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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
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Answers to morality.
#23715266 - 10/07/16 06:34 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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What is perceptual distinguishment of good and bad? Cognisance of good and bad is knowledge of morality. Morality is being able to distinguish good from bad. To be able to experience a subjective sensation. There is no objective morality. Morality is fluid and subjective. There is only one objective purpose and it is that of life to spread.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


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Re: Answers to morality. [Re: sudly]
#23715343 - 10/07/16 07:04 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Many terms in the English language (or any other language) are fluid and subjective, and because of this the OP wraps your noble premise in too much foam to expose its working elements.
I cannot even make clear sense about what the first line means, can you rewrite your premise more clearly?
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yeah



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Re: Answers to morality. [Re: sudly]
#23715520 - 10/07/16 08:01 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I don't think you can find consensus reality in morality.
It's a soul searching kind of thing, dude.
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Jaegar
Formless One



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Re: Answers to morality. [Re: sudly]
#23715560 - 10/07/16 08:22 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeh basically.
Use the organisms basic needs to manipulate the dross with religion and superstition. Fuk I like fireworks to.
But I'm curious what our creativity will invent even as a pessimist. Most of it is retarded but sometimes it's stimulating.
Edited by Jaegar (10/07/16 08:24 AM)
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


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Re: Answers to morality. [Re: sudly]
#23715688 - 10/07/16 09:10 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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So you believe in moral relativism? I personally believe in two types of morality -- a relative set of moralities promulgated by various cultures, differing across different societies in certain ways. I also think there is a universal morality rooted in compassion. I feel that beings superior to ourselves would subscribe to such a morality.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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Jaegar
Formless One



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Hmm associating a human emotion like compassion with other intelligent life. Sounds a bit silly.
Maybe the ultra advanced squids have no notion of such petty pretences.
Edited by Jaegar (10/07/16 09:28 AM)
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


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Re: Answers to morality. [Re: Jaegar]
#23715754 - 10/07/16 09:37 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Love is an emotion, compassion is not.
From Merriam-Webster:
compassion, n. sympathetic consciousness of others' distress together with a desire to alleviate it
I definitely think of compassion as sympathetic consciousness. It is much more of an existential configuration than simply an emotion.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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Jaegar
Formless One



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Yeah I don't think we would have any relationship of any significance to a advanced species. How much do you have with a ant?
I think we definitely have a penchant for inflating our uniqueness.
Edited by Jaegar (10/07/16 09:45 AM)
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


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Re: Answers to morality. [Re: Jaegar]
#23715785 - 10/07/16 09:46 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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You're possibly right.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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yeah



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None of your business
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Edited by yeah (10/07/16 10:50 AM)
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Alexestalex
fallen angel


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Loc: heart of the sun
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Re: Answers to morality. [Re: sudly]
#23716015 - 10/07/16 11:11 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I wouldn't say spreading life is an objective purpose
For some people it's a subjective purpose because they choose to label procreation as purposeful but it isn't inherently meaningful
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Stay far from timid, only make moves when your heart's in it.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
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Yes, my ideas are in line with moral relativism.
I'm not referring directly to human reproduction, I'm referring to an objective purpose in life as the tendency of DNA to replicate itself.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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phio


Registered: 10/07/16
Posts: 369
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Re: Answers to morality. [Re: sudly]
#23716947 - 10/07/16 04:39 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: There is only one objective purpose and it is that of life to spread.
Otherwise stated as : > Increased understanding > Increased manifestations of such understanding which leads to >Increased enjoyment, peace, and harmony This is the good moral path that is not always taken.
Highlight any range of immoral or bad acts and most typically you'll find the root being a misunderstanding or a lack of complete understanding in the individual perpetuating such acts. Most of the worlds suffering is due to this. Lack of complete understanding is seemingly a 'feature' however. There has to be something to keep this all going...
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
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Re: Answers to morality. [Re: phio]
#23716971 - 10/07/16 04:47 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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With morality being both an individual choice and a social construct, I don't know what you mean.
Suffering it just a part of nature, but so is joy and happiness.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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bigdoodie
it does not matter


Registered: 06/24/16
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Re: Answers to morality. [Re: sudly] 1
#23717001 - 10/07/16 04:57 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Selflessness and evidence.
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yeah



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Re: Answers to morality. [Re: bigdoodie]
#23717047 - 10/07/16 05:12 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
bigdoodie said: Selflessness and evidence.
Honor
Edited by yeah (10/07/16 05:13 PM)
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
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Re: Answers to morality. [Re: bigdoodie]
#23717053 - 10/07/16 05:14 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I like that
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said: Love is an emotion, compassion is not.
From Merriam-Webster:
compassion, n. sympathetic consciousness of others' distress together with a desire to alleviate it
I definitely think of compassion as sympathetic consciousness. It is much more of an existential configuration than simply an emotion.
If love is an emotion then is compassion not a sensation?
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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phio


Registered: 10/07/16
Posts: 369
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Re: Answers to morality. [Re: sudly]
#23717108 - 10/07/16 05:36 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: With morality being both an individual choice and a social construct, I don't know what you mean.
Suffering it just a part of nature, but so is joy and happiness.
You get what I am saying.... Don't be coy Sudly

Suffering occurs due to a lack of understanding. A lack of total understanding is necessary for free-will and subjective experience. True enough, suffering is natural.
Ultimately, total understanding dictates what is objectively good/bad. Correct, human beings don't maintain total understanding which is why they function off incomplete and flawed versions of it : morality and other social constructs.
So, again stated "Highlight any range of immoral or bad acts and most typically you'll find the root being a misunderstanding or a lack of complete understanding in the individual perpetuating such acts. Most of the worlds suffering is due to this. Lack of complete understanding is seemingly a 'feature' however. There has to be something to keep this all going..."
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
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Re: Answers to morality. [Re: phio]
#23717130 - 10/07/16 05:44 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Not understanding is necessary for subjective experiences?
Thank you, I now understand just as much as I did before because again I don't know what you mean.
People have different morals so of course they won't agree on everything.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


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Posts: 9,819
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Re: Answers to morality. [Re: sudly]
#23717161 - 10/07/16 05:58 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said:
Quote:
DividedQuantum said: Love is an emotion, compassion is not.
From Merriam-Webster:
compassion, n. sympathetic consciousness of others' distress together with a desire to alleviate it
I definitely think of compassion as sympathetic consciousness. It is much more of an existential configuration than simply an emotion.
If love is an emotion then is compassion not a sensation?
No, it isn't.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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phio


Registered: 10/07/16
Posts: 369
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Re: Answers to morality. [Re: sudly]
#23717166 - 10/07/16 06:00 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: Not understanding is necessary for subjective experiences?
Not maintaining an entirety of understanding is necessary for subjective experience. Yes.
Quote:
sudly said: Thank you, I now understand just as much as I did before because again I don't know what you mean.
Quote:
sudly said: People have different morals so of course they won't agree on everything.
To maintain free-will and subjective experience.... For life to continue as it is... it cannot be that everything is in agreeance.
You disagree? K, that's the whole point. You're a quick study
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said:
Quote:
sudly said:
Quote:
DividedQuantum said: Love is an emotion, compassion is not.
From Merriam-Webster:
compassion, n. sympathetic consciousness of others' distress together with a desire to alleviate it
I definitely think of compassion as sympathetic consciousness. It is much more of an existential configuration than simply an emotion.
If love is an emotion then is compassion not a sensation?
No, it isn't.
If compassion isn't an emotion and it isn't a sensation then it has to be a feeling.(what else could it be?)
Which in turn means that compassion is an emotion because feelings are emotions.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
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Re: Answers to morality. [Re: phio]
#23717233 - 10/07/16 06:16 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
phio said:
Quote:
sudly said: Not understanding is necessary for subjective experiences?
Not maintaining an entirety of understanding is necessary for subjective experience. Yes.
Quote:
sudly said: Thank you, I now understand just as much as I did before because again I don't know what you mean.
Quote:
sudly said: People have different morals so of course they won't agree on everything.
To maintain free-will and subjective experience.... For life to continue as it is... it cannot be that everything is in agreeance.
You disagree? K, that's the whole point. You're a quick study

There can be an entirety of understanding that there is a distinction between a subjective experience and an objective purpose. That distinction being that a subjective experience occurs internally within the physiology of a human being whereas an objective purpose is something that occurs in nature irrelevant of thought, opinion or human construct.
With duality there can be agreeance. Body and Mind, Yin and Yang.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


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Posts: 9,819
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Re: Answers to morality. [Re: sudly]
#23717295 - 10/07/16 06:34 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said:
Quote:
DividedQuantum said:
Quote:
sudly said:
Quote:
DividedQuantum said: Love is an emotion, compassion is not.
From Merriam-Webster:
compassion, n. sympathetic consciousness of others' distress together with a desire to alleviate it
I definitely think of compassion as sympathetic consciousness. It is much more of an existential configuration than simply an emotion.
If love is an emotion then is compassion not a sensation?
No, it isn't.
If compassion isn't an emotion and it isn't a sensation then it has to be a feeling.(what else could it be?)
Which in turn means that compassion is an emotion because feelings are emotions.

sudly, if you can't understand compassion, I'm just sorry.
It's more like an understanding and a sympathy between souls. It's not an emotion, or a sensation, or a feeling. It is ethereal.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
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Oh right, you people are into bullshit..
For me compassion is a sensation I feel when I can mentally put myself in the shoes of another. Like a time I was at a train station on a rainy night and a homeless, mentally ill man came up to me and began talking about his life crisis and how he'd need to get on the train to find a dry place to sleep.
A few minutes after getting on the train I began to think about his situation and could relate it to my own experiences, it was then that I felt what I would call a sensation of compassion so I got up and gave the man some money for a meal.
The reason I did that is because I felt compassionate.
Quote:
Compassionate: feeling or showing sympathy and concern for others.
P.S. I have no soul.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Re: Answers to morality. [Re: sudly]
#23717429 - 10/07/16 07:15 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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You need to separate the compassion itself from the feelings it gives rise to. There are two factors there, not just one.
Quote:
sudly said: P.S. I have no soul.
Maybe that explains it?
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
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The two factors are thoughts and sensations. There are thoughts that result in sensations(e.g. anxiety) that result in actions that can display compassion.
What you call a soul I call the Central Nervous System.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


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Re: Answers to morality. [Re: sudly]
#23717481 - 10/07/16 07:29 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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You are entitled to think whatever you want. That is one legitimate human freedom. I differ from you, but wish you a good day, sir.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
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Amen.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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BrendanFlock
Stranger


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I think its more about cause and effect..the continuation of the universe and all the beings inside it..its a dynamic causm..and it cant be contained known..or even entertained..even the idea of rational morality...disapears like a fart in the wind..only the moral solvent of a sorcerer can save humanity! Please be willing to go with my Mojo on this..because I think morality is always in the words..and tone of voice of a person..so if you are nice..then we can get along..and surely your stance on morality cant change?
Or ken it?
But because I am a sorcerer, I have the legal right to source anybody in and out of the causm of time...so am I allowed to cast magic in public? Surely this is true..but based on the causm itself..I think most people are safe..and most morality arguments...are based on the safety of the person in question..so the saying goes..the longer you know someone..the more likely you are to get into a fight? Well its part of the philosophers stone..or thought causm itself..
People have criminal thoughts everyday...but to actualize them in public could result in jail or hospital treatment...so we have a general agreement between the citizens of society..that we can blend with the laws of Mother Nature..and have our ideal morality set in stone..as it appears on screen... or to the effect...Det, Iota..
Absorbed into time? Well yes..I think taking the eternal perspective of good vs evil...is longing to die anyways...I like to be good at everything..I do..Including morality..!
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phio


Registered: 10/07/16
Posts: 369
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Re: Answers to morality. [Re: sudly]
#23717728 - 10/07/16 08:38 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: There can be an entirety of understanding that there is a distinction between a subjective experience and an objective purpose.
Sure. However, that cannot be maintained by a free-willed entity capable of subjective experience as subjective experience precludes an entirety of understanding. See, I knew you had it in you.
Quote:
sudly said: That distinction being that a subjective experience occurs internally within the physiology of a human being whereas an objective purpose is something that occurs in nature irrelevant of thought, opinion or human construct.
You're soo coy. Hitting on all cylinders now..

Quote:
sudly said: With duality there can be agreeance. Body and Mind, Yin and Yang.

Well yes.. Ultimately, everything is everything. Humans are limited as to what they can perceive and understand in this way. Thus, they have free-will and subjective experience which leads to suffering. Can't have your cake and eat it too.
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phio


Registered: 10/07/16
Posts: 369
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Re: Answers to morality. [Re: sudly]
#23717746 - 10/07/16 08:42 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: The two factors are thoughts and sensations. There are thoughts that result in sensations(e.g. anxiety) that result in actions that can display compassion.
What you call a soul I call the Central Nervous System.
You're such a sassy one Sudly .. You keep fighting it even though you know better deep down
Edited by phio (10/07/16 08:51 PM)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
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I think love is that yin yang thing that means well and perpetuates itself.
this pervades everything in life. we have to unblock it sometimes because things got insane and screwed up.
that's love.
at the yin yang level it is sensation, it is a feeling too (one of pleasure not pain), and wrapped up in experiences it becomes emotion.
Compassion originates from mind, and it invokes love to adjust what has come undone. Humans do not have a monopoly on either love or compassion
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
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Re: Answers to morality. [Re: phio]
#23717774 - 10/07/16 08:51 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Free will and suffering can co-exist, I don't disagree with that.
Love and hate can co-exist too. So can fear and joy, envy and lust, happiness and sadness.
Feelings and thoughts are distinct from each other in how they are experienced and together they make up our sensations and emotions.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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hTx
(:



Registered: 03/27/13
Posts: 5,724
Loc: Space-time
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Re: Answers to morality. [Re: sudly]
#23717787 - 10/07/16 08:53 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Compassion is the act, empathy is the feeling.
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
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phio


Registered: 10/07/16
Posts: 369
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Re: Answers to morality. [Re: sudly]
#23717814 - 10/07/16 09:06 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: Free will and suffering can co-exist, I don't disagree with that.
Suffering is a result of free-will. Of course they co-exist. There's a casual relationship that links them. It has already been detailed how/why.
Quote:
sudly said: Love and hate can co-exist too. So can fear and joy, envy and lust, happiness and sadness.
You say co-exist as if you fail to see the deeper relationships. When seeded, you pronounce it... Speak truly and deeply Sudly. I know you're capable beyond your mechanistic pronouncements. You speak of objective purpose beyond yet tie yourself to mechanistic statements. Is there something that you don't want to let go of that holds you back?
Quote:
sudly said: Feelings and thoughts are distinct from each other in how they are experienced but together they make up our sensations and emotions.
Hickory, dickory, dock. The mouse ran up the clock. The clock struck one, The mouse ran down, Hickory, dickory, dock
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
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Re: Answers to morality. [Re: hTx]
#23717879 - 10/07/16 09:30 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
hTx said: Compassion is the act, empathy is the feeling.
I'm pretty sure compassion is acting on sympathy but the gist sounds right.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
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Re: Answers to morality. [Re: sudly]
#23717894 - 10/07/16 09:35 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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The suffering of a paper cut is not because of free will, it is because the human is a mechanistic organism and when the skins surface is cut, pain receptors transmit pain signals to the brain which is felt as pain.
Objective purpose isn't beyond anything, objective purpose is the mechanistic process of RNA transcription.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
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Re: Answers to morality. [Re: sudly]
#23718004 - 10/07/16 10:26 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said:
Quote:
hTx said: Compassion is the act, empathy is the feeling.
I'm pretty sure compassion is acting on sympathy but the gist sounds right.
we three agree fuck I hate it when that happens!
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