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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
Re: How would you describe red to a blind man? [Re: sudly]
    #23729327 - 10/11/16 07:57 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

would not the observation of color be a concept after the sensing, by an observer process, i.e. self or mind?


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
Re: How would you describe red to a blind man? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23730030 - 10/12/16 12:22 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I wouldn't say so because specific colours have specific wavelengths.
Although in a way I guess you are sensing the colour with your eyes too.


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Invisiblephio


Registered: 10/07/16
Posts: 369
Re: How would you describe red to a blind man? [Re: sudly]
    #23730065 - 10/12/16 12:58 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Technical :
Color
A specific frequency of occurrence...
Something coming into and out of 'existence' at a certain rate which takes on certain Qualia that you can make subjective associations with.

Non-Technical :
Vision
Vision is just another vista of energy which, like sound, has a palette of frequency (occurrence). Essentially, the world takes on a characteristic in which it is 'painted' (draped) in sound.

Red
Warmth .. an experience that distinctly stands out from the highs, lows, and seems to constructively envelop both.


Edited by phio (10/12/16 01:05 AM)


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
Re: How would you describe red to a blind man? [Re: phio]
    #23730076 - 10/12/16 01:10 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Colour doesn't come into or out of existence, different colours of the rainbow are different frequencies of white light coming from the Sun.

Vision is the processing of frequencies of light whereas sounds is the processing of pressure waves, they're not the same thing.

Red and warmth sounds good. :thumbup:


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Invisiblephio


Registered: 10/07/16
Posts: 369
Re: How would you describe red to a blind man? [Re: sudly]
    #23730092 - 10/12/16 01:27 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
Colour doesn't come into or out of existence, different colours of the rainbow are different frequencies of white light coming from the Sun.

Vision is the processing of frequencies of light whereas sounds is the processing of pressure waves, they're not the same thing.





You asked how to explain red/vision/color to a blind person, the descriptive association with sound and things they can perceive are to help facilitate that explanation.

Relax Sudly.. A discussion of the true nature of reality would blow your top off as would Gamma rays....
:nicesmile:


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
Re: How would you describe red to a blind man? [Re: phio]
    #23730105 - 10/12/16 01:36 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I don't disagree with that.
Ecology was pretty good at exposing me to the true nature of reality.


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OfflineHippocampus
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Re: How would you describe red to a blind man? [Re: sudly]
    #23731179 - 10/12/16 12:52 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Sometimes I wonder if other people see colors differently than me.  What if, what looks like red to me looks like yellow through their eyes?


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Invisiblephio


Registered: 10/07/16
Posts: 369
Re: How would you describe red to a blind man? [Re: Hippocampus]
    #23731403 - 10/12/16 02:16 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Hippocampus said:
Sometimes I wonder if other people see colors differently than me.  What if, what looks like red to me looks like yellow through their eyes?




Yep. Some also see a wider range of color perception :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrachromacy#Humans

All has to do w/ the sensory receptors. Some have more than others. Some are tuned different than others. Some see in black and white. Some have color blindness.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photopsin

Not everyone is the same. One should not expect them to be given the complexities that go into color sensing. Subjective experience  :laugh:


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
Re: How would you describe red to a blind man? [Re: phio]
    #23731694 - 10/12/16 04:04 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

People can perceive colours differently because the light receptors in their eyes are damaged but for those with working eyes, the colour of light is the same.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: How would you describe red to a blind man? [Re: sudly]
    #23731794 - 10/12/16 04:39 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

how can you be certain that non-color blind people all see each color the same way?


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
Re: How would you describe red to a blind man? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23731832 - 10/12/16 04:54 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

People don't see light the same way but the light itself doesn't change, only the condition of an individuals retina changes.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: How would you describe red to a blind man? [Re: sudly]
    #23732140 - 10/12/16 06:38 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

retina is part of it, much more of it in cerebral cortex as you know, and it has tremendous variability and plasticity as well as memory.


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Invisiblesudly
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Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
Re: How would you describe red to a blind man? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23732211 - 10/12/16 07:10 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

It seems we agree that perception of colour is defined by individual anatomy.

This doesn't bode well for the blind man.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: How would you describe red to a blind man? [Re: sudly]
    #23732254 - 10/12/16 07:29 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I never declared that perception is defined by anatomy, but sensation is directly connected from the senses into the brain, with anatomical locations.
how we perceive sensations (visual or otherwise) is related to what has gone before, memory and state of mind.

memory also uses anatomical locations in the brain's anatomy,
and state of mind has to do with the amount of resonance at activated locations in the brain.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
Re: How would you describe red to a blind man? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23732331 - 10/12/16 08:04 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I don't know how a mental state could effect vision and it's not something I can speculate on.

I guess someone could vividly visualise their imagination but I wouldn't call that visual in the sense of actually seeing anything real.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: How would you describe red to a blind man? [Re: sudly]
    #23732414 - 10/12/16 08:37 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
I don't know how a mental state could effect vision and it's not something I can speculate on.

I guess someone could vividly visualise their imagination but I wouldn't call that visual in the sense of actually seeing anything real.




the mental state from lsd or marijuana affects vision quite a bit, even before hallucination begins, and imagination, as mental activity also is affected, enhanced, extended. similar effects happen when emerging from sleep, when emotional, or from meditation/concentration; all of which directly affect the mental state, or overall resonance in the brain.


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Offlinedoomshroom88
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Registered: 03/21/10
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Re: How would you describe red to a blind man? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23732507 - 10/12/16 09:08 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

warm, bright. like cherries taste


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