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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" * 3
    #23735276 - 10/13/16 08:12 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Gulf of Tonkin, anyone? Anyone?


Two sorry ass missiles get allegedly fired towards a US destroyer in the Gulf of Aden and now we're shelling Houthi controlled areas near the coast.

So I guess the Saudis are having trouble propping up their peninsular puppet state with our weapons, now we need the US Navy to get involved.

Houthi Rebels, Bashar al Assad. Iran's last regional friends. Weird how those are threats to our existence all of a sudden.


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OfflineLucisM
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic] * 2
    #23735303 - 10/13/16 08:26 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

2017, shits gone be poppin off, aliens are going to disclose themselves, WWIII gonna break out, shits gon be lit fam.


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©️


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Offlineqman
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: Lucis]
    #23735482 - 10/13/16 09:23 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

The oil market has little concern, business as usual. :cookiemonster:


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InvisibletHEfLY
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: Lucis] * 1
    #23735669 - 10/13/16 10:47 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Fennario said:
2017, shits gone be poppin off, aliens are going to disclose themselves, WWIII gonna break out, shits gon be lit fam.




DEFCON is at alert status 3 same as the cuban missile crisis ans september 11 :uhoh:


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Invisibletdubz
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: tHEfLY]
    #23735736 - 10/13/16 11:26 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Woops posted in the pub didn't know there was a thread about it yet but has a little more detail about the situation.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23735981 - 10/14/16 03:13 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Gulf of Tonkin, anyone? Anyone?


Two sorry ass missiles get allegedly fired towards a US destroyer in the Gulf of Aden and now we're shelling Houthi controlled areas near the coast.

So I guess the Saudis are having trouble propping up their peninsular puppet state with our weapons, now we need the US Navy to get involved.

Houthi Rebels, Bashar al Assad. Iran's last regional friends. Weird how those are threats to our existence all of a sudden.




Hopefully not. We don't need another war, but maybe I'm being naïve. I always read that WWII was the only thing that got us out of the Great Depression. Economic indicators, under Obama are tremendously better than internet Republicans would argue, but I know things are still tuff on main street. Yes we are manipulating the economy; we manipulated the fuck out of the economy during the so called "Reagan Recovery".

    I doubt another war will help the economy, but probably both parties have a vested interest. Suitcases full of money from the lobbyists for everybody who is connected.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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OfflineTipote
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #23736151 - 10/14/16 06:11 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Imagine when Clinton is in charge.. all this shit will only just continue and get worse. Maybe its naive of me to think so but I think Obama at least tried to be a little restrained, even if that wasn't always helpful.

Its a disgrace. Also the fact that the Saudis bombed a funeral killing over 700150 people the other day.. we arm them with those weapons...

Edit: 150 killed, over 700 injured.


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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength


Edited by Tipote (10/16/16 11:08 AM)


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OfflineCrumist
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic] * 3
    #23736153 - 10/14/16 06:12 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

We've been "shelling" Yemen in one form or another since before 2009. It is completely
absurd and utterly immoral of the US.

Fuck Bashar al-Asad though.


--------------------
'I am all for resources being allocated to the widowed single mother of 3, lost husband over seas fighting for our country. I am for vets getting mental health access and resources following war. I am not for free money cause a woman can't close her legs or some chump with low testosterone no going to work cause "i'm sad."' -finalexplosion
Nice knowin ya'll! https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23904704/vc/1#23904704


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OfflineTipote
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: Crumist]
    #23736171 - 10/14/16 06:30 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

i wonder if Clinton would go after Iran. probably, if the Israelis want her to.


--------------------
War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength


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OfflineCrumist
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: Tipote] * 3
    #23736191 - 10/14/16 06:50 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I really don't think so, the US and Iran are (were?) in a period of warming relations. So long as Russia/Syria drama doesn't fuck
everything up, having Saudia Arabia and Iran on the same side might mean actual progress in the Middle East.


--------------------
'I am all for resources being allocated to the widowed single mother of 3, lost husband over seas fighting for our country. I am for vets getting mental health access and resources following war. I am not for free money cause a woman can't close her legs or some chump with low testosterone no going to work cause "i'm sad."' -finalexplosion
Nice knowin ya'll! https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23904704/vc/1#23904704


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Offlineqman
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: Brian Jones]
    #23736321 - 10/14/16 08:27 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Gulf of Tonkin, anyone? Anyone?


Two sorry ass missiles get allegedly fired towards a US destroyer in the Gulf of Aden and now we're shelling Houthi controlled areas near the coast.

So I guess the Saudis are having trouble propping up their peninsular puppet state with our weapons, now we need the US Navy to get involved.

Houthi Rebels, Bashar al Assad. Iran's last regional friends. Weird how those are threats to our existence all of a sudden.




Hopefully not. We don't need another war, but maybe I'm being naïve. I always read that WWII was the only thing that got us out of the Great Depression. Economic indicators, under Obama are tremendously better than internet Republicans would argue, but I know things are still tuff on main street. Yes we are manipulating the economy; we manipulated the fuck out of the economy during the so called "Reagan Recovery".

    I doubt another war will help the economy, but probably both parties have a vested interest. Suitcases full of money from the lobbyists for everybody who is connected.




"Economic indicators, under Obama are tremendously better than internet Republicans would argue"

The "indicators" suck, just ask Bernie supporters. Do you pay attention to economic trends? 

How is 1% GDP growth with $20 trillion of debt a good sign?  We are in a big mess, the real trouble is down the road.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: qman] * 4
    #23736383 - 10/14/16 08:47 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

We need not obsess over the debt. Lets tackle the deficit first.

How do we accomplish a balanced budget, in your mind?


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Offlineqman
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23736455 - 10/14/16 09:14 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
We need not obsess over the debt. Lets tackle the deficit first.

How do we accomplish a balanced budget, in your mind?




Get rid of the imbalances (trade and currency).

We are artificially propping up the dollar to create these highly profitable imbalances. It will eventually blow up in their faces because it's becoming very challenging to keep it up.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: qman] * 3
    #23736614 - 10/14/16 10:09 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

"To balance the budget we need to get rid of the imbalances."


No shit. How.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: qman] * 2
    #23736642 - 10/14/16 10:21 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Economic indicators, under Obama are tremendously better than internet Republicans would argue, but I know things are still tuff on main street. Yes we are manipulating the economy; we manipulated the fuck out of the economy during the so called "Reagan Recovery".



The "indicators" suck, just ask Bernie supporters. Do you pay attention to economic trends?



Unemployment is back to normal and corporate profits are at record highs.  The only indicator that's down is the share of money going to the middle class.

Quote:

qman said:
How is 1% GDP growth with $20 trillion of debt a good sign?  We are in a big mess, the real trouble is down the road.



First of all, it's already been pointed out to you that population growth has slowed, but GDP growth per capita is actually very stable, so that's not an issue:



And no one argues that $20 trillion debt is good, but we've come out of this level of debt before by raising taxes on the rich, raising minimum wage for the poor, and having a strong pro-union attitude:



You can see that Reagan's trickle down economic plan (give everything to the rich) is what fucked the country over.  I'm astounded that you still support this.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 3
    #23736797 - 10/14/16 11:07 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Every single time I bring up how tax cuts caused the deficit and debt to skyrocket, he reverts back to his debt to GDP ratio argument. As if that trickle down mentality isnt what got us there...


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23736836 - 10/14/16 11:25 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Yup.  :smirk:

That's why I keep posting the Debt/GDP chart, which clearly shows Reaganomics is primarily responsible for the current debt problem.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlineqman
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23736889 - 10/14/16 11:42 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Economic indicators, under Obama are tremendously better than internet Republicans would argue, but I know things are still tuff on main street. Yes we are manipulating the economy; we manipulated the fuck out of the economy during the so called "Reagan Recovery".



The "indicators" suck, just ask Bernie supporters. Do you pay attention to economic trends?



Unemployment is back to normal and corporate profits are at record highs.  The only indicator that's down is the share of money going to the middle class.

Quote:

qman said:
How is 1% GDP growth with $20 trillion of debt a good sign?  We are in a big mess, the real trouble is down the road.



First of all, it's already been pointed out to you that population growth has slowed, but GDP growth per capita is actually very stable, so that's not an issue:



And no one argues that $20 trillion debt is good, but we've come out of this level of debt before by raising taxes on the rich, raising minimum wage for the poor, and having a strong pro-union attitude:



You can see that Reagan's trickle down economic plan (give everything to the rich) is what fucked the country over.  I'm astounded that you still support this.




Are you suggesting that GDP can't go higher simply because of population growth rates?  If so, why do you even argue against income inequality? A pick up in demand would increase GDP regardless of population growth.

"I'm astounded that you still support this"

What makes you think I do, or you're just wrongfully speculating once again?


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Offlineqman
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23736894 - 10/14/16 11:44 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Every single time I bring up how tax cuts caused the deficit and debt to skyrocket, he reverts back to his debt to GDP ratio argument. As if that trickle down mentality isnt what got us there...




What makes you think I'm arguing "trickle down"? :shrug:


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: qman] * 3
    #23736896 - 10/14/16 11:46 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Every single time I bring up how tax cuts caused the deficit and debt to skyrocket, he reverts back to his debt to GDP ratio argument. As if that trickle down mentality isnt what got us there...




What makes you think I'm arguing "trickle down"? :shrug:




Your entire post history.

If we've all got you wrong, please clarify. The deficit, debt, and gdp to debt ratio were all greatly exacerbated by tax cuts for the wealthy. And you dont want to raise those even close to where they were in the 60s, so whats the plan?


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Offlineqman
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23736946 - 10/14/16 12:03 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Every single time I bring up how tax cuts caused the deficit and debt to skyrocket, he reverts back to his debt to GDP ratio argument. As if that trickle down mentality isnt what got us there...




What makes you think I'm arguing "trickle down"? :shrug:




Your entire post history.

If we've all got you wrong, please clarify. The deficit, debt, and gdp to debt ratio were all greatly exacerbated by tax cuts for the wealthy. And you dont want to raise those even close to where they were in the 60s, so whats the plan?




I think I showed that spending increases contributed to the debt and tax revenue has remained constant relative to GDP. Maybe we can't afford what we want (social services and military).

Maybe higher tax rates on the wealthy would help, again tax rates and actual collection are two different things.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: qman]
    #23736958 - 10/14/16 12:08 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

You dont think a reduced tax revenue affects GDP?


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Offlineqman
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23736977 - 10/14/16 12:17 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
You dont think a reduced tax revenue affects GDP?




Tax revenue is usually a reflection of GDP.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: qman] * 3
    #23737246 - 10/14/16 02:02 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Unless you cut taxes in half. Correlation is not causation, remember...


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Offlineqman
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23737281 - 10/14/16 02:13 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Unless you cut taxes in half. Correlation is not causation, remember...




Thinking that hiking taxes automatically raises more tax revenue is a logical fallacy, it might raise more revenue, it might not.

Even the CBO does a horrible job at forecasting this outcome, for some strange reason they always error on the side of optimism.  :lol:


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23737551 - 10/14/16 03:42 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

They sank a UAE flagged ship a couple of weeks ago and also previously fired at us ships.  It's not our fucking fault.  Take it to the conspiracy forum if you think it is us trying to stir up trouble.  Jesus christ.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: qman]
    #23737624 - 10/14/16 04:08 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Are you suggesting that GDP can't go higher simply because of population growth rates?



No, I'm simply arguing GDP growth has been relatively constant per capita.  If 10% of the population left the country, then I would expect GDP to go down accordingly, because there are fewer people producing things.

Quote:

qman said:
If so, why do you even argue against income inequality? A pick up in demand would increase GDP regardless of population growth.



You're right - a pickup in demand would increase GDP.  So would bringing in more immigrants, so why do you argue against that if you want a larger GDP?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: qman]
    #23737640 - 10/14/16 04:14 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Thinking that hiking taxes automatically raises more tax revenue is a logical fallacy, it might raise more revenue, it might not.



No, it's not a logical fallacy, it's a mathematical fact.

The reason we don't always see a clear correlation is because when one tax is raised (or lowered), another tax is usually lowered (or raised) to compensate.

For example, the reason we didn't see a drop in tax revenue when we cut taxes for the rich is because we increased payroll taxes, making the total revenue about the same.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: qman]
    #23737694 - 10/14/16 04:34 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Unless you cut taxes in half. Correlation is not causation, remember...




Thinking that hiking taxes automatically raises more tax revenue is a logical fallacy, it might raise more revenue, it might not.

Even the CBO does a horrible job at forecasting this outcome, for some strange reason they always error on the side of optimism.  :lol:




For the most part, it does raise revenue. The other times are when we've raised taxes duruing an economic downturn, or there are other larger external factors at play, but again, thats correlation.


I'm not trying to say that raising taxes is gonna fix everything. But it will fix some things. And harm no one but the people who can, and should, take it.


--------------------


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Offlineqman
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23738632 - 10/14/16 09:51 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
Are you suggesting that GDP can't go higher simply because of population growth rates?



No, I'm simply arguing GDP growth has been relatively constant per capita.  If 10% of the population left the country, then I would expect GDP to go down accordingly, because there are fewer people producing things.

Quote:

qman said:
If so, why do you even argue against income inequality? A pick up in demand would increase GDP regardless of population growth.



You're right - a pickup in demand would increase GDP.  So would bringing in more immigrants, so why do you argue against that if you want a larger GDP?




So would smashing all the windows in my home, it's about the quality of GDP. An Illegal racking up $100k in an emergency room is NOT positive GDP.

Real consumer demand increases would create positive GDP growth instead of this 1% crap that you think is our destiny.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #23738640 - 10/14/16 09:58 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Every single time I bring up how tax cuts caused the deficit and debt to skyrocket, he reverts back to his debt to GDP ratio argument. As if that trickle down mentality isnt what got us there...




What makes you think I'm arguing "trickle down"? :shrug:




Your entire post history.

If we've all got you wrong, please clarify. The deficit, debt, and gdp to debt ratio were all greatly exacerbated by tax cuts for the wealthy. And you dont want to raise those even close to where they were in the 60s, so whats the plan?




these exchanges are so much more funny now that there is a thread to state where we stand on the issues.  The whole point was to stop wasting time playing guessing games.


--------------------


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OfflineCrumist
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: qman]
    #23738764 - 10/14/16 11:02 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:So would smashing all the windows in my home, it's about the quality of GDP. An Illegal racking up $100k in an emergency room is NOT positive GDP.



So would a native born citizen. Neither are 'positive' GDP.
Is the issue the cause of the emergency visit or is it the legal status of the human being in the bed?
Is the value of a mans life how he factors into the national balance-sheet?


--------------------
'I am all for resources being allocated to the widowed single mother of 3, lost husband over seas fighting for our country. I am for vets getting mental health access and resources following war. I am not for free money cause a woman can't close her legs or some chump with low testosterone no going to work cause "i'm sad."' -finalexplosion
Nice knowin ya'll! https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23904704/vc/1#23904704


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: Crumist] * 1
    #23739035 - 10/15/16 01:34 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crumist said:
Quote:

qman said:So would smashing all the windows in my home, it's about the quality of GDP. An Illegal racking up $100k in an emergency room is NOT positive GDP.



So would a native born citizen. Neither are 'positive' GDP.



Exactly.  I'm astounded qman says things like that - as if illegals come here to hurt themselves so they can take advantage of our emergency rooms more than the native population.

And illegals don't come here to smash windows.  They come to grow our food, to clean our houses, to build things, and many, many other quality GDP contributions.


--------------------
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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #23739080 - 10/15/16 02:14 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Every single time I bring up how tax cuts caused the deficit and debt to skyrocket, he reverts back to his debt to GDP ratio argument. As if that trickle down mentality isnt what got us there...




What makes you think I'm arguing "trickle down"? :shrug:




Your entire post history.

If we've all got you wrong, please clarify. The deficit, debt, and gdp to debt ratio were all greatly exacerbated by tax cuts for the wealthy. And you dont want to raise those even close to where they were in the 60s, so whats the plan?




these exchanges are so much more funny now that there is a thread to state where we stand on the issues.  The whole point was to stop wasting time playing guessing games.




lol exactly, and youll notice who hasnt posted in it yet. All the usual suspects.


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: Crumist]
    #23739402 - 10/15/16 08:06 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crumist said:
Quote:

qman said:So would smashing all the windows in my home, it's about the quality of GDP. An Illegal racking up $100k in an emergency room is NOT positive GDP.



So would a native born citizen. Neither are 'positive' GDP.
Is the issue the cause of the emergency visit or is it the legal status of the human being in the bed?
Is the value of a mans life how he factors into the national balance-sheet?




If we follow your line of reasoning, we should take in the worlds sick and leave the US taxpayer with the bill, this country can't afford it since we're already broke.


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #23739411 - 10/15/16 08:11 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Crumist said:
Quote:

qman said:So would smashing all the windows in my home, it's about the quality of GDP. An Illegal racking up $100k in an emergency room is NOT positive GDP.



So would a native born citizen. Neither are 'positive' GDP.



Exactly.  I'm astounded qman says things like that - as if illegals come here to hurt themselves so they can take advantage of our emergency rooms more than the native population.

And illegals don't come here to smash windows.  They come to grow our food, to clean our houses, to build things, and many, many other quality GDP contributions.




"many other quality GDP contributions"

Is taking jobs away from US citizens a "contribution"? 

What about lowering the wages of US citizens?

What about using 8 times more in tax revenue than they contribute to the tax base?

They contribute to only one thing, higher profit margins for the top 1% at the expense of the other 99%.


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: qman]
    #23739489 - 10/15/16 09:01 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Using your logic, we shouldnt stop illegal immigration because it will harm the GDP to debt ratio.


After all, the only people who benefit from historically low tax rates on the 1% are....the 1%, at the expense of the other 99%. And we cant change that either.


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23739520 - 10/15/16 09:11 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Using your logic, we shouldnt stop illegal immigration because it will harm the GDP to debt ratio.





:lolwut:    No, illegals do harm debt to GDP.


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: tHEfLY]
    #23739531 - 10/15/16 09:15 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

tHEfLY said:
Quote:

Fennario said:
2017, shits gone be poppin off, aliens are going to disclose themselves, WWIII gonna break out, shits gon be lit fam.




DEFCON is at alert status 3 same as the cuban missile crisis ans september 11 :uhoh:




Can you phrase that in color coding? Is that orange? More a sea foam green? I'm really more left-brained person and can only have my alert status dictated by colors.


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: starfire_xes]
    #23739554 - 10/15/16 09:29 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
They sank a UAE flagged ship a couple of weeks ago and also previously fired at us ships.  It's not our fucking fault.  Take it to the conspiracy forum if you think it is us trying to stir up trouble.  Jesus christ.




Do you think it's actually Yemen that wants to play with the big buys, or are they    acting on someone elses behalf.


--------------------
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: qman] * 1
    #23739560 - 10/15/16 09:31 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Using your logic, we shouldnt stop illegal immigration because it will harm the GDP to debt ratio.





:lolwut:    No, illegals do harm debt to GDP.




You miss the point.

If we cant raise taxes on the rich, then we shouldnt deport illegals. For the same reason.


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: qman]
    #23739960 - 10/15/16 01:17 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
If we follow your line of reasoning, we should take in the worlds sick and leave the US taxpayer with the bill, this country can't afford it since we're already broke.



The bill for what exactly?

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
...illegals don't come here to smash windows.  They come to grow our food, to clean our houses, to build things, and many, many other quality GDP contributions.



Is taking jobs away from US citizens a "contribution"?



I'll explain this once again since you seem to have forgotten.  There is not a fixed number of jobs.  The more people that contribute to society, the more people get paid, the more that spend money, the more jobs are created.  That's why unemployment doesn't go up as population rises.

Quote:

qman said:
What about lowering the wages of US citizens?



I'll explain this once again since you seem to have forgotten.  Unemployment is currently back to normal, including U6.  There isn't currently an excess supply of labor, so the labor pool isn't what's keeping wages down.


--------------------
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23740285 - 10/15/16 03:48 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Using your logic, we shouldnt stop illegal immigration because it will harm the GDP to debt ratio.





:lolwut:    No, illegals do harm debt to GDP.




You miss the point.

If we cant raise taxes on the rich, then we shouldnt deport illegals. For the same reason.




What reason?


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23740297 - 10/15/16 03:54 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
If we follow your line of reasoning, we should take in the worlds sick and leave the US taxpayer with the bill, this country can't afford it since we're already broke.



The bill for what exactly?

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
...illegals don't come here to smash windows.  They come to grow our food, to clean our houses, to build things, and many, many other quality GDP contributions.



Is taking jobs away from US citizens a "contribution"?



I'll explain this once again since you seem to have forgotten.  There is not a fixed number of jobs.  The more people that contribute to society, the more people get paid, the more that spend money, the more jobs are created.  That's why unemployment doesn't go up as population rises.

Quote:

qman said:
What about lowering the wages of US citizens?



I'll explain this once again since you seem to have forgotten.  Unemployment is currently back to normal, including U6.  There isn't currently an excess supply of labor, so the labor pool isn't what's keeping wages down.




"The bill"

For free health care and the million other freebies they leech off of the US taxpayer.

"There is not a fixed number of jobs"

In many industries there is a FIXED number jobs, do you think GE or Ford start hiring more people when illegals come over the border?  :huxleyfacepalm: 

"There isn't currently an excess pool of labor"

Total nonsense.


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: qman]
    #23740787 - 10/15/16 08:27 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Quote:

starfire_xes said:
They sank a UAE flagged ship a couple of weeks ago and also previously fired at us ships.  It's not our fucking fault.  Take it to the conspiracy forum if you think it is us trying to stir up trouble.  Jesus christ.




Do you think it's actually Yemen that wants to play with the big buys, or are they    acting on someone elses behalf.





They are funded by Iran.  you know, the Iran that Ball-less Bama just gave a shitload of our money too?  Where do you think that money goes?  Hmmmmm....radar stations and anti-ship missiles in Yemen?  :smirk:


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: starfire_xes]
    #23740796 - 10/15/16 08:30 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Yemen, Arabic Mogadishu .. fuck those sand mohhwts..


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: orison] * 1
    #23741011 - 10/15/16 10:18 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
If we follow your line of reasoning, we should take in the worlds sick and leave the US taxpayer with the bill, this country can't afford it since we're already broke.



The bill for what exactly?



For free health care and the million other freebies they leech off of the US taxpayer.



Illegals don't get free healthcare.  Emergency rooms have to treat them if they come in with life threatening injuries, but it's most certainly NOT free.  Sure some people can't afford to pay, so what do you want to do with them, let them die?  (maybe I shouldn't ask someone who hates immigrants)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I'll explain this once again since you seem to have forgotten.  There is not a fixed number of jobs.  The more people that contribute to society, the more people get paid, the more that spend money, the more jobs are created.  That's why unemployment doesn't go up as population rises.




In many industries there is a FIXED number jobs, do you think GE or Ford start hiring more people when illegals come over the border?  :huxleyfacepalm:



No.  They start hiring more people when immigrants buy their cars they otherwise couldn't afford.  :cookiemonster:

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
What about lowering the wages of US citizens?



I'll explain this once again since you seem to have forgotten.  Unemployment is currently back to normal, including U6.  There isn't currently an excess supply of labor, so the labor pool isn't what's keeping wages down.



Total nonsense.



How do measure if the labor market is tight or not?  Unemployment.  I've shown over and over and over that unemployment, including U6 is back to normal.  I've also provided many other reasons why people are being underpaid.

Your hatred of immigrants trumps your logic.  Either prove illegals are taking jobs while not creating new ones, or stop your make believe conservative nonsense.


--------------------
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23741635 - 10/16/16 07:52 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

"Illegals don't get free healthcare...people can't afford to pay"

:rolleyes:

"start hiring more people when immigrants buy their cars"

Yeah, picking fruit and cleaning toilets for $6 per hour really has Ford cranking up the production line. :rofl2:

"How do you measure if the labor market is tight or not?"

Like people in the business world always have- WAGES!!!


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: qman] * 1
    #23741703 - 10/16/16 08:34 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Using your logic, we shouldnt stop illegal immigration because it will harm the GDP to debt ratio.





:lolwut:    No, illegals do harm debt to GDP.




You miss the point.

If we cant raise taxes on the rich, then we shouldnt deport illegals. For the same reason.




What reason?




Because itll hurt the economy :feelsbadman:


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23742262 - 10/16/16 11:49 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Why doesn't someone get this back on topic?  The Houthis fired at a US Ship again this morning, and unamed whitehouse sources said even the most optimistic of administration officials are beginning to say that the deal with Iran was a big mistake.

I TOLD YOU SO. :smug:


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: starfire_xes] * 2
    #23742278 - 10/16/16 11:53 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

What does the Iran deal have to do with rebels in Iran, other than that they are both Shia muslims?


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23742347 - 10/16/16 12:13 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

How do you think the rebels get their money for weapons?


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: starfire_xes]
    #23742644 - 10/16/16 01:54 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

The same way the Yemeni government does.


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23743044 - 10/16/16 04:11 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

What the deal with Iran had to do with it is that the US gave them CASH.  That is the preferred method for international arms dealings. 

face it, Ball-less Bama and John Crappy blew it with probably the worst strategic deal in the last 50 years.  Bama doesn't know shit about international relationships.

And don't cry 'but the republicans....' :tard: because those fucking morons don't have the balls to stop the nonsense, they are complicit.


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: starfire_xes]
    #23743589 - 10/16/16 07:09 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Honestly I think the Iran deal was made to set them up for failure.

"Here's your chance to have a clean nuclear program."

two years later..."welp we found evidence of WMD we gotta invade. Whats that, international community? Oh no, no, we gave them a chance! And they terrorist'd!"


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23743593 - 10/16/16 07:10 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Shit or maybe we did it to force the Saudis to keep buying weapons from us. Who knows.


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23743676 - 10/16/16 07:33 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

How about apply9ing OCCam's Razor?  Obama is a fucking clueless idiot who doesn't know what he is doing or who he is dealing with?


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: starfire_xes]
    #23743699 - 10/16/16 07:37 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Obama isnt making these decisions on his own.


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: qman]
    #23743737 - 10/16/16 07:49 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
"Illegals don't get free healthcare...people can't afford to pay"

:rolleyes:



Again, it's NOT free, so stop being deceptive.  Some people can't afford it, and the same is true for American citizens.  Do you think we should let those people die?!?

Quote:

qman said:
Yeah, picking fruit and cleaning toilets for $6 per hour really has Ford cranking up the production line. :rofl2:




Most make well over $6/hour so stop being deceptive.  And yes, even people who earn $15,000 a year spend money.  Probably damn near ALL of the money they make.

Quote:

qman said:
"How do you measure if the labor market is tight or not?"

Like people in the business world always have- WAGES!!!



I AM in the business world, and I know that income has little to do with how tight the labor market or how much a person is worth to a company.  Corporations have tables that tell them what they should pay someone based solely on their profession.  If you're a fast food worker, you get close to minimum wage, regardless of how much you make for your company, etc.  The only thing that's going to change those tables is stronger union representation, or a higher minimum wage.

PLUS, I've already shown with empirical evidence that there is NO CORRELATION between unemployment and wages:



However, there is a HUGE correlation between union membership and income inequality:



Please provide evidence to support your claims or stop making them up.


--------------------
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #23743816 - 10/16/16 08:21 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Why doesn't someone get this back on topic?  The Houthis fired at a US Ship again this morning, and unamed whitehouse sources said even the most optimistic of administration officials are beginning to say that the deal with Iran was a big mistake.

I TOLD YOU SO. :smug:




What does the Iran deal have to do with rebels in Iran, other than that they are both Shia muslims?



Exactly.  It's not like this wouldn't have happened without the US money.

This is a serious incident - the big question is whether we're trying to enter a war with Yemen, or the other way around.  I SERIOUSLY doubt it's the latter.


--------------------
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #23743839 - 10/16/16 08:32 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Exactly, hence my comment about the Gulf of Tonkin.


Makes no sense theyd launch some half assed missiles at a US Navy destroyer.


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23743971 - 10/16/16 09:33 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Agreed.  :thumbup:


--------------------
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23744545 - 10/17/16 05:36 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Oh yeah?  Go read about Operation Praying Mantis.  I was there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Praying_Mantis

The IRanians are not our friends.  Take the head out before you suffocate.


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: starfire_xes] * 1
    #23744777 - 10/17/16 08:15 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

more non sequiturs weeeeee


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23744904 - 10/17/16 09:10 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

The Iranians know Obama is a paper tiger.  They are jerking his chain. 


Oh, I see your logic now.  Obama makes this deal, gives them boatloads of cash, in some kind of 'peace effort' or whatever his reasoning was, then turns around and fakes attacks against us so he can attack them. 

Wow, BRILLIANT.


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: starfire_xes]
    #23745104 - 10/17/16 10:24 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Obama makes this deal, gives them boatloads of cash, in some kind of 'peace effort' or whatever his reasoning was, then turns around and fakes attacks against us so he can attack them. 

Wow, BRILLIANT.



I don't understand your post.  Do you believe Yemen wants to go to war with the US?


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23746528 - 10/17/16 05:39 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

No.  I believe IRAN wants to fuck with the US because there is no way Ball-less Bama the Great Black Dope is going to 'ruin his legacy'  They've done it before, they are still doing it.  It's like the hostage crisis during carters term. 

The Iran 'Students' that had captured the american embassy started dancing and making noise around the soviet embassy.  It stopped because the Russian premier gave them a call and told them if they took Russia's embassy personnel hostages, then the day after there wouldn't be any more Iran.

It's the difference between a credible threat and an empty telegraphed motion--like the line in the sand--where the other side knows they can do anything without consequence. 

Basically, the Obama administration, after 'securing their legacy' with the idiotic iran deal, are like a bunch of tame old circus lions, full of food, who can be lightly baited with impunity.


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: starfire_xes]
    #23746579 - 10/17/16 05:59 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I'm in favor of the Iran deal, and even if we are fighting via proxy in Yemen, our relationship w/Iran will hopefully
carry through and continue to improve. Having the Shia (Iran), Sunni (Saudia Arabia), and Turkish powerhouses of
the middle east nominally aligned with the United States just might permit the region some stability.

Poor Houthis though


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'I am all for resources being allocated to the widowed single mother of 3, lost husband over seas fighting for our country. I am for vets getting mental health access and resources following war. I am not for free money cause a woman can't close her legs or some chump with low testosterone no going to work cause "i'm sad."' -finalexplosion
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: Crumist] * 1
    #23747116 - 10/17/16 08:28 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

What is Iran's end game if they are actually trying to be aggressors?

"Lets build nukes and agitate the Saudis, thatll piss off the US."

And then what? They go the way of Iraq. The current regime is dismantled. Hundreds of thousands die. Economy grinds to a halt....


Come on, starfire. Youre not that naive. WE are the agitators here. We're trying to force Iran into doing something reckless, so we have carte blanche to go in and topple their government (again).


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic] * 2
    #23747292 - 10/17/16 09:17 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Come on, starfire. Youre not that naive. WE are the agitators here. We're trying to force Iran into doing something reckless, so we have carte blanche to go in and topple their government (again).




And then afterwards, people will put up a big stink about iranian refugees.


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23747507 - 10/17/16 10:57 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Dude, they fired two missiles at our ships that almost hit. They could have killed a lot of people. Fuck that country, I'm glad we hit it.

Frankly, we should flatten their entire government just on principle as an example to the others. Don't fuck with us. You fire missiles at us, you get completely destroyed.

Besides, that country is a shithole anyway, it's not like we're destroying much.


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: nooneman] * 4
    #23748443 - 10/18/16 10:01 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Do you really think like this? Might makes right?
No Americans get hurt but you want to invade and risk the lives of thousands of Americans
and millions of Iranian civilians? For what? To soothe a slight to some projection of your ego?
Fuck that.

EDIT: I may have missed the sarcasm in the post above :wow:


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'I am all for resources being allocated to the widowed single mother of 3, lost husband over seas fighting for our country. I am for vets getting mental health access and resources following war. I am not for free money cause a woman can't close her legs or some chump with low testosterone no going to work cause "i'm sad."' -finalexplosion
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Edited by Crumist (10/18/16 10:04 AM)


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: Crumist]
    #23750666 - 10/18/16 10:53 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

America wants to take over the world! Some other countries want to also, it will be a fight to the death.


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: ballsalsa] * 3
    #23751539 - 10/19/16 10:03 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Come on, starfire. Youre not that naive. WE are the agitators here. We're trying to force Iran into doing something reckless, so we have carte blanche to go in and topple their government (again).




And then afterwards, people will put up a big stink about iranian refugees.




And blame the Iranians for trying to run away from a mess they obviously caused on their own.


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23751620 - 10/19/16 10:35 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Come on, starfire. Youre not that naive. WE are the agitators here. We're trying to force Iran into doing something reckless, so we have carte blanche to go in and topple their government (again).




And then afterwards, people will put up a big stink about iranian refugees.




And blame the Iranians for trying to run away from a mess they obviously caused on their own.




Many have already illegally entered the EU for a better standard of living, who's fault is that?


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: qman] * 1
    #23751636 - 10/19/16 10:41 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

There are millions of refugees coming from a very wide geographical area and therefore we can't point to 1 singlular cause, but if you put a gun to my head and forced me to choose I'd say its probably colonialism's fault :shrug:


--------------------
'I am all for resources being allocated to the widowed single mother of 3, lost husband over seas fighting for our country. I am for vets getting mental health access and resources following war. I am not for free money cause a woman can't close her legs or some chump with low testosterone no going to work cause "i'm sad."' -finalexplosion
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: Crumist]
    #23751659 - 10/19/16 10:54 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crumist said:
There are millions of refugees coming from a very wide geographical area and therefore we can't point to 1 singlular cause, but if you put a gun to my head and forced me to choose I'd say its probably colonialism's fault :shrug:




They're NOT "refugees", finally Merkel, EU leaders and the UN have acknowledge the very vast majority are economic migrants looking for a better standard of living.

"colonialism's fault"

Of course you would because that's your mentality, who's fault is it that Africa's population is exploding and they're flooding into the EU as a result?  People that don't like wearing condoms.


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: qman] * 2
    #23751674 - 10/19/16 11:03 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

So to prove that colonialism is not at fault for a region mired in conflict, you're gonna use Africa as a counterexample to the ME?  It just seems like an odd choice to me.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: qman] * 1
    #23752705 - 10/19/16 05:43 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Come on, starfire. Youre not that naive. WE are the agitators here. We're trying to force Iran into doing something reckless, so we have carte blanche to go in and topple their government (again).




And then afterwards, people will put up a big stink about iranian refugees.




And blame the Iranians for trying to run away from a mess they obviously caused on their own.




Many have already illegally entered the EU for a better standard of living, who's fault is that?




A lot of people.


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: qman]
    #23753281 - 10/19/16 09:13 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:They're NOT "refugees", finally Merkel, EU leaders and the UN have acknowledge the very vast majority are economic migrants looking for a better standard of living




They ARE refugees.


--------------------
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: Crumist]
    #23753302 - 10/19/16 09:18 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Looks like a lot of people trying to get out of third world shit-holes with the goal of getting someplace that has plenty of free stuff. Can't really blame them.


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: starfire_xes] * 2
    #23754644 - 10/20/16 11:53 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Not free stuff, just an opportunity to have something.

These people arent floating across the Mediterrannean on doors because they want food stamps, its because theyd rather risk drowning than stay where theyre at.

But as far as emigration destinations, sure, most are trying to get to the nations with the best social programs. Makes sense.


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: Crumist]
    #23754676 - 10/20/16 12:00 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crumist said:
Quote:

qman said:They're NOT "refugees", finally Merkel, EU leaders and the UN have acknowledge the very vast majority are economic migrants looking for a better standard of living




They ARE refugees.





"They ARE refugees"

The VAST majority are not refugees, the are economic migrants. 

Why would you believe some chart instead of EU leaders, Merkel and the UN? 

The EU opened its borders and people left their homelands for a higher standard of living, it's called basic commonsense.


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23754680 - 10/20/16 12:02 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Not free stuff, just an opportunity to have something.

These people arent floating across the Mediterrannean on doors because they want food stamps, its because theyd rather risk drowning than stay where theyre at.

But as far as emigration destinations, sure, most are trying to get to the nations with the best social programs. Makes sense.




"Not free stuff"

Yeah, "free stuff".  They're not paying for things once they get into the EU.


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: qman] * 4
    #23754720 - 10/20/16 12:15 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The VAST majority are not refugees, the are economic migrants





Do you have a source to substantiate this claim, yet?


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23754774 - 10/20/16 12:39 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)



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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: qman] * 3
    #23754927 - 10/20/16 01:41 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Only one of those links even attempts to address my question, the RT article.


And like I've told you the past several times youve quoted this source (maybe yours is the memory thats lacking), the "top EU official" is quoting a study that hasnt been released, or cant be found.



Your claim is based on the hearsay of one man, who cant cite a source to back himself up. So, I'll ask again:

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

The VAST majority are not refugees, the are economic migrants





Do you have a source to substantiate this claim, yet?





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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23754980 - 10/20/16 01:59 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

The Director of the UN- "Mr.Moller says the main reason people are fleeing Syria 'isn't crippling violence in the country...The number one reason why people leave Syria is not the bombs or the food or the cold, it's because they want to find educational opportunities for their children...every refugee is a migrant, not every migrant is a refugee"


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: qman] * 2
    #23754988 - 10/20/16 02:02 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah we've unpackaged that claim as well.

But if youre going to include the refugees as migrants in your "the vast majority of people are migrants not refugees" argument, well....you can see the problem there.


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic] * 3
    #23754996 - 10/20/16 02:05 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

qman only cares about this guy's opinions as a "top EU official" when it aligns, when he makes other statements that qman has disagreed with, qman just says he doesn't know what hes talking about.

also i dont think anyone made the argument that the existence of some pure economic migrants taking advantage of a mass migration routes should void refugee resettlement plans and hope you aren't making this point.. despite the fact that i'm always characterised as someone who just wants to let everyone in, i've actually spoken to the contrary and in criticism of how the process of resettlement has been undertaken..from the beginning. One can agree with the idea of refugee resettlement but disagree with the reality of how an uncoordinated and disorganised EU deals with the crisis..

No one disputed that there are economic migrants, but you haven't been able to show how they are a majority. You also can't seem to understand that there can be multiple reasons behind a move. If you leave a wartorn country because your prospects are nonexistant because of the war, surely that can be seen as both being an economic migrant and a refugee.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: Tipote] * 3
    #23755027 - 10/20/16 02:17 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Not only a majority, a VAST majority.


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23755098 - 10/20/16 02:37 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Yeah we've unpackaged that claim as well.

But if youre going to include the refugees as migrants in your "the vast majority of people are migrants not refugees" argument, well....you can see the problem there.




You really don't even have a clue, you do realize the host country defines what qualifies as refugee status and what doesn't.

That means it's open to interpretation, what you or I think is immaterial.  When Merkel and Tusk say they're economic migrants and they are going to be deported, then they're economic migrants.


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: qman] * 2
    #23755106 - 10/20/16 02:40 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Has Merkel said "a vast majority of these people are economic migrants and not refugees?"

If so, wheres she getting her information? A source unavailable to us?


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23755161 - 10/20/16 02:57 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Has Merkel said "a vast majority of these people are economic migrants and not refugees?"

If so, wheres she getting her information? A source unavailable to us?




I works like this, if the German and EU citizens are "OK" with these people, they're mostly "refugees".  If the populations have major issue, they're now classified as "economic migrants".


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: qman] * 2
    #23755197 - 10/20/16 03:11 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

So its completely arbitrary.


I accept your apology.


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23756202 - 10/20/16 09:16 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

so now it is established.  economic migrant=refugee.  Its funny how people can get mixed up by words that mean the same thing.  It's like how if you ask someone "do you think that the government should spy on innocent americans?"  and "do you think the government should spy on suspected terrorists?"  you'll probably get different answers from the same person.


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23756228 - 10/20/16 09:28 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
So its completely arbitrary.


I accept your apology.




There's no apology for speaking the truth.


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