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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Grain vs wild bird seed spawn, observations
#23739906 - 10/15/16 12:40 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ok so I recently compared both vendor wild bird seed spawn and vendor grain spawn, and made observations.
My first observation is I got better spread and mixing with 40g of WBS than 120g of grain spawn. > Using WBS reduced the required amount of spawn, reducing storage and costs.
My second observation was the shells, they provide some shielding. > Reducing chance to contaminate, and time to dry out.
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Further investigation indicates variation in the WBS helps prevent genetic loss. After reading P.Stamets comments, oysters also love cotton seed.
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Best way to prepare WBS other than simmer then PC?
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: Grain vs wild bird seed spawn, observations [Re: Ferather]
#23740009 - 10/15/16 01:54 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Here is some King oyster spawn on WBS, roughly 8 months old. Used and fully colonized at 2°C, still very strong.

As you can see no mold, and limited metabolites, pretty clean, using no filters. This vendor has prepared the WBS correctly, using an indoor LAB.
This spawn packet was stored inside a container.
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Grain vs wild bird seed spawn, observations [Re: Ferather]
#23740013 - 10/15/16 01:57 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Side note: The vendor has inoculated the WBS using wood or straw samples.
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Marty Mycfly
Time Traveler


Registered: 12/16/13
Posts: 976
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Re: Grain vs wild bird seed spawn, observations [Re: Ferather]
#23740084 - 10/15/16 02:33 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I never figured out the best way to prepare it, I always had simmered it but it's touchy on simmering too much, it can get mushy easy, I recently moved to just milo from the feed store and doing just soaking but have been getting pretty dry spawn.
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: Grain vs wild bird seed spawn, observations [Re: Marty Mycfly]
#23740153 - 10/15/16 03:00 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hey Marty, thanks for the input, any further tips are welcome.
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Quadman
Challenged


Registered: 04/23/16
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Re: Grain vs wild bird seed spawn, observations [Re: Ferather]
#23740921 - 10/15/16 09:45 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I know you purist out there will probably despise this. I simmer and use about a dozen wood pellets in the bottom of the jar.
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katbusa
TC Enthusiast


Registered: 02/19/13
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Re: Grain vs wild bird seed spawn, observations [Re: Marty Mycfly]
#23741119 - 10/15/16 11:11 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Marty Mycfly said: I never figured out the best way to prepare it, I always had simmered it but it's touchy on simmering too much, it can get mushy easy, I recently moved to just milo from the feed store and doing just soaking but have been getting pretty dry spawn.
This is exactly the issue I was having a while back. I was having issues with the touchiness of the simmer.
So then I tried preparing the WBS in the same ways I prepare agar. Bring the water up to temperature to the point it is right below boiling 190-200 deg even 180 can do it but don't let it boil. This allowed me the ability to regulate how fast the WBS takes on water and I end up with very little burst seeds.
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Ipoxa
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/16
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Re: Grain vs wild bird seed spawn, observations [Re: katbusa]
#23741493 - 10/16/16 05:40 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Has anyone tried just a basic steaming on them for a couple hours? Just need a fine enough cullender to make sure it doesn't fall through, and stir every once in awhile. I have always been very fond of the WBS idea, but have seen so many bad preps that it has discouraged me.
Also katbusa you're still talking about soaking the WBS and slow simmer right?
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
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Re: Grain vs wild bird seed spawn, observations [Re: Ipoxa] 1
#23741508 - 10/16/16 06:12 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hmmm, well the vendor managed to do it, and very well. Might have to contact them and find out. Wondering about soaking in boiled water, changing the water every 20 minutes.
Keep repeating, as the WBS cools in should suck in water. Or pump air in a container to pressure hot water in?
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Ipoxa
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Re: Grain vs wild bird seed spawn, observations [Re: Ferather]
#23741520 - 10/16/16 06:24 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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https://www.shroomology.org/forums/topic/4686-filter-patch-spawn-bag-tek-updated-2016/
I like this guys basic TEK up until he talks about injecting and hanging the bags, much better ways of cooling. Because of how fast I see this colonizing in his pictures, the extra day or two prep seems worth it. Especially because I bet a 2-3 LB bag could inoculate 8-9 G2G. This is why I've wanted to really look more into WBS, the extra prep doesn't scare me, not with the possible results.
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Ipoxa
Stranger
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Re: Grain vs wild bird seed spawn, observations [Re: Ipoxa]
#23741526 - 10/16/16 06:33 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Where do you order your seed, at a local store or online?
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: Grain vs wild bird seed spawn, observations [Re: Ipoxa]
#23741541 - 10/16/16 06:46 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ipoxa said: https://www.shroomology.org/forums/topic/4686-filter-patch-spawn-bag-tek-updated-2016/
I like this guys basic TEK up until he talks about injecting and hanging the bags, much better ways of cooling. Because of how fast I see this colonizing in his pictures, the extra day or two prep seems worth it. Especially because I bet a 2-3 LB bag could inoculate 8-9 G2G. This is why I've wanted to really look more into WBS, the extra prep doesn't scare me, not with the possible results.
Indeed Ipoxa, the time pays off as far as I see it. Budgie seed mix is also looking good.
Quote:
Ipoxa said: Where do you order your seed, at a local store or online?
I can get 20kg locally here for £7.50 GBP ($9.14 USD).
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TravelAgency
The ongoing "wow"


Registered: 12/25/10
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Re: Grain vs wild bird seed spawn, observations [Re: Ferather]
#23741660 - 10/16/16 08:07 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I've been using the simmer method with WBS with success. Put seed in a bucket, bring water to a boil, cut the heat wait for it to stop boiling then pour into the bucket- cover for 1 hour, then strain, wash, and let steam dry. Can you find just millet?
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
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Re: Grain vs wild bird seed spawn, observations [Re: TravelAgency]
#23741669 - 10/16/16 08:10 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ok so simmer works, thanks TravelAgency. Millet, I'm not sure, I'll take a look. Any particular reason?
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TravelAgency
The ongoing "wow"


Registered: 12/25/10
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Re: Grain vs wild bird seed spawn, observations [Re: Ferather]
#23741683 - 10/16/16 08:23 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well WBS has a lot of bad grain in there too. The sunflower seeds and other "floaters" that you skim off, and the cracked corn are great for mycelium. The majority of what works grea for the mycelium and for innocculation points is the millet. It's tiny so you get a ton of inoculation points when you spawn. This way you also are using 100% of what you bought instead of 20% going to waste.
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: Grain vs wild bird seed spawn, observations [Re: TravelAgency]
#23741709 - 10/16/16 08:37 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thanks for sharing your experience, I will try to sort out some millet. How does this look, more pricey but better is better.
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Quadman
Challenged


Registered: 04/23/16
Posts: 2,529
Loc: IL
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Re: Grain vs wild bird seed spawn, observations [Re: Ferather]
#23741802 - 10/16/16 09:08 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yep that is pure white millet. To much heat it burst. Great when you get t right.
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Gr0wer
always improving



Registered: 09/16/03
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Re: Grain vs wild bird seed spawn, observations [Re: Quadman]
#23741897 - 10/16/16 09:52 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Bird seed is typically dirty. I get double or triple cleaned feed grains and they have minimal chaff and floaters. Not a huge deal with bags but in jars you will run into clumping.
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: Grain vs wild bird seed spawn, observations [Re: Gr0wer]
#23741925 - 10/16/16 10:00 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yea after reading and looking at the general product quality, same as normal, price equals quality. I will get floater and chaff free, I'm not taking risks. My vendor WBS is premium.
I'll start with T-Tek spawn to start, then look at high quality seeds. Thanks for the input everyone, got what I was looking for.
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Grain vs wild bird seed spawn, observations [Re: Ferather]
#23742831 - 10/16/16 02:53 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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After thought and observations of image logs, I would like to further discuss seeds. I am wondering if seeds perform better due to their shells in more ways.
We know the design is protect the seed, and it can be digested. We also know that digestion is restricted to cellulose.
Is this an accurate diagram of a fungal seed?

Input and thoughts?
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