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qman
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic]
#23736946 - 10/14/16 12:03 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
qman said:
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The Ecstatic said: Every single time I bring up how tax cuts caused the deficit and debt to skyrocket, he reverts back to his debt to GDP ratio argument. As if that trickle down mentality isnt what got us there...
What makes you think I'm arguing "trickle down"? 
Your entire post history.
If we've all got you wrong, please clarify. The deficit, debt, and gdp to debt ratio were all greatly exacerbated by tax cuts for the wealthy. And you dont want to raise those even close to where they were in the 60s, so whats the plan?
I think I showed that spending increases contributed to the debt and tax revenue has remained constant relative to GDP. Maybe we can't afford what we want (social services and military).
Maybe higher tax rates on the wealthy would help, again tax rates and actual collection are two different things.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: qman]
#23736958 - 10/14/16 12:08 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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You dont think a reduced tax revenue affects GDP?
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qman
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic]
#23736977 - 10/14/16 12:17 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: You dont think a reduced tax revenue affects GDP?
Tax revenue is usually a reflection of GDP.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: qman] 3
#23737246 - 10/14/16 02:02 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Unless you cut taxes in half. Correlation is not causation, remember...
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qman
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic]
#23737281 - 10/14/16 02:13 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Unless you cut taxes in half. Correlation is not causation, remember...
Thinking that hiking taxes automatically raises more tax revenue is a logical fallacy, it might raise more revenue, it might not.
Even the CBO does a horrible job at forecasting this outcome, for some strange reason they always error on the side of optimism.
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starfire_xes
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic]
#23737551 - 10/14/16 03:42 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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They sank a UAE flagged ship a couple of weeks ago and also previously fired at us ships. It's not our fucking fault. Take it to the conspiracy forum if you think it is us trying to stir up trouble. Jesus christ.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: qman]
#23737624 - 10/14/16 04:08 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: Are you suggesting that GDP can't go higher simply because of population growth rates?
No, I'm simply arguing GDP growth has been relatively constant per capita. If 10% of the population left the country, then I would expect GDP to go down accordingly, because there are fewer people producing things.
Quote:
qman said: If so, why do you even argue against income inequality? A pick up in demand would increase GDP regardless of population growth.
You're right - a pickup in demand would increase GDP. So would bringing in more immigrants, so why do you argue against that if you want a larger GDP?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: qman]
#23737640 - 10/14/16 04:14 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: Thinking that hiking taxes automatically raises more tax revenue is a logical fallacy, it might raise more revenue, it might not.
No, it's not a logical fallacy, it's a mathematical fact.
The reason we don't always see a clear correlation is because when one tax is raised (or lowered), another tax is usually lowered (or raised) to compensate.
For example, the reason we didn't see a drop in tax revenue when we cut taxes for the rich is because we increased payroll taxes, making the total revenue about the same.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: qman]
#23737694 - 10/14/16 04:34 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Unless you cut taxes in half. Correlation is not causation, remember...
Thinking that hiking taxes automatically raises more tax revenue is a logical fallacy, it might raise more revenue, it might not.
Even the CBO does a horrible job at forecasting this outcome, for some strange reason they always error on the side of optimism. 
For the most part, it does raise revenue. The other times are when we've raised taxes duruing an economic downturn, or there are other larger external factors at play, but again, thats correlation.
I'm not trying to say that raising taxes is gonna fix everything. But it will fix some things. And harm no one but the people who can, and should, take it.
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qman
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#23738632 - 10/14/16 09:51 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
qman said: Are you suggesting that GDP can't go higher simply because of population growth rates?
No, I'm simply arguing GDP growth has been relatively constant per capita. If 10% of the population left the country, then I would expect GDP to go down accordingly, because there are fewer people producing things.
Quote:
qman said: If so, why do you even argue against income inequality? A pick up in demand would increase GDP regardless of population growth.
You're right - a pickup in demand would increase GDP. So would bringing in more immigrants, so why do you argue against that if you want a larger GDP?
So would smashing all the windows in my home, it's about the quality of GDP. An Illegal racking up $100k in an emergency room is NOT positive GDP.
Real consumer demand increases would create positive GDP growth instead of this 1% crap that you think is our destiny.
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ballsalsa
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic] 1
#23738640 - 10/14/16 09:58 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Every single time I bring up how tax cuts caused the deficit and debt to skyrocket, he reverts back to his debt to GDP ratio argument. As if that trickle down mentality isnt what got us there...
What makes you think I'm arguing "trickle down"? 
Your entire post history.
If we've all got you wrong, please clarify. The deficit, debt, and gdp to debt ratio were all greatly exacerbated by tax cuts for the wealthy. And you dont want to raise those even close to where they were in the 60s, so whats the plan?
these exchanges are so much more funny now that there is a thread to state where we stand on the issues. The whole point was to stop wasting time playing guessing games.
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Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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Crumist
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: qman]
#23738764 - 10/14/16 11:02 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:So would smashing all the windows in my home, it's about the quality of GDP. An Illegal racking up $100k in an emergency room is NOT positive GDP.
So would a native born citizen. Neither are 'positive' GDP. Is the issue the cause of the emergency visit or is it the legal status of the human being in the bed? Is the value of a mans life how he factors into the national balance-sheet?
-------------------- 'I am all for resources being allocated to the widowed single mother of 3, lost husband over seas fighting for our country. I am for vets getting mental health access and resources following war. I am not for free money cause a woman can't close her legs or some chump with low testosterone no going to work cause "i'm sad."' -finalexplosion Nice knowin ya'll! https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23904704/vc/1#23904704
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: Crumist] 1
#23739035 - 10/15/16 01:34 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crumist said:
Quote:
qman said:So would smashing all the windows in my home, it's about the quality of GDP. An Illegal racking up $100k in an emergency room is NOT positive GDP.
So would a native born citizen. Neither are 'positive' GDP.
Exactly. I'm astounded qman says things like that - as if illegals come here to hurt themselves so they can take advantage of our emergency rooms more than the native population.
And illegals don't come here to smash windows. They come to grow our food, to clean our houses, to build things, and many, many other quality GDP contributions.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: ballsalsa] 1
#23739080 - 10/15/16 02:14 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Every single time I bring up how tax cuts caused the deficit and debt to skyrocket, he reverts back to his debt to GDP ratio argument. As if that trickle down mentality isnt what got us there...
What makes you think I'm arguing "trickle down"? 
Your entire post history.
If we've all got you wrong, please clarify. The deficit, debt, and gdp to debt ratio were all greatly exacerbated by tax cuts for the wealthy. And you dont want to raise those even close to where they were in the 60s, so whats the plan?
these exchanges are so much more funny now that there is a thread to state where we stand on the issues. The whole point was to stop wasting time playing guessing games.
lol exactly, and youll notice who hasnt posted in it yet. All the usual suspects.
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qman
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: Crumist]
#23739402 - 10/15/16 08:06 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crumist said:
Quote:
qman said:So would smashing all the windows in my home, it's about the quality of GDP. An Illegal racking up $100k in an emergency room is NOT positive GDP.
So would a native born citizen. Neither are 'positive' GDP. Is the issue the cause of the emergency visit or is it the legal status of the human being in the bed? Is the value of a mans life how he factors into the national balance-sheet?
If we follow your line of reasoning, we should take in the worlds sick and leave the US taxpayer with the bill, this country can't afford it since we're already broke.
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qman
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#23739411 - 10/15/16 08:11 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Crumist said:
Quote:
qman said:So would smashing all the windows in my home, it's about the quality of GDP. An Illegal racking up $100k in an emergency room is NOT positive GDP.
So would a native born citizen. Neither are 'positive' GDP.
Exactly. I'm astounded qman says things like that - as if illegals come here to hurt themselves so they can take advantage of our emergency rooms more than the native population.
And illegals don't come here to smash windows. They come to grow our food, to clean our houses, to build things, and many, many other quality GDP contributions.
"many other quality GDP contributions"
Is taking jobs away from US citizens a "contribution"?
What about lowering the wages of US citizens?
What about using 8 times more in tax revenue than they contribute to the tax base?
They contribute to only one thing, higher profit margins for the top 1% at the expense of the other 99%.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: qman]
#23739489 - 10/15/16 09:01 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Using your logic, we shouldnt stop illegal immigration because it will harm the GDP to debt ratio.
After all, the only people who benefit from historically low tax rates on the 1% are....the 1%, at the expense of the other 99%. And we cant change that either.
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qman
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: The Ecstatic]
#23739520 - 10/15/16 09:11 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Using your logic, we shouldnt stop illegal immigration because it will harm the GDP to debt ratio.
No, illegals do harm debt to GDP.
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Revok
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: tHEfLY]
#23739531 - 10/15/16 09:15 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
tHEfLY said:
Quote:
Fennario said: 2017, shits gone be poppin off, aliens are going to disclose themselves, WWIII gonna break out, shits gon be lit fam.
DEFCON is at alert status 3 same as the cuban missile crisis ans september 11 
Can you phrase that in color coding? Is that orange? More a sea foam green? I'm really more left-brained person and can only have my alert status dictated by colors.
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Brian Jones
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Re: US Warships Now Shelling Yemen "In Self Defense" [Re: starfire_xes]
#23739554 - 10/15/16 09:29 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
starfire_xes said: They sank a UAE flagged ship a couple of weeks ago and also previously fired at us ships. It's not our fucking fault. Take it to the conspiracy forum if you think it is us trying to stir up trouble. Jesus christ.
Do you think it's actually Yemen that wants to play with the big buys, or are they acting on someone elses behalf.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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