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WeAreMushroom
Ask Me About Bigfoot



Registered: 11/10/14
Posts: 1,405
Loc: Frying Like An Eagle
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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Legality of Purchasing Peyote?
#23723797 - 10/09/16 09:53 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hey guys, was considering expanding my cactus collection and was wondering if it's legal to buy rooted, potted, peyote cactus from vendors inside the U.S. Is this a grey area as with cannabis seeds and spore syringes, or could this get me in trouble? Are there non-mescaline containing varieties of Lophophora (sp?) that are legal? 
I'd really love to purchase a bridgesii cactus, but don't really know how to start looking.
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tdubz



Registered: 02/26/12
Posts: 5,586
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For decoration it's a grey area sort of like poppy pods...soon as you extract anything then it becomes illegal I believe.
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trichlover
Wandering and Wondering



Registered: 09/19/16
Posts: 178
Last seen: 2 years, 23 days
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Re: Legality of Purchasing Peyote? [Re: tdubz]
#23723846 - 10/09/16 10:15 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Can't really name vendors but people will auction them often as Ariocarpus sp. or Ariocarpus williamsii.
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NDStepp84
Stellar nuclear waste


Registered: 04/23/15
Posts: 4,956
Last seen: 1 month, 4 days
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I'm pretty sure there is no grey area in the US with peyote plants or seeds, both are illegal to possess, unless you are a member of the Native American church.
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"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. -Robert A. Heinlein
Links and teks ND's grow log and discussion Plant thread
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P.Zappatecorum
Lophophilus



Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 2,094
Loc: Cactaceae
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Re: Legality of Purchasing Peyote? [Re: NDStepp84]
#23723992 - 10/09/16 11:30 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Peyote is definitely illegal to own or sell in the US. Seeds, live plants, dried plants, the possession of lophophora williamsii in illegal. That said, I have seen genuine lophophora williamsii for sale by regular legitimate nurseries in the US. It's not common, but it's one of those things that most people wouldn't recognize if you were pelting them in the head with it. People order them online all the time and unless you're getting tons of plants the worst that might happen is they get confiscated by customs. The easiest and safest route is buying seeds and growing them from seed yourself, although that is very frustratingly slow. If you're interested in the mescaline, buy some totally legal trichocereus bridgesii cuttings. Peyote grows slow as hell and takes years to build up enough mescaline to trip on. It can easily take $300 worth of plants to have one trip! Much better to just collect them for looks and use trichocereus for your tripping needs. Very few of the mescaline fans on this site have actually tried peyote, even among the ones who grow it.
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ferrel_human
stone eater



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 16,320
Loc: Texas
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Quote:
WeAreMushroom said: Hey guys, was considering expanding my cactus collection and was wondering if it's legal to buy rooted, potted, peyote cactus from vendors inside the U.S. Is this a grey area as with cannabis seeds and spore syringes, or could this get me in trouble? Are there non-mescaline containing varieties of Lophophora (sp?) that are legal? 
I'd really love to purchase a bridgesii cactus, but don't really know how to start looking. 
Quote:
P.Zappatecorum said: Peyote is definitely illegal to own or sell in the US. Seeds, live plants, dried plants, the possession of lophophora williamsii in illegal. That said, I have seen genuine lophophora williamsii for sale by regular legitimate nurseries in the US. It's not common, but it's one of those things that most people wouldn't recognize if you were pelting them in the head with it. People order them online all the time and unless you're getting tons of plants the worst that might happen is they get confiscated by customs. The easiest and safest route is buying seeds and growing them from seed yourself, although that is very frustratingly slow. If you're interested in the mescaline, buy some totally legal trichocereus bridgesii cuttings. Peyote grows slow as hell and takes years to build up enough mescaline to trip on. It can easily take $300 worth of plants to have one trip! Much better to just collect them for looks and use trichocereus for your tripping needs. Very few of the mescaline fans on this site have actually tried peyote, even among the ones who grow it. 
You would be in real trouble if the law comes down on you. No grey area there unless say you try and argue Lophorora diffusa but or ariocarpus sp little will and so on and so forth. People will try and get away with the dumbest shit.
So that being said, tread lightly and grow seed. Very rewarding endevour. Just use good judgement.
-------------------- Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely. -Karode
 Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade
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P.Zappatecorum
Lophophilus



Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 2,094
Loc: Cactaceae
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Re: Legality of Purchasing Peyote? [Re: ferrel_human]
#23724096 - 10/10/16 12:53 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
ferrel_human said: You would be in real trouble if the law comes down on you. No grey area there unless say you try and argue Lophorora diffusa but or ariocarpus sp little will and so on and so forth. People will try and get away with the dumbest shit.
So that being said, tread lightly and grow seed. Very rewarding endevour. Just use good judgement.
If you get to the point where you're arguing about what your plants are to cops, you're fucked. All they have to do is test the plants for mescaline, and they don't use a very accurate test, even diffusa would probably give a false positive due to all the alkaloids it has. 
So yeah, use caution, don't flaunt it around and don't tell people what they are. It is best to have a very large collection of other plants, they blend in perfectly alongside turbinicarpus, for instance. Peyote arrests are extremely rare, and the only ones I've ever heard of making the news are when somebody gets raided on some other charges and the yotes just get added on to the pile of indictments.
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Spanishfly
$$$Rich€€€Bich£££



Registered: 03/19/12
Posts: 1,851
Loc: Spain
Last seen: 6 years, 26 days
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It´s illegal in the US to possess L. williamsii - although I have sent plenty of plants to people there. Easiest is to grow a load from seed - I have sent masses of seed there as well - keep it quiet and don´t invite the cops into your house.
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saythatagain



Registered: 04/11/15
Posts: 980
Loc: Spaceship Earth
Last seen: 10 months, 3 days
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Re: Legality of Purchasing Peyote? [Re: Spanishfly]
#23724309 - 10/10/16 06:05 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I might add diffusa is 100% legal. I've bought williamsii on Ebay before without any trouble. I've never heard of somebody getting busted for buying one and I'm sure the odds of some dummy recognizing it are very small. Just search "ariocarpus" and you'll find plenty. I would reccommend buying from inside the US so you don't havve to worry as much about customs.
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Mostly_Harmless
wyrd bið ful aræd



Registered: 05/12/09
Posts: 5,043
Loc: Perfidious Albion
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Re: Legality of Purchasing Peyote? [Re: saythatagain]
#23724322 - 10/10/16 06:24 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
saythatagain said: I might add diffusa is 100% legal.
California Health & Safety Code 11363 HS refers to the whole genus Lophophora, and some vendors won't ship even diffusa seeds to that state.
But as a counterpoint : People v. Woody (1964) 61 Cal.2d 716, 727.
Quote:
[9] In the instant case, of course, we encounter no problem as to the bona fide nature of defendants' assertion of the free exercise clause. The state agrees, and the evidence amply demonstrates, that defendants' use of peyote was for a religious purpose. [FN9]
FN9. We note the our determination that defendants are entitled to religious exemption raises no issue under the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment. (Sherbert v. Verner, supra, 374 U.S. at p. 409, 83 S.Ct. 1790, 10 L.Ed.2d 965.)
[10] We have weighed the competing values represented in this case on the symbolic scale of constitutionality. On the one side we have placed the weight of freedom of religion as protected by the First Amendment; on the other, the weight of the state's 'compelling interest.' Since the use of peyote incorporates the essence of the religious expression, the first weight is heavy. Yet the use of peyote presents only slight danger to the state and to the enforcement of its laws; the second weight is relatively light. The scale tips in favor of the constitutional protection.
We know that some will urge that it is more important to subserve the rigorous enforcement of the narcotic laws than to carve out of them an exception for a few believers in a strange faith. They will say that the exception may produce problems of enforcement and that the dictate of the state must overcome the beliefs of a minority of Indians. But the problems of enforce. here do not inherently differ from those of other situations which call for the detection of fraud. On the other hand, the right to free religious expression embodies a precious heritage of our history. In a mass society, which presses at every point toward conformity, the protection of a self‑expression, however unique, of the individual and the group becomes ever more important. The varying currents of the subcultures that flow into the mainstream of our national life give it depth and beauty. We ***78 **822 preserve a greater value than an ancient tradition when we protect the rights of the Indians who honestly practiced an old religion *728 in using peyote one night at a meeting in a desert hogan near Needles, California.
The judgment is reversed.
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P.Zappatecorum
Lophophilus



Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 2,094
Loc: Cactaceae
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Peyote law is a clusterfuck. In the end, if you've gotten to the point where you're arguing with police and hiring lawyers, even exoneration is going to be costly and damaging.
If you're a documented member of a Peyotist religion you might have some flimsy legal protections and be able to argue your case, but it would be costly and you may end up losing. The only strongly protected use/possession is in actual Native American NAC members.
The diffusae are technically legal in most states but you will not see many vendors stateside selling whole plants, mostly just seed. It opens them up to risk of authorities looking into whether or not they are truly diffusa or actually mislabeled williamsii. Again, it might be legal but if they raid you suspecting you have peyote because you're openly flaunting that you sell lophophora and you do happen to also have williamsii, you would be fucked. Also, cops are not fucking scientists and they have been known to mistakenly arrest people for methamphetamine on their car floor that turn out to be glazed donut crumbs, so expecting them to accept your argument, that "no, no, this is lophophora diffusa, see the rib shape, it is a different species" will not prevent you from getting arrested even if you were able to prove it later in court and get out of jail.
Sure, you can buy diffusa online without much worry, but then again it's pretty damn safe to order williamsii online as well, even if it's illegal. I would urge the same caution in displaying, selling or letting people know you own diffusa that I would with williamsii though, because U.S. Law Enforcement are fucking retards that love nothing better than to fuck with people. Don't open yourself up to unnecessary risk if you're going to engage in illegal or grey areas activities.
I've seen nursery owners selling LW at farmers markets in my area and I think they're fucking retarded for that. Why would you take such a huge risk to sell a $10 plant? Obviously, they get away with it so hey, I suppose the risk is pretty low. I'm more circumspect of a person.
Edited by P.Zappatecorum (10/10/16 11:07 AM)
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saythatagain



Registered: 04/11/15
Posts: 980
Loc: Spaceship Earth
Last seen: 10 months, 3 days
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I laughed my ass off at that news story. Of course it's Florida.
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