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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Misuse of science [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2357307 - 02/20/04 02:00 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

The statement addresses the current administration.

That in no way invalidates it.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Registered: 02/26/01
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Re: Misuse of science [Re: EchoVortex]
    #2357309 - 02/20/04 02:00 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

luvdemlies will accept no criticism of George Bush regardless of facts or proof. It is impossible for his mind to accept such a thing.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Misuse of science [Re: Xlea321]
    #2358077 - 02/20/04 06:01 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Is lying the only thing that gets your dick hard PinocchiAl?

It's a shame you aren't enough of a man to try and make a point honestly.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Misuse of science [Re: EchoVortex]
    #2358104 - 02/20/04 06:24 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

So because I feel context is important means I claimed that I know better than the scientists?  :lol: No wonder it's so easy for pinky and others to make you appear silly.

Quote:

PROOF. FACTS. Either of those words mean anything to you?



Yup. Far more than many here it appears.

You don't like context? Fine. I happen to think it's rather important.

A study on murder showing 20 deaths in December means what exactly without showing the number of deaths in November and January?

The number of deaths may be accurate enough, just as the report may be accurate, but contextually, means little.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineEchoVortex
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Re: Misuse of science [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2358166 - 02/20/04 07:38 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

A fact-free reply, just as I predicted.

So because I feel context is important means I claimed that I know better than the scientists?

So now you've gone from saying that the study is "crap" to the far more neutral and ambiguous-sounding "context is important."  If you call their study "crap" that would suggest you know something they don't. 

Of course context is important.  The study PROVIDES context: namely that the Bush administration TAMPERS with scientist's activities in ways previous administrations have not.  Are you able to read?  Muhurgle provided the following quotation TWICE for your benefit and yet you continue to insist there is no context:

""There is significant evidence that the scope and scale of the manipulation, supression, and misrepresentation of science by the Bush administration is unprecedented."

Do you know what what the word "unprecedented" means luv?  I'll give you a hint: the prefix "un" is another way of saying "not."  A "precedent" is a previous example or incidence.  If something is "unprecedented" then nothing of its sort has happened before.

But let us assume for a second, just for the sake of argument, that no context was provided.  What difference would it make?  Tell me luv, what difference would it make?

The only way it COULD possibly make a difference is if we are to assume that doing something wrong is okay as long other people have done it in the past.  That would be like a defense lawyer arguing that his client, who was just convicted of murder, should be let loose since other people have committed murder too. :wtf:

Every time there's a new revelation of Bush's incompetence or wrongdoing, you always come back with the same, lameass reply: "Eh, he's no worse than anybody else."  Never do you back this up with facts: you can't.  It's a lie.  He IS worse.  But I suppose you've learned the lesson from Goebbels, just as Bush and his thugs have, that if you repeat a lie often enough and confidently enough, some people will believe you.

OK, I'm waiting for your next fact-free reply.  Let's see how many of those you can produce in a row.  Go Luv, Go!  I know you can do it!


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Misuse of science [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2358189 - 02/20/04 07:56 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

The same goes for the report featured in this thread. Without context it is crap.




The context is the Bush administration. duh! Obviously a report could be made in wider context to look at other administrations but because this report chooses to focus itself solely on the bush administation in no way invalidates it.

And to think you had the cheek to accuse me of accepting/refuting information based solely on whether or not it agrees with my world view...


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Misuse of science [Re: EchoVortex]
    #2358830 - 02/20/04 12:04 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

It's the same old story. Everyone has "reading comprehension" problems but luv


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Misuse of science [Re: GazzBut]
    #2360183 - 02/20/04 05:49 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

So, now you choose to be disingenuous as well?

I merely agreed with the one who used the world view line.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Misuse of science [Re: EchoVortex]
    #2360195 - 02/20/04 05:52 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

So now you've gone from saying that the study is "crap" to the far more neutral and ambiguous-sounding "context is important."



Nope, I still feel without context that report is crap.

Just like your response.

(happy now?)


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Misuse of science [Re: Xlea321]
    #2360202 - 02/20/04 05:53 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Alex123 said:
It's the same old story. Everyone has "reading comprehension" problems but luv



No, not everyone.

But none can as accurately be called a liar as you.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineEchoVortex
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Registered: 02/06/02
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Re: Misuse of science [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2361489 - 02/21/04 12:15 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Yes! I knew you could come back with a fact-free reply, but you've exceeded even MY expectations and come back with one that is TOTALLY free of any meaningful content whatsoever!!

Man, it's just like the fucking Special Olympics around here. Heartwarming stuff, really.

I hereby award you the Gold Medal in the 100 Yard Denial.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Misuse of science [Re: EchoVortex]
    #2362739 - 02/21/04 07:13 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Here's another.

You do realize these are especially for you don't you?

:kiss:


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 10 months, 24 days
Re: Misuse of science [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2370632 - 02/23/04 04:27 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:



So, now you choose to be disingenuous as well?






How the hell am I being disingeuous? You say the report is crap without context I have pointed out that is does have context.


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Misuse of science [Re: GazzBut]
    #2370743 - 02/23/04 05:45 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

GazzBut said:
Quote:



So, now you choose to be disingenuous as well?






How the hell am I being disingeuous? You say the report is crap without context I have pointed out that is does have context.




Well, you claim I said... "And to think you had the cheek to accuse me of accepting/refuting information based solely on whether or not it agrees with my world view... "
I didn't. I merely agreed with the one who did.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleEdame
gone

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1,270
Loc: outta here
Re: Misuse of science [Re: muhurgle]
    #2372354 - 02/23/04 04:15 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

How about this one folks? You'd think they would want to avoid this kind of thing at the moment, but apparently not.
Four legs good, two legs better! Everything is A-OK America.


Quote:

Taking Spin Out of Report That Made Bad Into Good Health
By ROBERT PEAR

WASHINGTON, Feb. 21 ? The Bush administration says it improperly altered a report documenting large racial and ethnic disparities in health care, but it will soon publish the full, unexpurgated document.

"There was a mistake made," Tommy G. Thompson, the secretary of health and human services, told Congress last week. "It's going to be rectified."

Mr. Thompson said that "some individuals took it upon themselves" to make the report sound more positive than was justified by the data.

The reversal comes in response to concerns of Democrats and the Senate majority leader, Bill Frist, Republican of Tennessee. They are pushing separate bills to improve care for members of minorities.

"African-Americans and Native Americans die younger than any other racial or ethnic group," Dr. Frist said. "African-Americans, Native Americans and Hispanic Americans are at least twice as likely to suffer from diabetes and experience serious complications. These gaps are unacceptable."

President Bush's budget would cut spending for the training of health professionals and would eliminate a $34 million program that recruits blacks and Hispanics for careers as doctors, nurses and pharmacists.

On Wednesday, more than 60 influential scientists, including 20 Nobel laureates, issued a statement criticizing what they described as the misuse of science by the administration to bolster its policies on the environment, arms control and public health.

Representative Henry A. Waxman, Democrat of California, said the changes in the report on health disparities were "another example of the administration's manipulation of science to fit its political goals."

But William A. Pierce, a spokesman for the Department of Health and Human Services, said the changes had occurred as part of a "routine review process" and were not intended to minimize the problem.

The report, the first of its kind, was prepared under a 1999 law that requires officials to issue such reports every year.

The theme of the original report was that members of minorities "tend to be in poorer health than other Americans" and that "disparities are pervasive in our health care system," contributing to higher rates of disease and disability.

By contrast, the final report has an upbeat tone, beginning, "The overall health of Americans has improved dramatically over the last century."

The report was prepared by the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality, led by Dr. Carolyn M. Clancy. Administration officials said that she and her researchers had fought hard, at some professional risk, to protect the integrity of the report, but eventually went along with the revisions.

"No data or statistics in the report were altered in any way whatsoever," Dr. Clancy said. But a close reading of the evolving report shows that some entries in statistical tables were deleted from the final version.

The final report acknowledges that "some socioeconomic, racial, ethnic and geographic differences exist." It says, "There is no implication that these differences result in adverse health outcomes or imply moral error or prejudice in any way."

But Dr. Alan R. Nelson, a former president of the American Medical Association, said a large body of evidence suggested that "unconscious biases and stereotypes among physicians and nurses may play a role in causing racial and ethnic disparities." Dr. Nelson led a study of the issue by a committee of the National Academy of Sciences.

Prof. M. Gregg Bloche of Georgetown University, a member of the committee, said: "The administration's report does not fabricate data, but misrepresents the findings. It submerges evidence of profound disparities in an optimistic message about the overall excellence of the health care system."

Dr. Sally L. Satel, a psychiatrist and scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, said that agreeing to issue the original report, "Secretary Thompson succumbed to political pressure that was applied by members of Congress who are identified with ethnic causes." Critics, she said, have grossly exaggerated the significance of changes in the report.

Among those who wanted to rewrite the report was Arthur J. Lawrence, a deputy assistant secretary of health and human services.

"The present draft remains highly focused on the health care system's supposed failings and flaws," Mr. Lawrence said in a memorandum to Mr. Thompson last fall. "In short, the report lacks balance."

Mr. Lawrence said that geography, income and other factors could be more important than race. For example, he said, whites in rural northern Maine may have worse heart problems than blacks in big cities. In addition, he said, the report should place more emphasis on "personal responsibility for one's own health status" and on "problems with the medical malpractice system."

The original version of the report included these statements, which were dropped from the final version:

"We aspire to equality of opportunities for all our citizens. Persistent disparities in health care are inconsistent with our core values."

"Disparities come at a personal and societal price."

"Compared with whites, blacks experience longer waits in emergency departments and are more likely to leave without being seen."

When hospitalized for heart attacks, "Hispanics are less likely to receive optimal care."


The original report included a stark, prominent statement that "black children have much higher hospitalization rates for asthma than white children." The final version included the data, without comment.




--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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