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endogenous
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salvia - tpe?
#23741438 - 10/16/16 03:54 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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"Part of what sets salvia apart is its peculiar chemistry. While salvinorin A—the psychotropic molecule in Salvia divinorum—binds only to the dopamine-reducing kappa-opioid receptor, most psychedelics increase serotonin by binding to the serotonin 5-HT2A receptor, among others. " http://www.vice.com/read/why-is-salvia-so-uniquely-terrifying-1015
-------------------- The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.
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endogenous
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Quote:
Asante said:
Quote:
nooneman said: TPE should be confined to 5HT2A agonists. ODD is there for drugs which are not 5HT2A agonists, and ODD is a great forum.
Datura is not a 5HT2A agonist.
My thought exactly.
"Psychedelic is defined by 5HT2A action. If it works by anoither means or is significantly more toxic than mescaline, it doesnt belong there.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/newreply.php?Cat=0&Board=7&Number=23294847&page=2&what=showflat&fpart=1&vc=1&q=1&replystamp=1476689888
-------------------- The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.
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DustBunny


Registered: 08/20/14
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Cannabis is not a 5-HT2A agonist, either. Plenty of 5-HT2A agonists belong in ODD, those that aren't time-tested and potentially-proven dangerous. Dosage advice for the chems currently discussed in TPE is not nearly as much of a liability. It's the admin's call if they wish to change what belongs where, but salvia is not the only exception, and strictly "5-HT2A agonists only" would not work because of many other serotonergic RC's.
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endogenous
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True. However, salvia seems more akin to datura than to any Entheogen in its effect. It also has a reputation of causing harm. In fact, unlike datura, it produces such bad effects that most people don't seem to need to be warned about it.
I would think it shouldn't be included in TPE.
-------------------- The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.
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Amanita86
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Yeah it should. Final answer.
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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endogenous
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Are you thinking it should be included or excluded - or is your post meant to not say one way or the other?
-------------------- The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.
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Connoisseur

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salvia is an entheogen
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Amanita86
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Salvia should be included in TPE in my opinion. I believe it's potential qualifies it for the position.
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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endogenous
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I would define "Entheogen" as a substance that can reveal bright Light, ("colors and patterns") and which increases consciousness to the extent that a person has a "transcendental" experience to a super natural level and the Entheogen can be seen Themselves as a Being/Teacher.
Although people have seemed to experience salvia as a being, I haven't heard of anyone claiming to see Light similar to LSD, DMT, Mescaline, or Marijuana.
People have reported a "being" with cocaine and opiates, but they certainly would not be considered Entheogens.
-------------------- The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.
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LogicaL Chaos
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Quote:
Connoisseur said: salvia is an entheogen
a naturally occuring one too.
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d0urd3n
Just call me "D"

Registered: 09/15/10
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Salvia is very psychedelic. I don't see how it's even remotely comparable to datura or brugmasia.
It's not like TPE is flooded with salvia discussion anyways, so I don't see the issue here.
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impaired420
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Re: salvia - tpe? [Re: d0urd3n]
#23970530 - 12/31/16 11:25 AM (7 years, 30 days ago) |
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Salvia is a naturally occurring entheogen, regardless of it's mechanism of action.
Sure it's mostly dissociating but I get very LSD esque visuals from lower doses of salvia.
Also there are diterpenes in salvia we don't know a lot about yet or their solitary effects or their mechanisms of action.
Not only that but salvia isn't as dangerous as datura, and it's more psychedelic than datura. Also as far as I know no one has died from a direct result of salvia toxicity? The worst thing I heard of was the guy who jumped out of a window after smoking a retarded strong 80x extract. Salvias bad image comes from people who use and abuse salvia without any knowledge of it.
I think it should stay in TPE. Like dourdan said it's not like it's a much discussed topic anyway.
-------------------- "Our task must be to free ourselves... By widening our circle of compassion, To embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature and its beauty." -Albert Einstein Offering salvia divinorum clones, leaf, and extracts for trades legal states.
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endogenous
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I have read trip reports. This substance doesn't sound at all like an Entheogen. But it does sound dangerous
For instance:
Salvia is strange, strange stuff. It gave me nothing until it gave me this total out of body dissociation. I was amazed at its power, yet somewhat put off by effects which I would describe as not very psychedelic in nature at all. It seems more like a dissociative or deliriant. I can’t be sure there’s not more here that I haven’t been clever enough to unlock yet, but the primary nature of salvia’s full-blown effects, for me, was the destruction of all identity for a short time. There was no enhancement of my natural abilities, too much confusion to self reflect. It was essentially an experience of letting go of my mind and my memory. -- https://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=66185
and
Anyway, one pinch of 10x Salvia, smoked in an aluminimum pipe. Pulled in a big puff of smoke, and boom, I was gone. I don't even remember inhaling the smoke. Unlike the tincture, this was more like a rocket propelled Wile E. Coyote style rollercoster spiraling downward at supersonic speeds with no tracks into a black abyss. And I mean that in the nicest way. Nothing like the tincture trip. Panic, anxiety, and no @!#%*^ idea how the #%!# I got here were my first recollections as the trip started.
Reality distorted, that is, the world was rotating violently to the right (the fouton, floor, gravity...) and I was trying to stay level and was rotating/twisting/leaning left. I had the lights on so my mind was taking visual input and making them fit the sensations I was feeling. The ground/futon was trying to wrap me up and peel away up and to the right much the same way you would flip the page of a book. I'm desperately trying, with primal instinct, to grab hold and turn left against the rotating feeling with no success. Real deep down sick to my stomach panic starts to set in. Anxiety turns to fear of being swept away to the unknown. I don't want to go. The world/futon/floor is wrapping around me tighter, I grab the edge of the futon/floor that's trying to wrap around me harder and harder when I realize I'm crushing the lighter in the my right hand. https://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=31488
-------------------- The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.
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impaired420
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Some people like salvia, some people don't. Some people like shrooms, some people don't.
It's not dangerous. Also it's being explored in pharmaceuticals, salvinorin shows real promise for treating depression and a few other ailments.
Taking a large dose of salvia is dangerous but so is taking large doses of mushrooms or LSD... Everything in moderation.
-------------------- "Our task must be to free ourselves... By widening our circle of compassion, To embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature and its beauty." -Albert Einstein Offering salvia divinorum clones, leaf, and extracts for trades legal states.
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Shroomism
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The only thing salvia is dangerous to is fragile egos and illogical thought patterns  And the Salvia entity is most definitely a female, a very powerful one. And it's most certainly an entheogen by every definition of the word.
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endogenous
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I remember when people started calling dxm a "Psychedelic". It caused the need of a new word to separate the REAL Psychedelics from the pseudo ones.
The word "Entheogen" seemed safe but I see now people are looking to include things that are not like REAL Entheogens.
Maybe it's time for a new word.
Incidentally, the person whose "trip report" talked about the spinning sensation, said that he cleared the room of any objects he could damage or be damaged by because he wanted to go beyond "mild" effects.
People definitely don't do, or need to do that kind of thing just to go beyond "mild" with LSD, DMT, or real Entheogens.
-------------------- The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.
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endogenous
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This is from one of the main posts at Erowid on salvia:
The pure compound salvinorin A is active at 200 - 500 mcg when vaporized and inhaled. Since very few people have the costly equipment necessary to accurately weigh anything close to this small an amount, it is inevitable that people will try to visually estimate the dose. Unfortunately there is little room for error before the effects become potentially dangerous. When the dose goes above 500 - 1000 mcg the effects can be very alarming,
I have seen several people get up and lunge around the room falling over furniture, babbling incomprehensible nonsense and knocking their heads into walls. Several people have tried to wander out of the house. When the experience is over they have no memory of any of this. In fact they usually remember very different events.
To an outside observer people in this condition have a blank look in their eyes as if no one is present (and perhaps no one is). It is also common for people to have a facial expression which is probably best described as being like that of a frightened animal.
It appears that at these "larger" doses one completely loses awareness of, and control over, the physical body and for some reason part of the brain causes the body to get up and move about recklessly while the individual has no awareness of where their physical body is or what it is doing. It seems inevitable that one of these days some careless person will do too large a dose without a sitter and will wander out in the street, or hurt themselves in some way.
Because the dose is so small and insignificant looking, there is a tendency for people to think they need more than what they are told is a safe dose. Another problem is that the technique of vaporizing and inhaling the compound can be a bit tricky. Salvinorin A has a relatively high boiling point and people often don't get it hot enough to remain a gas all the way down into the lungs. Another problem is that so little is used that the vapor often disperses before it gets inhaled. Sometimes people just don't hold the vapor in their lungs long enough for thorough absorption.
Several people after trying a dose in the recommended safe range and not getting an effect assumed that they needed a larger dose, when in fact the problem was that they did not vaporize the material efficiently the first time. I have already seen more than one intelligent, careful and experienced person accidentally do too large a dose because of this. Fortunately they had sitters and managed to get through the experience safely.
Not only is salvinorin A chemically different from other hallucinogens (it is a diterpene not an alkaloid) but its effects are quite different as well.
Many people consider the effects less manageable and harder to work with than other entheogens. The majority of people who have had a full blown experience with salvinorin A are reluctant to ever do it again.
Anyone choosing to experiment with this compound should always have an alert, clear-thinking sitter present to prevent them from injuring themselves or others. -- https://erowid.org/plants/salvia/salvia_info3.shtml
-------------------- The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.
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d0urd3n
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People do dumb shit on mushrooms too?
I never move on either one. I lay on the ground while my mind gets demolished. Breaking things or hurting yourself isn't specific to salvia. It can happen on any very powerful mind altering drug.
I don't understand why you seem to have such a vested interest in this. Like I said earlier there's only a few posts a week about salvia. Just don't click on them if you don't want to see them.
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endogenous
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Re: salvia - tpe? [Re: d0urd3n]
#23982939 - 01/05/17 01:15 AM (7 years, 25 days ago) |
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I don't understand why you don't see that it's dangerous.
People completely lose touch with reality and don't know what their body is doing. It's not a case of "they can just lay down and not move around". They are completely UNAWARE THAT THEIR BODY IS MOVING.
I have NEVER seen that kind of thing happen with real Entheogens.
And it's VERY easy to o.d. on it -- and has happened to experienced users.
People who care about others and who care about the information that comes out of a website associated with Entheogens, should be VERY concerned about this.
Edited by endogenous (01/05/17 01:20 AM)
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1234go
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Registered: 07/08/09
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Quote:
People completely lose touch with reality and don't know what their body is doing
Some OTC sleep aids cause the same kind of reactions.
There's another thing called alcohol that makes people do crazy shit too.
Go away.
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