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OfflineDr_Sativa
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First grow [+pics]. Any help would be appreciated.
    #23718516 - 10/08/16 06:23 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Hi, Everybody
This forum is echoing a first attempt, this attempt will be made using CVG bulk substrate with rye masters.
Updates will come with more pics as it goes.
Any help, comments, ect.. would be greatly appreciated.
FrankHorrigan's guilds among many other sources have been used as references for most the grow.
Thanks for input!

As of now were the projects at.  --- early Oct 16'

- B+ strain

- Failed agar attempt
      tried making 10 agar samples
      placed in TiT incubator at 84F
      after 1 week only one had any growth, and it was pitiful.
      trashed :thumbdown:

- Made 2 master jars.
      they were inoculated via multi spore syringe
      success quickly colonized, TiT used
      used most of them up in colonizing the other jars via G2G (second gen jars shown)



- What was left was used for a trial run.
      but first a few grains were transferred to agar
      dunked the rest was put into a Monotub ~22L w/
      verm/coir +gypsum for substrate material
      substrate currently beginning colonization at room temp ~70-75F, covered


-----------------------------

- T+8h update
        Tub pics + colonization update

    this is just a small test bucket
    next when the jars are ready will be using one 58L and two 26L buckets


- T+24h colonization update


- T+44h update
    Lowered the TiT to the 70/75 range. ambient temp is too wild to leave outside of TiT.
    Are there any benefits to incubating at a higher temp(85)?

    Surface of the substrate is ~95% colonized.
    Is it looking heathy?

    Do these agar samples look good?
    Should they be further isolated and then be stored for a future project?


New
T+83h Update
    Substrate is almost there! Maybe one or two more days until its fully colonized.

    These are the agar wedges that are being considered for transfer.
    The selection will be reduced to three once the wedges are further examined.

Edited by Dr_Sativa (10/11/16 03:04 PM)

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Offlinetump
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Re: First grow [+pics]. Any help would be appreciated. [Re: Dr_Sativa]
    #23718524 - 10/08/16 06:29 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Doesnt look bad. To put into fruiting just increase fresh air and mist to evaporated the sub. Evaporation is a big pinning trigger.

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InvisibleLlwr
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Re: First grow [+pics]. Any help would be appreciated. [Re: Dr_Sativa]
    #23718526 - 10/08/16 06:30 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Is that a dub tub in the works or a tray?

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OfflineDr_Sativa
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Re: First grow [+pics]. Any help would be appreciated. [Re: Llwr]
    #23718531 - 10/08/16 06:37 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

was under the impression its called a monotub, looked up dub tub essentially the same thing but replacing the lid with another tub? any advantages?

thanks for the replies guys!

Also with lots of grain jars would it be better to have a large mono-dub-tub whatever, or multiple smaller ones?

maybe multiple smaller ones to minimize damages due to possible contaminants?

can the jars be left to incubate indefinitely?


--------------------

Edited by Dr_Sativa (10/08/16 06:44 AM)

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InvisibleLlwr
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Re: First grow [+pics]. Any help would be appreciated. [Re: Dr_Sativa]
    #23718551 - 10/08/16 07:00 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Well you don't completely fill a mono.  You only go up about 4 inches in an 18 gallon tub.  That pic looks like you completely filled a shallowish tub....

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OfflineMushierage
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Re: First grow [+pics]. Any help would be appreciated. [Re: Llwr]
    #23718897 - 10/08/16 09:59 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Couple things.

Your jars looks okay, but they look slightly wet.  The myc growth is heavy and slow it looks like, it might take awhile to colonize.  75F on a shelf somewhere.

I cant see the tub itself, but it appears to be colonizing just fine.  Let it go again at 75F or so and colonize the top some more, after which you can add a short casing and go straight to fruiting, or colonize 30% and then fruit.

Fruiting conditions is constant FAE, 70-75F, 12/12 lighting schedule. Thats it really.  Keep the sub hydrated if there ever is evaporation and keep the surface with microbeads of water at all times


--------------------
Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup.  OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.


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OfflineDr_Sativa
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Re: First grow [+pics]. Any help would be appreciated. [Re: Mushierage]
    #23719536 - 10/08/16 01:34 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Added some better reference photos of the tub

I think the rye was boiled too long, a lot of the berries split open

Also everything is being incubated at ~83F (excluding the tub) is this too hot? as you recommend 75


--------------------

Edited by Dr_Sativa (10/08/16 01:55 PM)

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OfflineDr_Sativa
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Re: First grow [+pics]. Any help would be appreciated. [Re: Dr_Sativa]
    #23721251 - 10/09/16 05:16 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Update
- T+24h substrate pics


--------------------

Edited by Dr_Sativa (10/11/16 03:07 PM)

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InvisibleLlwr
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Re: First grow [+pics]. Any help would be appreciated. [Re: Dr_Sativa]
    #23721291 - 10/09/16 06:09 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

83 to hot man.  whenever you incubate you encourage contams to grow.  70/75 range is fine.

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OfflineDr_Sativa
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Re: First grow [+pics]. Any help would be appreciated. [Re: Llwr]
    #23724091 - 10/10/16 12:50 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Update
- T+44h update
    Lowered the TiT to the 70/75 range. ambient temp is too wild to leave outside of TiT.
    Are there any benefits to incubating at a higher temp(85)?

    Surface of the substrate is ~95% colonized.
    Is it looking heathy?

    Do these agar samples look good?
    Should they be further isolated and then be stored for a future project?

Edited by Dr_Sativa (10/11/16 03:06 PM)

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Invisiblec10h12n2o
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Re: First grow [+pics]. Any help would be appreciated. [Re: Dr_Sativa]
    #23724147 - 10/10/16 02:07 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

First of all, welcome to the forum and congrats on having some initial succes, you are well on your way to some sweet harvests, especially following franks stuff, but be patient, a few things:

1. Did you case that tub? I don't think you did, I think you may be confusing the word with bulk substrate. Most people don't case monotubs except penis envy, since cubensis doesn't need it

2. Coir, verm, and gypsum is not a good casing material. You want to be using peat and verm plus lime for ph balance. CVG is great as a bulk substrate, not a casing though

3. While your tub is colonizing, you want GE but not FAE. I don't like opening the lid or up taping the holes until it is fully colonized, since co2 buildup helps colonization, and FAE is a pinning trigger. Wait til it is colonized to introduce FAE

4. Most people recommend against incubators. I love them, but gotta be used right. You don't want to be over 70-75, even though slightly higher colonized faster, the higher temperatures benefit contains WAY more than they benefit cubensis cultures, so it's a net loss. Incubator is great for preventing fluctuations though

5. Agar looks nice! Surprisingly nice :smile: as for what you should do with it, depends what you are trying to do. I would not advise trying to get an isolate from it, but rather, do a few transfers till you get a clean, organized culture, and then use that to make grain masters. Then clone a good fruit to agar, and then work with the clone culture and isolate it further if you wish. That is the best course of action


--------------------

C10's Agar Guide + Tips and Tricks | c10's Flow Hood Build Guide


"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."

"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
― Friedrich Nietzsche

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OfflineDr_Sativa
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Re: First grow [+pics]. Any help would be appreciated. [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #23724174 - 10/10/16 02:42 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks for welcoming me c10h12n2o

Your right I had mixed up the terms, there is no casing layer, and CVG was used as the substrate.

The photos are taken through a layer of plastic food wrap thats under the tubs lid, so hopefully the co2 levels where not compromised.

I will take your advice and try to get a clean organized culture via agar transfers.


--------------------

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Invisiblec10h12n2o
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Re: First grow [+pics]. Any help would be appreciated. [Re: Dr_Sativa]
    #23724708 - 10/10/16 10:17 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

smart man :highfive1:

oh cool, though some people advise against using plastic on top since it restricts GE

how many days total has it been since you mixed your spawn with the substrate?


--------------------

C10's Agar Guide + Tips and Tricks | c10's Flow Hood Build Guide


"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."

"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
― Friedrich Nietzsche

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OfflineDr_Sativa
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Re: First grow [+pics]. Any help would be appreciated. [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #23724828 - 10/10/16 11:03 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Its been ~4 days today.

Going to keep the food plastic wrap on, I enjoy looking at the mycelium too much to keep it closed all the time. I will keep the lack of GE in mind though.
 
Are there any books or threads you would recommend explaining how mycelium works?
Im very interested in growth patterns (fuzzy vs ropey) as well as what/how it eats and takes in nutrients, its favored climate conditions, ect...

Also it looks like it grows outwards in all directions from the central "node", but does it grow down into the soil in the same manner or just in the air because there is no resistance?

Does the mycelium think its underground because of the lack of FAE and the raised CO2 levels? and thats why its stuck in a vegetative state?
Would this also explain why its growing its tentacles outwards in all directions? Lots of questions.                     
  Haha TELL ME MORE    :awesurprise:    I NEED KNOW NOW


--------------------

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Invisiblec10h12n2o
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Re: First grow [+pics]. Any help would be appreciated. [Re: Dr_Sativa]
    #23725235 - 10/10/16 01:15 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

there is no node, that is just the origin of the culture, so it has had the most time to become established. it does grow in 3 dimensions, searching for new substrate or a good spot to fruit

a mycellium is a big filter breaking down the substrate

plastic might be handy for keeping an eye on your first project, but i would advise poking some holes in it and covering them with micropore tape. in the future you probably want to just leave the lid on though, until full colonization

wow thats only 4 days after spawning?? damn you got lucky!! :laugh: they usually average around 7-10 days for full colonization, sometimes up to a month. high spawn to substrate ratio makes it faster. monotubs are very set and forget, or you can baby them as much as you want.

Hang tight, let that thing colonize 100%, then introduce FAE (remove tape and your plastic, put in polyfill)

as far as learning about myc characteristics, some aspects are straightforward, and then a lot is poorly understood. fuzzy vs rhizo are two distinguishing features that a culture can express, and they can also be typical of a culture, strain, or race. for example: just like some families of people tend to have big muscles or blue eyes, some races and cultures of fungus tend to have certain characteristics (like rhizo or fuzzy), but just like a skinny person could work out and become muscular, or a recessive gene could lead to a non blue eyed family having blue eyed children, a particular culture could become rhizo or fuzzy under particular conditions even if it is not typical of its family. there is an elaborate dance between genetics (potential) and environment/conditions (reality), that leads to the characteristics you observe, which may or may not be typical of a culture/race/family under different circumstances

i recommend reading these:

how frank gets shit done

stro's strain isolation guide


--------------------

C10's Agar Guide + Tips and Tricks | c10's Flow Hood Build Guide


"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."

"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
― Friedrich Nietzsche

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OfflineDr_Sativa
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Re: First grow [+pics]. Any help would be appreciated. [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #23725473 - 10/10/16 02:55 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Great info! Answered a lot of questions.

Feeling lucky that its colonizing so fast. did use a pint and a half of spawn though. so thats.. math.. ~24% spawn to substrate ratio. I have no idea what the norm is off the top of my head, this was just what was left after G2G transfers.

The jars were also shaken.. a lot. at full colonization probably shook maybe once a day for 4 days in a row before the mix. Why were they being shaken so much I honestly dont recall.

Half of the second generation jars are being shaken, the others not so much will see how that turns out. learned not to fill the jars so full as well (its too hard to shake).

Great links, familiar with franks but not stro's I will look them both over.


--------------------

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OfflineDr_Sativa
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Re: First grow [+pics]. Any help would be appreciated. [Re: Dr_Sativa]
    #23728563 - 10/11/16 03:05 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

NewUpdate
T+83h Update
    Substrate is almost there! Maybe one or two more days until its fully colonized.

    These are the agar wedges that are being considered for transfer.
    The selection will be reduced to three once the wedges are further examined.


--------------------

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Invisiblec10h12n2o
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Re: First grow [+pics]. Any help would be appreciated. [Re: Dr_Sativa]
    #23729227 - 10/11/16 07:15 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

sweet!! looking good my friend!

hopefully this isnt happening (way too soon to say) but sometimes when i have done a shitty job mixing the substrate, there will be a patch or two (like yours) that wont colonize. sometimes the rest will be done in a few days, then a month later there is still a patch or 2 the size of a dime that didnt colonize. that is a big bummer, because it is very prone to contam once you introduce fruiting conditions (or sooner). when this has happened, i lightly case the whole thing (the only time i case cubes other than pe) and it has always turned out fine

your agar looks really good! very distinctive actually, kinda different than most. you are lucky to have a nicely rhizomorphic culture so early from MS, sometimes they are fuzzy or linear and slow. judging by the way that MS grain culture is performing on the agar, it isnt such a surprise that you would have fast colonization :smile:

so it really depends what you are trying to do. i would advise transferring a few times and getting a nicely organized culture and working with that (spawn run, fruit it) and clone some nice fruits and clusters (cluster pins are always vigorous because they are growing so fast; they do great on agar), then work with that clone culture (it will be great, im tellin you folks, its gonna be beautiful)

as far as your proposed cuts, they look good, but here are the ones i would personally take:


some bigger, some smaller. Good luck my friend, keep us posted!!


--------------------

C10's Agar Guide + Tips and Tricks | c10's Flow Hood Build Guide


"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."

"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
― Friedrich Nietzsche

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OfflineDr_Sativa
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Re: First grow [+pics]. Any help would be appreciated. [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #23729358 - 10/11/16 08:09 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Honestly I think it was mixed some what poorly.
Maybe it is possible to expertly place some spawn on those spots?

wow will definitely need more agar!

c10h12n2o your input has been super helpful for this project so far Thanks!


--------------------

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Re: First grow [+pics]. Any help would be appreciated. [Re: Dr_Sativa]
    #23729848 - 10/11/16 10:54 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

if its something that spawn could resolve, the existing colonies will sort it out eventually, might just take a bit. its still too soon to know for sure, it will probably finish up soon, and if it still hasnt after a couple of weeks then you can decide what to do from there

if you are planning on staying with the hobby for a while, definitely pick up some agar agar powder, a big thing of light malt extract, and order a case of petri dishes (500) for about 50-70$, its amazing how fast they go if you start working on a bunch of stuff. its way cheaper and easier that way than any other way of doing it (pp5 plates unless you are creative, pre mixed agar, pre poured dishes, buying one sleeve at a time, etc)

haha anytime buddy, as long as you keep asking questions (both here and in your head), keep reading, and take advice well, you will be impressing everyone here in no time

+5:mushroom2: btw for the great attitude:highfive1:


--------------------

C10's Agar Guide + Tips and Tricks | c10's Flow Hood Build Guide


"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."

"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
― Friedrich Nietzsche

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