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ColonelAngus
Stranger



Registered: 04/11/16
Posts: 124
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
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1st Agar Clone Noob. Move to Malt Agar? [PICS]
#23711810 - 10/05/16 11:31 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I know there's agar teks all over, but so many are about prepping agar etc, and I'm not doing that. i bought some plates online because I'm just doing hobby here, and no time to fuss, and plates seemed cheap online.
I took a fatty from my first flush and did a biopsy in my 'Lame-in-ar' box, and put some chunks of flesh on plates. They're growing out fuzz now after about a week. My temps are falling here in the northeast, so I think that may explain the slowness of growth.
Doesn't appear to be any contams, but my questions are about the fuzzy growth, and nothing looks 'sectored' or 'rhizomorphic'.
I put the trays on a cloth on top of the water heater the other day, and then got condensation.
Today I put 3 plates in the sun for about 30 minutes.
I just want any feedback on the pics below. The plates were from some cheap science kit online, so I'm wondering if that's better for bacteria growth etc. I just got some Malt-Agar plates on Ebay that were pitched as 'Great for Mushrooms'.
Should I wait for my slow-ass plates to go sector / rhizome? Then go to malt plates?
Any other observations on my shittography here?
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: 1st Agar Clone Noob. Move to Malt Agar? [PICS] [Re: ColonelAngus]
#23711826 - 10/05/16 11:39 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Good lord man how much did you pay for some shitty peptone plates? Just spend 20 bucks and make yer own. You also have enough parafilm on those 2 plates to wrap a sleeve.
Also your growth looks weak. Transfer to proper nutes and it will thank you. With a clone you ain't always gonna see sectors and you shouldn't bother trying to be getting isolates anyways at this stage. Just transfer once to bring the vigor up and use em.
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PirateSwazey


Registered: 12/12/12
Posts: 2,993
Loc: Here, Now
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Re: 1st Agar Clone Noob. Move to Malt Agar? [PICS] [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23711860 - 10/05/16 11:55 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Should I wait for my slow-ass plates to go sector / rhizome? Then go to malt plates?
No, transfer transfer transfer.
When taking a clone from tissue it is best to make a few transfers quickly to outrun any contaminates that may have been on the fruit body.
The plate below shows the typical amount of growth I allow from a tissue sample before transferring to a new petri:

Quote:
I put the trays on a cloth on top of the water heater the other day
In the future you need to store those in an environment with stable temperature if you want to minimize the condensation. If you do that you can see what you're looking at.
My recommendation to you is to store them inside a small insulated lunch box or cooler.
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: 1st Agar Clone Noob. Move to Malt Agar? [PICS] [Re: PirateSwazey]
#23712062 - 10/06/16 03:20 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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If that agar was for bacteria, it's very possible that it's hindering growth. Even agar made for fungi isn't always so great for mushrooms. You should definitely listen to pasty and make your own, those are not worth the money. How much did the MEA sleeve cost?
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ColonelAngus
Stranger



Registered: 04/11/16
Posts: 124
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
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Re: 1st Agar Clone Noob. Move to Malt Agar? [PICS] [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23712296 - 10/06/16 07:34 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Good lord man how much did you pay for some shitty peptone plates? Just spend 20 bucks and make yer own. You also have enough parafilm on those 2 plates to wrap a sleeve.
Also your growth looks weak. Transfer to proper nutes and it will thank you. With a clone you ain't always gonna see sectors and you shouldn't bother trying to be getting isolates anyways at this stage. Just transfer once to bring the vigor up and use em.
I think I paid $15 for the shitty plates, and $30 with free shipping on the MEA that just came in. I'm going to transfer and use, but I also have some slants ready in the fridge, and was hoping to get close to a monoculture for long-term storage and not deal with the stupid spore syringes any more. My grows and pin-sets seem so uneven, so I was hoping that an isolated strain would give me more consistent sized fruits and growth.
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ColonelAngus
Stranger



Registered: 04/11/16
Posts: 124
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
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Re: 1st Agar Clone Noob. Move to Malt Agar? [PICS] [Re: PirateSwazey]
#23712302 - 10/06/16 07:37 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
No, transfer transfer transfer.
Will do today. I really do want to try to isolate for the reasons in my last reply.
I don't see any contams yet. My 'lame-inar' box seems to work pretty well for avoiding them.
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ColonelAngus
Stranger



Registered: 04/11/16
Posts: 124
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
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Re: 1st Agar Clone Noob. Move to Malt Agar? [PICS] [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23712311 - 10/06/16 07:40 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Supalemonhaze said: If that agar was for bacteria, it's very possible that it's hindering growth. Even agar made for fungi isn't always so great for mushrooms. You should definitely listen to pasty and make your own, those are not worth the money. How much did the MEA sleeve cost?
I really would, but paying $30 for pre-made is worth it for me. I work 10-15 hr days, and the hobby takes enough of what time I have left.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: 1st Agar Clone Noob. Move to Malt Agar? [PICS] [Re: ColonelAngus]
#23712346 - 10/06/16 07:57 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Making some no pour agar takes very little time while allowing you to control the media.
If the clone is pretty stable off the bat you might never see sectors. If the agar is too rich you might never see sectors. Isolating a clone might even hurt it's performance.
At any rate it all needs to be tested. Having a clone or isolate is only a guarantee of consistency, nothing more. If may be consistently good, it might be consistent shit. Test it before you get your expectations up.
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PirateSwazey


Registered: 12/12/12
Posts: 2,993
Loc: Here, Now
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Re: 1st Agar Clone Noob. Move to Malt Agar? [PICS] [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23712442 - 10/06/16 08:41 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Something I think a lot of people don't realize when they first get into agar and want to jump straight into strain isolation is that just because you get to an isolate, that doesn't mean it's a good one. There is no way to tell what traits you are selecting until you test it out.
Most cube strains are relatively stable from the syringe... with multispore and cloning you will see awesome results time and time again.
What you should be aiming for is clean inoculant, not a single sector strain. You can spend months making transfers and throwing away your culture's genetics trying to find a bangin mono, or you can just make a couple transfers to make sure your culture is clean, then slant it and fruit it!
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ColonelAngus
Stranger



Registered: 04/11/16
Posts: 124
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
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Re: 1st Agar Clone Noob. Move to Malt Agar? [PICS] [Re: PirateSwazey]
#23712477 - 10/06/16 08:55 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
PirateSwazey said: Something I think a lot of people don't realize when they first get into agar and want to jump straight into strain isolation is that just because you get to an isolate, that doesn't mean it's a good one. There is no way to tell what traits you are selecting until you test it out.
Most cube strains are relatively stable from the syringe... with multispore and cloning you will see awesome results time and time again.
What you should be aiming for is clean inoculant, not a single sector strain. You can spend months making transfers and throwing away your culture's genetics trying to find a bangin mono, or you can just make a couple transfers to make sure your culture is clean, then slant it and fruit it!
Ok! Love that answer. I'm going to just transfer over to the MEA, then do a batch of grain and test it out. The fruit I took the tissue from was this massive bulbous looking thing, so should be interesting to see if the clone comes out similar.
Thanks for all the suggestions here.
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PirateSwazey


Registered: 12/12/12
Posts: 2,993
Loc: Here, Now
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Re: 1st Agar Clone Noob. Move to Malt Agar? [PICS] [Re: ColonelAngus]
#23712491 - 10/06/16 09:00 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I would recommend making at least 2 transfers to ensure you're working with a clean culture. You don't have to let the plates fully colonize between transfers, just let enough mycelium jump off your previous wedge to take a little piece to the next plate.
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ColonelAngus
Stranger



Registered: 04/11/16
Posts: 124
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
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Re: 1st Agar Clone Noob. Move to Malt Agar? [PICS] [Re: PirateSwazey]
#23712558 - 10/06/16 09:27 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
PirateSwazey said: I would recommend making at least 2 transfers to ensure you're working with a clean culture. You don't have to let the plates fully colonize between transfers, just let enough mycelium jump off your previous wedge to take a little piece to the next plate. 
Ok, will do. After that, do I let it grow out to the edge, then I can carve it up and noc up a bunch of jars? Then take a piece and keep a new plate going, maybe in the fridge to slow it down?
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PirateSwazey


Registered: 12/12/12
Posts: 2,993
Loc: Here, Now
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Re: 1st Agar Clone Noob. Move to Malt Agar? [PICS] [Re: ColonelAngus]
#23712693 - 10/06/16 10:10 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Best to not let it grow all the way to the edge, but we are all guilty of letting our plates go from time to time.
Typically I will use 1 plate to inoculate either 2 half gallon jars or 4 quart jars. This is just a matter of personal preference though, I have some friends who only use 1 plate for each master jar. To me it just depends on how confident you are that you have a clean culture, and with cloning I tend to feel that it is safer to expand further since you started out with mushroom tissue and watched it grow.
Quote:
Then take a piece and keep a new plate going, maybe in the fridge to slow it down?
I like to keep mycelium running that way because it keeps me from having to go back to the fridge and tap a slant all the time. Once your plates colonize 3/4 of the way store them in the fridge in a container or insulated box and they will be good to use for several months.
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ColonelAngus
Stranger



Registered: 04/11/16
Posts: 124
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
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Re: 1st Agar Clone Noob. Move to Malt Agar? [PICS] [Re: PirateSwazey]
#23713039 - 10/06/16 12:24 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Great stuff, Swayze.. thanks much.
Glad to hear I'm not the only one using 1/2 gallon jars. I had some big failures though when I tried to noc a few that had been sterilized about 2 months before. They got almost completely colonized before yeast caused failure. Smelled like a hot glass of beer.
Thanks again, I'll post back some results and pics!
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ColonelAngus
Stranger



Registered: 04/11/16
Posts: 124
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
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Re: 1st Agar Clone Noob. Move to Malt Agar? [PICS] [Re: PirateSwazey]
#23763870 - 10/23/16 10:44 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I transferred from the tissue plate over to a malt agar plate, let that grow out to about the size of a dime. Then I took tiny samples from opposite sides of the dime that looked like maybe they were sectors, but it was just fuzz so hard to tell.
Now I've got this one plate that looks like it's moving faster than the other, and maybe has some sectors?
I'm only about the size of a dime on this 2nd transfer, and wondering if I should wait to transfer again, or go ahead and take a couple samples from what appear to be 2 sectors here.
Below is one close up, and one of the whole plate for perspective.
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