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Offlinemorrowasted
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Should people be treated as equals or as individuals? * 1
    #23714237 - 10/06/16 07:50 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I know this is a false dichotomy but it is a question on the Meyers-Briggs corresponding to the Feeling/Thinking personality types.

Feelers, it said, answer that people should be treated as individuals, whereas thinkers answer that people should be treated as equals. I was given the test recently during occupational counseling and challenged this assumption, stating that I think people should be treated as individuals because equal treatment, while generally honorable in intent, sometimes has unfair results.

For example, if an apple hanging from an apple tree is 9 feet off the ground and three people, one 6', one 5'6", and one 5' tall, are given an equally sized 3 foot step ladder, that helps the first person without helping the second two.. the 5' person needs a 4' step ladder and the 5'6" needs a 3'6" ladder.

I did not arrive at this conclusion because my heart bleeds for each and every individual person, however, but because my rational mind came to the conclusion that it was logical. Thus I argued that my answer corresponded to the Thinking personality type.
Equals or Individuals?
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from (10/06/16 07:50 PM) to (No end specified)
View the results of this poll



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Invisiblefalsereality


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Re: Should people be treated as equals or as individuals? [Re: morrowasted]
    #23714251 - 10/06/16 07:57 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Both.

*INTP/J masterrace.


Edited by falsereality (10/06/16 07:58 PM)


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Should people be treated as equals or as individuals? [Re: falsereality]
    #23714260 - 10/06/16 08:00 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

falsereality said:
Both.

*INTP/J masterrace.



Not so subtle "I didn't read the post" post.

Quote:

I know this is a false dichotomy but it is a question on the Meyers-Briggs corresponding to the Feeling/Thinking personality types.




The question is designed to make you think about how you approach your judgments and decisions.

I'm an INTP as well


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: Should people be treated as equals or as individuals? [Re: morrowasted]
    #23714265 - 10/06/16 08:02 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I am also INTP :strokebeard:


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Should people be treated as equals or as individuals? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #23714270 - 10/06/16 08:04 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
I am also INTP :strokebeard:



I'd bet money it's the most common personality type on this message board.


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Invisiblefalsereality


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Re: Should people be treated as equals or as individuals? [Re: morrowasted] * 1
    #23714271 - 10/06/16 08:04 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

It is not a false dichotomy because both terms apply, it's better to treat people as both individuals and equals. Without treating people as equal to you, you can't find out the depths of their individualism.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Should people be treated as equals or as individuals? [Re: falsereality]
    #23714275 - 10/06/16 08:05 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

falsereality said:
It is not a false dichotomy because both terms apply, it's better to treat people as both individuals and equals.



I don't think you understand what a false dichotomy is...


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Invisiblefalsereality


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Re: Should people be treated as equals or as individuals? [Re: morrowasted]
    #23714283 - 10/06/16 08:08 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
I don't think you understand what a false dichotomy is...




:facepalm:, my bad. You get my point though?


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: Should people be treated as equals or as individuals? [Re: morrowasted]
    #23714288 - 10/06/16 08:11 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Both.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Should people be treated as equals or as individuals? [Re: falsereality]
    #23714299 - 10/06/16 08:15 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

falsereality said:
Quote:

morrowasted said:
I don't think you understand what a false dichotomy is...




:facepalm:, my bad. You get my point though?



Your point is stupid. It is evading the question. Clearly everyone should try their best to act in the interest of all positive principles when possible. But we are forced to make choices.

Quote:


The question is designed to make you think about how you approach your judgments and decisions.


 

For example, if two people are poor and want to buy a 5 dollar item, and one has 50 cents, and one has 2 dollars, and I give them both 3 dollars, clearly I am not treating them both as equals AND individuals in any meaningful sense of the word. If I were treating them as individuals I would give the one with 50 cents 4.50 and the other one 3 dollars. It's pretty simple.


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Invisiblefalsereality


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Re: Should people be treated as equals or as individuals? [Re: morrowasted]
    #23714308 - 10/06/16 08:18 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

:trump:


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Offlinenuentoter
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Re: Should people be treated as equals or as individuals? [Re: morrowasted]
    #23714372 - 10/06/16 08:41 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
Quote:

falsereality said:
Quote:

morrowasted said:
I don't think you understand what a false dichotomy is...




:facepalm:, my bad. You get my point though?



Your point is stupid. It is evading the question. Clearly everyone should try their best to act in the interest of all positive principles when possible. But we are forced to make choices.

Quote:


The question is designed to make you think about how you approach your judgments and decisions.


 

For example, if two people are poor and want to buy a 5 dollar item, and one has 50 cents, and one has 2 dollars, and I give them both 3 dollars, clearly I am not treating them both as equals AND individuals in any meaningful sense of the word. If I were treating them as individuals I would give the one with 50 cents 4.50 and the other one 3 dollars. It's pretty simple.





Your right we are forced to make choices but that does not mean it has to be A or B. There can be C,D,E, even not choosing is a choice (funny how that works). Give the two poor people nothing and instead shoot the shit with then for 20 minutes joke around or buy them each their $5 item. Both.

I'm not trying to rag on you, just open your perception and realize there is room for a million shades of grey between black and white.


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InvisibleCelestial Traveler
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Re: Should people be treated as equals or as individuals? [Re: morrowasted]
    #23714424 - 10/06/16 09:01 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

So is the implication that people who feel more than they think will treat people as individuals?  Whereas more logical and rational people will respond that they should be treated as equals?

You reasoned that people should be treated as individuals, because when they are treated as equals it can lead to unfair outcomes.  To me this sounds like a rational and logical reason for why you share the position that is associated with the "feelers."

I think a lot of personality tests are not as objective as people would like to believe them to be, because there are certain implicit biases such as these.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Should people be treated as equals or as individuals? [Re: nuentoter]
    #23714431 - 10/06/16 09:04 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

nuentoter said:
Quote:

morrowasted said:
Quote:

falsereality said:
Quote:

morrowasted said:
I don't think you understand what a false dichotomy is...




:facepalm:, my bad. You get my point though?



Your point is stupid. It is evading the question. Clearly everyone should try their best to act in the interest of all positive principles when possible. But we are forced to make choices.

Quote:


The question is designed to make you think about how you approach your judgments and decisions.


 

For example, if two people are poor and want to buy a 5 dollar item, and one has 50 cents, and one has 2 dollars, and I give them both 3 dollars, clearly I am not treating them both as equals AND individuals in any meaningful sense of the word. If I were treating them as individuals I would give the one with 50 cents 4.50 and the other one 3 dollars. It's pretty simple.





Your right we are forced to make choices but that does not mean it has to be A or B. There can be C,D,E, even not choosing is a choice (funny how that works). Give the two poor people nothing and instead shoot the shit with then for 20 minutes joke around or buy them each their $5 item. Both.

I'm not trying to rag on you, just open your perception and realize there is room for a million shades of grey between black and white.


The former suggestion you made falls into "treating people as individuals" whereas the latter falls into "treating people as equals"

leave it up to the shroomery to try and be super edgy and take a simple question and act like it's below them, like they are far too intellectually advanced for the puny categorical preconceptions it implies. you guys think I am dumb? No, I am not dumb. I am smart enough to realize that just because there are alternative ways of thinking about how to treat people does not mean it's impossible to answer the question, "should people be treated as individuals or as equals?"


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Should people be treated as equals or as individuals? [Re: Celestial Traveler]
    #23714443 - 10/06/16 09:08 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Celestial Traveler said:
So is the implication that people who feel more than they think will treat people as individuals?  Whereas more logical and rational people will respond that they should be treated as equals?

You reasoned that people should be treated as individuals, because when they are treated as equals it can lead to unfair outcomes.  To me this sounds like a rational and logical reason for why you share the position that is associated with the "feelers."

I think a lot of personality tests are not as objective as people would like to believe them to be, because there are certain implicit biases such as these.



That is correct. I am "instinctively" an INTP but I can come across as an INFP at times when I voice my opinions.

For example, one of the questions in this category was, "What's more important, Objective Truth or Peace and Harmony?" Thinkers are said to value Objective Truth whereas feelers are said to value Peace and Harmony. I, however, being a thinker, value Peace and Harmony, because I have come to believe that even if objective truths exist, it is virtually impossible for them to be useful unless they are agreed upon, which is impossible without harmony. Harmony comes first and opens the gateway to the possibility for the utilization of objective truth.


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InvisibleCelestial Traveler
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Re: Should people be treated as equals or as individuals? [Re: morrowasted]
    #23714454 - 10/06/16 09:12 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

That's a good point, which to me, supports the idea that these tests are flawed, because they don't allow room for "grey areas", and they have these implicit biases that certain people can only think one way or value one thing for only one reason.


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InvisibleFrozenHappiness
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Re: Should people be treated as equals or as individuals? [Re: morrowasted]
    #23714456 - 10/06/16 09:13 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Individuals.

Treating people as equals implies there is a one size fits all way to treat everybody. Treating people as equals is in fact the way bureaucracy gets things done, and I am sure we have all experienced how frustrating the bureaucratic process can be.


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InvisibleCelestial Traveler
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Re: Should people be treated as equals or as individuals? [Re: morrowasted]
    #23714458 - 10/06/16 09:13 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I get it that you probably still want to take the test anyway just for fun, but it seems to me that people get riled up about these tests and argue a lot about them when I don't think it's worth it.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Should people be treated as equals or as individuals? [Re: Celestial Traveler]
    #23714481 - 10/06/16 09:23 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Celestial Traveler said:
I get it that you probably still want to take the test anyway just for fun, but it seems to me that people get riled up about these tests and argue a lot about them when I don't think it's worth it.



I actually took it as part of a career test so I am glad I was able to explain to the career counselor in person why I disagreed with some of the conclusions. The MBTI was not a very important component of it


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: Should people be treated as equals or as individuals? [Re: morrowasted]
    #23714530 - 10/06/16 09:45 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Hell naw, some people are straight up genetic dead ends. We'd be nothing as a society if we believed in equality and implemented it across the board.


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OfflineConnoisseur

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Re: Should people be treated as equals or as individuals? [Re: morrowasted]
    #23714535 - 10/06/16 09:47 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

STAL because it depends on the situation


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InvisibleMad_Larkin
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Re: Should people be treated as equals or as individuals? [Re: morrowasted]
    #23714536 - 10/06/16 09:47 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

i don't think society as we know it would be able to function if people were truly treated as individuals, "equality" is a necessary fiction


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Invisiblefalsereality


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Re: Should people be treated as equals or as individuals? [Re: morrowasted]
    #23714550 - 10/06/16 09:55 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Three INTPs walk into a bar. The bartender asks them what they would like to drink. They start arguing.

Which of the three is right?


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: Should people be treated as equals or as individuals? [Re: Mad_Larkin]
    #23714552 - 10/06/16 09:56 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Wheres equality exist? People compete for jobs, grades, women. What part of this society is based in it?


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InvisiblezZZz
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Re: Should people be treated as equals or as individuals? [Re: morrowasted] * 2
    #23714561 - 10/06/16 10:02 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

The question is invalid, op. It makes no sense, it's like saying which arm would u rather use, ur left or right?, naturally if ure a righty ure going to choose right, and if ure a lefty well then ure going to choose to use the left arm, not to mention u weren't even told what the purpose of choosing either of them was. There are just too many variables involved to give a solid awnser.

If someone handed me a piece of paper with those questions listed and asked me to awnser them, I'd roll it up into a ball and toss it in the trash. I'm edgy af what can I say.


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InvisibleCosmic_Flame
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Re: Should people be treated as equals or as individuals? [Re: zZZz] * 1
    #23714675 - 10/06/16 10:53 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

this is such an intp thread


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: Should people be treated as equals or as individuals? [Re: Cosmic_Flame]
    #23714683 - 10/06/16 10:57 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Last time I took that test I came out as INTP and I think INFJ, it said it couldnt differentiate me between the two.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Should people be treated as equals or as individuals? [Re: zZZz]
    #23714723 - 10/06/16 11:11 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zZZz said:
The question is invalid, op. It makes no sense, it's like saying which arm would u rather use, ur left or right?, naturally if ure a righty ure going to choose right, and if ure a lefty well then ure going to choose to use the left arm, not to mention u weren't even told what the purpose of choosing either of them was. There are just too many variables involved to give a solid awnser.

If someone handed me a piece of paper with those questions listed and asked me to awnser them, I'd roll it up into a ball and toss it in the trash. I'm edgy af what can I say.



That is a godawful analogy. The question makes sense. The question, "Would you rather use your left or right arm" also makes sense, and obviously as a right handed person I will choose my right arm, and because the answer is so obvious and both answers are essentially the same but just dependent upon whether the responder is right handed or left handed, the question is not analogous to the question in the OP at all. Jung might try to argue that the answer is obvious is dependent upon whether the responder is a Thinker or a Feeler, but as I argued in the OP that assumption is highly debatable.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Should people be treated as equals or as individuals? [Re: morrowasted]
    #23714751 - 10/06/16 11:24 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Both actually make sense depending on the circumstance.

If I am in charge of a classroom, and one child is clearly mentally disabled or handicapped, it makes no sense to give this person the same curriculum and coursework as the rest of the class. Same goes for the advanced student, a kid who's a child prodigy should be given coursework that's several grades above them.

I mean, nobody clearly truly treats or perceives everybody as equal, this is impossible. It's the entire reason minors don't have the same rights that adults do. It's the entire reason mentally retarded people can pretty much commit any crime and get away with it, even rape, and they will basically be forgiven and won't be prosecuted because they aren't capable of processing logical thought or even right from wrong.

In the case of running a workplace, on some level all entry-level employees should start from the same salary. Perhaps if some have more advanced education or end up performing much better than other employees, you should give the better-performing ones a raise or a promotion.


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Offlinenuentoter
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Re: Should people be treated as equals or as individuals? [Re: Crystal G]
    #23715193 - 10/07/16 05:51 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I am not above anything, whatsoever. My point was that it is possible to interact with people on an individual basis but still treat them equally. Not trying to be "edgy" lol, I guess I just don't really see things in those terms. It seems like a force perspective that is inadequate in realistic situations.

I never implied you were dumb, and never implied or thought I was intellectually above anything. It's just not easy of looking at things. In a real test I would be incredibly hard pressed not check both boxes.


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The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know.  - @entheolove

"I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for"  - Georgia O'Keefe

I think the word is vagina


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OfflineChakra Shock
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Re: Should people be treated as equals or as individuals? [Re: morrowasted]
    #23715441 - 10/07/16 07:39 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Isn't it a false dichotomy to split people up into the category of "thinkers" and "feelers" anyways? I think a lot and also feel a lot. My feelings influence my thoughts and my thought process also influences my feelings. Isn't that just natural to the human condition? I found it impossible to choose between the two because I try to treat people as individuals with an emphasis on feeling compassion for all beings, which is a feeling of equality.


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: Should people be treated as equals or as individuals? [Re: Chakra Shock]
    #23715584 - 10/07/16 08:30 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Individuals 100%.

This "were all equal" is complete bullshit. A celebrity dies, the world grinds to a halt, when you die, 99.99% of the city you live in won't give a fuck.

We have money to feed starving Africans but we spend it on museums and over priced beer at sporting events. We don't give a fuck.

Equality is a word people choose to believe in to make themselves look good. There's no such thing as equality. Probably never will be either.


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: Should people be treated as equals or as individuals? [Re: morrowasted]
    #23715596 - 10/07/16 08:34 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Obviously you should treat people as individuals, not equals. Otherwise you'd be asking people in wheelchairs to help you move furniture, buying beer for minors, flirting with obvious bull dykes, and shit like.


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OfflineLove_spirit
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Re: Should people be treated as equals or as individuals? [Re: morrowasted]
    #23715599 - 10/07/16 08:36 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

those two things are not mutually exclusive. Treat people on their own individual merit without prejudice.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Should people be treated as equals or as individuals? [Re: Great Scott]
    #23715601 - 10/07/16 08:37 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
Obviously you should treat people as individuals, not equals. Otherwise you'd be asking people in wheelchairs to help you move furniture, buying beer for minors, flirting with obvious bull dykes, and shit like.




Technically if you're treating everybody as equals, wouldn't you be flirting with everybody, male or female and everything in between? :flowstone:


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InvisiblezZZz
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Re: Should people be treated as equals or as individuals? [Re: Crystal G]
    #23715969 - 10/07/16 10:55 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Peeps could be treated as equals even in op's analogy with the whole apple tree, like ok those 3 dudes each got a difference sized ladder and one of the lil fuckers couldn't reach the tree,  well what if one of the taller dudes took it upon himself to gather up some apples for the short dudes?, wouldn't that be considered equality?..

Shit still don't make any sense..


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InvisibleMad_Larkin
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Re: Should people be treated as equals or as individuals? [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #23716158 - 10/07/16 12:00 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
Wheres equality exist? People compete for jobs, grades, women. What part of this society is based in it?




the obvious answer would be: in areas intrinsic to the democratic process, like voting

also the court systems wouldn't be able to function if people were treated as individuals, it'd turn into a complete circus and nobody would ever end up being convicted (or even showing up), because a true individual makes his(her/their/red ropes') own laws

Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
Obviously you should treat people as individuals, not equals. Otherwise you'd be asking people in wheelchairs to help you move furniture, buying beer for minors, flirting with obvious bull dykes, and shit like.




shit, that's where i've been going wrong


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