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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: what do people really mean by "oneness" [Re: tHEfLY] * 1
    #23746271 - 10/17/16 04:26 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Unity is a word that can be applied to many different levels. You named Communism which is a socio-political level, but what you are referring to elicits scenes of post-Maoist China, for example, with everyone wearing blue Mao jackets, red bandanas, and maybe even thousands of people practicing Tai Chi. This is uniformity more than unity. Any attempt to create a 'hive-mind' is an attempt to reduce human nature, not enhance it. Human individuality is actually pretty rare. Frank Zappa used to say to his young audience that they were all wearing uniforms too, only most fancied themselves as being uniquely individual as adolescents tend to falsely believe. They still remain within a limited field because Belongingness Needs outweigh any courageous attempt to transcend the herd mentality - it's lonely at the top of the mountain. C.G. Jung refers to the process of Individuation. Abraham Maslow spoke of Self-Actualization. Robert De Ropp wrote about The Master Game. Most people do not forego conventional socio-cultural or psychological norms to pursue paths that result in unitive states. It would be like someone who given the opportunity would choose to eat by spreading one's arms to the sun, instead of choosing, cooking and enjoying the sensual taste and texture of food. Or, if one enjoys ecstatic mental states more than sexual pleasures, and either becomes celibate or decides against procreation because the joys of parenthood become superfluous. Most people prefer to remain in conventional life, governed by mammalian instincts and desires. While it is theoretically possible to enjoy both conventional and transcendental delights, I for one chose against parenthood, which held no interest or desire in me. I am not claiming that I live in  Sahaj Samadhi, but whatever ataraxia or divine apatheia I do have would not have been possible for me along with the necessities and obligations of parenthood. I require more peace and solitude.

If you want to jump straight into mysticism, there are many different forms with nature-mysticism identifying primarily with the body, its internal and external rhythms and cycles. Nature-mysticisms, whether in Walt Whitman or in popular Wiccan forms submerge their identities in nature rather than strive to transcend temporal nature for an Eternal Now, a transcendental goal. Buddhism and Advaita do not seek a dualistic separation from space-time. Buddhism intuits a higher union in its saying "Nirvana is Samsara, Samsara is Nirvana." The mysticism of the Hindu Bhagavad Gita views creation as the "material energies" of God which is why this form of Hinduism is as Pantheistic (Pan=All, theos=God) as nature mysticisms tend to be. The God and Goddess in Wicca are symbols of the masculine and feminine aspects of nature, much as Hindu myth relates the sky god having intercourse with the earth goddess. Unity is often expressed  as sexual unity, whether in ritual sex in magick circles or as Tantric sex in a Hindu idiom. Panentheism appeals to me more than Pantheism, as religious philosophies go.

There are forms of mystical union in many world religions, but they must be described carefully so as not to give the impression that on is saying that one IS God or that God is one's true Self. This kind of disclosure is recognized in some Indian religions, as  referring to a Transcendental Self which is NOT the ego, but in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam (where it is the heresy called shirk - identification with Deity), such disclosures have been met with accusations of blasphemy (as in the case of Jesus, or the Muslim mystic al Hallaj). In Judaism, even pronouncing the most sacred names of God could result in death by stoning. This carried over into the New Testament story of the stoning of Stephen, who was the first Christian martyr (and, tongue-in-cheek why Saint Stephen is the patron saint of the Grateful Dead, having been stoned to death).

In Neoplatonism, a systematic form of Plato's doctrines, there is a dualism wherein one strives to transcend the mind-body duality by disengaging mind from matter, and seeking what Plotinus called "the flight of the alone to the Alone" where the object is conscious union with The ONE. The ONE has no attributes. It can't even be affirmed that The ONE has Being. Much of the description can be found in the difficult and often tedious Platonic writing Parmenides. Some Christian authors became Christian Neoplatonists (e.g., PseudoDionysus AKA St. Denis AKA Dionysus the Areopagite) where a union with the Unitary Godhead is deemed theoretically possible beyond communion with persons of the Holy Trinity. Most Christian mystics speak only of Christ mysticism which differs markedly from God mysticism found in Plotinus or in Indian Yoga (see The Mysticism of Paul the Apostle by Albert Schweitzer). The topic of unity belongs to mysticism both religious and philosophical, but the achievement of unity requires a contemplative lifestyle, as philosopher Pierre Hadot has repeated in his writings, just as Plotinus wrote in the 3rd century CE.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineJust sharks
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Re: what do people really mean by "oneness" [Re: MarkostheGnostic] * 1
    #23746345 - 10/17/16 04:43 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

what this truly implies is more literal than the spiritualists would even admit. we are the reincarnation of the same person, over and over again; only able to experience ourselves through illusion/projection/creation, time and space, etc. so yeah, life really is likened to that of a dream.

the "Thing" spiritualists and new age people are trying to discover is the same "Thing" that religious people and philosophers have been looking for. it is the "place" located outside of time and space, dream/universe dimension


Edited by Just sharks (10/17/16 04:44 PM)


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OfflineHalayudha
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Re: what do people really mean by "oneness" [Re: Just sharks]
    #23749000 - 10/18/16 01:46 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Ah, Shroomery, Sanctuary, thank you for being here.  This post will also be rather shorter, like the previous one.

You touch on a lot of points, OP, and there are a lot of aspects of all of it..

Reinterpretations of wisdom traditions is sometimes a muddying factor - of course, the opposite can be an obstacle, too, not being willing to step forward and say, 'I'm here, I have something of value to offer,' ... As in all things, I believe there is a good balance to be found.

The primary flaw with 'oneness' philosophy iis that it does nothing to purify the heart.

It does not do good to say to someone, 'You are God,' who is way out of balance at the moment.

(I chose those words on reflection, I am glad I did, as it fits better than some others.)

But yes, basically this.

Now there are aspects of nature where one sees oneness - native american among other - but they are very sacred..

This is one of the main things.. These things aren't really to be prosylitized. .

Basically, I understand, and don't worry. . do your style and live free..  Follow heart and etc..

Your wisdom is very valuable .. Lead don't follow, etc.. :smile:

.

Clarity, simplicity and so forth have much more value after experience with confusion.

True story!

Peace and best wishes..

synthesize all you know..
and share it :sun:


--------------------
Call me not rebel, though { here at every word
                          {in what I sing
If I no longer hail thee  { King and Lord
                          { Lord and King


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InvisibletHEfLY
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Re: what do people really mean by "oneness" [Re: Halayudha]
    #23749500 - 10/18/16 04:51 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I did another post then deleted it because I'm having a hard time determining what point I was actually trying to make in the OP and organizing my thoughts about it.

Basically I think there is something missing from systems based around the idea of one, a lack of life or character or something, but I'm losing the will to elucidate because I don't know if I still agree with myself. Individualism is a system based around the idea of one after all for example.

Anyway, the responses are still appreciated, I just need to think about this some more.


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OfflineHalayudha
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Re: what do people really mean by "oneness" [Re: tHEfLY]
    #23752205 - 10/19/16 02:35 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

To me, the main thing is... Well I would say doing the right thing but it really goes beyond that.  Having done the right thing, a long long time ago, so that now, nothing needs to be done... Sometimes I think in that way..

I.e., protesting wars is too late - we must prevent then rather.

And I'm thinking of kindness and things like that.. 

It may seem unrelated but all of it helps..  Light for example, is such a good analogy..

What is it - any of it? .. All of it is light.

But if it doesn't seem to be light - I have found -

Stay in safety, and gain some wisdom, for wisdom is light..

And then of course come questions such as these..  How do we know what is wisdom and so forth -

Self-trust is central, the foundation of all that comes after it, but it is not the only thing.

Ultimately curiosity flourishes and leads well..

Reflection before action, or non action, is central as well.

The states which are characterized by calm, and happiness with love and music in the mix, are most conducive to the well-operating functioning of the imagination

If this sounds too technical, well, it is.

But, I do my best.


Imagination in this case kept on the aspects of light, love, music and infinite worlds, as well as all of those complementing attributes such as truth, fairness.. and not to call peace lesser, peace.

And as well as this - imagination linked to intuition - and all of the traditional ways of honing the intuition..

The point of this is then - intuition, or determining one's understanding... Understanding and intuition - are useful for all of these things very much.


.
.
Music . .


.
.

The quote coming in a moment or two.


--------------------
Call me not rebel, though { here at every word
                          {in what I sing
If I no longer hail thee  { King and Lord
                          { Lord and King


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Offlinebeforethedawn
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Re: what do people really mean by "oneness" [Re: Halayudha]
    #23752274 - 10/19/16 03:04 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

At the end of the day,

there is nothing wrong with your present awareness. It is removing the notion that there is a problem, that will set you free.

Mostly it is deconditioning yourself.

De-traumatising yourself, because this society has no idea how to treat children.

Easy done,

just do what you're doing. You already know, you already made it.

I sort of like the 'cosmic joke' notion, or the 'it's a ride' notion.

Sits well.

The great neurotic and depressive journey into spirituality and attempting to realise, to earn it, is very helpful though, as it leaves you with few doubts, very convinced.

You are just currently not convinced. That is all.


--------------------
Hostile humankind
Can't you see you're fucking blind?


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OfflineHalayudha
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Re: what do people really mean by "oneness" [Re: beforethedawn]
    #23753076 - 10/19/16 08:04 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

It is almost always good to double down with what you are doing..
Although here I sort of ..
Oh, travel can be very good, to be sure.
Of like, gathering and learning from other cultures,
For instance in Japan, as I understand.. They are very quiet about expressing emotio, yet their love runs very deep..
A similar aspect can be seen to flow deeply through the Chinese.

.


--------------------
Call me not rebel, though { here at every word
                          {in what I sing
If I no longer hail thee  { King and Lord
                          { Lord and King


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: what do people really mean by "oneness" [Re: Halayudha]
    #23759163 - 10/21/16 08:49 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

The code 11:11, or 1:11 is about oneness...each of us is on a binary line of an infinite or supra finite amount of 1's and zeros..

Each of us..if we are in union and alignment with the way and universe are 1's

and those of us out of alignment/enlightenment are 0's

You can measure your own binary line like this:

Mine is like this specifically:

1011001010110010 = 45746

or

45658 = 1011001001011010


Edited by BrendanFlock (10/21/16 08:51 PM)


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Offlinealfonseelrick
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Re: what do people really mean by "oneness" [Re: tHEfLY]
    #23771808 - 10/25/16 10:58 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

.....


--------------------
Im just a fictional character everything stated by me is purely fictional and simply lies, those who like me are liars who where bribed or blackmailed in some way Muahahaha :stoned:


Edited by alfonseelrick (10/26/16 12:45 AM)


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: what do people really mean by "oneness" [Re: alfonseelrick]
    #23772031 - 10/26/16 12:39 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Oneness, to me, is the realisation that every living thing is a part of me and I a part of it.

I don't pretend to understand it on a cognitive level, but I feel it powerfully. Moreso when my mind is clear.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: what do people really mean by "oneness" [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #23775282 - 10/27/16 12:06 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:

Unity is a word that can be applied to many different levels.




Unification is related to "holy". A word which is rooted in feeling "whole"

I believe "oneness" is a lack of feeling isolated and fractured.

And the common feeling something is missing or lacking in one's life.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: what do people really mean by "oneness" [Re: tHEfLY]
    #23775587 - 10/27/16 04:20 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

tHEfLY said:
I did another post then deleted it because I'm having a hard time determining what point I was actually trying to make in the OP and organizing my thoughts about it.

Basically I think there is something missing from systems based around the idea of one, a lack of life or character or something, but I'm losing the will to elucidate because I don't know if I still agree with myself. Individualism is a system based around the idea of one after all for example.

Anyway, the responses are still appreciated, I just need to think about this some more.




well the religion of 'Oneness' comes from the East. Pretending to be nondualistic it yet created a duality between the 'One' versus the 'many'.
The former was supposed to be experienced by 'holy men' who via reincarnations had, it was believed, come to that 'pure'state. Thus over there you have the guru system. Envisioned as little pyramids with guru at the apex and followers (the many) beneath practising the 'dharma' to achieve 'oneness'!

This 'Oneness' is a higher abstraction from 'the gods' of which 'God' was the higher abstraction

But then is there a truth to all reality being one?

Well in as much as oneness implies diversity and diversity implies oneness yes. But it is never JUST one-sided, because it is dynamic.


Edited by zzripz (10/27/16 04:22 AM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: what do people really mean by "oneness" [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #23778152 - 10/27/16 07:58 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:

Unity is a word that can be applied to many different levels.




Unification is related to "holy". A word which is rooted in feeling "whole"

I believe "oneness" is a lack of feeling isolated and fractured.

And the common feeling something is missing or lacking in one's life.




The meaning of Oneness in mysticism has more than psychological implications, it means more than subjective human feelings of reduced/eliminated existential alienation. That is one of the healing aspects that allows one to transcend the ordinary social identities by which we experience unity (e.g., our partner, nuclear family, extended family, social group, culture, nationality, etc.), sometimes extending to other species of life or even to the entire biosphere of Earth. But the unity in question supposes a metaphysical unity, a Ground of Being, from which all diversity emerges, the so-called Great Chain of Being. The ONE is discussed extensively by the philosopher Plotinus in his work The Enneads, and it is the topic of the book Parmenides, included among Plato's works. It is utterly transcendental and defies every qualification, even whether it has Being (which is not to say that it is Non-Being because that too would be a qualification and the ONE is utterly unqualified. No attributes can be assigned to it because any attribute would suggest its opposite and hence diversity).


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: what do people really mean by "oneness" [Re: tHEfLY]
    #23779230 - 10/28/16 05:07 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I also just read this interesting article which also reveals how a concept of 'onness' could/can be used to suppress individual power, because such power would be viewed as rebellion against the 'Oneness'. This is the situation that happened in the East, where the 'One' becomes a concept in division against a concept of the 'many'

Collective Consciousness – The Individual is Gone

Now the western form of indoctrination begins in school (see writings and talks of John Taylor Gatto). Your made to forgo any authentic individualistic and rather become a robot who unquestioningly follows a chain of command of authority:

The Six-Lesson Schoolteacher

What I have started feeling lately is seeing , not just humans, but more and more seeing forms, beings, as energetic. IE I was watching this documentary about schools and all these kids come out of the school all FULL of energy. they were energy, all with their own individual expressions of it and yet one. it wasn't just an intellectual knowing of it but feeling it, cause I am energetic also


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OfflineThey
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Re: what do people really mean by "oneness" [Re: zzripz]
    #23783062 - 10/29/16 04:01 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

The way I now see and feel it, we are one in the same exact sense that the neurons in our head form one network.

The neurons don't have to be exactly the same, in fact they have to be differentiated and they are. As are all squirrels or birds different among each other, and that difference is needed or else they'd have trouble during mate selection.

We are individuals in one large intelligent Network, and attract each other intuitively, instinctively, into tribes or interactions, as needed. Consciously we are more isolated, but there's something else, more primal and instinctive, that actually connects us and guides us.

THis has to do with EM fields, that aura you see around the head of Buddha or Jesus (We all have it, but it gets more effective when we actually work to get a stronger EM field, stronger than the norm).

Over the past months I've spent a lot of time meditating (including living in a tent in a forest, so I could be away from people, clarify my mind) and have started to see much clearer Network effects. I've seen groups flock to me based on nothing but a certain smile and internal radiance. So I know we are connected and feel each other, magnetically. There's one raw energy flowing through all of us, Chi, Tao, Prana, call it whatever, but if you're a bird you make it look and sound one way, if you're a human another.

That is the oneness, the fact that we belong in that way to one large thing, like cells in a body, neurons in a brain. In no way does it imply sameness or uniformity, your feathers can be as flamboyantly different from all others as you like, just know you are in the Network, things flow to and from you :smile:

This metaphor can be pushed as far as you wish, things like no neuron can understand what the larger head is doing, because the intelligence level of the head is orders of magnitude above any neuron's. Conversely, you as the large consciousness above, cannot know how any particular neuron inside your head is precisely doing its job, when it should fire electric signals or be quiet, how you move one finger when holding a spoon or playing piano.

All this electric dance does itself, hopefully in harmony and grace, and yet no part sees all the pieces, we only see our slice of relevant data, our level of magnification alone :smile:


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: what do people really mean by [Re: tHEfLY] * 2
    #23792203 - 11/01/16 05:34 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

tHEfLY said:
I feel uneasy about the "we are all one" talk I see everywhere. It sounds in a way dystopian because I'm a person who values individuality and the right of all people to remain individuals. Isn't that the point of creation? For God to take Form? Form can not be without difference and definition... so I guess a lot of new age talk just sounds anti-creation and anti-life to me. Life is a multiplicity and people can only be the same if they're formless (dead)

Sometimes I get confused and relate this as a political issue, which causes me to make a fool of myself by railing against communism. I do think there is a connection though. It's all new world order talk far as I can see, designed to encourage people to give up their sovereignty.

Anyone care to clear this up for me? I mean I understand the truth of the statement in a metaphysical sense but I also see this kind of thing being used as a slogan by entities with questionable motives (looking at you pope francis)




Oneness theologians would argue that the supposed individuality you have declared to savour is actually only an illusion and that the comfort you feel is actually a result of being one with all.

Some may also go out on a limb to perhaps suggest that the 'alone' individuals are those who are actually psychologically depressed through (perceived) disconnection, but in actuality, no-one ever is.

As an example, my own 'individuality' which I embrace and enjoy, is actually a culmination of comfort of knowledge of others and work of others.  Everything I play on piano as an example, is in appreciation of the work of others - those who composed the music, those that built the piano and the seat that I sit on.  No matter how 'individual' I assume myself to be, I'll always be litterly engulfed by the creation and existence of others.  Even people living remotely can't escape the life of mites in their own eyebrows or bacteria in the things that they consume to give them life.

Sun worship, works on the same principle that the entirety of life is governed and thus, interwoven into that body of energy.  Worship of it, is worship of everything.  The 'sun' then is the 'Son' of God - a singular entity of energy.  It is the light of life.  The sun is the Earthly icon of all of us.

It's why many people go onto discover the great revelation that giving is actually massively spiritually rewarding.  We don't ever escape ourselves, or the next person who is, in essence, ourself too.

It's intruiging when you can look at your circle of closest friends as see quite clearly they are just an extension of yourself.


Edited by Duncan Rowhl (11/01/16 06:00 PM)


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: what do people really mean by [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23805142 - 11/05/16 11:32 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:

Sun worship, works on the same principle that the entirety of life is governed and thus, interwoven into that body of energy.  Worship of it, is worship of everything.  The 'sun' then is the 'Son' of God - a singular entity of energy.  It is the light of life.  The sun is the Earthly icon of all of us.

It's why many people go onto discover the great revelation that giving is actually massively spiritually rewarding.  We don't ever escape ourselves, or the next person who is, in essence, ourself too.

It's intruiging when you can look at your circle of closest friends as see quite clearly they are just an extension of yourself.




Great points!


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Re: what do people really mean by [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23805160 - 11/05/16 11:47 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)



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