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Psilosopherr
A psilly goose



Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 12,278
Last seen: 1 month, 10 days
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Anybody try the ratio method with WBS? aka, no soak no simmer grain prep
#23741899 - 10/16/16 09:53 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Here is The Ratio Method with millet. Was just wondering if anybody happened to know a good ratio to use for standard WBS or other grains.
Can't believe I've never seen a tek like this, always hated waiting overnight for grains to soak, and the messes that can be created when simmering/straining/drying.
Seems like a great noob method.
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Terpfreak
❀Terpenes❀



Registered: 07/08/16
Posts: 1,065
Loc: Land Of Ooo
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
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Re: Anybody try the ratio method with WBS? aka, no soak no simmer grain prep [Re: Psilosopherr]
#23741946 - 10/16/16 10:06 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Isn't the point of soaking and simmering to kill anything that has been made vulnerable by the soak?
Skipping that is okay? I don't doubt you, just confused.
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Psilosopherr
A psilly goose



Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 12,278
Last seen: 1 month, 10 days
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Re: Anybody try the ratio method with WBS? aka, no soak no simmer grain prep [Re: Terpfreak]
#23741964 - 10/16/16 10:12 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm brand new to the idea but people seem to have success with it. I thought the same thing as you.
The soaking/simmering to kill endospores seems like it may have been made up to explain methodology
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: Anybody try the ratio method with WBS? aka, no soak no simmer grain prep [Re: Psilosopherr]
#23741970 - 10/16/16 10:14 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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The soaking is to germinate bacterial endospores so that they can be more easily killed during the pc cycle. The simmering is to add moisture.
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: Anybody try the ratio method with WBS? aka, no soak no simmer grain prep [Re: azur]
#23741981 - 10/16/16 10:17 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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And while some grains may be low in endospore count, others may be high. You won't know until you get fucked in the ass. Therefore, I always recommend soaking as a precaution and I always will soak. You might get away without soaking 1,000 times, but the one time you didn't soak and should have, you'll be wishing you did.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 9 days
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Re: Anybody try the ratio method with WBS? aka, no soak no simmer grain prep [Re: azur] 2
#23741996 - 10/16/16 10:23 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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We soak to hydrate...that's it.
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: Anybody try the ratio method with WBS? aka, no soak no simmer grain prep [Re: cronicr]
#23742012 - 10/16/16 10:29 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Then why do you simmer cron? Why does rr say soaking for endospores in his videos? Why does Paul stamets say the same?
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ChristaphonZ


Registered: 09/10/16
Posts: 19
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Anybody try the ratio method with WBS? aka, no soak no simmer grain prep [Re: azur]
#23742066 - 10/16/16 10:48 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Soak to germinate endospores. Simmer to get right amount of water content. PC to kill all germinated spores.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Anybody try the ratio method with WBS? aka, no soak no simmer grain prep [Re: azur] 2
#23742071 - 10/16/16 10:50 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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staments is a well known say whatever he feels like, half of everything he's ever spoke is bullshit. not to detract from his work but... the guy is fucking looney.
and RR has been wrong many times. he isn't a biologist.
Bacteria increases their populations. soaking only makes more endospores.
yes endospores form more rapidly when nutrition depletes or conditions are harsh. but that doesn't mean they don't form at all times. some subset of the bacterial population is forming spores at any given time.
also the pressure cooker kills endospores, there's no need to germinate them, or get them ready for pressure cooking... that's some old hand old info. it is true that a higher CFU load is harder to sterilize but the endospores we have in grains are easily destroyed by a pressure cooker
they validate pressurecookers/autoclaves with much harder more resilient endospores than the ones found in grain

this is out of beer wort still full of nutrition, YET bacteria still from endospores. if conditions were to get harsh you would see something like 99.9% of the bacteria forming spores. but before conditions ever get harsh a large portion still forms spores, the bacteria are always trying to increase their survival and numbers, they've been around way longer than anything else on the planet. their survival strategy doesn't mandate they only make more endospores when things are really shitty, no they make endospores all the fucking time. and soaking only makes more of them than you start with.
here's some more clostridium from barely grains
 some forming spores, some spores already present, some of the clostridium rods just chilling out.
the population of spores will always increase under any conditions until you get to the conditions where killing starts.
so soak away all you want because you heard RR say but you're only making your CFUs higher. unless your soak water is over 170F that is
Edited by bodhisatta (10/16/16 10:57 AM)
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: Anybody try the ratio method with WBS? aka, no soak no simmer grain prep [Re: bodhisatta]
#23742104 - 10/16/16 11:00 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I don't want to butt heads. Too much real stuff to do. Here is an interesting thread, which you are part of. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22612598/fpart/all
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 9 days
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Re: Anybody try the ratio method with WBS? aka, no soak no simmer grain prep [Re: azur]
#23742133 - 10/16/16 11:08 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I don't simmer AZ. ..but reality is endospores simply need to be hydrated not germinated.
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 9 days
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Re: Anybody try the ratio method with WBS? aka, no soak no simmer grain prep [Re: cronicr]
#23742165 - 10/16/16 11:18 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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People started soaking grain because the old measuring method caused alot of busted grains..simmering will serve two purposes one being to up the moisture content two being to steam dry...once an endospores germinated it's not an endospores and if we simply germinated endospores to make it easy to kill we would simply be able to steam grains like pf jars.
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Terpfreak
❀Terpenes❀



Registered: 07/08/16
Posts: 1,065
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Re: Anybody try the ratio method with WBS? aka, no soak no simmer grain prep [Re: cronicr]
#23742182 - 10/16/16 11:23 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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So only simmer no soak? Thanks to everyone who shared info
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 9 days
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Re: Anybody try the ratio method with WBS? aka, no soak no simmer grain prep [Re: Terpfreak]
#23742197 - 10/16/16 11:25 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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With small grains like millet and wbs I only soak no simmer...or I use fooman method so one or the other..that wasn't much help was it RR changed his tune about endospores years ago btw.
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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ChristaphonZ


Registered: 09/10/16
Posts: 19
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Anybody try the ratio method with WBS? aka, no soak no simmer grain prep [Re: cronicr]
#23742198 - 10/16/16 11:26 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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When I soak it is only 12 hours and I soak coffee and gypsum into the grain. I feed our cattle in the winter sprouted oats or barely. We soak before we put them in trays as they sprout a lot quicker. (5 days from sprout to feed) Soaking adds a lot of water or in my case coffee and gypsum.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 9 days
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Re: Anybody try the ratio method with WBS? aka, no soak no simmer grain prep [Re: ChristaphonZ]
#23742203 - 10/16/16 11:27 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I don't remember the math off the top of my head but i think around 40% moisture by weight is what ya want..dont take my word on that though
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: Anybody try the ratio method with WBS? aka, no soak no simmer grain prep [Re: cronicr]
#23742237 - 10/16/16 11:41 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I have the numbers around here somewhere. Let me look
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
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Re: Anybody try the ratio method with WBS? aka, no soak no simmer grain prep [Re: cronicr]
#23742242 - 10/16/16 11:43 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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whenever i prep WBS(i only use WBS) i just soak the shit for 24hrs.
ive read the no soak no simmer stuff but whats the rush?
a batch of jars in my pc takes 2ish hours to cook. and another 4-6 to cool. so in a normal day of being awake thats like 2 batches a day at most.
im not hating on the 'time saving' so much as i do not understand the point to no soak/no simmer.
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Terpfreak
❀Terpenes❀



Registered: 07/08/16
Posts: 1,065
Loc: Land Of Ooo
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
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Re: Anybody try the ratio method with WBS? aka, no soak no simmer grain prep [Re: mushboy]
#23742266 - 10/16/16 11:50 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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For me personally, I have chronic pain, so anything I don't have to do as a 110 pound chick is a godsend. (Straining the giant colanders fucking hurts).
But i agree, If soaking and simmering doesn't create problems, might as well keep doing it.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 9 days
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Re: Anybody try the ratio method with WBS? aka, no soak no simmer grain prep [Re: Terpfreak]
#23742274 - 10/16/16 11:53 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Soaking and simmering wbs can be problematic...be careful.
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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