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Cow_botherer
Bovine nuisance
Registered: 10/03/16
Posts: 59
Last seen: 7 years, 27 days
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Soil Properties for Liberty Cap Hunting 1
#23721169 - 10/09/16 02:53 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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So I'm sure a lot of us have seen this website:
http://www.landis.org.uk/soilscapes/
If not, this is an interesting application from Cranfield that shows soil conditions across England and Wales overlayed onto a map*, and searchable by area and postcode. Lately I've been using this to identify possible hunting locations, cross referenced with Ordinance Survey for public footpaths, and google maps to find places to leave the car.
*Edit 20161010 For Scotland: http://map.environment.gov.scot/Soil_maps/?layer=1 Thanks Littlespider
However, what soil properties seem to be the best? It's a given that Liberty Caps only grow in acidic soil - but what about drainage and other factors? So far I've been looking for places with the same sort of conditions as a well known (and therfore patrolled by the police) location for liberty caps. So that is:- Soilscape 6: freely draining slightly acid loamy soils Soilscape 8: slightly acid loamy and clayey soils with impeded drainage
The areas I've been searching within walking distance of my house have been mainly:- Soilscape 18: slowly permeable seasonally wet slightly acid but base-rich loamy and clayey soils So far no success here, but I'm planning excursions further afield in places more like the above...after a rain.
Posting specific locations is, of course, not a good idea. But looking up the conditions of sucessful hunting grounds and sharing them here could be an intersting tool to help home in on what to look for when searching out a new spot.
Edit: Submitted data so far England and Wales Soilscape 8 - Slightly acid loamy and clayey soils with impeded drainage Soilscape 13 - Freely draining acid loamy soils over rock Soilscape 14 - Freely draining very acid sandy and loamy soils. Good finds Soilscape 16 - Very acid loamy upland soils with a wet peaty surface. Drainage: surface wetness. Good finds Soilscape 19 - Slowly permeable wet very acid upland soils with a peaty surface Soilscape 25 - Blanket peat bog soil. Drainage: naturally wet. Good finds
Scotland Peaty podzols - well drained acid soils (n.b I'd be interested to see how Liberty Caps grow in areas identified as peaty gleyed podzols, being similarly acidic but naturally wet, with poor drainage). Good finds Humus-iron podzols - Well drained acid soils. Good finds Mineral alluvial soils - Soils developed in recent river deposits with either an organic-rich (humose) or mineral topsoil. Not-so good finds Peaty alluvial soils - Soil developed in recent river deposits with a peaty surface layer. Not-so good finds
Edit 20161011 Thanks to juliaset for finding this! Much more data available and covers the entirety of Great Britain.
http://www.ukso.org/maps.html
Edit 20141012
So far it seems that soils on the more acidic side of the scale (i.e. from Cranfield's soilscapes "acidic" and up) seem to yield the best results. Slightly acidic areas also yield mushrooms, it is unclear yet if they yield fewer mushrooms than the more acidic areas, it could be that the more acidic places are also those with more naturally damp ground. It seems very clear that areas with poor water drainage and high water tables make a difference when the weather has been too dry to keep the more freely draining soils damp - This would explain why peaty, boggy, moorland seem to be doing so well at the moment.
Edited by Cow_botherer (10/22/16 11:59 AM)
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littlespider
spider


Registered: 05/21/14
Posts: 496
Loc: UK
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Re: Soil Properties for Liberty Cap Hunting [Re: Cow_botherer]
#23721171 - 10/09/16 03:04 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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This is so geeky. Love it!
-------------------- remember what the dormouse said
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Cow_botherer
Bovine nuisance
Registered: 10/03/16
Posts: 59
Last seen: 7 years, 27 days
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Re: Soil Properties for Liberty Cap Hunting [Re: littlespider]
#23721173 - 10/09/16 03:06 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Science! Of shrooms
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Blazeyy
Psychonaut



Registered: 08/25/14
Posts: 1,663
Loc: Land of the Phrygian Hats
Last seen: 6 days, 16 hours
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Re: Soil Properties for Liberty Cap Hunting [Re: Cow_botherer]
#23721180 - 10/09/16 03:18 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Here is my results:
Very acid loamy upland soils with a wet peaty surface.
Blanket bog peat soils.
-------------------- I give you the choice of 2 pills.
With each containing one of the following: Cyanide... Psilocin... Would you take the risk? Didn't think so. This is why Positive Identification prior to consumption is important.
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Cow_botherer
Bovine nuisance
Registered: 10/03/16
Posts: 59
Last seen: 7 years, 27 days
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Re: Soil Properties for Liberty Cap Hunting [Re: Blazeyy] 1
#23721189 - 10/09/16 03:32 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Perfect! Thank you
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Cow_botherer
Bovine nuisance
Registered: 10/03/16
Posts: 59
Last seen: 7 years, 27 days
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Re: Soil Properties for Liberty Cap Hunting [Re: Cow_botherer] 1
#23724138 - 10/10/16 01:56 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Shameless self bump, this is proving interesting so far - explains why certain areas are proving to be very productive.
Anyone else want to contribute?
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littlespider
spider


Registered: 05/21/14
Posts: 496
Loc: UK
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Re: Soil Properties for Liberty Cap Hunting [Re: Cow_botherer] 2
#23724222 - 10/10/16 03:49 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I want in on this. My best spot is a "Peaty podzol"
http://map.environment.gov.scot/Soil_maps/?layer=1#
-------------------- remember what the dormouse said
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Cow_botherer
Bovine nuisance
Registered: 10/03/16
Posts: 59
Last seen: 7 years, 27 days
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Re: Soil Properties for Liberty Cap Hunting [Re: littlespider]
#23724468 - 10/10/16 08:34 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ooh thanks spider that's useful.
Looking at the liberty cap hunting thread a lot of the more sucessful members are in areas where peaty ground is more common - interesting.
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juliaset
learning to fly


Registered: 09/19/16
Posts: 14
Loc: Scotland
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Re: Soil Properties for Liberty Cap Hunting [Re: Cow_botherer] 1
#23727421 - 10/11/16 05:17 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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i've had good finds in lawn grass on: Humus-iron podzols. but only a few on: Mineral alluvial soils with peaty alluvial soils, which is a flood plain
yet to check on Peaty podzols but will do next week after some rain and report back.
Edit: found this other soil map viewer which has some really cool features, such as terrain aspect (like south or north facing slopes) http://www.ukso.org/maps.html which takes you to the map viewer here and select which layers to add. http://mapapps2.bgs.ac.uk/ukso/home.html?
Edited by juliaset (10/11/16 06:54 AM)
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Cow_botherer
Bovine nuisance
Registered: 10/03/16
Posts: 59
Last seen: 7 years, 27 days
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Re: Soil Properties for Liberty Cap Hunting [Re: juliaset]
#23727523 - 10/11/16 07:08 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Wow that link is very interesting, will have to dive into it later. Thanks
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Cow_botherer
Bovine nuisance
Registered: 10/03/16
Posts: 59
Last seen: 7 years, 27 days
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Re: Soil Properties for Liberty Cap Hunting [Re: Cow_botherer] 1
#23728176 - 10/11/16 12:42 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Found my first ever liberty cap today! I found a likely looking field with the sort of soil properties I've been looking for. Chalk one up for soilscape 8!
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littlespider
spider


Registered: 05/21/14
Posts: 496
Loc: UK
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Re: Soil Properties for Liberty Cap Hunting [Re: Cow_botherer] 1
#23728420 - 10/11/16 02:19 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Took a pic just for you soil nerds. Mushy field
-------------------- remember what the dormouse said
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Blazeyy
Psychonaut


Registered: 08/25/14
Posts: 1,663
Loc: Land of the Phrygian Hats
Last seen: 6 days, 16 hours
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Re: Soil Properties for Liberty Cap Hunting [Re: littlespider]
#23728594 - 10/11/16 03:15 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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excellent! we can actually see how the earth has formed on this shot.
-------------------- I give you the choice of 2 pills.
With each containing one of the following: Cyanide... Psilocin... Would you take the risk? Didn't think so. This is why Positive Identification prior to consumption is important.
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Cow_botherer
Bovine nuisance
Registered: 10/03/16
Posts: 59
Last seen: 7 years, 27 days
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Re: Soil Properties for Liberty Cap Hunting [Re: Blazeyy]
#23728626 - 10/11/16 03:29 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Indeed, the layers are cool thanks for posting spider
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littlespider
spider


Registered: 05/21/14
Posts: 496
Loc: UK
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Re: Soil Properties for Liberty Cap Hunting [Re: Cow_botherer]
#23728742 - 10/11/16 04:18 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think they like the grasses that grow on boggy ground. Particularly the ones that are a bit purple. They do grow in places with the wide greens blades but just seems to go mad for the fine, tufty coloured grasses that go with reeds.
-------------------- remember what the dormouse said
Edited by littlespider (10/11/16 04:19 PM)
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Blazeyy
Psychonaut



Registered: 08/25/14
Posts: 1,663
Loc: Land of the Phrygian Hats
Last seen: 6 days, 16 hours
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Re: Soil Properties for Liberty Cap Hunting [Re: littlespider]
#23730797 - 10/12/16 10:37 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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hundred percent agree with this statement, all my best spots are by reeds and lush green short grass with tufts of longer grass dotted around
-------------------- I give you the choice of 2 pills.
With each containing one of the following: Cyanide... Psilocin... Would you take the risk? Didn't think so. This is why Positive Identification prior to consumption is important.
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The Other Guy
I stare at fields



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 210
Loc: Devon, UK
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: Soil Properties for Liberty Cap Hunting [Re: Blazeyy]
#23731652 - 10/12/16 03:41 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Nice post, thanks for the link.
From what I can see, I've been picking at a variety of soilscapes. Mainly 6, but also 13 & 19.
I guess a lot depends on the temps and amount of water in the land, as libs are classed as 'frequent' in terms of availability in the season. Although a lot of us hunters would probably consider them mysterious, especially as each year they seem to move to different parts of the fields I check, all part of the fun though.
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Cow_botherer
Bovine nuisance
Registered: 10/03/16
Posts: 59
Last seen: 7 years, 27 days
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Re: Soil Properties for Liberty Cap Hunting [Re: The Other Guy]
#23731818 - 10/12/16 04:47 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hey there  Thanks for the information building up a pretty decent picture now - how would you rate your findings at 13 and 19?
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The Other Guy
I stare at fields



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 210
Loc: Devon, UK
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: Soil Properties for Liberty Cap Hunting [Re: Cow_botherer]
#23734139 - 10/13/16 01:36 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cow_botherer said:how would you rate your findings at 13 and 19?
Well most of my finds have been on soilscape 6 as that's where I can get to easiest, but I never find huge numbers compared to some. I've found at 13 and 19 but probably had to cover more ground in order to find the same quantity.
Looking at that map has given me some good ideas of places to check out, soilscape 16 seems to be a good area to start with from your data, and I could also spend time in more soilscape 19 areas. If a lot depends on the PH then this could yield some good results.
Do you think it's worth checking soilscape 14 (Freely draining very acid sandy and loamy soils)? Good for acidity but maybe peaty soil with the higher organic content is better than sandy?
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catnip40
xฬ็



Registered: 03/09/12
Posts: 703
Last seen: 8 days, 23 hours
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Re: Soil Properties for Liberty Cap Hunting [Re: The Other Guy]
#23736137 - 10/14/16 05:54 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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cool thread, just want to jump in so i'm subbed
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littlespider
spider


Registered: 05/21/14
Posts: 496
Loc: UK
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Re: Soil Properties for Liberty Cap Hunting [Re: The Other Guy]
#23736925 - 10/14/16 11:56 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Other Guy said:
Quote:
Cow_botherer said:how would you rate your findings at 13 and 19?
Well most of my finds have been on soilscape 6 as that's where I can get to easiest, but I never find huge numbers compared to some. I've found at 13 and 19 but probably had to cover more ground in order to find the same quantity.
Looking at that map has given me some good ideas of places to check out, soilscape 16 seems to be a good area to start with from your data, and I could also spend time in more soilscape 19 areas. If a lot depends on the PH then this could yield some good results.
Do you think it's worth checking soilscape 14 (Freely draining very acid sandy and loamy soils)? Good for acidity but maybe peaty soil with the higher organic content is better than sandy?
My biggest libs came from pink sand soil
-------------------- remember what the dormouse said
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The Other Guy
I stare at fields



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 210
Loc: Devon, UK
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: Soil Properties for Liberty Cap Hunting [Re: littlespider]
#23737036 - 10/14/16 12:44 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
littlespider said: My biggest libs came from pink sand soil
Nice, is that at quite high elevation? What soilscape number is showing for that area on the map?
It seems they're not picky then as long as the acidity is there. Might be worth looking at local soilscape 14's.
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littlespider
spider


Registered: 05/21/14
Posts: 496
Loc: UK
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Re: Soil Properties for Liberty Cap Hunting [Re: The Other Guy]
#23738380 - 10/14/16 08:00 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Not really. About 200m. The map kust says its a brown soil. The rocks there are sedimentary rocks like sandstone. Where as at the orher side of the hill most of the rocks you see are metamorphic.
The sandy side is best for libs though when it hasnt rained they are small and dry.
-------------------- remember what the dormouse said
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juliaset
learning to fly


Registered: 09/19/16
Posts: 14
Loc: Scotland
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Re: Soil Properties for Liberty Cap Hunting [Re: littlespider]
#23745409 - 10/17/16 12:11 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Got a chance to check out some areas on peaty podzol this weekend. There had been quite a bit of rain a few days before hand which may have had the most effect.
The first site was a football pitch/park which had a good lot of libs.
The second was a golf course which after a quick check had lots of libs in the rough.
Both areas of peaty podzol were near the sea and with red sandstone underneath.
How much it is to do with the soil and how much it is to do with undisturbed well established mycelium i dont know
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Cow_botherer
Bovine nuisance
Registered: 10/03/16
Posts: 59
Last seen: 7 years, 27 days
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Re: Soil Properties for Liberty Cap Hunting [Re: juliaset]
#23760775 - 10/22/16 12:09 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Many thanks to the people that have helped out this little project 
With the data we have so far I can put together a few observations.
My initial hypothesis was that liberty caps want to grow on acidic soil in poorly-draining areas.
From the information here it seems that yes they very much do grow in acidic areas - from "slightly acidic" and up (using the terms used by the soilscapes website) it seems that the more acidic the better, and "acidic, but base-rich" soils don't tend to harbour mushrooms. In terms of soil drainage, it seems that it doesn't matter whether the ground is very soggy or freely draining - people have reported good finds in either case. However it seems that naturally very wet areas like peat bogs produce huge amounts of liberty caps and are less susceptible to warm and dry conditions like what we've had this season. It could also be hypothesised that areas with poor drainage could produce more mushrooms sooner than more well drained areas when there has been little rain.
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knarkkorven
Entheoholic


Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 1,707
Loc: Sweden
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Re: Soil Properties for Liberty Cap Hunting [Re: Cow_botherer]
#23760846 - 10/22/16 12:39 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think you should focus more on the humus layer than the soil. The mushroom mycelium is present in the layer of half decomposed dead grass.
That's why there are reports from places with all different types of soil - it simply doesn't matter that much in the equation.
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Blazeyy
Psychonaut



Registered: 08/25/14
Posts: 1,663
Loc: Land of the Phrygian Hats
Last seen: 6 days, 16 hours
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Re: Soil Properties for Liberty Cap Hunting [Re: knarkkorven]
#23760977 - 10/22/16 01:35 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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It really doesn't seem to matter much i agree, it is peak season now and yeah.. they are everywhere even on the parks, in forest clearing n shit, 25, 16 n 19 are my main ones though.
-------------------- I give you the choice of 2 pills.
With each containing one of the following: Cyanide... Psilocin... Would you take the risk? Didn't think so. This is why Positive Identification prior to consumption is important.
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sixbit
Stranger danger

Registered: 07/21/23
Posts: 5
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Re: Soil Properties for Liberty Cap Hunting [Re: Cow_botherer]
#28419005 - 08/03/23 04:23 PM (5 months, 24 days ago) |
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after everything I've read rich acid soil is a prerequisite has any thought about using aquarium soil in their substrate mix for Psilocybe semilanceata Cultivation
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