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OfflineThanatos10
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Dreams vs Reality
    #23729286 - 10/11/16 07:38 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

http://lucidability.com/dreams-vs-reality/

The above link got me thinking, if one did have the chance to dream forever and be in a realm where you could get whatever you wanted, why would you want to wake? What is so great about the waking world that would make rise from such a dream. If you can just create a better world when you sleep, why bother doing anything in the waking one?

It weighs heavy on my mind.


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As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Dreams vs Reality [Re: Thanatos10]
    #23729296 - 10/11/16 07:44 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

The entire world confuses fantasy and reality.  Dreams are fantasy.  Fantasy has dangers.  We use fantasy to think, to play, to solve problems.  The past, present and future are all there in our fantastic minds.  I think the spirit world is fantasy.  We don't know what will come to us, as in living life.  We can depend on the past, getting some in the future and influencing our desire, fear, all that stuff.  I have never had the perfect fantasy or dream, nor life.  Probably never even a perfect death as even perfection passes and requires improvement.  If there were no improvement or depth to travel there would be no purpose.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Dreams vs Reality [Re: Thanatos10]
    #23729314 - 10/11/16 07:51 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

nothing new here

this is essentially the choice junkies make

because conventional culture stigmatizes heroin we fail to realize many other choices are essentially similar

only  curiosity about the distinction between awareness and the perceptions that occur within awareness offer an alternative to attachment to seemingly preferred perceptions.

this is apparently a point that is too subtle for even many people far more intelligent than myself to get.

due to the subtlety, and my own beginner level, I suggest starting here:



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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Dreams vs Reality [Re: laughingdog]
    #23729340 - 10/11/16 08:02 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
nothing new here

this is essentially the choice junkies make

because conventional culture stigmatizes heroin we fail to realize many other choices are essentially similar

only  curiosity about the distinction between awareness and the perceptions that occur within awareness offer an alternative to attachment to seemingly preferred perceptions.

this is apparently a point that is too subtle for even many people far more intelligent than myself to get.

due to the subtlety, and my own beginner level, I suggest starting here:






That doesn't really answer my question.


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As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Dreams vs Reality [Re: laughingdog] * 1
    #23729342 - 10/11/16 08:03 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

it is hard to get the dream right


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InvisibleLeviticus969
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Re: Dreams vs Reality [Re: Thanatos10]
    #23729359 - 10/11/16 08:10 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Dreams are bad ass. Lucid dreams are even more badass. Like, about 200 times more bad ass then the current waking life.

But notice how I said "current" waking life. Our waking physical lives have the potential to be equally as beautiful as our spiritual dream life. You have to be able to dream things first before you put things into reality.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Dreams vs Reality [Re: Thanatos10]
    #23729364 - 10/11/16 08:12 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:


That doesn't really answer my question.




that's because it depends on how you define :

"a better world"

"If you can just create a better world when you sleep, why bother doing anything in the waking one?"

most folks with a head ache take aspirin , without worrying about philosophy

on the other hand 

Buddhist monks don't

when you understand why that is, your question will be answered

if you don't understand why,

you will continue to complain. Or you could just shoot junk.

it is no ones' fault if you don't bother to investigate this for yourself.


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Dreams vs Reality [Re: laughingdog]
    #23729370 - 10/11/16 08:15 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
Quote:

Thanatos10 said:


That doesn't really answer my question.




that's because it depends on how you define :

"a better world"

"If you can just create a better world when you sleep, why bother doing anything in the waking one?"

most folks with a head ache take aspirin , without worrying about philosophy

on the other hand 

Buddhist monks don't

when you understand why that is, your question will be answered

if you don't understand why,

you will continue to complain. Or you could just shoot junk.

it is no ones' fault if you don't bother to investigate this for yourself.




I assume it has something to do with desire and attachment?


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Dreams vs Reality [Re: Leviticus969]
    #23729371 - 10/11/16 08:16 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Leviticus969 said:
Dreams are bad ass. Lucid dreams are even more badass. Like, about 200 times more bad ass then the current waking life.

But notice how I said "current" waking life. Our waking physical lives have the potential to be equally as beautiful as our spiritual dream life. You have to be able to dream things first before you put things into reality.




DO they really? Why bother with that when you could stay in such a world?


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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InvisibleLeviticus969
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Re: Dreams vs Reality [Re: Thanatos10] * 1
    #23729433 - 10/11/16 08:36 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Because we live in a dualistic world. We cant ignore the fact that we wake up after so many hours of sleeping.


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Dreams vs Reality [Re: Leviticus969]
    #23729447 - 10/11/16 08:42 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Leviticus969 said:
Because we live in a dualistic world. We cant ignore the fact that we wake up after so many hours of sleeping.




But what if (hypothetically) you didn't have to wake?


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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InvisibleHobozen
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Re: Dreams vs Reality [Re: Thanatos10]
    #23729589 - 10/11/16 09:43 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
http://lucidability.com/dreams-vs-reality/

The above link got me thinking, if one did have the chance to dream forever and be in a realm where you could get whatever you wanted, why would you want to wake? What is so great about the waking world that would make rise from such a dream. If you can just create a better world when you sleep, why bother doing anything in the waking one?

It weighs heavy on my mind.




Can you always create a better world when you sleep? There have been countless times when my dreams became unbearably horrifying and I had to wake myself up to escape them. I've gone to sleep to escape and I've woken up to escape.


Edited by Hobozen (10/11/16 11:55 PM)


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Dreams vs Reality [Re: Thanatos10]
    #23729665 - 10/11/16 10:05 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
...
I assume it has something to do with desire and attachment?




I do not claim to be an ‘enlightened’ spokes person for Buddhism. Forget the Buddhism, and conceptions you have about ‘detachment’.

Why do some people chose to be war corespondents, journalists, or photojournalists, rather than watch war movies?

it is a similar principle.

Anyone can think of many similar examples.

some prefer curiosity and some prefer security.

those who prefer security are motivated by fear.

arranging all experience ahead of time so it will invariably produce pleasure is actually not an expression of power, but rather is one of fear.
Simply put a life that is completely predictable lacks life!

Most of us find a balance between the two extremes. Our emotions help us with this. Many become bored when life is too comfortable, and then seek adventure. But at the end of the day many go home to a warm bath and familiar comforts. So most ‘normal’ humans find a balance, not thru logic, but by feeling.

Those who prefer paying attention to experience as it is, are simply healthier, and more full of life.

It all rather common sense.


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Dreams vs Reality [Re: laughingdog]
    #23729722 - 10/11/16 10:20 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Unattachment can be bad.  That is psychosis.  Having experienced psychosis and never really sure what reality is...there is always attachment.  Even when in a state of ecstasy there is attachment to destiny and something larger dreaming the bigger dream.  Too many directions to travel so sometimes a bit of detachment and realizing where we are is all there is need for.

I detached a good bit tonight.  My holding on causes me so much pain.  It causes torment because I cannot actualize something much more important than me.  Yet if this whole thing was unleashed it could do great damage.  That's why I don't do much as of drugs anymore.  That and accessibility but it's the fragments that come out without something greater as a whole.

I've seen people detach to normal fear under datura's spell.  PCP is no dream either when trauma bubbles up!


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Dreams vs Reality [Re: laughingdog]
    #23729831 - 10/11/16 10:50 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
...
I assume it has something to do with desire and attachment?




I do not claim to be an ‘enlightened’ spokes person for Buddhism. Forget the Buddhism, and conceptions you have about ‘detachment’.

Why do some people chose to be war corespondents, journalists, or photojournalists, rather than watch war movies?

it is a similar principle.

Anyone can think of many similar examples.

some prefer curiosity and some prefer security.

those who prefer security are motivated by fear.

arranging all experience ahead of time so it will invariably produce pleasure is actually not an expression of power, but rather is one of fear.
Simply put a life that is completely predictable lacks life!

Most of us find a balance between the two extremes. Our emotions help us with this. Many become bored when life is too comfortable, and then seek adventure. But at the end of the day many go home to a warm bath and familiar comforts. So most ‘normal’ humans find a balance, not thru logic, but by feeling.

Those who prefer paying attention to experience as it is, are simply healthier, and more full of life.

It all rather common sense.




SO "lucid dreaming" is more a method of "hiding"?

Also, what about what the link said?


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


Edited by Thanatos10 (10/11/16 10:51 PM)


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Invisiblepineninja
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Re: Dreams vs Reality [Re: Thanatos10] * 1
    #23729837 - 10/11/16 10:51 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

You can't have one without the other.


--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Dreams vs Reality [Re: pineninja]
    #23729925 - 10/11/16 11:25 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Lucid dreaming is being aware that you are aware that you are dreaming.  You might have some power over your dreamscape.  Deju vu is best when the memory is aware that you are having the experience.  I suppose out of body is also a detached observation.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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InvisibleLeviticus969
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Re: Dreams vs Reality [Re: Morel Guy]
    #23730226 - 10/12/16 04:42 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I'd like to hear scientist explain lucid dreams and deja vu.


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Invisiblewolfiewolfie
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Re: Dreams vs Reality [Re: Leviticus969] * 1
    #23731335 - 10/12/16 01:46 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

If you were to dream forever I'd assume you would eventually get bored of having everything you ever wanted and living in a perfect world.
You might then create conflict, inequality and suffering to keep yourself entertained.
This too would eventually get boring, so you might then 'play out' a story through a specific character, full of struggle and hardship to keep it interesting.
Finally, as this too begins to bore you, you might create a large number of random stories to experience and to eliminate the boredom once and for all, forfeit your lucidity while experiencing each characters story.

:O


--------------------


The only reason why T-rex's can't walk backwards is because they're extinct, which perfectly explains why there are no headaches in the rainforest; The parrots eat 'em all.

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InvisibleZacksJourney
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Re: Dreams vs Reality [Re: wolfiewolfie]
    #23731371 - 10/12/16 02:01 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I believe this will help a lot



--------------------


ALL MUSHROOMS ARE EDIBLE, some are just only edible once.

Trade List


Edited by ZacksJourney (10/12/16 02:04 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Dreams vs Reality [Re: Leviticus969]
    #23731405 - 10/12/16 02:16 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Leviticus969 said:
I'd like to hear scientist explain lucid dreams and deja vu.



this is a very simple explanation for you about deja vu (I have not ever addressed lucid dreams, but I think they are experiences of waking from the deep sleep and aware that you are dreaming)

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/3422475#3422475
also
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/3139427#3139427
maybe this is where you mean to go
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4729977#4729977

so yes while awakening from a dream you can easily feel stoned, or have deja vu.


--------------------
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InvisiblePenelope_Tree
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Re: Dreams vs Reality [Re: pineninja] * 3
    #23732525 - 10/12/16 09:12 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

pineninja said:
You can't have one without the other.





:thumbup: I think that is the most succinct way of getting to the root. At least in my conceptualization of it, the universe has fractalized itself in order to experience and understand itself. To quote Rumi, we are the entire ocean in a single drop. Without waking life to contrast against it, the dream loses its definition. We come to understand anything by investigating it's boundaries. Gestalt psychology takes into a step further and unites the singular with the whole. A nice circle back to where we started. We are living in the dream, all the time. :psychsplit:


--------------------
full blown human


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Offlinedoomshroom88
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Re: Dreams vs Reality [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #23732549 - 10/12/16 09:21 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

lucid dreaming is cool as hell. Ive heard its possible to train yourself into, through modified behavior while awake


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Dreams vs Reality [Re: doomshroom88]
    #23736269 - 10/14/16 07:58 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

But would it really be preferable to just stay in the dream rather than struggle through life?


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As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: Dreams vs Reality [Re: Thanatos10]
    #23737544 - 10/14/16 03:39 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

When you get Dejavu you can encode it to wake up in a dream...when the relevant information you are sensing is similar...

That is of course what Dejavu is for..including learning as well!


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Dreams vs Reality [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #23738580 - 10/14/16 09:18 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

BrendanFlock said:
When you get Dejavu you can encode it to wake up in a dream...when the relevant information you are sensing is similar...

That is of course what Dejavu is for..including learning as well!



well you can use it how you like, but Deja Vu is not a thing with a purpose, it is a side effect of the mind working normally (when more resonant than usual).
assuming that things like Deja Vu have purpose when they are  not artifacts of intention is too much of a stretch. when you stretch things that way, you lose your balance.


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: Dreams vs Reality [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23740585 - 10/15/16 06:23 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

hmm, losing balance is all about what dejavu is..


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Offlineblingbling
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Re: Dreams vs Reality [Re: Thanatos10]
    #23741155 - 10/15/16 11:37 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
http://lucidability.com/dreams-vs-reality/

The above link got me thinking, if one did have the chance to dream forever and be in a realm where you could get whatever you wanted, why would you want to wake? What is so great about the waking world that would make rise from such a dream. If you can just create a better world when you sleep, why bother doing anything in the waking one?

It weighs heavy on my mind.




I think there is something interesting about the grittiness of reality. In a dream reality where you could get everything you wanted it would be great, but it wouldn't have that exact interesting quality you get with our waking reality. In my more optimistic moments I find myself thinking that I would rather live an interesting life than a happy one.


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Dreams vs Reality [Re: blingbling]
    #23741609 - 10/16/16 07:33 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

this is something we can count on, but it is only interesting to who pays attention.


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