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herrenvolk


Registered: 05/14/16
Posts: 222
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Best Shroom Extraction Method?
#23724148 - 10/10/16 02:07 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hi guys i want to make psilocybin tincture.
I read many different methods but there is alot of contradicting information.
I feel like the simplest way is to use ethanol extraction and evaporate to volume. Then simply consume resulting liquid (probably mixed with drink). This will NOT yield pure psilocybin/psilocin but at least the loss would be minimal and the impurities shouldn't have a noticeable impact on the trip. Is this correct?
Also, how is the stability of such a liquid? Would it stay potent for months as long as kept in small bottles in cool dark place?
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TheGoat


Registered: 12/08/15
Posts: 224
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Re: Best Shroom Extraction Method? [Re: herrenvolk]
#23724158 - 10/10/16 02:23 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Following this thread. Also want to know.
-------------------- Hi I'm high. Anything posted by me related to cultivation or illegal activities is purely fictional. It is intended for educational or entertainment purposes only.
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FeedYerHead
Lurker



Registered: 05/02/16
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Re: Best Shroom Extraction Method? [Re: TheGoat]
#23724170 - 10/10/16 02:36 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I will link you guys a video which explains a lot about a similar method. BRB
-------------------- The Future Will Arrive On Time - Feed ..-"""-.. /** * * **\ :_.-:`:-._; (_) .\|/(_)\|/dwb
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FeedYerHead
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Re: Best Shroom Extraction Method? [Re: FeedYerHead]
#23724185 - 10/10/16 03:05 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Iight guys. Here ya go. https://youtu.be/H00mmYD8ZtQ
Im thinking about doing this when im up to 10g of copes
-------------------- The Future Will Arrive On Time - Feed ..-"""-.. /** * * **\ :_.-:`:-._; (_) .\|/(_)\|/dwb
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healing
Strangest



Registered: 02/22/11
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Loc: the universe, the milky w...
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Re: Best Shroom Extraction Method? [Re: FeedYerHead] 1
#23724207 - 10/10/16 03:29 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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The problem with tinctures is that they greatly increase the alkaloids' exposure to oxygen, allowing them to oxidize at a much higher rate.
This means that any extraction of psilocin and psilocybin will always degrade much more quickly than dried mushroom material. Whether or not this will be a problem depends on a number of factors including the method of storage and the length of time you intend to store the tincture. I don't think you will find a definitive answer on the shelf life of your particular tincture in your particular storage method, but if you're willing to try it there are some things you can do to extend it.
The easiest is to keep the tincture in an oxygen tight container. This along with storing it in as cold a place as possible will help a lot, but you can further extend the shelf life by eliminating oxygen from the container in which your tincture is stored. The cheapest way to do this is to replace it with carbon dioxide every time you use the tincture, before you put it back in storage. Carbon dioxide can be purchased in the form of dry ice, or quickly and easily produced at home with something like vinegar and baking soda. The carbon dioxide is much heavier than oxygen and an easily be poured into the container, displacing the oxygen.
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
Edited by healing (10/10/16 03:29 AM)
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FeedYerHead
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Re: Best Shroom Extraction Method? [Re: healing]
#23724215 - 10/10/16 03:38 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Great tip mane! Thank you.
You should watch the video and tell me what you think about the method used. Its 20 min, but you can skim threw some.
-------------------- The Future Will Arrive On Time - Feed ..-"""-.. /** * * **\ :_.-:`:-._; (_) .\|/(_)\|/dwb
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight



Registered: 09/02/13
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Re: Best Shroom Extraction Method? [Re: herrenvolk]
#23724262 - 10/10/16 05:02 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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The herrenvolk shot my grandpa in his foot when he came back from Drente with food for his family.
Anyway why would you do this to mushrooms? Eat 'em, dry 'em, put 'em in the tea.. I don't see the use of extraction.
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FeedYerHead
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Re: Best Shroom Extraction Method? [Re: Turtletotem]
#23724279 - 10/10/16 05:28 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Easier dosing, also a lot of people get nauseous from other ROA. Sometimes going threw the effort to proceed the extraction, will make dosing moar convenient in the long run.
-------------------- The Future Will Arrive On Time - Feed ..-"""-.. /** * * **\ :_.-:`:-._; (_) .\|/(_)\|/dwb
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filthyknees
no coincidence


Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 6,283
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Re: Best Shroom Extraction Method? [Re: FeedYerHead]
#23726203 - 10/10/16 06:56 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I've put some to everclear 24hrs in a sealed jar, shaken every so often, then evaped in pyrex in front of a flow hood.
We went for a goo consistency, so total evaporation. After scraping the remains and some fractions to guess a rough test dose we calculated a dose some ridiculous small fraction of a gram.
The process was very easy. The most annoying part was handling the result which is oily sort of like reclaim from weed concentrates. But could be used in capsule or a number of other ways.
Mine is stored in wax paper in a Tupperware in the fridge.
-------------------- But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow That it's one thing to try and another to fly You get there quicker just a step at a time It's one thing to bark, another to bite The show ain't over till you pack up at night
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krypto2000
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Re: Best Shroom Extraction Method? [Re: filthyknees]
#23726485 - 10/10/16 08:19 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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You can do an ethanol/alcohol extraction and get a very mushroomy flavoured liquid, if you dry it completely you will have a very hygroscopic crystaline mass about 1/4 the weight of your original product. This will oxidize quickly and take on moisture if left exposed to air. If stored in alcohol with some ascorbic acid and/or converted to a salt and kept in the freezer it will last indefinitely. If will probably last as long as you want it at room temperature as well, but it will grow mold and bacteria without enough alcohol in it.
If you want to further refine it you can do an a/b extraction like mescaline or dmt. That will result in a relatively pure product (>50%). To get >95% pure you would then have to recrystallize or chromatograph it, both of which could be done at home, but the former is likely more accessible if you don't know what I'm talking about.
Quote:
filthyknees said: I've put some to everclear 24hrs in a sealed jar, shaken every so often, then evaped in pyrex in front of a flow hood.
We went for a goo consistency, so total evaporation. After scraping the remains and some fractions to guess a rough test dose we calculated a dose some ridiculous small fraction of a gram.
The process was very easy. The most annoying part was handling the result which is oily sort of like reclaim from weed concentrates. But could be used in capsule or a number of other ways.
Mine is stored in wax paper in a Tupperware in the fridge.
If you stick it in the oven you should be able to dry it out completely which will be a sticky crystalline mass, mostly sugars I believe. At low heat it should be stable enough. I would not store it this way though as even in gel caps it will lose potency significantly over a period of weeks.
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filthyknees
no coincidence


Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 6,283
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Re: Best Shroom Extraction Method? [Re: krypto2000]
#23727342 - 10/11/16 02:51 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ty krypto, any details for duration? Guessing 170*F for two - four hours??
-------------------- But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow That it's one thing to try and another to fly You get there quicker just a step at a time It's one thing to bark, another to bite The show ain't over till you pack up at night
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krypto2000
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Re: Best Shroom Extraction Method? [Re: filthyknees]
#23727641 - 10/11/16 08:35 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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You mean to dry the extract? I'm not sure as I haven't done it myself. I've dried it in a vacuum chamber and it took only a few minutes probably, from the point in which it were a sticky goop. I would think less than an hour, but be sure to check on it frequently as it will decompose. I would also suggest, while you still have it in solution, to add an acid and convert it to a salt so that it will be more stable (citric acid, ascorbic, tartrate, etc).
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filthyknees
no coincidence


Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 6,283
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Re: Best Shroom Extraction Method? [Re: krypto2000]
#23727746 - 10/11/16 09:14 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Will that (citric acid, ect) make the goo more taffy like? And in what quantity?
-------------------- But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow That it's one thing to try and another to fly You get there quicker just a step at a time It's one thing to bark, another to bite The show ain't over till you pack up at night
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krypto2000
Unknown


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Re: Best Shroom Extraction Method? [Re: filthyknees]
#23727871 - 10/11/16 10:13 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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The amount would depend upon the salt and alkaloid content. Citric acid for instance is about 67% of the mass as psilocybin, the heavier of the two alkaloids. You want to add them at an equimolar ratio so for every 100mg of psilocybin you would add 67mg of citric acid. Cubensis ideally will contain maybe 1.2% alkaloids so figure 10mg of actives per gram so 6.7mg of citric acid per gram of mushroom. You can look up w/e acid you are using and work out the amount required based on its molecular weight but it's also fine to overshoot it too as it's not going to hurt anything. The acid will likely not change the consistency of the goo much unless you were to add a lot, but yes, I'd imagine whatever impact it had would be to harden it up. Some acids such as tartaric acid will bind to two molecules of psilocybin for every molecule of tartaric acid so you would use 1 mole of tartaric for every 2 moles of psilocybin. As I said though if you don't want to figure all that out just throw in >10mg of w/e acid for every g of cubensis and not worry about it.
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barada42
Stranger
Registered: 09/16/13
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Re: Best Shroom Extraction Method? [Re: krypto2000]
#23733376 - 10/13/16 08:08 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hi. I am about 1 week away from doing this and will report my findings and results.
My significant other and I can't tolerate full mushrooms very well. She vomits multiple times and I end up spending the whole time clutching my abdomen and complaining about how great things would be if it wasn't for the bad stomach cramps. Extraction seems like a great way to get the benefits with none of the negative physical side effects. Honestly, even if 50% potency is lost, I would be ok with that and just take twice the amount of extract.
I'm going the ethanol route. Everclear (95% ethanol) isn't available here, so I'm distilling potato vodka until I can get as close to 95% as possible. I'll be heating and stirring the alcohol/mushroom slurry using a heated magnetic stirrer (like the one in the attached pic), heating and stirring for a couple of hours several times over a 24 hour period. I will use consistent temperature and time to keep variables down. PF's own extraction tek suggests boiling for several hours, so I'm not scared of using heat. He also warns to use a double boiler and stir often to avoid sticking. I'm hoping the magnetic stirrer will suffice.
I'll be double filtering through dust masks (as per PF's extraction tek) while the slurry is hot, rather than coffee filters (or cotton, as one person on this forum has used) to avoid getting the floating scum issue. I will perform three (possibly four – why not?) total extractions on the mushroom matter before setting it aside to dry again (just in case the extraction fails for some reason – I don't want to waste it).
I will be reducing the extract via evaporation in a beaker on the heated magnetic stirrer in order to try to keep precipitate from forming (this time without heat), at least until measured out evenly into dose-appropriate dropper bottles, which will go into the freezer.
I'm really looking forward to this experiment. I'll post my experience. I consume mushrooms very infrequently (once every two years or so to help combat social anxiety), so it will be hard for me to determine with much precision just how well the extraction has worked, but I will certainly do my best.
Any comments/corrections on the above are most welcome.
-------------------- -- Everything above this line is fiction
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krypto2000
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Re: Best Shroom Extraction Method? [Re: barada42]
#23733454 - 10/13/16 08:45 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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24 hours is overkill, I'd do an hour or less. In 1 hour you should get the majority of the actives and with 3+ extractions you'll only leave a negligable amount behind.
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barada42
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Re: Best Shroom Extraction Method? [Re: krypto2000]
#23736185 - 10/14/16 06:45 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
krypto2000 said: 24 hours is overkill, I'd do an hour or less. In 1 hour you should get the majority of the actives and with 3+ extractions you'll only leave a negligable amount behind.
Thanks. Do you have any source I can look at for this? PF's tek says "several hours", Willy Myco says 24 hours for first wash, and other teks indicate a soak of up to three days.
I guess I could set some aside and do a bioassay with the shorter extraction. It would be great to know just how long it takes for sure.
-------------------- -- Everything above this line is fiction
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filthyknees
no coincidence


Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 6,283
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Re: Best Shroom Extraction Method? [Re: barada42]
#23736211 - 10/14/16 07:09 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I know one guy who moonshines, I was going to use his stuff instead of everclear to extract for cost reasons.
But as I found out only about a pint (out of a large volume) is above 95% soooo it's unusable for my purposes.
Wanted to mention that in case most of the alc you brew is unusable, unless it's all above 95%
-------------------- But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow That it's one thing to try and another to fly You get there quicker just a step at a time It's one thing to bark, another to bite The show ain't over till you pack up at night
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krypto2000
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Re: Best Shroom Extraction Method? [Re: barada42]
#23736580 - 10/14/16 09:54 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
barada42 said:
Quote:
krypto2000 said: 24 hours is overkill, I'd do an hour or less. In 1 hour you should get the majority of the actives and with 3+ extractions you'll only leave a negligable amount behind.
Thanks. Do you have any source I can look at for this? PF's tek says "several hours", Willy Myco says 24 hours for first wash, and other teks indicate a soak of up to three days.
I guess I could set some aside and do a bioassay with the shorter extraction. It would be great to know just how long it takes for sure.
Not really. There's a reference on erowid where they do an a/b extraction into some acidic water which takes about an hour and they get a good yield, also basing it on personal experience from doing extractions and making tea. Psilocybin is *very* water soluble so it will come out pretty quickly. Have you ever made tea? If so you'd know how efficient it is.
Below is the best source I can find for the solubility of the two compounds. I would use 60-70% ethanol maybe, 95% would not be very efficient. Really water is great alone but it's harder to reduce is the only thing. If you're using high proof alcohol more time may be required as you suggest but it's because it's a poor solvent choice if there's no water.
https://wiki.dmt-nexus.me/Psychedelic_Compounds_Chemical_and_Physical_Properties#Psilocybin
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herrenvolk


Registered: 05/14/16
Posts: 222
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Re: Best Shroom Extraction Method? [Re: krypto2000]
#23739044 - 10/15/16 01:43 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Whats the difference between using ethanol vs. water for this extraction? Will 151proof (75% ABV) do fine?
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