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They
Stranger


Registered: 10/23/16
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Re: I think I have ADD/ADHD. [Re: They]
#23765843 - 10/24/16 01:47 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ok now we're getting somewhere. See here:
In the video you see that there's two types of getting another chicken's attention. First one is just a stare. If they notice it and back away, no hits needed. But if they're zoned out, don't notice (or failed to fully understand who's boss there, what kind of a stare that is, in other words they see things differently) then they have to be pecked on, hit over the head to understand WTF is going on. Dogs and wolves do this too, they don't just fight, they have those eye staring duels, that to an attentive dog will quickly tell who's boss there. Only if zoned out looking elsewhere, does hierarchy have to be clarified by physical force, and it is. Generally after that, the losing dog WILL be more attentive, to avoid further assaults.
Humans have developed this very bad idea of being overly verbal, overly polite, where they no longer solve attention problems in tactile ways, but just expend more verbal energy instead. After long analysis I have found this to be misguided and incorrect. Poking ribs, abdomen or shoulders is THE way to solve this, and as a response the other person will either straighten up, or they zone out so much that they get poked so much they get exasperated and leave. Which is MUCH better than myself getting exasperated, repeating myself and leaving all annoyed and drained of energy. It's very much in my interest to make a zoned out person leave in 2-3 pokes, than in 10-20 verbal convo lines.
There's this attentional game set up by nature, whereby if you zone out and look away, you do leave parts of your body exposed, you look away from someone as they're talking to you from a close distance. I feel that if the looking away is done enough to be annoying, it's clearly time for a rib poke. Takes balls to do this, nerds and wusses won't do it, but I will, and thus simplify things, getting to the meat of the matter. Either be here talking to me, or if you want to zone out mid-convo go find a wuss who will stand for it and just do nothing. 1-2 times I may say "Hey, over here" if I see the other is looking away, after that wham, poking time, deal with it
Back to the bird game, if everybody pays attention, nobody gets hit. Whoever zones out will quickly be brought back to the here and now, following the real time movement of the birds around, keeping the necessary distances, OR will be picked on so heavily, that they'll die or be ostracized. Either way, birds do NOT tolerate mindless zoned out behavior, they address it decisively
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RJ Tubs 202


Registered: 09/20/08
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Re: I think I have ADD/ADHD. [Re: They]
#23765853 - 10/24/16 02:03 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Many of fascinating points! I'm a biologist and also study behavior and evolution.
Here are a few of my many thoughts about your post. Some maybe only obtusely relevant.
Your comments about emotionally troubled people not being able to be assertive and say "no" reminds me of the famous book "When I Say No, I Feel Guilty"
Regarding addressing attention issues with physical stimulus, there's a "rubber band technique" for becoming aware (and reducing the frequency) of negative, anxious, depressing thoughts. Where you wear a rubber band on your wrist, and snap it when you have a negative thought. This physical exercise supplements mindfulness. Physical stimulation (slight pain) associated with the negative thoughts reduces the frequency.
So if it's that context-dependent, I'm calling BS on being a disease or malfunction.
Yes, I've shown people who say they have ADD how they actually have incredible powers to focus (love your examples). But they insist that the disease only effects "certain" activities. So the "argument" is people with ADD can focus very well on some things, but the disease renders them helpless to focus on others. That's some far fetched convoluted thinking to try to maintain the hypothesis this issue is due to biological malfunction.
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They
Stranger


Registered: 10/23/16
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Re: I think I have ADD/ADHD. [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#23765955 - 10/24/16 05:04 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
So the "argument" is people with ADD can focus very well on some things, but the disease renders them helpless to focus on others. That's some far fetched convoluted thinking to try to maintain the hypothesis this issue is due to biological malfunction.
Egg-zactly
I've skyped with this girl who was firmly convinced she had ADHD, and was also living with a guru in some Ashram (in the States) and was a meditator. At the ashram they did regular meditation sessions as a group, so if you were there you meditated with the group, every day.
This girl did EVERYTHING that OP describes, she'd actively zone out mid-sentence, play with objects with her hands while one was talking to her, have her eyes all over the place, fidget CONTINUOUSLY, or just not finish her own sentences, hop through thoughts and ideas at random, never getting to the point. Also, she was verbally repeating "I have ADHD, I have ADHD" to unconsciously reinforce this belief, that yes it's there, it's real, it's stable and she "has it."
When I pointed out, hey, can you stop messing with that box and looking everywhere and be here for a while? She said "No, I can't, I have ADHD, I can't do that, it's very hard for me to focus or sit still!"
Ok, tried my best to interact with her doing all of this.
Then I asked, hey can I see a demo of HOW you meditate? Just show me.
She said Okay.
Closed eyes, and INSTANTLY all her fidgeting and moving and restlessness turned off. I am talking INSTANTLY. She went from CONSTANT fidgeting and fucking around with everything, to back straight, breathing calmly, still, relaxed, pleasure to behold.
My jaw dropped at the immediacy of the change. I was in complete disbelief. She stayed like this for a good 2-3 minutes (I said nothing gave her time, just observed) and then the coming out of it spoke volumes to me.
SHe opened eyes and was STILL very much calm. Looking into the camera and screen. Talking slowly. Purposefully. Like Vin Diesel in that vid above, articulating words and vowels precisely, smoothly, amazing, like poetry. Arms and legs still, or making subtle calm gestures, very well composed. We spoke several sentences like this to each other, calm and smooth, no one interrupting nor zoning out.
Then a good 15-20 seconds in, she kind of "remembered" that whole oh, I have ADHD personality, and restarted to INSTANTLY do the whole fidgety attention-avoiding crap again. She even said "Oh, Back to my old self again, haha" 
Once again, jaw dropped on my end. I mean what kind of a "condition" or disease is that, if you can snap in and out of it at will like that? Obviously she had a CHOICE to define herself as a calm meditator, or as a fidgety annoying ADHD-believing dispersed attention brat. She chose the latter, but she DEMONSTRABLY could do both roles just fine, she did the calm meditator several hours a day each day, just chose to represent that to herself as "just something that she does" not "herself".
I mean there is SOMETHING there, I admit there's pressures and emotional issues needing attention, am not disputing that, but to slap on an ADHD label, medicate with some crap like speed and ignore the deeper underlying issues, that is what I am saying is bullshit. The label applied by "modern" medicine to the processes observed inside these people. The processes are real, the label and attempted solutions are absolutely medieval.
Kind of like saying "I have Parkinson's and can't stop my arms from shaking UNLESS I am playing pool or shooting my sniper rifle, in which case I am the best sniper in the state, I can shoot super awesome, no shakes at all " Real conditions aren't that context-dependent, or at the very least if they are (and ADHD seems to be) then that very flexibility is key to getting over it.
I know about the rubber band technique, am sure it works, though when others do this for us, it's likely even more effective as they notice in real time as we're zoned out, whereas we ourselves can only notice and rubber band ourselves once we snap out of it
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: I think I have ADD/ADHD. [Re: They] 1
#23765973 - 10/24/16 05:34 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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oh why don't you guys write a fucking book then. Zen and the Art of Knowing Everyone's Proper Auspices For Living, and Can End Nazism.
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