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InvisibleBigfeely123
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Re: Should driving while stoned be punished a severely as drunk driving? [Re: BANANA.MAN]
    #23713795 - 10/06/16 04:53 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

What if someone who doesn't smoke often gets behind the wheel stoned? In that case I think it can be just as impairing as alcohol. I know for me after long breaks the first time smoking almost feels mushrooms or lsd. Not necessarily the visual aspects but the mental part and I've been smoking for nearly 10 years.


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InvisibleCelestial Traveler
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Re: Should driving while stoned be punished a severely as drunk driving? [Re: SleepyE]
    #23713797 - 10/06/16 04:54 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

The thing I don't like about DUID laws for any drug is that they are based on arbitrary numbers.  Sometimes people test right at the limit (.08 for example) and then they're at the mercy of the officer they encountered for favorable treatment and selective enforcement.


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Should driving while stoned be punished a severely as drunk driving? [Re: AllGreyThumbs]
    #23713798 - 10/06/16 04:55 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Yes its quite clear this system isnt set up to be objective and fair, its set up to make the most profit possible


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: Should driving while stoned be punished a severely as drunk driving? [Re: Bigfeely123]
    #23713841 - 10/06/16 05:13 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Bigfeely123 said:
What if someone who doesn't smoke often gets behind the wheel stoned? In that case I think it can be just as impairing as alcohol. I know for me after long breaks the first time smoking almost feels mushrooms or lsd. Not necessarily the visual aspects but the mental part and I've been smoking for nearly 10 years.




Unless you turn into a blubbering mess that cant even handle getting off the couch thats doubtful. I've done the same after 3 years without smoking. It doesnt impair reaction times and motor control, and thats what gets people killed when drunks hope behind the wheel


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: Should driving while stoned be punished a severely as drunk driving? [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #23713893 - 10/06/16 05:38 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

But it does impair reaction times. Especially in people like me who already have coordination/processing issues. I mean if I'm doing what I've done a million times before I'm fine but if a deer jumped in front of my car I can't say I'd react in time to swerve away from it, or if I'd have the same presence of mind to know there's a car in the other lane I'd swerve into.


Different drugs effect people differently. It's not just alcoholics that can drink 8 beers and be fine on the road. But plenty of other people would have impaired judgement and reaction times enough to get into trouble. There's a reason the blood alcohol limit is so low, it's not about being wasted and blacking out and hitting someone, there are all kinds of random variables on the road that make any level of impairment dangerous.

But on that note I wish people would stop fucking with their phones while they're driving. Especially these smartphones. Old school cell phones you could dial and even text without ever taking your eyes off the road. You have to look at a smartphone to use it. I imagine I've seen many many more people do dangerous shit fucking with a phone or something else than on any drug or alcohol.



And I think people should get driving tests every decade or something. All these little variables that pop up and people don't know how to behave.
State law: if you're using your wipers your lights have to be on. If there's road workers or EMT on the shoulder move over to the next lane. But I see people all the time like HURRRRR DURRRRR and speed by a cop on the shoulder without their lights on in the pouring rain while texting someone (which is also illegal here). By no means is a stoner the person I worry about most on the road. It's idiots.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Should driving while stoned be punished a severely as drunk driving? [Re: Bodhi of Ankou] * 2
    #23713897 - 10/06/16 05:40 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Pot is not as bad as alcohol, but it does change your response time and makes it harder to track multiple hazards.

I will say this, pot users demanding that they be allowed to drive while high is going to be the biggest hurdle to legalization in the future. If you want legal pot, you're just going to have to accept that you won't be allowed to drive on it. Because there is no way to reliably test someone's level of impairment, the law is going to have to be very broad. you're just not going to be allowed to drive if you've used pot in the past 6 hours of so.

It's going to take years to get the dataset required to scientifically examine the impact of marijuana legalization on traffic safety. Until that time, pot users are going to have to accept that in return for legal use, society is going to want an abundance of caution when it comes to public safety.


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NotSheekle said
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Edited by koods (10/06/16 05:46 PM)


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: Should driving while stoned be punished a severely as drunk driving? [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #23713908 - 10/06/16 05:43 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

But it's really really hard to make laws that say:
Don't be an idiot on the road.
Know if marijuana may impair you, don't drive.
If you have a low alcohol tolerance, don't drink.
Don't text if you don't have a phone with buttons that you can use blindly.
If you're too tired to think clearly, don't drive.


That's why we have laws banning these things. Because a lot of people think whatever they're doing is fine. I can't tell you how many times I've taken issue with someone doing any of these things while driving. And they think they're full aware and prepared to handle the road when I can tell they obviously are not. The situation on the road can change in seconds.


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: Should driving while stoned be punished a severely as drunk driving? [Re: koods]
    #23713922 - 10/06/16 05:47 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Pot is not as bad as alcohol, but it does change your response time and makes it harder to track multiple hazards.

I will say this, pot users demanding that they be allowed to drive while high is going to be the biggest hurdle to legalization in the future. If you want legal pot, you're just going to have to accept that you won't be allowed to drive on it. Because there is no way to reliably test someone's level of impairment, the law is going to have to be very broad. you're just not going to be allowed to drive if you've used pot in the past 6 hours of so.




I know how bad the government is for spoofing studies when it comes to cannabis. Wheres the source for this? Theres been a few studies I've come across where the effect of pot was negligible.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Registered: 11/30/11
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Re: Should driving while stoned be punished a severely as drunk driving? [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #23713926 - 10/06/16 05:49 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

CookieCrumbs said:
But on that note I wish people would stop fucking with their phones while they're driving. Especially these smartphones. Old school cell phones you could dial and even text without ever taking your eyes off the road. You have to look at a smartphone to use it. I imagine I've seen many many more people do dangerous shit fucking with a phone or something else than on any drug or alcohol.



They've just upped the penalty here for this, it's become that much of a problem. As a biker (and so passing many more cars when filtering than a driver does) I can vouch for just how many people are doing it, and how dangerous it is.

Fuck, even pedestrians are crashing into things/each other cause of smartphones. Fucking tragic.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Should driving while stoned be punished a severely as drunk driving? [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #23713932 - 10/06/16 05:50 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

You can't makes laws to address everyone's idiosyncratic response to drugs. Laws are written based on statistical averages and legal limits can't have wiggle room. Everyone plays by the same rules.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: Should driving while stoned be punished a severely as drunk driving? [Re: koods]
    #23713943 - 10/06/16 05:54 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I know. For once I did not intend any sarcasm.


I think people should know themselves and be able to be responsible for themselves. But the sad simple truth is that they aren't.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Should driving while stoned be punished a severely as drunk driving? [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #23713944 - 10/06/16 05:54 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
Quote:

koods said:
Pot is not as bad as alcohol, but it does change your response time and makes it harder to track multiple hazards.

I will say this, pot users demanding that they be allowed to drive while high is going to be the biggest hurdle to legalization in the future. If you want legal pot, you're just going to have to accept that you won't be allowed to drive on it. Because there is no way to reliably test someone's level of impairment, the law is going to have to be very broad. you're just not going to be allowed to drive if you've used pot in the past 6 hours of so.




I know how bad the government is for spoofing studies when it comes to cannabis. Wheres the source for this? Theres been a few studies I've come across where the effect of pot was negligible.




There just isn't very much data. There aren't very many studies because it is very hard to do research with schedule 1 substances. I think we will have to wait to see how pot legalization affects driving statistics.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: Should driving while stoned be punished a severely as drunk driving? [Re: koods]
    #23713958 - 10/06/16 06:00 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Theres plenty of data out there already. This has been more or less been throughly studied and the results were inconclusive in nearly every research bid they attempted. In response to the slight impairment cannabis gives inexperienced users they react by driving more cautiously and attentively. Its literally harmless. Besides, the idea that I could get a DUI for smoking weed the night before, or even hours before I actually drive seems like more senseless witch hunting and just bad policy.

I award the opposing viewpoint no points and will continue to rip fat bowls and roll joints as I drive, regardless of consequence.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Should driving while stoned be punished a severely as drunk driving? [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #23713970 - 10/06/16 06:06 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I'm just saying when the average person is thinking about legalization, their first concern is often how that is going to affect safety on the roads. If they hear users saying theyre going to be doing bong rips on the highway, they aren't going to support legalization.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: Should driving while stoned be punished a severely as drunk driving? [Re: koods]
    #23713976 - 10/06/16 06:07 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Ah, duly noted. Given the context this is really the only place I'd voice this. In a more normalized public setting I'd definitely be focusing on the injustice in the tests inaccuracy.


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: Should driving while stoned be punished a severely as drunk driving? [Re: koods]
    #23713981 - 10/06/16 06:08 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Pot is not as bad as alcohol, but it does change your response time and makes it harder to track multiple hazards.

I will say this, pot users demanding that they be allowed to drive while high is going to be the biggest hurdle to legalization in the future. If you want legal pot, you're just going to have to accept that you won't be allowed to drive on it. Because there is no way to reliably test someone's level of impairment, the law is going to have to be very broad. you're just not going to be allowed to drive if you've used pot in the past 6 hours of so.

It's going to take years to get the dataset required to scientifically examine the impact of marijuana legalization on traffic safety. Until that time, pot users are going to have to accept that in return for legal use, society is going to want an abundance of caution when it comes to public safety.




:rolleyes: you could say the same with any number of prescription and non-prescription drugs that people legally drive on.  I'm not saying everyone should be allowed to drive stoned.  Some people shouldn't be allowed to drive period.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Should driving while stoned be punished a severely as drunk driving? [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #23714002 - 10/06/16 06:18 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

It is undeniable that fatal car crashes have increased in both Washington and Colorado since legalization. The reasons need to be investigated.

http://publicaffairsresources.aaa.biz/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Prevalence-of-Marijuana-Involvement-Report-FINAL.pdf


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisiblezZZz
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Re: Should driving while stoned be punished a severely as drunk driving? [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #23714020 - 10/06/16 06:25 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

In the end it's going to come down to legality, peeps are gonna crack down on whom ever they feel like cracking down on, it's not to say that there will be a witch hunt, but in the case u ever decide to call urself a witch, or u crash ur broom stick on the side of the road or something, or if decide to go after witch hunters, then u will be hunted down.. Case closed..


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InvisiblePatrickKn
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Re: Should driving while stoned be punished a severely as drunk driving? [Re: koods] * 2
    #23714023 - 10/06/16 06:27 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

When self driving cars become the norm, society as we know it will completely collapse from alcoholism. :philososloth:


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: Should driving while stoned be punished a severely as drunk driving? [Re: koods] * 1
    #23714026 - 10/06/16 06:27 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

That could easily by tied to a general increase in use and the long half life of these metabolites. Which is why its hard to point the finger at marijuana in any of these crashes. they would still test positive if they were stone cold sober at the time of the accident. The test is a useless life ruining invention on the same level as those drug reagent test kits. I dont know if you noticed but they kind of left out any change in frequency of fatal car crashes, if there was any significant change, which I doubt it, that would be more of an indicator of its impact on drivers then "well it looks like he got high in the last 48 hours".



Edited by Bodhi of Ankou (10/06/16 06:34 PM)


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