral density (mean ± SD Z-score: −0.20 ± 0.9 vs +0.2 ± 0.9, P < .0005), lower spine bone mineral density (−0.5 ± 1.2 vs 0.0 ± 1.2, P < .0005), and lower body mass index (BMI; 26.5 ± 6.0 vs 29.0 ± 7.0, P = .01) than controls. Fracture rate was also increased in heavy users (rate ratio = 2.17; 95% confidence interval, 1.59-2.95; P < .001). When compared with controls, serum cross-linked C-telopeptide of type 1 collagen (CTX) concentrations were raised in heavy cannabis users (0.3 ± 0.1 vs 0.2 ± 0.1 pg/mL, P = .045), as were serum N-terminal propeptide of type 1 procollagen (P1NP) concentrations (47.1 ± 19.2 vs 41.2 ± 17.8 pg/mL, P = .01). Serum total 25-hydroxyvitamin D concentrations were reduced in heavy users compared with controls (25.3 ± 16.8 vs 36.9 ± 26.7 nmol/L, P = .002). Multiple regression analysis revealed that heavy cannabis use was an independent predictor of spine bone mineral density, accounting for 5.4% of the variance (P = .035), and total hip bone mineral density, accounting for 5.8% of the variance (P = .001), but mediation analysis suggested that the effect on spine bone mineral density was indirect and mediated through low body mass index.
Conclusions
Heavy cannabis use is associated with low bone mineral density, low BMI, high bone turnover, and an increased risk of fracture. Heavy cannabis use negatively impacts on bone health both directly and indirectly through an effect on BMI.
|
Morel Guy
Stranger


Registered: 01/23/13
Posts: 15,577
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: Smoking too much marijuana increases the risk of broken bones [Re: Mostly_Harmless]
#23744709 - 10/17/16 07:37 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I have never ever broken a bone.
-------------------- "in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur" In filth it will be found in dung it will be found
|
theonlysun81
Long Time Lurker, Recent Member



Registered: 05/11/12
Posts: 1,712
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
|
Re: Smoking too much marijuana increases the risk of broken bones [Re: Morel Guy]
#23745062 - 10/17/16 10:10 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
wasn't there a study that was published recently that demonstrated the exact fucking opposite? that smoking weed after breaking a bone actually causes it to heal stronger?
--------------------
|
candry
Stranger

Registered: 09/29/15
Posts: 102
Loc: WA, USA
|
Re: Smoking too much marijuana increases the risk of broken bones [Re: theonlysun81] 2
#23745228 - 10/17/16 11:05 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I like my ganj as much as the next guy - I say after my fifth toke of the day and it's not even 10 am - but whether you personally have broken any bones is exactly zero evidence one way or another.
While we're at it, can we please let go of this dogma that it's the most benign thing on the whole earth? Ain't nothing in this world that's totally harmless.
|
WackyWizard
Stranger

Registered: 10/08/16
Posts: 17
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
|
Re: Smoking too much marijuana increases the risk of broken bones [Re: candry]
#23745466 - 10/17/16 12:33 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Garbage study. I hope tax dollars didn't fund this. So many variables involved that weren't taken into account. Show me the the effects of marijuana on mice who are made to live comparable lives to those of the control group and then we'll talk.
|
clockwork228
Perpetual Student



Registered: 01/25/11
Posts: 196
|
Re: Smoking too much marijuana increases the risk of broken bones [Re: Coolwhip GA]
#23745522 - 10/17/16 12:52 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Onlylivingboy said: Probably not though. MMA fighters love the stuff for example. Helps with the healing and pain of injury. This article is a great example of something people need to avoid reading more about, because it is demonstrably false.
Not even close to being real science. Lifestyles made worse by pot smoking can weaken your bones over half-a lifetime depending on the person for sure. We all know that though. We also can bother to know how pot does not make bones weak.
because lets face it and get real for a second.
Could you elaborate as to why you don't believe this is real science? The principal investigator graduated from one of the biggest medical schools in Europe and specializes in bone disease research so I'm confused as to what has you convinced that the study is false.
Quote:
Coolwhip GA said: I didn't click on any of the links, but if it is the "scientists" claiming marijuana causes lower bone density then I have no faith the study was even done correctly, hopefully it's just the journalist.(I rather believe in the scientific communities fastidiousness than care if chronic, heavy marijuana use affects bone density; been smoking heavy my whole life and have never broken a single bone despite plenty of opportunities.)
correlation != causation
You can't claim is causes it without heavily controlled experiments, or/and discovering a mechanism of action.
The lower BMI difference alone could be responsible for lower bone density, or chronic intoxication responsible for higher fracture rates, who knows if they controlled and adjusted for these factors, or any others such as diet, excercise, sleep hygiene, genetics, occupation, poly-drug use, past tobacco use, etc, etc, etc.
No causative claims were made in the study. BMI was addressed in the abstract that was quoted by Mostly_Harmless.
I like to burn as much as the next person but I think it's important to be open to the fact that we really don't fully understand all of the ways that smoked cannabis interacts with the body yet. I would like to believe that cannabis has no negative impact on bone density but I don't know and could be wrong. If it does, personally, that is something I would want to know.
Edit: Here's a link to the full study if anyone is interested.
-------------------- Om Mani Padme Hum Om Ah Hum Vajra Guru Padma Siddhi Hum
Edited by clockwork228 (10/17/16 01:23 PM)
|
qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 6 hours, 40 minutes
|
Re: Smoking too much marijuana increases the risk of broken bones [Re: clockwork228]
#23745920 - 10/17/16 02:58 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
clockwork228 said:
Quote:
Onlylivingboy said: Probably not though. MMA fighters love the stuff for example. Helps with the healing and pain of injury. This article is a great example of something people need to avoid reading more about, because it is demonstrably false.
Not even close to being real science. Lifestyles made worse by pot smoking can weaken your bones over half-a lifetime depending on the person for sure. We all know that though. We also can bother to know how pot does not make bones weak.
because lets face it and get real for a second.
Could you elaborate as to why you don't believe this is real science? The principal investigator graduated from one of the biggest medical schools in Europe and specializes in bone disease research so I'm confused as to what has you convinced that the study is false.
Quote:
Coolwhip GA said: I didn't click on any of the links, but if it is the "scientists" claiming marijuana causes lower bone density then I have no faith the study was even done correctly, hopefully it's just the journalist.(I rather believe in the scientific communities fastidiousness than care if chronic, heavy marijuana use affects bone density; been smoking heavy my whole life and have never broken a single bone despite plenty of opportunities.)
correlation != causation
You can't claim is causes it without heavily controlled experiments, or/and discovering a mechanism of action.
The lower BMI difference alone could be responsible for lower bone density, or chronic intoxication responsible for higher fracture rates, who knows if they controlled and adjusted for these factors, or any others such as diet, excercise, sleep hygiene, genetics, occupation, poly-drug use, past tobacco use, etc, etc, etc.
No causative claims were made in the study. BMI was addressed in the abstract that was quoted by Mostly_Harmless.
I like to burn as much as the next person but I think it's important to be open to the fact that we really don't fully understand all of the ways that smoked cannabis interacts with the body yet. I would like to believe that cannabis has no negative impact on bone density but I don't know and could be wrong. If it does, personally, that is something I would want to know.
Edit: Here's a link to the full study if anyone is interested.
They need to prove the mechanism behind their study, what chemical is causing lower bone destiny and how it does it, this is nothing more than a speculation with NO evidence.
|
Yukon Cornelius
Bumble Wrangler



Registered: 09/01/13
Posts: 1,348
Loc: Peppermint Mines
Last seen: 10 hours, 10 minutes
|
Re: Smoking too much marijuana increases the risk of broken bones [Re: qman]
#23745990 - 10/17/16 03:11 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
The study also assumes BMI is an accurate metric to determine skeletal system health.
BMI doesn't even account for muscle to fat ratios, it's almost as outdated as the IQ test.
-------------------- "I didn't know chicken's wore suspenders" - Towelie
|
durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 16,693
Loc: Raccoon City
|
Re: Smoking too much marijuana increases the risk of broken bones [Re: Yukon Cornelius]
#23746327 - 10/17/16 04:40 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Maybe, I don't have an addictive personality, but I don't see a good reason to take repeated, heroic doses of anything, without being under chronic stress. Is it a sickly person, irrespective of the drug use.
|
clockwork228
Perpetual Student



Registered: 01/25/11
Posts: 196
|
Re: Smoking too much marijuana increases the risk of broken bones [Re: qman]
#23746576 - 10/17/16 05:57 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
Yukon Cornelius said: The study also assumes BMI is an accurate metric to determine skeletal system health.
BMI doesn't even account for muscle to fat ratios, it's almost as outdated as the IQ test.
The study says "Bone density was measured by dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry...", so they measured bone density in order to determine skeletal system health. Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Coolwhip GA said: They need to prove the mechanism behind their study, what chemical is causing lower bone destiny and how it does it, this is nothing more than a speculation with NO evidence.
I think this was just a correlational study, they aren't claiming any causality.
-------------------- Om Mani Padme Hum Om Ah Hum Vajra Guru Padma Siddhi Hum
|
WackyWizard
Stranger

Registered: 10/08/16
Posts: 17
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
|
Re: Smoking too much marijuana increases the risk of broken bones [Re: clockwork228]
#23747769 - 10/18/16 01:22 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
clockwork228 said:
Quote:
Onlylivingboy said: Probably not though. MMA fighters love the stuff for example. Helps with the healing and pain of injury. This article is a great example of something people need to avoid reading more about, because it is demonstrably false.
Not even close to being real science. Lifestyles made worse by pot smoking can weaken your bones over half-a lifetime depending on the person for sure. We all know that though. We also can bother to know how pot does not make bones weak.
because lets face it and get real for a second.
Could you elaborate as to why you don't believe this is real science? The principal investigator graduated from one of the biggest medical schools in Europe and specializes in bone disease research so I'm confused as to what has you convinced that the study is false.
Quote:
Coolwhip GA said: I didn't click on any of the links, but if it is the "scientists" claiming marijuana causes lower bone density then I have no faith the study was even done correctly, hopefully it's just the journalist.(I rather believe in the scientific communities fastidiousness than care if chronic, heavy marijuana use affects bone density; been smoking heavy my whole life and have never broken a single bone despite plenty of opportunities.)
correlation != causation
You can't claim is causes it without heavily controlled experiments, or/and discovering a mechanism of action.
The lower BMI difference alone could be responsible for lower bone density, or chronic intoxication responsible for higher fracture rates, who knows if they controlled and adjusted for these factors, or any others such as diet, excercise, sleep hygiene, genetics, occupation, poly-drug use, past tobacco use, etc, etc, etc.
No causative claims were made in the study. BMI was addressed in the abstract that was quoted by Mostly_Harmless.
I like to burn as much as the next person but I think it's important to be open to the fact that we really don't fully understand all of the ways that smoked cannabis interacts with the body yet. I would like to believe that cannabis has no negative impact on bone density but I don't know and could be wrong. If it does, personally, that is something I would want to know.
Edit: Here's a link to the full study if anyone is interested.
I don't even smoke but this study (or, at least the article) is poor. Only 157 participants and they claim "Heavy marijuana users have lower bone density".
The fact they even presented their findings the way they did is biased against the legalization movement. Scientists know they don't produce studies in a vacuum, and they should have more tact than to claim anything beyond that their findings demand further research.
|
Ran-D



Registered: 12/19/10
Posts: 16,313
|
Re: Smoking too much marijuana increases the risk of broken bones [Re: Mostly_Harmless]
#23748065 - 10/18/16 07:02 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Are these the same people who convinced us that cow milk was good for our bones?
|
clockwork228
Perpetual Student



Registered: 01/25/11
Posts: 196
|
Re: Smoking too much marijuana increases the risk of broken bones [Re: WackyWizard]
#23749816 - 10/18/16 06:46 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
WackyWizard said:
Quote:
clockwork228 said:
Quote:
Onlylivingboy said: Probably not though. MMA fighters love the stuff for example. Helps with the healing and pain of injury. This article is a great example of something people need to avoid reading more about, because it is demonstrably false.
Not even close to being real science. Lifestyles made worse by pot smoking can weaken your bones over half-a lifetime depending on the person for sure. We all know that though. We also can bother to know how pot does not make bones weak.
because lets face it and get real for a second.
Could you elaborate as to why you don't believe this is real science? The principal investigator graduated from one of the biggest medical schools in Europe and specializes in bone disease research so I'm confused as to what has you convinced that the study is false.
Quote:
Coolwhip GA said: I didn't click on any of the links, but if it is the "scientists" claiming marijuana causes lower bone density then I have no faith the study was even done correctly, hopefully it's just the journalist.(I rather believe in the scientific communities fastidiousness than care if chronic, heavy marijuana use affects bone density; been smoking heavy my whole life and have never broken a single bone despite plenty of opportunities.)
correlation != causation
You can't claim is causes it without heavily controlled experiments, or/and discovering a mechanism of action.
The lower BMI difference alone could be responsible for lower bone density, or chronic intoxication responsible for higher fracture rates, who knows if they controlled and adjusted for these factors, or any others such as diet, excercise, sleep hygiene, genetics, occupation, poly-drug use, past tobacco use, etc, etc, etc.
No causative claims were made in the study. BMI was addressed in the abstract that was quoted by Mostly_Harmless.
I like to burn as much as the next person but I think it's important to be open to the fact that we really don't fully understand all of the ways that smoked cannabis interacts with the body yet. I would like to believe that cannabis has no negative impact on bone density but I don't know and could be wrong. If it does, personally, that is something I would want to know.
Edit: Here's a link to the full study if anyone is interested.
I don't even smoke but this study (or, at least the article) is poor. Only 157 participants and they claim "Heavy marijuana users have lower bone density".
The fact they even presented their findings the way they did is biased against the legalization movement. Scientists know they don't produce studies in a vacuum, and they should have more tact than to claim anything beyond that their findings demand further research.
How do you figure this is biased against legalization? That idea is counter-intuitive when you do a little digging and find that one of the researchers is the "inventor of a patent concerning the use of cannabinoid receptor ligands as treatments for osteoporosis and other bone diseases." If anything, said researcher stood to benefit from findings showing that cannabis users have HIGHER bone density, or at least not lower bone density.
Within the context of the study, heavy marijuana use as defined as having consumed cannabis 5,000 times in the lifetime of the individual, was statistically significantly correlated with lower bone density in several areas of the body. The study is actually pretty straightforward. The researchers aren't actually claiming anything beyond what they found and even concluded by saying: "While further research will be required to investigate the mechanisms underlying the association we observed the findings reported here have important clinical implications in identifying heavy cannabis use as potential cause of low bone mineral density, increased bone turnover and predisposition to fractures."
-------------------- Om Mani Padme Hum Om Ah Hum Vajra Guru Padma Siddhi Hum
|
WackyWizard
Stranger

Registered: 10/08/16
Posts: 17
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
|
Re: Smoking too much marijuana increases the risk of broken bones [Re: clockwork228]
#23750445 - 10/18/16 09:49 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
clockwork228 said:
Quote:
WackyWizard said:
Quote:
clockwork228 said:
Quote:
Onlylivingboy said: Probably not though. MMA fighters love the stuff for example. Helps with the healing and pain of injury. This article is a great example of something people need to avoid reading more about, because it is demonstrably false.
Not even close to being real science. Lifestyles made worse by pot smoking can weaken your bones over half-a lifetime depending on the person for sure. We all know that though. We also can bother to know how pot does not make bones weak.
because lets face it and get real for a second.
Could you elaborate as to why you don't believe this is real science? The principal investigator graduated from one of the biggest medical schools in Europe and specializes in bone disease research so I'm confused as to what has you convinced that the study is false.
Quote:
Coolwhip GA said: I didn't click on any of the links, but if it is the "scientists" claiming marijuana causes lower bone density then I have no faith the study was even done correctly, hopefully it's just the journalist.(I rather believe in the scientific communities fastidiousness than care if chronic, heavy marijuana use affects bone density; been smoking heavy my whole life and have never broken a single bone despite plenty of opportunities.)
correlation != causation
You can't claim is causes it without heavily controlled experiments, or/and discovering a mechanism of action.
The lower BMI difference alone could be responsible for lower bone density, or chronic intoxication responsible for higher fracture rates, who knows if they controlled and adjusted for these factors, or any others such as diet, excercise, sleep hygiene, genetics, occupation, poly-drug use, past tobacco use, etc, etc, etc.
No causative claims were made in the study. BMI was addressed in the abstract that was quoted by Mostly_Harmless.
I like to burn as much as the next person but I think it's important to be open to the fact that we really don't fully understand all of the ways that smoked cannabis interacts with the body yet. I would like to believe that cannabis has no negative impact on bone density but I don't know and could be wrong. If it does, personally, that is something I would want to know.
Edit: Here's a link to the full study if anyone is interested.
I don't even smoke but this study (or, at least the article) is poor. Only 157 participants and they claim "Heavy marijuana users have lower bone density".
The fact they even presented their findings the way they did is biased against the legalization movement. Scientists know they don't produce studies in a vacuum, and they should have more tact than to claim anything beyond that their findings demand further research.
How do you figure this is biased against legalization? That idea is counter-intuitive when you do a little digging and find that one of the researchers is the "inventor of a patent concerning the use of cannabinoid receptor ligands as treatments for osteoporosis and other bone diseases." If anything, said researcher stood to benefit from findings showing that cannabis users have HIGHER bone density, or at least not lower bone density.
Within the context of the study, heavy marijuana use as defined as having consumed cannabis 5,000 times in the lifetime of the individual, was statistically significantly correlated with lower bone density in several areas of the body. The study is actually pretty straightforward. The researchers aren't actually claiming anything beyond what they found and even concluded by saying: "While further research will be required to investigate the mechanisms underlying the association we observed the findings reported here have important clinical implications in identifying heavy cannabis use as potential cause of low bone mineral density, increased bone turnover and predisposition to fractures."
As I said in my post, if not the scientific study then the article is biased. The quotations taken from the study are clearly skewed against legalization, and, frankly, those scientists shouldn't have worded their study in such a way that those quotes could even be pulled from it.
|
Fractal420
Psycellium



Registered: 06/21/13
Posts: 5,913
Last seen: 8 months, 16 days
|
Re: Smoking too much marijuana increases the risk of broken bones [Re: WackyWizard]
#23751134 - 10/19/16 04:54 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I think there is nothing apparently wrong with the study. Its just that sometimes, we have to admit that cannabis might not be a cure-all for *everything* with no possible adverse effects. I feel like there are alot of bs studies BUT whenever a real study comes along with anything but great 420 news, people here reject it, like its automatically biased or false or something.i LOVE cannabis. Use it all the time. Probably does more good than it does harm but, nothing is perfect.
-------------------- Dreaming of That face again. It's bright and blue and shimmering. Grinning wide And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes. Prying open MY third eye
|
|