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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: Crumist]
    #23753302 - 10/19/16 09:18 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Looks like a lot of people trying to get out of third world shit-holes with the goal of getting someplace that has plenty of free stuff. Can't really blame them.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: starfire_xes] * 2
    #23754644 - 10/20/16 11:53 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Not free stuff, just an opportunity to have something.

These people arent floating across the Mediterrannean on doors because they want food stamps, its because theyd rather risk drowning than stay where theyre at.

But as far as emigration destinations, sure, most are trying to get to the nations with the best social programs. Makes sense.


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Offlineqman
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: Crumist]
    #23754676 - 10/20/16 12:00 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crumist said:
Quote:

qman said:They're NOT "refugees", finally Merkel, EU leaders and the UN have acknowledge the very vast majority are economic migrants looking for a better standard of living




They ARE refugees.





"They ARE refugees"

The VAST majority are not refugees, the are economic migrants. 

Why would you believe some chart instead of EU leaders, Merkel and the UN? 

The EU opened its borders and people left their homelands for a higher standard of living, it's called basic commonsense.


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Offlineqman
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23754680 - 10/20/16 12:02 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Not free stuff, just an opportunity to have something.

These people arent floating across the Mediterrannean on doors because they want food stamps, its because theyd rather risk drowning than stay where theyre at.

But as far as emigration destinations, sure, most are trying to get to the nations with the best social programs. Makes sense.




"Not free stuff"

Yeah, "free stuff".  They're not paying for things once they get into the EU.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: qman] * 4
    #23754720 - 10/20/16 12:15 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The VAST majority are not refugees, the are economic migrants





Do you have a source to substantiate this claim, yet?


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Offlineqman
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23754774 - 10/20/16 12:39 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)



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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: qman] * 3
    #23754927 - 10/20/16 01:41 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Only one of those links even attempts to address my question, the RT article.


And like I've told you the past several times youve quoted this source (maybe yours is the memory thats lacking), the "top EU official" is quoting a study that hasnt been released, or cant be found.



Your claim is based on the hearsay of one man, who cant cite a source to back himself up. So, I'll ask again:

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

The VAST majority are not refugees, the are economic migrants





Do you have a source to substantiate this claim, yet?





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Offlineqman
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23754980 - 10/20/16 01:59 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

The Director of the UN- "Mr.Moller says the main reason people are fleeing Syria 'isn't crippling violence in the country...The number one reason why people leave Syria is not the bombs or the food or the cold, it's because they want to find educational opportunities for their children...every refugee is a migrant, not every migrant is a refugee"


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: qman] * 2
    #23754988 - 10/20/16 02:02 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah we've unpackaged that claim as well.

But if youre going to include the refugees as migrants in your "the vast majority of people are migrants not refugees" argument, well....you can see the problem there.


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OfflineTipote
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic] * 3
    #23754996 - 10/20/16 02:05 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

qman only cares about this guy's opinions as a "top EU official" when it aligns, when he makes other statements that qman has disagreed with, qman just says he doesn't know what hes talking about.

also i dont think anyone made the argument that the existence of some pure economic migrants taking advantage of a mass migration routes should void refugee resettlement plans and hope you aren't making this point.. despite the fact that i'm always characterised as someone who just wants to let everyone in, i've actually spoken to the contrary and in criticism of how the process of resettlement has been undertaken..from the beginning. One can agree with the idea of refugee resettlement but disagree with the reality of how an uncoordinated and disorganised EU deals with the crisis..

No one disputed that there are economic migrants, but you haven't been able to show how they are a majority. You also can't seem to understand that there can be multiple reasons behind a move. If you leave a wartorn country because your prospects are nonexistant because of the war, surely that can be seen as both being an economic migrant and a refugee.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: Tipote] * 3
    #23755027 - 10/20/16 02:17 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Not only a majority, a VAST majority.


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Offlineqman
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23755098 - 10/20/16 02:37 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Yeah we've unpackaged that claim as well.

But if youre going to include the refugees as migrants in your "the vast majority of people are migrants not refugees" argument, well....you can see the problem there.




You really don't even have a clue, you do realize the host country defines what qualifies as refugee status and what doesn't.

That means it's open to interpretation, what you or I think is immaterial.  When Merkel and Tusk say they're economic migrants and they are going to be deported, then they're economic migrants.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: qman] * 2
    #23755106 - 10/20/16 02:40 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Has Merkel said "a vast majority of these people are economic migrants and not refugees?"

If so, wheres she getting her information? A source unavailable to us?


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Offlineqman
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23755161 - 10/20/16 02:57 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Has Merkel said "a vast majority of these people are economic migrants and not refugees?"

If so, wheres she getting her information? A source unavailable to us?




I works like this, if the German and EU citizens are "OK" with these people, they're mostly "refugees".  If the populations have major issue, they're now classified as "economic migrants".


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: qman] * 2
    #23755197 - 10/20/16 03:11 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

So its completely arbitrary.


I accept your apology.


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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23756202 - 10/20/16 09:16 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

so now it is established.  economic migrant=refugee.  Its funny how people can get mixed up by words that mean the same thing.  It's like how if you ask someone "do you think that the government should spy on innocent americans?"  and "do you think the government should spy on suspected terrorists?"  you'll probably get different answers from the same person.


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Offlineqman
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23756228 - 10/20/16 09:28 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
So its completely arbitrary.


I accept your apology.




There's no apology for speaking the truth.


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