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InvisibleDualWieldRake
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Re: any experience with any of the named Trichocereus clones? [Re: spaceman101]
    #24451628 - 07/02/17 09:51 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

spaceman101 said:
Ok! This is something I would like to do and I'd imaging some others would enjoy it as well.


I have a few different genetics over here but my original Bridge which I do not believe has a name (or it just was traded as T. bridgesii) but is a true blue Bridge that I have been cloning for years.


Each clone is in different stages of growth from Old (huge pot) growth and has been on its own roots for somewhere around 5 years at this point and so on down the line to freshly rooted.


1 year, 2 year, 3 year and so on.

This could answer the age old question of "does time, size and time in the soil play any role in potency"?


I have MANY other experiments just as such with other types of trichos so I could continue for ages with this :smirk:


MY question that I'm trying to find answers for is what plays the largest roles in obtaining a potent plant other than the simple genetics atm.




I think (natural) selection will get you better genetics.
Then you need to make it grow well ofcourse, more plant produces more alkaloids
And so apparently this is only half the story...you could double it by stressing before consumption


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Invisiblespaceman101
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Re: any experience with any of the named Trichocereus clones? [Re: DualWieldRake]
    #24451666 - 07/02/17 10:04 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DualWieldRake said:
Quote:

spaceman101 said:
Ok! This is something I would like to do and I'd imaging some others would enjoy it as well.


I have a few different genetics over here but my original Bridge which I do not believe has a name (or it just was traded as T. bridgesii) but is a true blue Bridge that I have been cloning for years.


Each clone is in different stages of growth from Old (huge pot) growth and has been on its own roots for somewhere around 5 years at this point and so on down the line to freshly rooted.


1 year, 2 year, 3 year and so on.

This could answer the age old question of "does time, size and time in the soil play any role in potency"?


I have MANY other experiments just as such with other types of trichos so I could continue for ages with this :smirk:


MY question that I'm trying to find answers for is what plays the largest roles in obtaining a potent plant other than the simple genetics atm.




I think (natural) selection will get you better genetics.
Then you need to make it grow well ofcourse, more plant produces more alkaloids
And so apparently this is only half the story...you could double it by stressing before consumption





Yes, yes, yes! These are my experiments but who knows until they consume said plants what each difference makes. That's where the Chromograph (or however it's spelled) comes into play over my experiments.

Honestly I could NEVER bioassay each of these experiments of mine to develop what works and what does not. First off I only allow myself to trip when I'm in dyer need of some introspection so possibly 2 or 3 times a year at max. I'm not actually fond of each experience neither because the thoughts these compounds induce inside me are 90% of the time extremely painful.


I was hoping that amp could find a way to test Named clones as so to put the information out into the consumption/collector community as well as to attempt to test what actions can increase and decrease these alkaloids.

Do you know what I mean?


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Check out my Pollen Trade thread for spreading Good genetics far and wide :grin:

Great Vendors thread where we can discuss "Non Shroomery" Vendors that sell good products worth checking into :stoned:

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InvisibleDualWieldRake
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Re: any experience with any of the named Trichocereus clones? [Re: spaceman101]
    #24451731 - 07/02/17 10:34 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Haha yeah i see what you mean, wasn't quite suggesting to compare trips lol

I think this is a great initiative and very curious to see more lab results on this
Not sure how exactly the guy from nook his samples were tested (just that they were lab tested), seeing the doubling of potency in same plant (2.0 to 4.1%) may give some insights to some of your questions.

That's why i'm saying if you want a good comparison between genetics should try to factor out the other things.

Ofcourse the other factors may also have to do with genetics, as in a certain plant may have a much higher stress response to similar conditions..

If at all possible in terms of testing capacity i guess ideally you'd wanna sample the sample plant over time having received different treatments


Edited by DualWieldRake (07/02/17 10:35 AM)


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Invisiblespaceman101
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Re: any experience with any of the named Trichocereus clones? [Re: DualWieldRake]
    #24451783 - 07/02/17 11:06 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Mostly Harmless, Karode, Naum, Ferrel, Zap and other Master Cultivators and cactus consumers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Pop in here and share your Ideas on what Duel, I and DBG are conversing over.


We could really use you guys insight.


Someone else will have to message Ferrel because he has me on ignore but I'll try to get the others in here a little later.


--------------------
-------------

Check out my Pollen Trade thread for spreading Good genetics far and wide :grin:

Great Vendors thread where we can discuss "Non Shroomery" Vendors that sell good products worth checking into :stoned:

A few things I wanna get my hands on check it out and let me know if you have any of these:grin:


Need help getting started growing mushrooms
              Here's The Noob Forum


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Invisibleamp244
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Re: any experience with any of the named Trichocereus clones? [Re: spaceman101]
    #24452312 - 07/02/17 03:16 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

If you want to test the "stress it in the dark" theory, you would need to take 2 clones of the same size, rooted at the same time, and subject one to the dark treatment, and treat the other as you normally would. Then analyze the two samples for total alkaloid content. You could do that with isopropyl alcohol and PC's at home.

For now we should just focus on 5 named bridgesii clones that we want to test. We'll be sure keep track of the age of each cutting, as well as other parameters, in case we want to investigate any other hypotheses later.

As far as getting consistent samples, something like the tentative procedures below could be used:
dried core samples from 2" of de-spined, cut 2-4" from the branch tip would be taken, cut like star chips. The dried chips would be powderized and 5g of powder would be mixed with a yet to be determined amount of isopropyl alcohol. After 3 days of soaking, the alcohol will be strained through a coffee filter and collected in a dish, the plant material being discarded. The tincture will be loaded into a syringe for gas chromatography.

Pretty simple. I will use straight core samples, skin, flesh,  xylem; all blended together. Unless there is an argument for using one specific portion. I figure this would give one the best estimation of total content of the whole plant(less the roots).


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Invisiblespaceman101
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Re: any experience with any of the named Trichocereus clones? [Re: amp244]
    #24452397 - 07/02/17 03:44 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

My mind is saying there's something wrong with the method you described but I cannot quite put my finger on it for some reason. I'll have to see what I have but I do have some good Bridge crosses that maybe we could work with on down the road.


With your ability to test 'said' plants you could easily and single handedly clean up the low activity trich market and introduce well known to be Potent plants (hell possibly naming them yourself if seed grown by you or by the person that grew them) directly to the market with PROOF of their strength where MANY others have failed  :excited:



Removing the low activity 'named' plants from the market where they're desired due to their name and thought due to 'said' name to be potent and replacing them with entirely NEW freshly named but tested potent plants (whether pure breed or crossed) you could end this maybe/maybe not potent guess work.

I believe this may be possible if you do have the time, proper methods of full extraction and the materials constantly coming in from the members here wondering what exactly they have.

Maybe something to look into after your 5 named bridge clone experiment  :shrug:


This could be good or even bad if the government realizes the influx of purely potent clones up into the market and easy to get. I would imagine considering the time and effort you put into this your name will become as well know as Paul Staments is in the mushroom cultivation world.


Just think about it Bro  :bliss:


--------------------
-------------

Check out my Pollen Trade thread for spreading Good genetics far and wide :grin:

Great Vendors thread where we can discuss "Non Shroomery" Vendors that sell good products worth checking into :stoned:

A few things I wanna get my hands on check it out and let me know if you have any of these:grin:


Need help getting started growing mushrooms
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OfflineDGB
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Re: any experience with any of the named Trichocereus clones? [Re: amp244] * 1
    #24452407 - 07/02/17 03:47 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

As long as you carefully document every step and factor and repeat that exactly with every sample you should end up with useful data. It may not be directly comparable to the information we already have but if you have enough of it it can help paint a better picture.
So far most of the info in the graph has come from A/B extraction of the whole plant and then sending the crude extract to be tested for mescaline content thus letting us extrapolate the mescaline content of the whole plant per a unit of weight. 
We have to take into account other factors that might change the results if a whole plant isn't used, for example I would think from the same plant 3 inches of tip might come back stronger then 3 inches of middle section based sonly on the tip having more green skin surface area, if done by a punch biopsy would the results change based on were its taken from the plant, does the side that faces the sun vs the side that gets less sun matter at all? Growth tip vs base, I would believe that even the length of a punch biopsy would change the results a 3mm punch would by weight have more green skin and more mescaline by weight as opposed to a 6mm punch which would be more low content white flesh by weight, you would get different potency results from the same plant based just on that.
I just worry that when dealing with small samples and extrapolation out might result in warped results based on some un accounted for value, I like the idea of 1k whole plant process because that’s a lot of plant material and gives a lot to average any inconsistencies and it’s a whole plant extract, skin,pulp,core ect.
But again the argument can be made that if you do the exact same thing for each plant the results may not be comparable to other data but with enough data using that method  you can group that data and have it show a trend.
I think if something is done it should be standardized and determined to be the best method so if anyone else wants to add anything they can be sure it will fit in with the data we already have.


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InvisibleDualWieldRake
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Re: any experience with any of the named Trichocereus clones? [Re: DGB]
    #24452463 - 07/02/17 04:23 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Great points DGB


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Invisiblespaceman101
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Re: any experience with any of the named Trichocereus clones? [Re: DualWieldRake]
    #24453454 - 07/02/17 11:14 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DualWieldRake said:
Great points DGB



:whathesaid:  :excited:


--------------------
-------------

Check out my Pollen Trade thread for spreading Good genetics far and wide :grin:

Great Vendors thread where we can discuss "Non Shroomery" Vendors that sell good products worth checking into :stoned:

A few things I wanna get my hands on check it out and let me know if you have any of these:grin:


Need help getting started growing mushrooms
              Here's The Noob Forum


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InvisibleDualWieldRake
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Re: any experience with any of the named Trichocereus clones? [Re: spaceman101]
    #24461685 - 07/06/17 10:47 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Should make this a new thread btw


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OfflineDGB
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Re: any experience with any of the named Trichocereus clones? [Re: DualWieldRake]
    #24524027 - 08/02/17 02:11 AM (6 years, 5 months ago)

new info added and order changed



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InvisibleGrey Fox

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Re: any experience with any of the named Trichocereus clones? [Re: DGB]
    #24524520 - 08/02/17 10:05 AM (6 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks for updating this and keeping the info flowing.

You know what would be really interesting would be to test samples of these clones taken from the same garden from plant material of the same age. That sure would go a long way to rule out other variables that could affect the potency of the samples used.


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OfflineHeyowana
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Re: any experience with any of the named Trichocereus clones? [Re: Grey Fox]
    #24564440 - 08/19/17 06:46 AM (6 years, 5 months ago)

I feel for you DGB after reading this thread here and at Mycotopia. My rejects about equal the number of keepers with named clones. I can't fault bridgesii however. Since my last post here I've tried another 4 bridgesii. All slow boiled on slow combustion stove in excess of 20 hrs.

Bruce - 920g. Good trip. Good visuals as well. Kind of got lost in paranoia for a while. Actually more calm than Tig.

33 - 950g. Softer trip that didn't last as long as Bruce. Fourteen hours after taking it I could nod off. Still had good visuals but no paranoia on this one.

Con - 1005g. Surprised me how the extra boiling time made it more intense this year than the same weight boiled for about 16 hrs last year. Quite fiery in effect. Great visuals. Meltdown for a while where I couldn't walk for a few or more hours. Best one this year.

Eileen - 822g. I must conclude that my dosage wasn't enough or its hyped up too much. Very nice effect. Softer than Con and Bruce. Lasted about 10-12 hours. Visuals were good. Not great visuals like Con and Bruce. Tig has incredible visuals but I'm a bit scared of its potency.

Found a decent Icaro - 1200g or a bit more from memory. Less nausea than others with a more bridgesii type potency. Quite colourful trip unlike just feeling magical on the other Icaros without visuals to speak of.

Hope this helps. It would be great to get bioassays of these clones from someone else in a different part of my country or else where in the world. Keep up the good work. A lot of potency myths need to be dealt with in honest, open discussion.:smile:


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Offlinenolongrlurkin
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Re: any experience with any of the named Trichocereus clones? [Re: Heyowana]
    #24564454 - 08/19/17 07:00 AM (6 years, 5 months ago)

Beautiful work, friends! Hayowana you sound like a far out dude!


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OfflineHeyowana
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Re: any experience with any of the named Trichocereus clones? [Re: nolongrlurkin]
    #24564511 - 08/19/17 08:08 AM (6 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks. I have to agree with you about cactus being for the spirit. Wish I'd known about that when I was younger. It's the best medicine for my spirit. Back in the 1980's I tried some crappy san pedro. Did nothing so I dismissed it until a couple of years ago. Better late than never I guess. :smile:


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OfflineDGB
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Re: any experience with any of the named Trichocereus clones? [Re: Heyowana]
    #24565826 - 08/19/17 06:21 PM (6 years, 5 months ago)

i changed the name of the thread to better represent what its become, also added the most current graph to the top of the page with intent to continue to keep that updated there so its the first thing any new comers see without having to dig though the entire thread.


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Offlinenolongrlurkin
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Re: any experience with any of the named Trichocereus clones? [Re: DGB]
    #24565957 - 08/19/17 07:41 PM (6 years, 5 months ago)

Whos got a report on medicine man? I would imagine it to be pretty close to any other bridge, but like hayowana points out, every cut has its own personality.


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Re: any experience with any of the named Trichocereus clones? [Re: nolongrlurkin]
    #24565983 - 08/19/17 08:03 PM (6 years, 5 months ago)

I saw that on ebay.  Looked like a nice cut.  Hope to get one someday but not the price the latest medicine mam went for.:eek:


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OfflineHeyowana
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Re: any experience with any of the named Trichocereus clones? [Re: pinedownpioneer]
    #24566971 - 08/20/17 09:31 AM (6 years, 5 months ago)

Bogan clone which has been said to be pachanoi or macrogonus I have an anecdotal report for. Tried more than anticipated due to two other people who were going to be testers not showing up.

I didn't like my method which consisted in pounding the chunks as they boil with a potato masher. C/O Mycotopia. Turns it into sludge. Okay maybe for the boiling time they recommend which is only 4 hours. I boiled up 3.3 kilos for 16 hours until the skin was peeling away from the flesh. Not pounded at all is better for that length boil. I find once bridge, peruvianus and pachanoi get past 20 hrs boil they disintegrate anyway.

Left the reduced and strained solution in the fridge. Week later I divided it in half and tried it. So dose was about 1650g. Had a fairly heavy effect due to the quantity I think. Visuals were pretty good like bridgesii. Some paranoia about 6 hrs in. Slow to come on. I actually found a new patch where Psilocybe papuana grow in my place then posted the photos on shroomery before I was too wasted to use the computer.

I took the dose at 10 am back in April. It was still going with visuals past midnight. 2.00-3.00 am I was getting anxious about not sleeping and kept shaking. Started seeing a white light high up above the CEV if that makes much sense. It pulled me into it and then I felt calm. Woke up late next morning very stiff and feeling old.

Bogan was no better than the bridgesii I have tried at 900g-1000g. Like Bruce it seemed to have a strong shamanic element to the trip once it got underway.:heart:


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Invisiblejkz
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Re: any experience with any of the named Trichocereus clones? [Re: Heyowana]
    #24567012 - 08/20/17 09:54 AM (6 years, 5 months ago)

:popcorn:


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