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Invisiblemorty422
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Registered: 07/06/16
Posts: 988
Differential Diagnosis
    #23714827 - 10/07/16 12:10 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Differential Diagnosis





I've been watching HOUSE lately... Don't hate...

Tub has produced smaller sized mature mushrooms on all flushes...

Infoz:
-Super massive pinset - pins all over that mo-fukkah
-Incredibly even flush (all fruiting bodies maturing at same point in time)
-Clean grain spawn from clone> from agar (Shit looked super green (fifth element reference - spawn was clean-not the slightest bit bacterial-cleanest spawn I've ever had))
-High FAE during pinset/fruiting (lid off during home time/lid on while away)
-Beads of moisture evaporating and replenished at a constant
-1 Brick Coir/ 2 Quarts Vermiculite/4 quarts water
-Fruiting Conditions at Spawn run
-No watering other than misting (No bottom watering)

WHY FRUIT SO SMALL?



1: Should I attempt another tub with this culture to see if this is simply what these genes have to offer?

2: Should I bottom feed substrate with h20 next time? Does the substrate's moisture really need the boost in a first flush/second flush scenario? Do you bottom feed with water?

3: Should I get Tump to help me out seeing as how he is a government super-shroom agent?

Thanks!


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Invisibleazur
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Re: Differential Diagnosis [Re: morty422]
    #23714828 - 10/07/16 12:12 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

:laugh:uh:
You answered your own question

"Clean grain spawn from CLONE"


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Invisiblemorty422
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Re: Differential Diagnosis [Re: azur]
    #23714862 - 10/07/16 12:26 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

azur said:
:laugh:uh:
You answered your own question

"Clean grain spawn from CLONE"




There are a few different ways someone who hasn't done this for as long as you could interpret your reply...

A: Clean grain spawn from clone isn't possible?

B: Clean grain spawn from clone is the devil?

C: Clean grain spawn from CLONE.
(Clone is similar to clown-therefore should be killed/assaulted...)

D: The grain is clean- sort of straight-edge if you would... Therefore, it is not as cool as dirty spawn... dirty meaning cool?

Help me out here buddy! I enjoy looking at your avatar -but your vague post hasn't enlightened my lobes that much and I'd love to learn from your post/this thread...

Can you elaborate Azur?
:rofl: :nyan:


Edited by morty422 (10/07/16 12:35 AM)


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Invisibleazur
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Re: Differential Diagnosis [Re: morty422]
    #23714915 - 10/07/16 01:10 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

It's a clone. A small fruiting clone.


--------------------


A cube is NOT a cube.

FALL IN LOVE WITH LC
FOTTSE!!!
ALL NOOBS READ THIS!!!



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Offlinetump
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Re: Differential Diagnosis [Re: azur]
    #23714988 - 10/07/16 02:14 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Glad to join in. Azur is right genes form the clone do matter but i believe more water in you mix like 4.5 qts of water might help. Also sounds healthy and clean to me. If the water doesn't help then bluid up the c02 levels in your tub. Makes them taller with more hollow sterm so looks nice.


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Offlinemrmazdarx9
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Re: Differential Diagnosis [Re: tump]
    #23715128 - 10/07/16 04:47 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Hey tump  I thought you said you weren't gonna help Morty anymore? :rofl:


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InvisibleFriedEggS
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Registered: 09/22/14
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Re: Differential Diagnosis [Re: tump]
    #23715130 - 10/07/16 04:49 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

azur was trying to say if you clone a small mushroom, it will be small when you grow it next time. if you cloned a young pin then you won't know it's full potential. that's why we do 1 or 2 test runs.

and massive pinsets usually require a lot of water. i use the same substrate mixture as you do but i use 5.5qt of water instead of 4qt. i would try it again with more water in your substrate.

and please don't up co2 levels. there's no point starving them of air just to make them look long and skinny. you'll get a higher yield from healthier shrooms, not oxygen starved shrooms.


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Invisiblemorty422
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Re: Differential Diagnosis [Re: mrmazdarx9]
    #23715921 - 10/07/16 10:38 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

FriedEgg said:
azur was trying to say if you clone a small mushroom, it will be small when you grow it next time. if you cloned a young pin then you won't know it's full potential. that's why we do 1 or 2 test runs.

and massive pinsets usually require a lot of water. i use the same substrate mixture as you do but i use 5.5qt of water instead of 4qt. i would try it again with more water in your substrate.

and please don't up co2 levels. there's no point starving them of air just to make them look long and skinny. you'll get a higher yield from healthier shrooms, not oxygen starved shrooms.




Thanks for the advice! In no way would I allow co2 to build up. Tump's advice is border-line remedial as always.

I've gotten some really nice MS grows from MS agar I've cleaned up. These were done with substrate moisture at 4 quarts, but I definitely have room to increase water... I will try this first. The fruit I cloned was of average/above average size and excellent potency. The clone was not taken invitro on agar, it was taken from a mature specimen found in a MS mono grow.

Quote:

mrmazdarx9 said:
Hey tump  I thought you said you weren't gonna help Morty anymore? :rofl:




Tump is like herpes-there's no getting rid of him. He just pops up whenever he wants and irritates you.


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Offlinemrmazdarx9
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Re: Differential Diagnosis [Re: morty422]
    #23716123 - 10/07/16 11:49 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

:rofl:


--------------------
COCA GROWERS come here and share your knowledge
COCA GROWERS UNITE
:penis:Click here for UK trades:penis:
:penis: need some supplies in the UK check Here or PM me:penis:
UK OTD uk members chat
UK supplies and trade OTD place to chat shit
Right Here
If you use "SWIM" you should DROWN


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Differential Diagnosis [Re: tump]
    #23716138 - 10/07/16 11:52 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

tump said:
Glad to join in. Azur is right genes form the clone do matter but i believe more water in you mix like 4.5 qts of water might help. Also sounds healthy and clean to me. If the water doesn't help then bluid up the c02 levels in your tub. Makes them taller with more hollow sterm so looks nice.




A little more X axis a little less Y axis please.


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InvisibleFriedEggS
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Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 2,537
Loc: Taiwan
Re: Differential Diagnosis [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23716173 - 10/07/16 12:05 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Quote:

tump said:
Glad to join in. Azur is right genes form the clone do matter but i believe more water in you mix like 4.5 qts of water might help. Also sounds healthy and clean to me. If the water doesn't help then bluid up the c02 levels in your tub. Makes them taller with more hollow sterm so looks nice.




A little more X axis a little less Y axis please.



....... but but but... he has a government grant to grow cubes. he must know what he's talking about, right?

:doublefacepalm:


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Differential Diagnosis [Re: FriedEgg]
    #23716637 - 10/07/16 03:01 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Sometimes fruit size can be effected in odd ways. I have had clones which can produce massive fruits in dense pinsets but only with a mammoth water supply at hand, more than they need. Cultures like that often need special treatment. Combined with a dry sub (dameon5050 makes a dry sub in his bucket tek) and it's no surprise that in some cases the fruits end up small. I find that the sub will abort fruits or cause them to grow small long before the water supply is exhausted.

The fact that it's a consistent result is not surprising given its a clone. I suspect the culture is good at fruiting but not good at water transport. Azur and fried already hit that nail on the head.

I suggest that you take steps to either thin the pinset or ensure a greater supply of water or both. Try it uncased to cut down pinsite or conversely add more water and more verm to the mix. Verm holds more water that  coir so I use 3 quarts verm with 5 quarts water to a 650 gram brick. That will supply more water while maintaining the texture. Finally bottom watering might help but I would save it as a final resort. Try increased capacity of the sub first.



If none of that works it is possible that perhaps the sub is too wet. Over wet sub often results in small fruits. I weigh my coir bricks and if they are well below 650 grams I will either add more verm or use less water to keep the capacity even. Of course if you were to post a pic of these fruits many could tell right away if the sub was too wet. Pics man :wink:


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Differential Diagnosis [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23716657 - 10/07/16 03:08 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I weigh all my bricks I've had ones as low as 560


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Differential Diagnosis [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23716662 - 10/07/16 03:08 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
I weigh all my bricks I've had ones as low as 560




Yup it makes a hell of a difference


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Differential Diagnosis [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23716674 - 10/07/16 03:12 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

fucking 3 packs of eco earth sometimes rip you off, better go to the store than order them, they send you the B stock and eco earth is already D stock as it is.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Differential Diagnosis [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23716690 - 10/07/16 03:16 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Lol I know what ya mean. I have sorted through the bricks sometimes and found one 3 pack that weighs twice as much as the next 3 pack.


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Invisiblemorty422
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Registered: 07/06/16
Posts: 988
Re: Differential Diagnosis [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23717095 - 10/07/16 05:32 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Sometimes fruit size can be effected in odd ways. I have had clones which can produce massive fruits in dense pinsets but only with a mammoth water supply at hand, more than they need. Cultures like that often need special treatment. Combined with a dry sub (dameon5050 makes a dry sub in his bucket tek) and it's no surprise that in some cases the fruits end up small. I find that the sub will abort fruits or cause them to grow small long before the water supply is exhausted.

The fact that it's a consistent result is not surprising given its a clone. I suspect the culture is good at fruiting but not good at water transport. Azur and fried already hit that nail on the head.

I suggest that you take steps to either thin the pinset or ensure a greater supply of water or both. Try it uncased to cut down pinsite or conversely add more water and more verm to the mix. Verm holds more water that  coir so I use 3 quarts verm with 5 quarts water to a 650 gram brick. That will supply more water while maintaining the texture. Finally bottom watering might help but I would save it as a final resort. Try increased capacity of the sub first.



If none of that works it is possible that perhaps the sub is too wet. Over wet sub often results in small fruits. I weigh my coir bricks and if they are well below 650 grams I will either add more verm or use less water to keep the capacity even. Of course if you were to post a pic of these fruits many could tell right away if the sub was too wet. Pics man :wink:




Good on you.

I'm thinking it's a substrate moisture issue - as from what you've said about the bucket tek being dry. Also, the cloned fruit was a fairly large one.
Not sure what that has to do with the end result though...
I imagine that a culture from a clone doesn't necessarily mean it is going to be a mirror image of the cloned fruit? I think I remember reading in a past post that cloned cultures can produce fruits that are a bit different than the original? 

Vermiculite holding more water than coir is something I hadn't thought about - even though I already know this bit of information... :facepalm:
Adding more water to the mix + upping the vermiculite used in the substrate sounds like an excellent way to boost the substrate's moisture level!

On the other side of the coin, small as they were - the yield was fairly in line with 1oz - 1quart which is where my average yield sits right now anyway.

I just wanted to see some bigger fruits-ya know? 

Yes - next tub - pictures... Impossible now as the substrate is already in the backyard. Hehe.

I have sort of been skimping on the pics lately for most of my tubs-I should probably get into the habit of taking more pictures. You never know when it will be helpful later.

Thanks a lot everyone!


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