|
viktor
psychotechnician



Registered: 11/03/10
Posts: 4,293
Loc: New Zealand
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
|
If you could change any one thing about the world
#23711550 - 10/05/16 09:38 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
What would it be? And:
Can you justify to others that this change should be made or is it just your own whim?
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: viktor] 1
#23711566 - 10/05/16 09:45 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Purely as a hypothetical, I would wave my wand and reduce the global population level to 100 million or less. That right there would have dozens of spinoff advantages which would solve many other currently intractable problems as well.
I could justify it by pointing out how many issues we currently face that it would resolve. I don't think such an idea is whimsical.
Hypothetically.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: DividedQuantum]
#23711604 - 10/05/16 09:57 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I would have every human see all other humans as absolute equals.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
|
Tuhdoww
Sub Slapper


Registered: 08/23/16
Posts: 300
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: DividedQuantum]
#23711634 - 10/05/16 10:06 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
DividedQuantum said: Purely as a hypothetical, I would wave my wand and reduce the global population level to 100 million or less. That right there would have dozens of spinoff advantages which would solve many other currently intractable problems as well.
I could justify it by pointing out how many issues we currently face that it would resolve. I don't think such an idea is whimsical.
Hypothetically.
Or make the earth bigger? That would probably cause more problems though.
I'd say make it so we don't need to sleep.
|
wolfiewolfie
Just wingin' it.


Registered: 06/16/15
Posts: 2,177
Loc: Australia
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: Jokeshopbeard] 1
#23711663 - 10/05/16 10:20 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I would change our biology, rewiring the human brain to give the largest dopamine release from genuine good deeds performed out of selfless compassion and giving migraines when malicious acts are carried out. This would create a world full of 'drug addicts' who must help thy neighbour in order to get their fix.
There are many potential benifits of this change. The monetary system would be obsolete, our destructive nature towards ourselves, others and the environment would become the complete opposite, poverty would become a distant memory and we would all have the strong motivation to work together as a species to care for each other and achieve amazing things.
--------------------
The only reason why T-rex's can't walk backwards is because they're extinct, which perfectly explains why there are no headaches in the rainforest; The parrots eat 'em all. My Drawings
|
Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: Tuhdoww]
#23711664 - 10/05/16 10:20 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Tuhdoww said: Or make the earth bigger? That would probably cause more problems though.
I think that would definitely cause more problems.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
|
Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: wolfiewolfie]
#23711672 - 10/05/16 10:23 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
wolfiewolfie said: I would change our biology, rewiring the human brain to give the largest dopamine release from genuine good deeds performed out of selfless compassion
Very interesting thought experiment. Makes me wonder if we were once inherently wired this way, but a corruption of our wiring system is being caused by the way we have been living for so long - probably due to our overpopulation.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
|
zZZz
jesus


Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 33,478
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: viktor] 1
#23711708 - 10/05/16 10:38 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I'd definitely change the people who think they own it, I'd take it from them and give it back to the people so that everyone has equal ownership over the world. It's absolutely ridiculous that I can step anywhere in the world and it will be owned by someone. I can go out to the middle of no where, where there appears to be no sign of life. and it will be owned by someone.
|
wolfiewolfie
Just wingin' it.


Registered: 06/16/15
Posts: 2,177
Loc: Australia
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
#23711745 - 10/05/16 10:56 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:
wolfiewolfie said: I would change our biology, rewiring the human brain to give the largest dopamine release from genuine good deeds performed out of selfless compassion
Very interesting thought experiment. Makes me wonder if we were once inherently wired this way, but a corruption of our wiring system is being caused by the way we have been living for so long - probably due to our overpopulation.
It's defiantly a possibility. It would explain some things, such as the building of the pyramids. Maybe there were no 'slaves' and everyone just wanted to do their part to get their dopamine fix?
A more revelant question would be is it possible to rewire our brains on a large enough scale to have a positive impact on the world or are we too divided, manipulated and corrupted to achieve this?
--------------------
The only reason why T-rex's can't walk backwards is because they're extinct, which perfectly explains why there are no headaches in the rainforest; The parrots eat 'em all. My Drawings
|
Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: wolfiewolfie]
#23712166 - 10/06/16 05:41 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
wolfiewolfie said: A more revelant question would be is it possible to rewire our brains on a large enough scale to have a positive impact on the world or are we too divided, manipulated and corrupted to achieve this?
I wish I could believe so, I really do, but brainwashing seems a remarkably effective tool to control most humans. Some kind of sheep/follow the crowd physchology I guess. Is what it is. I think we're way to far gone, and the powers of control way too influential, for there to be a way out of our current situation without a global disaster of some sort.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
|
sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: viktor]
#23712171 - 10/06/16 05:45 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Legalize and regulate all entheogens and see where it goes because people shouldn't be stopped from exploring their own minds.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
|
tump
ban the undead



Registered: 03/17/16
Posts: 2,383
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: sudly]
#23712217 - 10/06/16 06:30 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Id do one of two things . 1 id wipe out all apes including is humans form the planet earth. It would restore the nature over time. Or 2, id change this world where no one ages nor can they die nor give birth. That ones on a whip
|
Brian Jones
Club 27



Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 12,342
Loc: attending Snake Church
Last seen: 17 hours, 17 minutes
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: wolfiewolfie]
#23712253 - 10/06/16 06:56 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
wolfiewolfie said:
Quote:
Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:
wolfiewolfie said: I would change our biology, rewiring the human brain to give the largest dopamine release from genuine good deeds performed out of selfless compassion
Very interesting thought experiment. Makes me wonder if we were once inherently wired this way, but a corruption of our wiring system is being caused by the way we have been living for so long - probably due to our overpopulation.
It's defiantly a possibility. It would explain some things, such as the building of the pyramids. Maybe there were no 'slaves' and everyone just wanted to do their part to get their dopamine fix?
A more revelant question would be is it possible to rewire our brains on a large enough scale to have a positive impact on the world or are we too divided, manipulated and corrupted to achieve this?
I don't think that the people who built the pyramids just wanted to do their part. I go with the prevailing theories that they were worked to death. But there probably is no way to know for sure.
I keep thinking about the Neil Young song Cortez the Killer (different pyramids entirely, and a brilliant song title) but Neil made the Aztecs out to be wonderful and Cortez and the Spanish to be horrible; I think they were both brutal.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
|
wolfiewolfie
Just wingin' it.


Registered: 06/16/15
Posts: 2,177
Loc: Australia
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
#23712387 - 10/06/16 08:20 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:
wolfiewolfie said: A more revelant question would be is it possible to rewire our brains on a large enough scale to have a positive impact on the world or are we too divided, manipulated and corrupted to achieve this?
I wish I could believe so, I really do, but brainwashing seems a remarkably effective tool to control most humans. Some kind of sheep/follow the crowd physchology I guess. Is what it is. I think we're way to far gone, and the powers of control way too influential, for there to be a way out of our current situation without a global disaster of some sort.
I think the main problem is that you have to rewire your own brain, which is a paradox because the 'you' doing the rewiring is the same 'you' that is in need of rewiring.
--------------------
The only reason why T-rex's can't walk backwards is because they're extinct, which perfectly explains why there are no headaches in the rainforest; The parrots eat 'em all. My Drawings
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: wolfiewolfie] 1
#23712478 - 10/06/16 08:55 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I can't think of just one thing.
Biology: make it so that you could use lysergic psychedelics every day with no tolerance effects (maybe this is engineering).
Engineering: if only we had woven fibers that can react to assume different rigidity and elasticity - so your clothes can be an extension of your volition, and act like instant kevlar when under attack.
Politics: surely we could have better use of the web to engage realistic participatory democracy by all interested individuals (maybe this is engineering).
Basic Human Rights: extend to include water, food, clothing, housing, higher & lower education, medical services.
--------------------
_ 🧠_
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
#23712513 - 10/06/16 09:08 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:
wolfiewolfie said: A more revelant question would be is it possible to rewire our brains on a large enough scale to have a positive impact on the world or are we too divided, manipulated and corrupted to achieve this?
I wish I could believe so, I really do, but brainwashing seems a remarkably effective tool to control most humans. Some kind of sheep/follow the crowd physchology I guess. Is what it is. I think we're way to far gone, and the powers of control way too influential, for there to be a way out of our current situation without a global disaster of some sort.
The only thing that ever really precipitates major change is a crisis.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
Near Dylan
Shitpost Artist


Registered: 07/29/15
Posts: 13,929
Last seen: 8 days, 4 hours
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: viktor]
#23712520 - 10/06/16 09:12 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Make it so everyone knows how they got here and what happens when you die.
--------------------
|
Brian Jones
Club 27



Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 12,342
Loc: attending Snake Church
Last seen: 17 hours, 17 minutes
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: DividedQuantum]
#23712546 - 10/06/16 09:24 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
DividedQuantum said:
Quote:
Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:
wolfiewolfie said: A more revelant question would be is it possible to rewire our brains on a large enough scale to have a positive impact on the world or are we too divided, manipulated and corrupted to achieve this?
I wish I could believe so, I really do, but brainwashing seems a remarkably effective tool to control most humans. Some kind of sheep/follow the crowd physchology I guess. Is what it is. I think we're way to far gone, and the powers of control way too influential, for there to be a way out of our current situation without a global disaster of some sort.
The only thing that ever really precipitates major change is a crisis.
That is usually the case, but sometimes historically I think greed leads to major change.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: Brian Jones]
#23712954 - 10/06/16 11:53 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
it aint the world at fault if by world is meant the natural. The 'world', the one they call 'the real 'world' is what I hate. it is the world of ruthless profiteering, and pushing toxic myths, and all forms of poisoning, murder, maiming, genocide, ecocide.
However, we all have free will.
As I see it the problem is when thinking becomes dissociated from the organism, and thus the organism in relation to other organisms and the environment
you can see how those with power seem to WANT to keep this evil crap going on and hence their fanatical war on psychedelics for ALL. Knowing that, as I hope most here do, that psychedelics inspire this wholistic ecstatic sense of the whole organism being in deep interrelationship with the whole environment
THEY, the ruling class evil dead-head fkers, do not want that natural freedom being accessible. IMAGINE waging war against plants like cannabis and fungi. Look at the insanity of that!
|
zZZz
jesus


Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 33,478
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: zzripz]
#23713038 - 10/06/16 12:23 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
We're desensitized to the shit.
We're desensitized to the word desensitized.. No one wants to hear that shit anymore cuz fuck u lemme alone..
|
Alexestalex
fallen angel


Registered: 03/20/12
Posts: 5,644
Loc: heart of the sun
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: viktor]
#23713225 - 10/06/16 01:24 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I would get rid of all life.
If no life forms exist on earth, there won't be any suffering of any kind. That is quite a powerful ethical justification. Nobody would suffer and nobody would be deprived of any pleasures because nobody would exist. Win/win.
--------------------
Stay far from timid, only make moves when your heart's in it.
|
zZZz
jesus


Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 33,478
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: Alexestalex]
#23713251 - 10/06/16 01:33 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
The unexisting will still exist tho.. You'd have to get rid of those who don't exist too..
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: zZZz]
#23713350 - 10/06/16 02:20 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
the planet will be suffering in the emptiness of no life
--------------------
_ 🧠_
|
Alexestalex
fallen angel


Registered: 03/20/12
Posts: 5,644
Loc: heart of the sun
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: redgreenvines]
#23713364 - 10/06/16 02:26 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
No it wouldn't.
--------------------
Stay far from timid, only make moves when your heart's in it.
|
Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: Alexestalex]
#23713438 - 10/06/16 02:51 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Alexestalex said: I would get rid of all life.
I thought you loved animals? I can understand the scourge of humans, but why the animals?
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
|
Alexestalex
fallen angel


Registered: 03/20/12
Posts: 5,644
Loc: heart of the sun
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
#23713515 - 10/06/16 03:16 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Animals suffer too. Perhaps more than humans.
"Pleasure is never as pleasant as we expected it to be and pain is always more painful. The pain in the world always outweighs the pleasure. If you don't believe it, compare the respective feelings of two animals, one of which is eating the other."
--------------------
Stay far from timid, only make moves when your heart's in it.
|
Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: Alexestalex]
#23713547 - 10/06/16 03:24 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Alexestalex said: Animals suffer too.
Horseshit. Substantiate for me how you come to the conclusion that animals, in their undisturbed natural habitat 'suffer too' (as you seem to imply they do as humans).
And before you start to go down some path of 'being hunted/starved', consider the fact that perhaps they don't 'consider' that this constitutes 'suffering'. Perhaps that is just pure, undiluted existence to them.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
|
quinn
some kinda love


Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 6,799
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
#23713733 - 10/06/16 04:26 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
nature is violent and merciless!.. literal dog eat dog competing for survival shit..
-------------------- dripping with fantasy
|
quinn
some kinda love


Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 6,799
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: viktor]
#23713740 - 10/06/16 04:30 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
i would make myself the uncontested ruler of earth.. then enact my will on stuff
-------------------- dripping with fantasy
|
Sham87
mashAllah


Registered: 05/16/11
Posts: 9,818
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: viktor]
#23713753 - 10/06/16 04:34 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I would abolish institutionalized religion.
--------------------
   ...once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest places if you look at it right...
|
quinn
some kinda love


Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 6,799
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
#23714105 - 10/06/16 07:06 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
like what is suffering if not physical hardship/pain?
-------------------- dripping with fantasy
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: quinn] 1
#23714183 - 10/06/16 07:34 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I think Jsb has a point that animals do not conceptualize suffering like we do. We get into our own heads about it and brood and feel sorry for ourselves, &c. Animals don't do any of that. They obviously feel pain, but I think they accept it without worry whereas we most often do not. And it's not as if they are in pain all the time; in fact, most ecosystems prior to human encroachment were more than sufficient to maintain a steady population of most all species on average. It can be brutal in nature, but for the most part there is balance and sufficiency. Or was.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: DividedQuantum]
#23714346 - 10/06/16 08:35 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
don't underestimate animal sentiment, for their own pain or for others. they worry too!
--------------------
_ 🧠_
|
Leviticus969



Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 939
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: Alexestalex]
#23714394 - 10/06/16 08:49 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Alexestalex said: Animals suffer too. Perhaps more than humans.
"Pleasure is never as pleasant as we expected it to be and pain is always more painful. The pain in the world always outweighs the pleasure. If you don't believe it, compare the respective feelings of two animals, one of which is eating the other."
Quote:
2 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
God created the world in 6 days. So 6 days of Labor... On the 7th day he rested. This is the code which is ingrained into our lives. A lot of hardships to appreciate the few pleasures. This is the balance in which God created.
That's the formula right there.... so endure the pain in righteousness and enjoy/reap what you sow.
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: Leviticus969]
#23714408 - 10/06/16 08:56 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
anything in that bible there about what you would change if you could only change one (or two..) things?
--------------------
_ 🧠_
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: redgreenvines]
#23714416 - 10/06/16 08:59 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
redgreenvines said: don't underestimate animal sentiment, for their own pain or for others. they worry too!
Oh, you're right, animals definitely do worry. But it is apparent that they do not conceptualize their troubles in the form of suffering, at least not in such a bothersome way as we do. Other than the other primates, most animals do not seem to brood, for example.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: DividedQuantum]
#23714510 - 10/06/16 09:36 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
DividedQuantum said: Oh, you're right, animals definitely do worry.
I imagine it to be more of a stress response due to danger, similar to (or the same as) what we experience. But it doesn't strike me that they'd run off, have a bite to eat, and then sit around thinking about how terrible the world is, and wanting revenge upon it, because it nearly killed them.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
#23714551 - 10/06/16 09:56 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I agree.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
Leviticus969



Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 939
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: redgreenvines]
#23714846 - 10/07/16 12:23 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
redgreenvines said: anything in that bible there about what you would change if you could only change one (or two..) things?
I would destroy the whole new testament... It's my belief that it's Luciferian... The middle east also believes this. Muslims/Hebrews/Jews claim Jesus to be the false messiah.
|
quinn
some kinda love


Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 6,799
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: DividedQuantum]
#23714912 - 10/07/16 01:04 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
so you think self knowledge is more relevant to suffering than say, having your toe nails pulled out? im not convinced 
Quote:
most ecosystems prior to human encroachment were more than sufficient to maintain a steady population of most all species on average. It can be brutal in nature, but for the most part there is balance and sufficiency. Or was.
this seems wrong imo... i mean prior to human intervention we still had droughts, disease, famine and natural disasters. we've had countless extinctions prior to human intervention, we've even had mass extinction events! conditions change
..and even maintaining stable population group doesnt mean that there isnt a whole lot of suffering going on in the balancing act of survival..
i think reality is harsh and unforgiving for the most part.
Quote:
I imagine it to be more of a stress response due to danger, similar to (or the same as) what we experience. But it doesn't strike me that they'd run off, have a bite to eat, and then sit around thinking about how terrible the world is, and wanting revenge upon it, because it nearly killed them.
idk man i think animals would over eat if they were kept in a shitty conditions.. birds pluck out their own feathers in captivity.. i dont think it so different really.. 'woe is me' mental content altho a bit shitty does not seem like the worst of suffering does it?
-------------------- dripping with fantasy
|
Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: quinn]
#23715053 - 10/07/16 03:10 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Jokeshopbeard said: in their undisturbed natural habitat
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
#23715176 - 10/07/16 05:38 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
animals were the first slaves. 'Next' it was women.
So let us see difference between animals used as slaves and animals treated fairly and humanely and symbitoically in domestication and/or wild
Look at how the evil mechanistic mindset used/uses eg chickens, like in a hideous concentration-camp matrix conveyor belt. Compare with a free range farm. totally different worlds
|
yeah



Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 3,729
Last seen: 1 month, 22 days
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: zzripz]
#23715497 - 10/07/16 07:53 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zzripz said: animals were the first slaves. 'Next' it was women.
So let us see difference between animals used as slaves and animals treated fairly and humanely and symbitoically in domestication and/or wild
Look at how the evil mechanistic mindset used/uses eg chickens, like in a hideous concentration-camp matrix conveyor belt. Compare with a free range farm. totally different worlds
I don't understand your viewpoint exactly. Are you saying we need a symbiotic relationship with men and women in the west?
--------------------
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: quinn]
#23715707 - 10/07/16 09:18 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Sure we had droughts, disease, famine and natural disasters -- but not continuously. If life in the ecosystem were so bad, life would not have survived for billions of years. I don't see how extinction, which does not happen to a large percentage of species at any given time, is relevant.
Once again, I do not feel that animals conceptualize a set of unfortunate events as suffering. This is readily apparent to me.
Animals are not always in pain. You're projecting human bias.
Reality can be harsh and unforgiving; it is not so at all times.
Most animals do not eat themselves to death. When they are full, they stop. Exceptions to this are horses, cows and some dogs, which are all domesticated.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: yeah]
#23715863 - 10/07/16 10:19 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
yeah said:
Quote:
zzripz said: animals were the first slaves. 'Next' it was women.
So let us see difference between animals used as slaves and animals treated fairly and humanely and symbitoically in domestication and/or wild
Look at how the evil mechanistic mindset used/uses eg chickens, like in a hideous concentration-camp matrix conveyor belt. Compare with a free range farm. totally different worlds
I don't understand your viewpoint exactly. Are you saying we need a symbiotic relationship with men and women in the west?
Yes, and more so with other species and nature which we have been driven to see as alien and hostile and 'only the fittest survive' etc. Understanding symbiotic connection
|
Alexestalex
fallen angel


Registered: 03/20/12
Posts: 5,644
Loc: heart of the sun
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
#23716038 - 10/07/16 11:18 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:
Alexestalex said: Animals suffer too.
Horseshit. Substantiate for me how you come to the conclusion that animals, in their undisturbed natural habitat 'suffer too' (as you seem to imply they do as humans).
And before you start to go down some path of 'being hunted/starved', consider the fact that perhaps they don't 'consider' that this constitutes 'suffering'. Perhaps that is just pure, undiluted existence to them.
Animals do not have a deep sense of self and they aren't as aware of time as humans so they typically don't suffer psychologically, but I'm sure the physical pain they experience when they are being eaten alive is immense. And intelligent animals can suffer emotionally. They aren't just robots, they do have a sense of memory and they can form attachments. Animals can feel traumatized or abandoned or afraid.
If you look at the anatomy of complex animals, they all share similar pain receptors and they all react to pain in a similar way.
If no animals existed, that would imply that no innocent animals would have to endure the pain of being eaten alive. Isn't that a wonderful thing?
--------------------
Stay far from timid, only make moves when your heart's in it.
|
Alexestalex
fallen angel


Registered: 03/20/12
Posts: 5,644
Loc: heart of the sun
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: DividedQuantum]
#23716065 - 10/07/16 11:29 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
DividedQuantum said: Sure we had droughts, disease, famine and natural disasters -- but not continuously. If life in the ecosystem were so bad, life would not have survived for billions of years. I don't see how extinction, which does not happen to a large percentage of species at any given time, is relevant.
Once again, I do not feel that animals conceptualize a set of unfortunate events as suffering. This is readily apparent to me.
Animals are not always in pain. You're projecting human bias.
Reality can be harsh and unforgiving; it is not so at all times.
Most animals do not eat themselves to death. When they are full, they stop. Exceptions to this are horses, cows and some dogs, which are all domesticated.
1) reality is sometimes extremely pleasant. But pleasure and pain are assymetrical. Imagine you can press a button. If you do, one random person will get a Lamborghini and become very happy. But another person will get terminal cancer and suffer immensely. It's ethically wrong to press this button. Simply because someone is going to experience joy from it doesn't cancel out the suffering it will cause another person. Even if 100 people got lamborghinis and one person got cancer, you still wouldn't have an ethical right to press it. So even though life can be very beautiful from time to time doesn't cancel out the horrors of existence. Joy and horror are assymetrical.
You can even ask yourself this question to prove it. Would you endure a month of the worst possible torture for a month of the most sublime pleasure possible? Of course not. The desire to escape immense pain is the most powerful human desire.
2) Animals certainly do suffer. I don't understand how this is arguable. Yeah, maybe animals don't sit around contemplating existence and feeling depressed but they certainly feel immense physical pain when they are eaten alive by another animal.
3) life doesn't have to be pleasant for life to continue. Life can be extremely gorey. Anybody who has studied a bit of evolutionary biology knows why life persists.
--------------------
Stay far from timid, only make moves when your heart's in it.
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: Alexestalex]
#23716068 - 10/07/16 11:30 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
but that idea is a death cult. it is worshipping 'death' as the answer and denying life
|
Alexestalex
fallen angel


Registered: 03/20/12
Posts: 5,644
Loc: heart of the sun
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: zzripz]
#23716080 - 10/07/16 11:35 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
What is "life" though?
Life is the collection of all sentient experience, is it not?
Antinatalism means wanting to stop horrible experiences like cancer, wars, gorey misfortunes, etc, which are a part of life. But I am not against life itself.
If no innocent beings had to suffer immense misfortunes like disease, I wouldn't be against pro-creation.
Labelling it as a cult is just an easy way to disregard it.
But your perspective is so inconsistent. I could just as well say that euthanasia is a cult movement that denies life.
--------------------
Stay far from timid, only make moves when your heart's in it.
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: Alexestalex] 1
#23716260 - 10/07/16 12:45 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Alexestalex said:
Quote:
DividedQuantum said: Sure we had droughts, disease, famine and natural disasters -- but not continuously. If life in the ecosystem were so bad, life would not have survived for billions of years. I don't see how extinction, which does not happen to a large percentage of species at any given time, is relevant.
Once again, I do not feel that animals conceptualize a set of unfortunate events as suffering. This is readily apparent to me.
Animals are not always in pain. You're projecting human bias.
Reality can be harsh and unforgiving; it is not so at all times.
Most animals do not eat themselves to death. When they are full, they stop. Exceptions to this are horses, cows and some dogs, which are all domesticated.
1) reality is sometimes extremely pleasant. But pleasure and pain are assymetrical. Imagine you can press a button. If you do, one random person will get a Lamborghini and become very happy. But another person will get terminal cancer and suffer immensely. It's ethically wrong to press this button. Simply because someone is going to experience joy from it doesn't cancel out the suffering it will cause another person. Even if 100 people got lamborghinis and one person got cancer, you still wouldn't have an ethical right to press it. So even though life can be very beautiful from time to time doesn't cancel out the horrors of existence. Joy and horror are assymetrical.
You can even ask yourself this question to prove it. Would you endure a month of the worst possible torture for a month of the most sublime pleasure possible? Of course not. The desire to escape immense pain is the most powerful human desire.
2) Animals certainly do suffer. I don't understand how this is arguable. Yeah, maybe animals don't sit around contemplating existence and feeling depressed but they certainly feel immense physical pain when they are eaten alive by another animal.
3) life doesn't have to be pleasant for life to continue. Life can be extremely gorey. Anybody who has studied a bit of evolutionary biology knows why life persists.
Could it be possible that you are a disaffected, unhappy modern civilized person who is projecting his bias outward to everything? Life at a baseline state isn't that miserable, dude. If it were, hominids would never have made it through millions of years of life on Earth.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: viktor]
#23716507 - 10/07/16 02:12 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Pain, it's obsolete imho... I'd prefer a world where instead of aching I'd get an alert message thought " I need to go see the doctor, my _____ is in trouble"......
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
|
Alexestalex
fallen angel


Registered: 03/20/12
Posts: 5,644
Loc: heart of the sun
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: DividedQuantum]
#23716872 - 10/07/16 04:18 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
DividedQuantum said: Could it be possible that you are a disaffected, unhappy modern civilized person who is projecting his bias outward to everything? Life at a baseline state isn't that miserable, dude. If it were, hominids would never have made it through millions of years of life on Earth. 
My own life's quality has no bearing on this argument.
I am simply observing what I see. Planet earth isn't an inherently peaceful, safe place. It is full of horrific misfortunes from rape to disease to violence to war.
Joyous experiences certainly exist in life, as well as horrific, heinous experiences that nobody should have to endure.
If I had a choice between creating a planet in which some people would be extremely happy but some innocent people would experience immense misery and pain OR not creating the planet AT ALL, I would choose the latter.
To me, it's ethically more important for innocent people to not have to experience the horrors of life. Justifying the suffering of those people by saying that other people's happiness and joy "balances is out" is a very flawed way of looking at the situation.
Joyful experiences do not "cancel out" horrific experiences by any means. There is a very clear asymmetry between the two. They are not polar opposites.
I, myself, have never experienced such horrific events but just look up all the tragic news that happen everyday. Every minute, one person commits suicide.
--------------------
Stay far from timid, only make moves when your heart's in it.
Edited by Alexestalex (10/07/16 04:24 PM)
|
bigdoodie
it does not matter


Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 238
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: viktor]
#23716906 - 10/07/16 04:28 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
The purpose of the universe is to experience life, the most irrational thing in the world is death, that is why all of this technology has been created and why the Illuminati is so hell bent on time travel/teleportation/cloning/ conscious transfer. Unless our last name is Rothschild or some shit, immortality is not an option. The engineers will have to earn their right to live after they have served the elite, and they will not give a damn about the immortality of those below them. There is no factual evidence of an afterlife, and reincarnation is a coping strategy to deal with death in a less negative way. When we lose our memory we are dead, there is no reincarnation. The bible does state the condition of the dead, as "the dead know nothing". And then how many times "he who has an ear let him hear" we have to wonder what exactly the message is, and not just go on a hunch and a sensation of guilt. Copernicus said the universe functions not by laws but by symbols and signs. We are not bound to the ideas that our minds are raped with. If we are being marched into a death camp and told to commit a sin or die, what do you think the rational thing to do would be, having not witnessed an afterlife?
All of us do have the ability to change the world. The butterfly affect proves that one thrust of a butterfly's wings can create a hurricane on the other side of the world. Someone witnesses it, has a thought, does something about it, chain reaction. Once we connect with the all-one, we can know how our small choices will impact the world, and we can end a war by throwing a paper airplane out of our bedroom window. There's a series on Netflix called 'touch' and it explains how the 'gods' have tied a ribbon around the ankle of every person and that it may bend or stretch but will never break, and that all things meant to happen will happen, but as we get more evil we start to stetch the ribbon, because we're serving the self And not focused on what kind of world we are leaving for the next generations. There is so much we don't know about the Illuminati and the things happening, this war is preventable, and if we speak too loud we get noticed, plant some seeds, and keep watering them, they will grow. Repetition is the #1 mind control method, so we are conditioned to the new world order now when we don't have to accept it. Save your families, the FEMA camps are quarantine centers and people will be encouraged to go there for safety and food- we could even be rounded up. At all costs, avoid those facilities. Anyone currently in (America) Florida, Georgia, Alabama, east Mississippi, north and south Carolina, California, Washington, and Oregon, needs to move inward. There will be few survivors in those states, I'm so sorry to tell you. Be self reliant, if your family won't leave, go alone, your existence depends on it. The highest ranking individuals are all in on the plan, they know exactly how and when things will happen, and trump hinted at November 8 (NOVEMBER EIGHTH) being a really bad day. Its like that south park episode where everyone is running away from global warming and then nothing happens, we are being conditioned to accept this, like boiling a frog. Don't be the toadies!!!
|
Alexestalex
fallen angel


Registered: 03/20/12
Posts: 5,644
Loc: heart of the sun
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: bigdoodie]
#23716916 - 10/07/16 04:30 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Do you consider euthanasia to be irrational?
--------------------
Stay far from timid, only make moves when your heart's in it.
|
bigdoodie
it does not matter


Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 238
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: Alexestalex]
#23716950 - 10/07/16 04:40 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Well what is deemed rational is based on the sense of purpose and if the purpose of life is to live then death is the rational thing to avoid beyond all other things. Even in a coma we will experience dreams, and anyone who's in bad enough shape to want to die should be shown much love. Beyond what our temporary opinion of life may be, at true state of being we would all rather be in hell than to not exist at all.
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: Alexestalex] 1
#23717150 - 10/07/16 05:53 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Alexestalex said:
Quote:
DividedQuantum said: Could it be possible that you are a disaffected, unhappy modern civilized person who is projecting his bias outward to everything? Life at a baseline state isn't that miserable, dude. If it were, hominids would never have made it through millions of years of life on Earth. 
My own life's quality has no bearing on this argument.
I am simply observing what I see. Planet earth isn't an inherently peaceful, safe place. It is full of horrific misfortunes from rape to disease to violence to war.
Joyous experiences certainly exist in life, as well as horrific, heinous experiences that nobody should have to endure.
If I had a choice between creating a planet in which some people would be extremely happy but some innocent people would experience immense misery and pain OR not creating the planet AT ALL, I would choose the latter.
To me, it's ethically more important for innocent people to not have to experience the horrors of life. Justifying the suffering of those people by saying that other people's happiness and joy "balances is out" is a very flawed way of looking at the situation.
Joyful experiences do not "cancel out" horrific experiences by any means. There is a very clear asymmetry between the two. They are not polar opposites.
I, myself, have never experienced such horrific events but just look up all the tragic news that happen everyday. Every minute, one person commits suicide.
Yeah, we've created quite a hell for ourselves, but it is not the case that animals in a state of nature are always suffering. That's just wrong. There are worse times, and there are better times, and there's what's in between. Life on Earth is not a hell for everybody, and if it's a hell for most humans, that doesn't mean it was a hell before intensive agriculture. You clearly have unresolved issues that you're projecting; life on Earth, for most of its history, did not see every species suffering miserably. Humanity has exploded in the last 10,000 years (a blink of an eye), and that has made for some awful conditions for humans and other animals, for everybody. But don't conflate that with the natural state of things. Most of the suffering one now sees arises from artificial (man-made) causes.
Look at the Hadza, a group of hunter-gatherers in Tanzania. They live in a rural place, and civilization is encroaching but hasn't swallowed them yet. They don't feel like they're suffering at all, and they do not fear death. Interesting example.
|
Leviticus969



Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 939
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: Alexestalex]
#23717865 - 10/07/16 09:25 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
It's all up in the movies and most people have no idea. For instance, star wars, the force vs the darkside...
YHWH vs Jesus.
The lion King, Scar is Lucifer/Jesus telling simba to not give a shit "hakuna mattata" so Scar/Jesus/Lucifer can rule the kingdom..
Scar/Jesus/Lucifer, then turns the pride rock and pride lands into a desolate wasteland.
Simba finds out who he really is. A son of a king, Mufasa (YHWH). A fearsome Lion that's supposed to rule righteously by destroying evil.
So Simba follows his FATHER/YHWH and kills scar/jesus/lucifer.
Then the pridelands is all bright and sunny again. the end.
|
quinn
some kinda love


Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 6,799
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: DividedQuantum]
#23720737 - 10/08/16 09:29 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
DividedQuantum said: Sure we had droughts, disease, famine and natural disasters -- but not continuously. If life in the ecosystem were so bad, life would not have survived for billions of years. I don't see how extinction, which does not happen to a large percentage of species at any given time, is relevant.
Once again, I do not feel that animals conceptualize a set of unfortunate events as suffering. This is readily apparent to me.
Animals are not always in pain. You're projecting human bias.
Reality can be harsh and unforgiving; it is not so at all times.
Most animals do not eat themselves to death. When they are full, they stop. Exceptions to this are horses, cows and some dogs, which are all domesticated.
i never said animals are always in pain but they no doubt are sometimes in pain and sometimes suffer... why is 'conceptualising' events relevant to suffering??
whether nature is a happy or sad place is a pretty stupid debate imo but i will say it's full of death and flux and extinction and just because something is surviving for the moment doesnt mean it is having a good time
-------------------- dripping with fantasy
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: quinn] 1
#23720756 - 10/08/16 09:37 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
quinn said: i never said animals are always in pain but they no doubt are sometimes in pain and sometimes suffer... why is 'conceptualising' events relevant to suffering??
whether nature is a happy or sad place is a pretty stupid debate imo but i will say it's full of death and flux and extinction and just because something is surviving for the moment doesnt mean it is having a good time 
My point is that it doesn't mean it's having a bad time, either.
As far as conceptualizing goes, I think much of the sting of suffering comes from constantly telling ourselves we are suffering, that this sucks. Without recognizing adversity as suffering, there is not nearly as much suffering going on. It is simply accepted. I think this is closer to the natural attitude than wallowing in misery, which is what civilized humans do best.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
viktor
psychotechnician



Registered: 11/03/10
Posts: 4,293
Loc: New Zealand
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: DividedQuantum] 2
#23721193 - 10/09/16 03:38 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
DividedQuantum said: I think this is closer to the natural attitude than wallowing in misery, which is what civilized humans do best. 
I no longer wallow in misery - perhaps I have shucked off the vestiges of civilisation?
The real paradox is that there's nothing that can be changed - consciousness will experience yin and yang, and beyond that it will experience earth, water, air and fire, and beyond that it will experience heaven and earth, mountain and lake, water and fire, thunder and wind.
This is true is one is born a man or a mouse, healthy or sick, or even on this planet or a distant one.
Everything else is trivia.
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: Alexestalex]
#23721216 - 10/09/16 04:19 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Alexestalex said: What is "life" though?
Life is the collection of all sentient experience, is it not?
Antinatalism means wanting to stop horrible experiences like cancer, wars, gorey misfortunes, etc, which are a part of life. But I am not against life itself.
If no innocent beings had to suffer immense misfortunes like disease, I wouldn't be against pro-creation.
Labelling it as a cult is just an easy way to disregard it.
But your perspective is so inconsistent. I could just as well say that euthanasia is a cult movement that denies life.
you cannot have life without death, or know life without death. Life&death are not separate 'things' but a dynamic.
euthanasia is different from wanting no life because all you see is suffering. who are YOU to impose that on nature? Who are you to say who lives or dies because of your worldview?
Euthanasia is different IF the choice is the individual choice. if they do not want the life they are living for whatever reason.
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: viktor]
#23721535 - 10/09/16 09:20 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
viktor said: I no longer wallow in misery - perhaps I have shucked off the vestiges of civilisation?
The real paradox is that there's nothing that can be changed - consciousness will experience yin and yang, and beyond that it will experience earth, water, air and fire, and beyond that it will experience heaven and earth, mountain and lake, water and fire, thunder and wind.
This is true is one is born a man or a mouse, healthy or sick, or even on this planet or a distant one.
Everything else is trivia.
Interesting and well said.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: DividedQuantum]
#23721554 - 10/09/16 09:30 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
wait, how is that a paradox?
--------------------
_ 🧠_
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: redgreenvines]
#23721602 - 10/09/16 09:57 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I took it to mean that even though we have a certain freedom, we are still bound by circumstances. But I suppose you'd have to ask viktor.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
DrStupid
Standup Philosopher


Registered: 09/24/16
Posts: 42
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: DividedQuantum] 1
#23724251 - 10/10/16 04:44 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Maybe this his been covered already and I missed it but I would give all animals the ability to speak. Everything. Condors, brine shrimp, cassowaries, chipmunks, you name it. I'm not sure about plants but why not. Add them to the list, too. It would certainly make this world a very different place.
-------------------- The aim is to balance the terror of being alive with the wonder of being alive.
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: DrStupid]
#23724292 - 10/10/16 05:39 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I would encourage the walls to have ears as well
--------------------
_ 🧠_
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: DrStupid]
#23724295 - 10/10/16 05:41 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
DrStupid said: Maybe this his been covered already and I missed it but I would give all animals the ability to speak. Everything. Condors, brine shrimp, cassowaries, chipmunks, you name it. I'm not sure about plants but why not. Add them to the list, too. It would certainly make this world a very different place.
twould be better we learn their languages, which many have forgotten
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: zzripz]
#23724299 - 10/10/16 05:45 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
many what have forgotten what
--------------------
_ 🧠_
|
viktor
psychotechnician



Registered: 11/03/10
Posts: 4,293
Loc: New Zealand
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: redgreenvines]
#23724310 - 10/10/16 06:05 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Animals talk in body language, not with words and shit.
If you understand the body language of cats and dogs they are more expressive than drunk people at least. Birds almost as much.
I can't say I've ever really connected with an insect though but I've heard of people who have.
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
|
Brian Jones
Club 27



Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 12,342
Loc: attending Snake Church
Last seen: 17 hours, 17 minutes
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: redgreenvines]
#23724314 - 10/10/16 06:13 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I know this unrealistic but I wish there was a social grading system that would sort people out and you could go out and avoid the assholes. It's not a real big deal. I haven't taken a punch in 35+ years, but sometimes you have to pick up your beer and sit at the other side of the bar just to get away from a jerk. I don't worry about these people because I have friends in the bar and behind the bar, but it's really irritating when 30,60, 90 minutes is ruined by someone's verbal imbecility, when you just wanted to relax. Two good things about my joint is the woman who runs it consults me about who should be barred from the place, and they got a 2nd pool table so if one gets infested with stupidity, just play on the other table.
I'm sure other people answered this post with high minded ideas about saving the world, but this is my world.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: Brian Jones]
#23724339 - 10/10/16 06:44 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Brian Jones said: I know this unrealistic but I wish there was a social grading system that would sort people out and you could go out and avoid the assholes. It's not a real big deal. I haven't taken a punch in 35+ years, but sometimes you have to pick up your beer and sit at the other side of the bar just to get away from a jerk. I don't worry about these people because I have friends in the bar and behind the bar, but it's really irritating when 30,60, 90 minutes is ruined by someone's verbal imbecility, when you just wanted to relax. Two good things about my joint is the woman who runs it consults me about who should be barred from the place, and they got a 2nd pool table so if one gets infested with stupidity, just play on the other table.
I'm sure other people answered this post with high minded ideas about saving the world, but this is my world.
one really good solution that works on many levels is to have a handsome and well disposition-ed bouncer paid to oversee the door, and premises.
--------------------
_ 🧠_
|
MushroomBilly
Explorer


Registered: 03/24/13
Posts: 374
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: redgreenvines]
#23727581 - 10/11/16 07:56 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I often wonder what a world would be like if nobody had the ability to lie ...
|
Thisquestionpls
Stranger
Registered: 10/15/16
Posts: 10
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: MushroomBilly] 1
#23738981 - 10/15/16 12:55 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Without a doubt I would give basic needs to all
|
phio


Registered: 10/07/16
Posts: 369
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: viktor]
#23738986 - 10/15/16 12:58 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
viktor said:
I no longer wallow in misery - perhaps I have shucked off the vestiges of civilisation?
The real paradox is that there's nothing that can be changed - consciousness will experience yin and yang, and beyond that it will experience earth, water, air and fire, and beyond that it will experience heaven and earth, mountain and lake, water and fire, thunder and wind.
This is true is one is born a man or a mouse, healthy or sick, or even on this planet or a distant one.
Everything else is trivia.
A man after my own heart
|
littleton
Stranger



Registered: 08/18/10
Posts: 440
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: phio]
#23740606 - 10/15/16 06:35 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I would change everybodies existence except for mine. so everybody is erased and it is only me.
|
morpheus85
Stranger


Registered: 11/16/16
Posts: 21
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: Thisquestionpls]
#23841090 - 11/17/16 09:49 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Make people start thinking for themselves and become open minded.
|
laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: morpheus85]
#23842473 - 11/17/16 04:33 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
to take this question seriously you have to buy into the idea that 'reality' is substantial and that seems s a serious mistake perhaps even the desire to wake up is part of the dream
|
Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: laughingdog]
#23842914 - 11/17/16 06:19 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Just make everybody take DMT. Problem solved.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
|
Jenjens
Stranger

Registered: 10/10/16
Posts: 150
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
#23843165 - 11/17/16 07:24 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
If I would change one thing about the world, as hateful as it sounds, I would erase any thought that making humans the way we are is a good idea. We are so bad to this earth and the other beautiful creatures that inhabit this world.
|
laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: viktor] 1
#23843233 - 11/17/16 07:46 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
another hidden implication of the question is that your happiness is dependent on external conditions
from someone as spiritually minded as Mr. viktor, it is indeed strange to propose such a koan on the unsuspecting public
|
littleton
Stranger


Registered: 08/18/10
Posts: 440
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
#23843380 - 11/17/16 08:36 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Jokeshopbeard said: Just make everybody take DMT. Problem solved.
Or like mass bombings of DMT And people are kalidascoping into eachothers dreams all on DMT at the same time.
|
Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: littleton]
#23843546 - 11/17/16 09:29 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
And red baseball caps that say 'Make America Do DMT Again'.
Encouraged weekly DMT dosing. Change the world, we could.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
|
Penelope_Tree
Shamanic Panic



Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 8,535
Loc: magic sugarcastle
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: Jokeshopbeard] 2
#23846695 - 11/18/16 09:05 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
We need people to do peyote and face their deep cores of emptiness, then return to the village humbled.
--------------------
full blown human
|
Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: Penelope_Tree] 1
#23846903 - 11/18/16 09:57 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Funnily enough, after taking the train to work the other day and jumping on the opportunity of not riding for once to take some 2C-B before facing the busy world of business and finance in the city (I don't recommend this combo especially if you ever have the chance to try such a thing, it was surreal as fuck), I came to a similar conclusion.
Standing outside a skyscraper, smoking, tripping hard, watching this machine world go on around me and overhearing snippets of conversations related to the perpetual improvement of the machine, I felt a huge wave of empathy for the many that become so engulfed in this system, forging their whole lives around and within it, when the whole thing is designed to (truly) serve so very few, whilst everyone below just sacrifices so much of themselves to it and in doing so loses so much connection with their inner selves. So much wasted potential. I nearly wept.
Returning to the village humbled resonates with me at a very deep level. I feel that is exactly where my path is taking me; only I'm just months away from truly leaving the village, for the first time, and I'm fucking scared of the things I know I'm gonna have to face before I can ever return.
Doesn't help that making such a move is done against such a strong undercurrent that pulls in the opposite direction...
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: Jokeshopbeard] 1
#23846927 - 11/18/16 10:02 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
I am sending you a pair of these for Christmas:
--------------------
|
Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#23846984 - 11/18/16 10:17 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Can you send me some emotional ones please? Like a fucking angel or something to sit on my shoulder like a pirates parrot to guide and reassure me along the way?
I'd feel a bit silly walking amongst nature wearing those.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
|
The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,660
Loc: The Primordial Mind
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#23846986 - 11/18/16 10:18 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
ability to share a mind . like you and a family member, or you and a friend, or you and another species of animal.
that way instead of being limited to expressing ourselves through the medium of sound and sight and language we could just do it directly without any misinterpretation and without any thing getting the way , perfect , and directly sharing of the mind as 1. Then true understanding of one another would be completed, and people would know them selves and their neighbors as one race.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
|
viktor
psychotechnician



Registered: 11/03/10
Posts: 4,293
Loc: New Zealand
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: Jokeshopbeard] 1
#23847194 - 11/18/16 11:25 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Jokeshopbeard said: Can you send me some emotional ones please? Like a fucking angel or something to sit on my shoulder like a pirates parrot to guide and reassure me along the way?
I'd feel a bit silly walking amongst nature wearing those.
The Aussie countryside is as far from London as anything could be. You'll know straight away if you fucked up by coming down here or not.
The nicest thing in my experience is the time to think.
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
|
Re: If you could change any one thing about the world [Re: viktor]
#23847416 - 11/19/16 02:30 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
In London, a dingo never ate your baby.
--------------------
|
|