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OfflineSolipsis
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Microcontrolled Grow Habitat * 1
    #23709467 - 10/05/16 10:18 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Since winter is coming (insert meme) and my plant collection is expanding and needs a real place to stay I decided to build an indoor grow habitat. Not sure what the common term for it is, if there is one, but I'll lay it out:

Imagine a sort of reinforced bookcase with 3 levels: the bottom is storage, on top of that I want a humid environment for my plants, so a little bit like a hybrid of an aquarium, a bookcase and a wardrobe closet (I am making doors). On top of the humid environment I want an arid environment for the cacti and succulents etc.

Heating and ventilation for both, Arduino controlled probably. Not really looking for automation of irrigation and things like that, for now.

Computer case fans for the ventilation should be fine, and I have one heating cable to be put in a layer of sand and will probably buy a second one for the other level.

LED lighting, I have one panel and two lamps already but want to buy two more panels with more power. So not really any issue with too much heat generation.

Have you built anything like this? Tips?


Edited by Solipsis (10/05/16 10:23 AM)


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InvisibleBacchus
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Re: Microcontrolled Grow Habitat [Re: Solipsis]
    #23723474 - 10/09/16 08:04 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

You'll overshoot your target temperature if you have a thermometer interrupting your microcontroller when the environment reaches your target temp. Depending on the depth of the sand, you may overshoot by a lot. Sand has a higher heat capacity than atmosphere, so the temperature will continue to rise after you shut off the heating element.

I suspect that you'll have to fiddle with it until you find the actual temperature to drive your interrupt. So, my tip is to run it for several  days in a sort of "verbose mode" before you move any plants in.

I would have it log the analog values from your sensors at the time of each interrupt as well as at regular intervals. Then, you'll be able to plot your trigger events against the environmental variables. Add a trimmer to each analog input so you can tweak the values without having to reprogram the chip.


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OfflineSolipsis
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Re: Microcontrolled Grow Habitat [Re: Bacchus]
    #23728738 - 10/11/16 04:17 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Hi thanks very much for your response!

I have basic building materials for the unit and am working on it, but the microcontroller and components still have to be ordered. I did some homework on it already though, a lot seems doable but some things like driving a PWM fan seems like it can get pretty damn tricky, f*cking with the timer / frequency.

About dialing in the controls and sensors:

Would it be alright to just put the thermosister / temp sensor right on/in the sand, but not too close next to the heating cable? Or would I be undershooting it a little because the atmosphere that has to be heated with it is not taken into account? Humidity sensor which I was planning on getting integrated with the thermo sensor doesn't seem good to position on the sand though... so what about a thermo sensor in the sand and another thermo+humidity sensor higher up, then use some sort of algorithm to properly use both sensors to stay within bounds?

Since each level is only 0.5 m3 from what I calculate a PWM fan even when dialed way down to the starting voltage moves too much air so would have to be timed for intervals. Not a problem aside from the worry that the draft could make the higher-up thermo sensor too cool so that thing, so I would have to shield it from the draft.

I think for each level I will put a 120 mm fan on each side of the 60x70x120 cm habitats a little higher than the middle line, one blowing air in and the other venting out at the same speed. Vanes optional for more parallel air current..

Thnx for the tip about the trimmer but I will have to look into what you mean. (EDIT: ah i checked and get it i think: it's like a gain knob on a mixing panel)

Yeah I will test-drive it for a while to reach a steady state before I put any plants in there, then probably adjust slightly.

No idea yet how I'll want to regulate humidity. Not looking to invest in automatic humification right away, maybe later. Probably just try old fashioned ways...


Edited by Solipsis (10/11/16 04:28 PM)


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InvisibleBacchus
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Re: Microcontrolled Grow Habitat [Re: Solipsis]
    #23732794 - 10/12/16 11:08 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Don't over engineer it.

You may find that a single exhaust fan with passive intake is plenty. If it isn't satisfactory, then you can always add more capacity. As for putting a temperature sensor in the sand... I don't think that's going to be useful. The sand will quickly rise to something close to the temp of your heating element and then stay there. I'm sure you could get fancy with the calculus and derive the transfer function for your system. Of course, you'll also have to take the temperature gradient to the outside room as well.

But really... What's the point? All you really want to know is how to hit your target, and you get that by knowing when to turn off the element. If you can get that information by guess and check, then why introduce extra hardware and software complexity? You'll probably overshoot some times and have to turn on the exhaust to cool things off (set a maximum allowable temperature too!) and the overall temp will oscillate over time, but is that a big deal?

As for the fan control, are you using a fancy case fan with a dedicated PWM control line that specifies some high frequency? If you're just modulating the supply voltage, then you don't have to fuck with timer/counter control registers at all. All you have to worry about is the duty cycle (ratio of time spent high to time spent low). If you're using one of the 8-bit timer/counters, setting the fan to run at 50% speed is as simple as analogWrite(pinNumber, 128). If you want to run it at 75% speed, you would do analogWrite(pinNumber, 192). Full speed is 255.

When I talked about using a trimmer, I was shooting from the hip and not being exact in my descriptions. For any temperature or humidity value, your sensor will output some analog voltage. Imagine a Cartesian plane with temperature on the x-axis and voltage on the y-axis. Say, for example, you look at the datasheet for the sensor and see that it will output 1/2 of the supply voltage +/- 5% at the temperature that you're interested in. Say that value is 2.5 V. Instead of hard-coding that value like this:

If (analogValue < 2.0V) {
turn on heater
}
else if (analogValue > 2.3V) { //remember the overshoot problem
turn off heater
if (analogValue > 3V){ //TOO HOT!!!
turn on fan
}}

You should instead set a reference voltage (using a voltage divider) between two of the analog comparator pins and have your code check against that value that it grabs from the outside world. If you make one of the resistors in your voltage divider variable (aka trimmer or potentiometer), then you can change the behavior of your heater on/off function by just turning a little knob.


--------------------


Living on a no-Flash diet is way easier than you think. Give it a shot.


Edited by Bacchus (10/12/16 11:17 PM)


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OfflineKillaloting
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Re: Microcontrolled Grow Habitat [Re: Bacchus]
    #23732942 - 10/13/16 12:37 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

following :smile:


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OfflineSolipsis
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Re: Microcontrolled Grow Habitat [Re: Bacchus]
    #23736475 - 10/14/16 09:23 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Bacchus said:
Don't over engineer it.

You may find that a single exhaust fan with passive intake is plenty. If it isn't satisfactory, then you can always add more capacity. As for putting a temperature sensor in the sand... I don't think that's going to be useful. The sand will quickly rise to something close to the temp of your heating element and then stay there. I'm sure you could get fancy with the calculus and derive the transfer function for your system. Of course, you'll also have to take the temperature gradient to the outside room as well.

But really... What's the point? All you really want to know is how to hit your target, and you get that by knowing when to turn off the element. If you can get that information by guess and check, then why introduce extra hardware and software complexity? You'll probably overshoot some times and have to turn on the exhaust to cool things off (set a maximum allowable temperature too!) and the overall temp will oscillate over time, but is that a big deal?

As for the fan control, are you using a fancy case fan with a dedicated PWM control line that specifies some high frequency? If you're just modulating the supply voltage, then you don't have to fuck with timer/counter control registers at all. All you have to worry about is the duty cycle (ratio of time spent high to time spent low). If you're using one of the 8-bit timer/counters, setting the fan to run at 50% speed is as simple as analogWrite(pinNumber, 128). If you want to run it at 75% speed, you would do analogWrite(pinNumber, 192). Full speed is 255.

When I talked about using a trimmer, I was shooting from the hip and not being exact in my descriptions. For any temperature or humidity value, your sensor will output some analog voltage. Imagine a Cartesian plane with temperature on the x-axis and voltage on the y-axis. Say, for example, you look at the datasheet for the sensor and see that it will output 1/2 of the supply voltage +/- 5% at the temperature that you're interested in. Say that value is 2.5 V. Instead of hard-coding that value like this:

If (analogValue < 2.0V) {
turn on heater
}
else if (analogValue > 2.3V) { //remember the overshoot problem
turn off heater
if (analogValue > 3V){ //TOO HOT!!!
turn on fan
}}

You should instead set a reference voltage (using a voltage divider) between two of the analog comparator pins and have your code check against that value that it grabs from the outside world. If you make one of the resistors in your voltage divider variable (aka trimmer or potentiometer), then you can change the behavior of your heater on/off function by just turning a little knob.




I appreciate what you're saying and yes I'm quite sure overdoing can be counterproductive on top of being wasteful of time and effort..

But for example just modulating supply voltage apparently gets excess power converted to heat which burns up your fans fast. I have doubts that electronical fails will easily lead to a fire at these power levels but I think its much safer and perhaps more cost effective to avoid some of the quick and dirty solutions for that reason.

Yes I do think I understand the point that a trimmer allows you to control a resistor variable that you would otherwise have to hard-code.

I will certainly take your advice to heart that it's enough to dial in some high and low limits and let the system fluctuate in between.

It helps to get some insight on response to sensors in the sand for example. I thought perhaps if the heat capacity of the sand is so much bigger than the air, it would be representative of the system. Unfortunately a guideline is the necessary air displacement purely for gas exchange. So considering that my lower limit is the theoretical air displacement. That ventilation will put some limit on how much heat builds up as it is also lost. I guess the question was mostly about what is representative of the temperature. So maybe then it's better to have a thermo sensor above the sand that is not getting the direct heat radiation but also is not getting the full swing of the air current from ventilation.

Your suggestion to only build an air output ventilation is something I fantasized about myself! I think vorteces are much worse downstream (jets etc) and if you only have an output fan and air inlet is just regulated by pinholes or something, air currents are perhaps not that unstable inside the system AND the more limited air displacement is fine because the fans are usually too much anyway just like calculated earlier. :smile:

I promise, if I have info later I will share it as documentation. Not sure if it's much of a template for reproduction at different dimensions etc but who knows, it might.


Edited by Solipsis (10/14/16 09:26 AM)


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OfflineSolipsis
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Re: Microcontrolled Grow Habitat [Re: Solipsis] * 1
    #23952183 - 12/23/16 04:54 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Heya,

I'm making quite the progress now, it was a LOT of work to prepare the construction parts for assembly but I just started putting the parts together (not the electronics etc yet, just the growhouse with plastic lining like a heavily reinforced martha sort of)...

I got a question though: in the 2 drawers I will be putting sand and a heating cable for steady heating - I wanna at least be able to reach 25C with ventilation...

But one of the levels may be made particularly humid, which of course invites a lot of nasty contaminants etc. Will I have to seal off the sand with a thin plastic layer to keep nasty stuff from living in the humid sand or is there a chemical of some kind which will keep it sterile without causing harm to plants in pots on top of it??

Pics will follow, will post few good views but not all of the project yet..



Edited by Solipsis (12/23/16 04:57 PM)


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Microcontrolled Grow Habitat [Re: Solipsis]
    #23970050 - 12/31/16 07:05 AM (7 years, 29 days ago)

Nice craftsmanship :yesnod:

Curious how this goes. Is that a plant greenhouse?


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OfflineSolipsis
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Re: Microcontrolled Grow Habitat [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #23972362 - 01/01/17 05:50 AM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Thanks :laugh:

yes, it's for plants. temperature, light and ventilation will be controlled centrally and partially monitored via sensors. The plan is to control humidity as well in the future but I don't have that part figured out yet, just prepared for water and gunk etc..

I don't know if I will ever be growing mushrooms at a humidity the humid level in the greenhouse will also be facilitating plants. Like 95+ % .. it seems very high for my plants ;p


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Re: Microcontrolled Grow Habitat [Re: Solipsis]
    #23983981 - 01/05/17 01:43 PM (7 years, 24 days ago)



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Re: Microcontrolled Grow Habitat [Re: HighValley]
    #24011648 - 01/15/17 09:47 AM (7 years, 14 days ago)

Have you considered the raspberry pi?


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OfflineJohnS0N
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Re: Microcontrolled Grow Habitat [Re: Solipsis]
    #24185187 - 03/23/17 05:30 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

If controlling temperature and humidity is more or less all you need, then this one can work for your greenhouse. It's actually used as an egg incubator:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/XM-18-Controller-Incubator-Multifunctional-Automatic-Incubator-Industrial-incubators-Temperature-probe-Free-shipping/32359773193.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.9znM4K

Can't get cheaper than this... and it already has housing, so consider if spending time on the arduino/raspberry is worth it. Unless you want logs.

It comes with the temperature and humidity sensors. You can humidify your green house, heat it or cool it according to the specific aparatuses that you hook up to the system.

Furthermore there's a function for periodic "egg turning", but you can use that function for periodic gas exchange. Actually it just opens up the relay at the specific time that you instruct it too so you hook it up to your air pump and you have gas exchange. Along with temperature and humidity, it would be all you need for growing most mushrooms.


Edited by JohnS0N (03/23/17 05:33 AM)


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OfflineSolipsis
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Re: Microcontrolled Grow Habitat [Re: JohnS0N] * 1
    #24490042 - 07/17/17 06:31 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Sorry I really thought I had shared more than this and the thread ran its course!

I have long since finished the unit:



old pics though, much more here:
http://www.zwonko.com/design-2/project-eden
http://www.zwonko.com/lab/plant-nursery

it works well, though after the initial honeymoon I underestimated things and left the plants to their business too much. Gave them attention and admiration but was way too relaxed about abnormal signs which developed into fungal and insect problems.

Turns out I did not realize or forgot that overcrowding doesn't simply cause plants to grow slower, and even now that it is less crowded I realized that the ventilation needed to be upgraded to active intake on one side and outlet on the other side (the outlet fans are already visible).

I have several reasons for going with the arduino:
- highly modifiable which seems best for such a custom job which clearly takes a long time to 'dial in' in the subtler ways. No not meaning it's necessary per se functionally, but it is necessary for facilitating any ideas I have about expanding it (with a cheap tft screen to display conditions for example)..
- I make many things myself and don't like to shy away from a challenge like this
- It seemed like fun and it is
- Centralized control

ok so not necessarily reasons but excuses :wink:

I was prepared to make more conditions interdependent like the fact that ventilation drops the humidity. As it turns out humidifying the lower level wasn't really feasible anyway since you are venting your humidity so very much and all that evaporation causes it too cool down.

I still am afraid to use the heating with heating cable in sand as I obviously leave this thing running when I leave the house and don't know the risks with insulation of the cable by dry sand, water being involved (not normally but sometimes accidentally maybe) and the loops sticking out being a burning hazard etc...

Had various vague plans like blowing air past the heated spanned cable (and then possibly through wet perlite) like a radiator in a special compartment... or casting the heating cable in a sort of gellified analogue of concrete with less insulating properties, also fixating all the loops in it...
but I was not met with any support or understanding of others and didn't follow through with experiments

Raspberry pi is way overkill for this application even if you come up with excuses (though not all that many to justify it over Arduino), also it is apparently more difficult so less accessible for a novice.

The reason it's used in that pdf is because there one raspberry pi system controls many sensors while I don't have all that many.
Switched to Arduino Mega, mostly for accomodating the TFT screen

The HID i have installed in the top level (arid zone) now of 150W makes it warm even with the ventilation (dedicated fan cooling the lamp as well). The bottom level is fine at 21W anyway for the most part and my apartment is steadily heated by the elderly people surrounding it so I hardly have to heat it myself, summer or winter.

If I move though, might get back on that heating conundrum haha :laugh:


Edited by Solipsis (07/17/17 06:43 PM)


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InvisibleShroomymancer
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Re: Microcontrolled Grow Habitat [Re: Solipsis]
    #24729721 - 10/22/17 04:09 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Very nice setup. You should write an indestructible on this!


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