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AlCapone2k
Beginner


Registered: 10/06/16
Posts: 842
Loc: Germany
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination?
#23712429 - 10/06/16 08:35 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hey guys,
is this a contamination in my box? It's the second flush, the first one was great and I harvested about 120grams of mushrooms.
After rehydrating the case with water and putting it back to the filter bag the surface of the box show this white fuzz. There is no strange smelling on the box, it smells a bit like old water in the filter bag but the case itself has no strange smell.



-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
Edited by AlCapone2k (10/06/16 08:42 AM)
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tump
ban the undead



Registered: 03/17/16
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23712441 - 10/06/16 08:41 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Doesn't look good
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AlCapone2k
Beginner


Registered: 10/06/16
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Loc: Germany
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: tump]
#23712447 - 10/06/16 08:43 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Really? In other forums it has been said, that it's absolutely normal, that the mycell makes this white stuff after rehydrating.
This white stuff is exactly there, where there has been some rests of the mushrooms I harvested. Could it be, that the mycelium "eats" the rest of these mushrooms?
-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
Edited by AlCapone2k (10/06/16 08:45 AM)
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: tump] 1
#23712451 - 10/06/16 08:45 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
tump said: Doesn't look good
Yeah it looks stressed eh?
It's not exactly contaminated yet, but it isn't healthy. My guess would be bacteria. Bacteria always hits and weakens the network before molds can germinate.
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AlCapone2k
Beginner


Registered: 10/06/16
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: Mad Season]
#23712456 - 10/06/16 08:47 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Do you mean by stressed/weakened spots this white fuzz? Or the places on the layer where there isn't any white mycelium?
There is no strange smell, the whole case smells a bit like mushrooms, shouldn't bacteria produce a strange smell?
-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23712469 - 10/06/16 08:51 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Pseudomonas aeruginosa smells like flowers/grapes Streptococcus milleri smells of browned butter.
There's many bacteria with good smells, and some with no smells
But what makes it look bacterial is the myceliums reaction to the environment. It's puffy and thick like cottage cheese. This is a reaction to bacteria.
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AlCapone2k
Beginner


Registered: 10/06/16
Posts: 842
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Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23712474 - 10/06/16 08:54 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thank you very much for your answer. Do you think the mycelium will be able to defeat the bacteria?
And if not: How will it develop in the future? What is the next step, that let's me know, that it's contaminated?
-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23712489 - 10/06/16 08:59 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Never have I seen mycelium defeat bacteria. This is just the order of things. Bacteria opens cubensis up for trich to come in, and fully decompose it back to the soil.
It's just a matter of time til it molds. That being said, you can probably see another flush or 2 before it molds. But I'm just warning you to keep an eye on it for molds to appear.
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AlCapone2k
Beginner


Registered: 10/06/16
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23712499 - 10/06/16 09:02 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ok, thank you very much. I will keep an eye on it, look for strange smells and so on. If the color changes, I will post a picutre here.
Is it possible, if it's not molding, that I can make a spore print of one of the comming mushrooms? Or will it be hopeless, because of the bacteria?
Thank you.
-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23712501 - 10/06/16 09:03 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Definitely possible.
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AlCapone2k
Beginner


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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23712511 - 10/06/16 09:06 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ok, since you are an advanced member here I am using the chance to ask you a question, that wonders me after reading a lot on spore prints.
While making the print, one works very sterile. And then I take a mushroom which is definetely not sterile, remove the cap and put it on the sterile aluminium foil. At least then it's not sterile anymore?
Or is the fruit body of the mushroom always sterile when it's grown?
Would you recommend to make a spore syringe out of the spore print after drying?
Regards
-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
Edited by AlCapone2k (10/06/16 09:08 AM)
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23712516 - 10/06/16 09:09 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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No mushroom cap grown in open air will be sterile. Thus no print will ever be sterile. Including vendor syringes/prints.
Do try to be as sterile as you can be when printing. Do it in a still air box. If you're worried about the cleanliness of it and contaminations for the future, get into agar. With agar you can cut out clean mycelium from contaminations. With agar all you need is a cotton swab or loop. No syringes needed.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18430998/fpart/1/vc/1
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AlCapone2k
Beginner


Registered: 10/06/16
Posts: 842
Loc: Germany
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23712529 - 10/06/16 09:14 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thank you very much for the tip on agar. Yesterday I was in a pharmacy here and asked for agar plates and so on, so I am willing to start on Agar.
I red a lot about it but some are writing, that making spore syringes is much more easier than working with agars as a total noob like I am.
But I will try. The next days I will build a glove box. I have read some tutorial, do you have a tip for a good tutorial?
And two questions:
1. After having agar plates, I just put the spores on it from a spore print? Or do you recommend cloning?
2. Whih desinfection spray do you recommend? I have one from a drug store here but it's written on, that it kills mushrooms, so I think its not good for growing mushrooms. Is 70% Isopropanol enough?
-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23712541 - 10/06/16 09:21 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I have no disinfecting spray. I use soap and water to spray down the sides of my SAB. Haven't used alcohol for a long ass time too.
Agar is so easy. Easier than the pf tek. It most certainly should be for noobs. Hell if intro level bio students can work with petri dishes, so can you .
Yes put spores on the surface of the agar. You can use a cotton swab if you want. I'd only put 1st flush clones on agar. You're too late for cloning.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22556356
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Moabfighter
Tam Fighter


Registered: 12/13/15
Posts: 2,710
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: Mad Season]
#23712549 - 10/06/16 09:25 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Mines doing same thing. Looks like green mold coming in middle of left tray. Watch for mold. It's coming. Glad I got one flush though.
-------------------- KSSS And PE WBS.
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AlCapone2k
Beginner


Registered: 10/06/16
Posts: 842
Loc: Germany
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23712553 - 10/06/16 09:26 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thank you very much for your answers, you helped me a lot.
So I can forget cloning now, no problem, next time I clone directly.
Maybe I will still earn a flush from this growbox before it's totally contaminated.
Then I will make a sporeprint and then put it on agar.
Do I have to wait until the spores are dry to put them on agar or can I directly brush them from the spore print after it has been set on the foil?
For syringes one has to wait until the spores dehydrate, If I understand it correctly, that is not possible on agair so I have to take fresh spores, right?
-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23712565 - 10/06/16 09:29 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Always let prints dry out before doing anything. It kills a lot of the bacteria present.
You print in a SAB. Print for 24 hours, then carefully remove the caps, and leave the prints open in your SAB for another 24 hours to dry out
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AlCapone2k
Beginner


Registered: 10/06/16
Posts: 842
Loc: Germany
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23712590 - 10/06/16 09:38 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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And then I put the dried spores without any water on the sterile agar plate?
(I will directly read some tutorials to that topic).
Does your SAB has gloves implemented or just two holes to get your hands/arms inside?
-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23712597 - 10/06/16 09:40 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Just two holes. Like this:
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Mushierage
SWIM Sinker



Registered: 06/29/16
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: Mad Season]
#23712621 - 10/06/16 09:46 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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The purpose of the SAB is to just create an environment without draft or moving air. Adding gloves is just going to cause positive pressure inside and that air will stir up as it finds the smallest hole in your box to exit. That's why you use 6 inch holes and not "sealed ones".
Just set up your SAB and let the air be still in the entire room you are using it in for about an hour. No fans, no Ac, no open windows. It'll work great.
As far as spores, you can drag a sterile swap or inoculation loop on a print very briefly and then drag it across your agar plate. If you're trying to isolate from just bacteria, just drag a "z" like shape and wait a few days. Take the first sign of healthy Myc you can find and transfer it, making sure not to transfer bacteria with it. Don't wait til your plate grows all the way out, unless you have already transferred and made your culture clean. The smaller the culture has grown out, the less chance you'll be transferring bacteria with your culture.
-------------------- Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup. OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.
  
Edited by Mushierage (10/06/16 12:14 PM)
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AlCapone2k
Beginner


Registered: 10/06/16
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Loc: Germany
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: Mushierage]
#23713011 - 10/06/16 12:13 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thank you very much for your answers.
I have heared that one of the biggest problems of agar cultivation is the production of the agar plates.
Is it possible to just buy ready-to-use agar plates like these ones and use them:
https://www.medplus24.de/nutriplate-fertignaehrboeden-pilz-agar-nkimmig.html?gclid=CKrJ78rjxs8CFRPgGwodygEPAg
These are Agar Plates (Kimmig Style) specially made for mushroom cultivation. 20 cost only 15 Euros, that is very cheap and saves a lot of time. Do I have to sterilize them in a steam pressure cooker before using?
-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23713026 - 10/06/16 12:18 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Don't buy pre made plates. Give up on agar if you're too afraid to make your own. It's the damn near easiest thing you'll do. Pour agar into dish. Boom done easy.
You cannot sterilize petri dishes they melt. They come sterilized by gamma irradiation
Last link in signature has all the agar teks that dont suck in one place
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AlCapone2k
Beginner


Registered: 10/06/16
Posts: 842
Loc: Germany
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: bodhisatta]
#23713474 - 10/06/16 03:02 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hey,
I am not afraid, I just read in a discussion on a German forum, that it's not smart to start with agar, because it's more for advanced users. But I will give it a try!
I will read the agar teks in your sig!!
-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
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AlCapone2k
Beginner


Registered: 10/06/16
Posts: 842
Loc: Germany
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23721522 - 10/09/16 09:14 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hey guys,
my second flush is now quite ok, there are just 4 Mushroom that came in the second flush, two are very big and two are quite small. I think I messed sth up while harvesting the first flush so my cake is stressed or so - therefor this flush is very "poor". But no problem, I just want some mushrooms to make a spore print anyway
I read a lot of teks and I think this one is the best: https://www.shroomery.org/8404/Spore-printing-pictorial
But in this tek it says:
"Position the glass carefully: make sure it does not completely seal the spore-dropping zone, so humidity can escape from a gap at the edge of the rim. either this, or make sure the foil is entirely enclosed within the glass: in at least one spot, the glass needs to rest on the teatowel, rather than creating an airtight seal (see on the right, in the pic above). The cap needs to be able to lose humidity slowly. As the cap dries, it sheds spores easier, like in nature."
This wonders me a bit since most of the other teks recommend to put the spore-throwing cap in a sealed environment for the print. And afterwards to lift the glass/container a bit to let the print dry.
What do you think, especially @Mad Season and @bodhisatta
-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23721570 - 10/09/16 09:39 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Don't read any methods or teks off the main site it's all old shit. Look up let's grow mushrooms spore printing
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AlCapone2k
Beginner


Registered: 10/06/16
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: bodhisatta]
#23721629 - 10/09/16 10:07 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: Don't read any methods or teks off the main site it's all old shit. Look up let's grow mushrooms spore printing
Quote:
bodhisatta said: Don't read any methods or teks off the main site it's all old shit. Look up let's grow mushrooms spore printing
You mean that site: http://www.mushroomvideos.com/Sporeprinting-Syringes?
I watched the video there and he closes the holes of his SAB after putting on the caps so that no humidity can get out.
So I planned to do so:
1. Put some aluminium foil in a jar and make an aluminium lid on the jar and put it in the oven on 200° for an hour or a bit more. Then I take out the jar, let it cool down a bit and bring it into my SAB.
2. I take some kitchen paper or something and put it in the SAB, and spray a bit of desinfection spray into the box and close the box lid. Then I take out one foil of the jar and put it on the kitchen paper, get my mushroom from the growkit, cut of the stem with a new sterile scalpel and put it with a pin sticked into it on the alu foil.
3. I cover the whole stuff with a small glass I sanitized with 70% ISP and take care to seal it. Wait 24 hours at least until the spore print is made.
4. Take of the glass, take the cap away and let it dry.
Now .. shall I dry it with a glass on the foil or leave the glass, just the uncovered foil in the SAB (with armholes closed)?
I am a bit confused now.
But this tutorial to my SAB I can follow, right?
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20048771#20048771
-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23721652 - 10/09/16 10:15 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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No I mean this stuff https://www.shroomery.org/8404/Spore-printing-pictorial Things that got put on the main site a decade ago. Good info is on the forums.
Mushroom videos.com is one of the places we say please go there look at that stuff instead.
And that SAB tek is one of the standards
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AlCapone2k
Beginner


Registered: 10/06/16
Posts: 842
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23721675 - 10/09/16 10:25 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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So you mean because the printing pictorial I linked is from 2003 I should watch for the good stuff in the forum. Ok, thanks
Do you have a pictured tutorial which is new and helpful for a spore print made in a SAB?
Mushroomvideos.com is not very detailed unfortunately.
-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23721689 - 10/09/16 10:29 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Mushroom videos.com spore printing is the standard. That one may be old but at least it's right.
Its not super detailed because all you're doing is putting a cap on a piece of foil
Just do it in the SAB like he does Infront of the flow hood
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AlCapone2k
Beginner


Registered: 10/06/16
Posts: 842
Loc: Germany
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23721999 - 10/09/16 12:20 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ok, since I only have these few mushrooms to make a print, I am a bit afraid of ruin it, sorry for asking so much questions.
If I can't get agar agar until tomorrow I am forced to make a spore syringe and I am afraid of making a contaminated spore print.
Have I understood you correctly, that wiping out alumunium foil with ISP is useless, better to sterlize it in the oven with 200°C for one hour and then directly sporeprinting on it?
You don't put any glass oder something on the foil+cap while the spores are falling down?
-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23722013 - 10/09/16 12:24 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Foil is sterile off the roll. Wiping something sterile with alcohol is like smearing shit on yourself after taking a shower as one famous mycologist put it.
Take a few inches off the roll save itnfor something else. Then the next piece you take you print on. Did you watch the video?
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AlCapone2k
Beginner


Registered: 10/06/16
Posts: 842
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23722110 - 10/09/16 12:49 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yes, I did. The part where it's about "indoor prints". I think I will do it like in the video, because its easier than making the print under a cup and have to take care when it dries.
Ok tomorrow I will get new aluminium foil, because my foil for cooking and so on is quite old and sure not sterile anymore New foil should be totally sterile then
-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23722114 - 10/09/16 12:49 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Contamination can't wiggle its way through the coil. Remove a foot or so its fine. The box its put in and the shelf its on at the store makes getting a new box a moot point anyway
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AlCapone2k
Beginner


Registered: 10/06/16
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23722131 - 10/09/16 12:55 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Good argument. Now I just hope that aluminium foil is not only sterile in the US and in Germany it's not
But I think you are right, if I remove a big part of the aluminium foil and take some foil from the interior of the roll it should be ok.
Do you cover your caps on foil with small glasses or something or do you exactly do it like in the video?
Regards.
-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23722150 - 10/09/16 01:02 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I put foil down in the SAB then the caps then a Tupperware wiped down with isopropyl or pour boiling water into it as the lid.
Foil is sterile due to its manufacturing process. Surely your foil is made in the same few countries anyone's is.

You can do it outside the SAB too but the foil that's outside the boundaries of the "lid" device shouldn't be folded up on the sterile material
Sometimes I take the caps and move them to a new foil after a good print is obtained on the first foil. The second one I assume to be a little more clean as any contamination probably got on the first print. I keep the first ones to myself and trade the ones done on the second foil in the SAB to be more clean about it all. The first ones never give me a problem anyway. Prints are pretty clean because they're 99.9999999% spores even if a few contaminants get on there they're flooded out by numbers if used appropriately(like don't inoculate a LC with spores)
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AlCapone2k
Beginner


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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: bodhisatta]
#23722163 - 10/09/16 01:04 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ok fine, I'll make it this way.
And after 24 hours, you remove the cap. Ok. But do you put the Tupperware-Lid back on the print or do you lift it on one side for air circulation or do you just put the tupperware lid away and let them dry in the sab unconvered?
-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23722181 - 10/09/16 01:07 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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You'll be fine
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AlCapone2k
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23722196 - 10/09/16 01:11 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah, thanks, I think so. I once worked during an internship in a laboratory so I am not totally nooby in sterile work, but I forgot a lot.
I would not get on your nerves with so many questions, but as I said, I only have 3 mushrooms for spore printing, if I fail, I have to get some sporeprints or a syringe from somewhere else, which is quit difficult in germany So I don't want to mess up.
I will let the prints dry in the SAB with the tupperware box upon them, but lift it a bit with some piece of sterile paper for drying (air circulation)
-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
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bodhisatta 
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23722220 - 10/09/16 01:18 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Even a shit done print will be fine on agar.
Time to go to on a shifffhart Or to the Reeperbahn on an ICE train.
 Forget about mushrooms for a few hours
I thought you were using these print right away. Why dry them. Why do fancy extra stuff to dry them
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AlCapone2k
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23722246 - 10/09/16 01:26 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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haha, fine that you know the Reeperbahn, I'd go there, but it's far away from me right now But next time I'm there, I will remember your tipps
And yes, If I get agar agar tomorrow (will visit some asia stores) I won't dry it
Or maybe I make a liquid culture if I can't get agar agar, then I can direcy put some undried spores in the jar with my LC. We'll see
Regards!
-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
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bodhisatta 
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23722254 - 10/09/16 01:28 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I would be surprised if REWE or someone couldn't get it for you.
Quote:
Prints are pretty clean because they're 99.9999999% spores even if a few contaminants get on there they're flooded out by numbers if used appropriately(like don't inoculate a LC with spores)
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AlCapone2k
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: bodhisatta]
#23722268 - 10/09/16 01:34 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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haha, so you seem to know Germany well I was in REWE yesterday, they didn't even know what I'm talking about. I asked in an "organic store", there they call it "vegane gelatine" But they don't have it here. Tomorrow my last chance are some Asia markets, maybe I can get some.
Funny, I wasn't even able to get petri dishes since the pharmacies around here don't sell them. Very strange. But theres one left I will visit tomorrow.
What is meant by the last sentence:
"if used appropriately(like don't inoculate a LC with spores)"
Does that mean it is not appropiate to inoculate a LC with spores? Why not?
-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
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bodhisatta 
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23722295 - 10/09/16 01:41 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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LC is a 3D media, any single contaminant that gets in grows through the whole thing and ruins it. spore prints are never 100% clean due to the way they're obtained and made. though a spore print may be 99.9999% spores and 00.0001% contaminants it will be just fine if you start it on agar as the contaminant likely wont even survive being overcome with mycelium or it does grow and you can just take healthy mycelium to a new dish and leave the contaminant behind,
same goes for PF cake, you can squirt a spore syringe in there, and say a contaminant or two gets in, it probably will not be able to take over at all in most cases. but a single contaminant will wreck a whole LC and you will not necessarily be able to tell at all until it ruins one of your grows.
you would probably find petri dishes where hospitals breweries(quality control and assurance) and farms(dairy and milk quality assurance and control)
there's probably some scientific supplier you can order from.
I would be surprised if apotheke had petri dishes
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bodhisatta 
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: bodhisatta]
#23722325 - 10/09/16 01:48 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Wir Weichsel Weiber wollen wissen wo warmes Wasser wär womit wir waschen wollen.
Wir Wiener Waschweiber würden weiße Wäsche waschen, wenn wir wüßten wo warmes Wasser wär.

god damnit germnans
dont go over the geschwindigkeitsbegrenzung when driving around either
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AlCapone2k
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23722343 - 10/09/16 01:55 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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haha your German is amazing
Are you from the US?
Ok mate, I'll try to get petri dishes and agar agar tomorrow and then will inoculate agar on a petri dish. If I can't get it here, I must buy it online, also no problem.
But I have to be fast because I think tomorrow evening my mushrooms will open the cap. If I can't get agar agar to make my own agar dishes, maybe I'll buy one which is already made, I found a shop selling those with guarantee to be delivered one day after order. It's agar plate sterilized and everything's ready for inoculation. Maybe this can help me until I reveice agar agar to get my own
In school we worked with agar recipe made by Kimmig oder Kimming, I still have an explanation sheet how to make it here, can I use this for mycelium?
-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
Edited by AlCapone2k (10/09/16 01:57 PM)
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bodhisatta 
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23722360 - 10/09/16 02:00 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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never heard of it, get brewing malt, soak it in 150F water for 20-30m strain it out. water it down till its pretty light or if you have a hydrometer get it to like 1 to 2 plato.
or buy dried malt extract powder from a brewing store. use 2% by weight powder and 2% by weight agar-agar and well we know plain water is 1ml=1g for these purposes so like 20g of each to 1L water.
I've been to germany for a few weeks couchsurfing once.
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23722370 - 10/09/16 02:03 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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i dont know shopping details of germania but here in Merica hitting up a asian supermarket in the dessert aisle of all places you will find years worth of agar agar for only a few dollars. or euros whatever
Edited by mushboy (10/09/16 02:09 PM)
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AlCapone2k
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23722377 - 10/09/16 02:06 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Kimmig-Agar:
Peptone, Natriumchlorid, Glucose, Agar-Agar 15,0
Its specially made for mushrooms.
But I will use your recipe cause it's easy to get malt extract , easier than Peptone
For the fact that you only been here for some weeks, your german is quite good Nice!
-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23722387 - 10/09/16 02:12 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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YPD is good for mushrooms too, malt extract agar( MEA) is mostly what I use
YPD would be better than the kimmig, Yeast(hefe) peptone dextrose. the yeast is dead yeast for nutrition, sometimes called nutritional yeast.
the media you listed includes Natriumchlorid or salt which is something no mushrooms want in their media.
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AlCapone2k
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: bodhisatta]
#23722440 - 10/09/16 02:26 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ok, then I forget Kimmig. Just read it on the instruction sheet as to be good for mushrooms
I'll make it walt extract.
I still have a question to spore syringes:
When I have a spore print, do I have to dry it before getting it into the spore syringe? Or can I put fresh prints into spore syringe?
-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23722478 - 10/09/16 02:39 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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You can make a syringe right away
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AlCapone2k
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23722493 - 10/09/16 02:43 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
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bodhisatta 
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23722510 - 10/09/16 02:50 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Should be just fine
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acidninja
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: bodhisatta]
#23722621 - 10/09/16 03:24 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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its either white mold or its just stressed, mold pretty common in pf tek, but i wouldn't count on it, just leave it be and see what happens
--------------------
- DMT - Liberty Cap Gallery
Edited by acidninja (10/09/16 03:24 PM)
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AlCapone2k
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: acidninja]
#23723056 - 10/09/16 06:06 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
TheAcidJunky said: its either white mold or its just stressed, mold pretty common in pf tek, but i wouldn't count on it, just leave it be and see what happens
Until now there are 4 mushrooms, two very big and zweo quite small. So I think this Flush is not that powerful like the first one, I will try a third flush but I'm not expecting much.
With a growkit, is it possible after letting it rest for 24 hours with water to initate the third flush to remove the case and put the whole cake upside down in a fruit chamber? Could this lead to a better third flush?
-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
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AlCapone2k
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: bodhisatta]
#23723086 - 10/09/16 06:15 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: Should be just fine
I have two questions to your pour agar tek:
1. You say "sterilize your agar for 15-20m at 15PSI. [..] once your PC is back at atmospheric pressure. open it up take your jars out. (tighten the lids down)"
Does that mean that I dont close the bottle of the agar solution when putting it into PC? Just put the lid on but do not tighten it?
and
2. "pour your plates. use your wrist, don't let your hand ever go above anything sterile."
You really mean to open the petri dishes and to pour the agar from the bottle into them and then close them again without my hands, just with my wrists?
and
3. After pouring agar on and putting the lid back on the petri dish, can I just wrap it in saran wrap and it will stay sterile? Or do you prefer parafilm?
Sorry for the lot of questions but sometimes I don't unterstand parts of the teks you describe so better I ask than making mistakes which frustrates me for sure :P
-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
Edited by AlCapone2k (10/09/16 06:20 PM)
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AlCapone2k
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: bodhisatta]
#23724857 - 10/10/16 11:10 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Sorry, wrong post!
Regards
-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
Edited by AlCapone2k (10/10/16 11:31 AM)
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bodhisatta 
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23727158 - 10/10/16 11:57 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Usually when you're sterilizing liquids in bottles in an autoclave(lovely English)
The bottles have caps, but most bottle caps do not have special gas exchange lids. Like PF cakes, or grain spawn jars. Those have holes in the lids and some sort of filter. If you autoclave something with no filter the lids are loose during the cycle then tighten it down afterwards. This is typical laboratory procedure. There's many ways to slice a cake though. If you don't have a way to exhaust your jars as they heat up the gasses dissolved in solution become less soluble and there is already air in the headspace so the pressure in the jar reaches higher pressure than even the atmosphere in the pressure cooker and you can pop jars. Big mess if it happens.
You understand our English really well or only kind of? I can try messaging you in some German too if English isn't so good. But your English is way way better than my German.
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AlCapone2k
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: bodhisatta]
#23727745 - 10/11/16 09:13 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thank you very much, now I understand.
I have everything now but one thing is missing:Light Malt Extract. I was in 10 shops and can't find it.
I have to order it online.
Is this the right stuff:
http://m.ebay.de/itm/Muntons-Malzextrakt-Hell-aus-Gerstenmalz-500-g-Bier-selber-brauen-/261778251589?nav=SEARCH
It's Muntons Spraymalt light, usually used for brewing.
-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
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bodhisatta 
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23727785 - 10/11/16 09:32 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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That is the stuff.
You can use amber malt extract too or even rye malt extract
Light is just the most clear. But most people end up using food coloring to make if darker anyway. There's less simple sugars in amber extract the mycelium does just fine on it.
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AlCapone2k
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: bodhisatta]
#23727862 - 10/11/16 10:10 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Perfect, I ordered it. When it arrives, I have everything. My mushroom cap is on Aluminium foil right now so I will have a sporeprint.
When the LME arrives, I'll make the agar and will start
I didn't fide an inoculation loop but bought a inoculation needle, I think it's the same.
Before I start in jars, I want so ask you: Do you use self-heeling silicon on your lids?
-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
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AlCapone2k
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23728708 - 10/11/16 04:05 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
AlCapone2k said: Before I start in jars, I want so ask you: Do you use self-heeling silicon on your lids?
Ok, I think this question was stupid, since I have to lift the lid anyway to put in some agar slice
But I ask myself: Is it possible to PF-Tek with Agar? PF-Jars have a vermiculite layer on the top as a contamn barrier. When I throw a slice of mycelium agar on it, it won't colonize it, right? So I should start with Grain Cakes, right?
-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
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bodhisatta 
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23728729 - 10/11/16 04:13 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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To use agar on a cake skip the dry verm barrier and use a grain jar lid. Remove lid put agar wedge in. Obviously this must be done in a still air box or with a flow hood
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AlCapone2k
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: bodhisatta]
#23728768 - 10/11/16 04:28 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yes, of course. I realized my question was stupid when reading another tutorials
On thursday I will get my LME and then start my agar. Until then I hope my spore prints are ready. Some say dry them, you say don't dry them - it seems that I am forced to dry them because obviously the caps will have finished the sporing procedure beforce my LME will arrive.
So I will dry the spore prints a litte. After pouring the agar in my petri dishes and waiting for it to cool down, I will take my inoculation needle, sterilize it outside the SAB with a flame, let it cool down inside the SAB and then take my dried spore print and put some of the spores on my agar plate.
Of course I will take care not to open the lid of the petri dish to long.
Then I close the petri dish, wrap it in seran paper (parafilm is too expensive here) and wait until it colonizes the petri dish.
Am I right so far? Where shall I store the petri dishes for colonization? If I understood correctly, in a dark place at room temperature?
Regards bodhisatta
-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
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bodhisatta 
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23728940 - 10/11/16 05:36 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Doesnt have to be a dark place a shelf is fine. I cut through the saran roll to make short pipes like 3cm wide mini rolls.
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AlCapone2k
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: bodhisatta]
#23729011 - 10/11/16 06:02 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Fine, thank you.
Then I will go into Jars, but this will take some time yet. I hope I can ask you some questions then, well, not really questions, just your opinions e.g. which Jar Lids to construct and so on. But we'll see, first of all I have to finish my agar experiment :P
have a nice day/evening. Regards!
-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
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bodhisatta 
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23729507 - 10/11/16 09:11 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Im around all the time so if you have a question i dont see send me a message
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AlCapone2k
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: bodhisatta]
#23730589 - 10/12/16 09:10 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thank you man, you are great! Some people here seem to be annoyed by noobs like me but you are always willing to help, even when the questions seem stupid.
Just a report: My first spore print is finished in the SAB, I just pulled off the cap and put some aluminium paper under the glass to let it dry now. The cap of the other sporeprint will be finished in two hours.
Since neither my LME nor my pressure cooker have arrived yet, I am forced to dry the spore prints, cause I can't start on agar today.
After the spore print is finished, do I have to dry it in the SAB or is it now save from contaminents? Is it possible to take it out of the SAB and put in a not sterlized box with some Calciumchlorid to dry? Or will it contamine then?
-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
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bodhisatta 
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23730611 - 10/12/16 09:20 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Just take the cap off the foil. And then put the jar or cup back over the print till it dries. If the jar or cup is wet sterilize/sanitize a new one and put it over the top of the print. Then fold the foil up so a clean sterile foil surface covers the print. Fold it up like a note you give to girls when you're 12.
You're whole printing process should be done in the SAB.
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AlCapone2k
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: bodhisatta]
#23730770 - 10/12/16 10:28 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thank you. Since the "free foil", which is not under the cup, is now about 24 hours in the SAB, is it better to take some new foil from the roll and put it on the dried print before folding it?
Or is it better to wipe some alcohol on the "free part of the foil", wait until it dries and then to cover it?
-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: AlCapone2k]
#23731881 - 10/12/16 05:08 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I always make sure the foil i print on is big enough to fold up. And make sure enough of the foil stays in the clean/sterile environment that i have enough excess foil to fold and cover the print
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AlCapone2k
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Re: B+ Growkit, first flush great, second flush with contamination? [Re: bodhisatta]
#23733145 - 10/13/16 04:46 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Clean/Sterile environment is the SAB or the part covered by the cup/jar put on the foil?
Because unfortunately the jar is just as big as the print so the area to fold on it was outside the jar.
So I better take new foil from the roll and put it on the print?
-------------------- Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best    My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek
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