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OfflineDGB
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Registered: 09/19/16
Posts: 437
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graph of alkaloid content of named Trichocereus clones and anecdotal potency reports. * 1
    #23708569 - 10/04/16 11:36 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

most recent graphs should be posted at the top of this thread with each new update.

as of this writing I do not personally preform any measurements, i simply gather the data from all over the net and try to centralize it in a single location. the data is not meant to be taken as guarantee of alkaloid levels in a cut but simply a rough approximation of how the known clones compare to each other, alkaloid content changes with many factors so the data just sets a high bar for each clone, potency of a particular cut may be more/less then what it was tested at but at least we establish that each cut is at least capable of being a certain level of potency.

This thread was named and intended as something slightly different but has changed since its creation, I’ll leave the original post just in case someone might find it useful.




(Anyone have any experience with any of the named clones and how they rate?  I know potency is a product of both good genetics and proper care so I wanted to eliminate the variable of genetics. Originally I wanted to grow bridgesii ss02 from seed as it apparently has less variation in potency then the other cacti but the prospect of having to wait 3 years before having a respectable size and then having to test each one only to have the potential of ending up with a bunch of weak plants I decided getting a clone would be better, but buying a noname clone off some auction site seemed like a crap shoot also, so if I could source a clone of a known potent strain it would theoretically  ensure the genetic side of the potency, it would at least ensure I didn’t get a genetic dud.

I'm not looking for exact measurement as I know only a few have actually been tested, im just looking to see if anyone has had experience with 1 or more named clones and how they would rank them in potency, so far from everything iv read most of the talk is about generic peruvianus vs pachanoi vs bridgesii but little to nothing about actual established clones, and when they do mention clones they usually just say "get a high quality clone" but don’t mention what clones are high quality.

I know juul's giant has supposedly tested high so the genetics seem to be there, but what about things like ss02? Its used in almost everything when making hybrids, and people keep referring to it as having "good genetics" does it actually have high potency potential or are they just talking about hardiness and fast growth? does everyone just use it because its been on the market reliably for years? Or is it actually potent enough to warrant the use?  Iv been reading the Trichocereus.net database on all the named clones out there so I figure if there so common and sought after and keep seeing many of them pop up on ethnobotanical sites they must be good and there are bound to be people out there that know about which ones are or arnt.
Basically if you had to choose a single known clone as your workhorse what would you choose? Or should I just grow bridgesii from seed?

I just want to ensure I don’t end up with a bunch of duds or low producers after putting all the time and energy into growing a patch.)


Edited by DGB (12/13/17 12:21 AM)


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Offlinenuentoter
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Re: any experience with any of the named Trichocereus clones? [Re: DGB]
    #23708618 - 10/05/16 12:09 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Just posting for similar interest


--------------------

The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know.  - @entheolove

"I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for"  - Georgia O'Keefe

I think the word is vagina


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InvisibleSpellbound
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Re: any experience with any of the named Trichocereus clones? [Re: nuentoter]
    #23708625 - 10/05/16 12:17 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Well all i can add is that even if you have ten of the same clone, they will vary in potency.
Bridgesii is often referred to as most reliable potency wise.

If you look up the trichocereus growers unite thread here -  https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18005647
theres many on there who all grow trichs. I do have many trich hybrids im growing, but have not tested any as theyre still seedlings i only started growing this year :shrug:

Im sure someone more knowledgable will chime in. But all i ever hear is you gotta try it to be sure as they can all vary even of the same type.


--------------------
Mescaline Tea - the one singular occasion of my entire life I cooked for 9 hours :lmafo:

The trick is to be yourself, in a world trying to make you like everyone else :heart:



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OfflineDGB
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Re: any experience with any of the named Trichocereus clones? [Re: Spellbound]
    #23708814 - 10/05/16 02:59 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Well yes but isn’t that down to the care side? I mean if you do have multiple clones all from the same mother plant then they all have the exact same genetics i.e. the same potential to reach a certain potency level right? I'm sure there would be variation in potency between clones of the same origin but it would be down to variations in things like sun/nutrient/water exposure ect. My goal is to identify a known clone that has "good genetics" a plant that has shown to be able with proper care to be a potent cactus, I want to eliminate the limiting factor of "bad genetics" from the equation. That way I know if I give it proper care it can deliver, as opposed to getting say a PC clone and no matter how well cared for it is, will never go above a certain potency simply because its genetics limits it to be low. 

I saw the trichocereus growers unite thread and there are a lot of people there who grow quite a collection on different stains, so at least I know there's a lot of people here who have access to these names clones, hopefuls some have tried one or two and can comment of the potential of each. the thread seemed more to be for people showing off their grows so I decided to create my own thread as asking there would be out of place.


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InvisiblejimmyBbuffet
Registered: 02/20/16
Posts: 558
Re: any experience with any of the named Trichocereus clones? [Re: DGB]
    #23709091 - 10/05/16 07:16 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

From my understanding "The Mallacht Cut" and "OTB" are both serious stuff.


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OfflineDGB
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Re: any experience with any of the named Trichocereus clones? [Re: jimmyBbuffet]
    #23710450 - 10/05/16 04:29 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Thread with similar content.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21326744

someone mentioned SS02, Psycho.0 are potent strains.

Also bioassay is just a fancy way of saying "take some" or "try it" right?


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InvisiblejimmyBbuffet
Registered: 02/20/16
Posts: 558
Re: any experience with any of the named Trichocereus clones? [Re: DGB]
    #23711801 - 10/05/16 11:28 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah, "taste it" basically. Generally one could assume more bitter is more better as far as alkaloids go.


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OfflineDGB
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Registered: 09/19/16
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Re: any experience with any of the named Trichocereus clones? [Re: jimmyBbuffet]
    #23711833 - 10/05/16 11:43 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

p0stij said:
Yeah, "taste it" basically. Generally one could assume more bitter is more better as far as alkaloids go.




so theoretically if i were to get a cuttings or grow a bunch of seeds i would just nick them one by one and propagate whatever is the most bitter?


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OfflineSpanishfly
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Re: any experience with any of the named Trichocereus clones? [Re: jimmyBbuffet] * 1
    #23714078 - 10/06/16 06:51 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

p0stij said:
Yeah, "taste it" basically. Generally one could assume more bitter is more better as far as alkaloids go.



BITTER is BETTER !!!!


--------------------
I am currently BANNED from using Private Messages - so can anyone who wants to contact me do it via my Journal thread.  Link is https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23831115

Maybe some mod or whatever might think this has now been long enough.


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OfflineDGB
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Re: any experience with any of the named Trichocereus clones? [Re: Spanishfly]
    #23714960 - 10/07/16 01:51 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

ill keep that in mind but iv read conflicting about the bitter test. some are saying its a reliable indicator while others are saying its bunk.


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Offlinenuentoter
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Re: any experience with any of the named Trichocereus clones? [Re: DGB]
    #23715199 - 10/07/16 05:56 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I think it is a general indication, but genetics of taste of fruiting body can sometimes over power the bitterness? I do not doubt one but though the bitter taste of alkaloids, holds true almost anywhere you look.


--------------------

The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know.  - @entheolove

"I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for"  - Georgia O'Keefe

I think the word is vagina


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OfflineSpore Ninja
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Registered: 10/25/16
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Re: any experience with any of the named Trichocereus clones? [Re: jimmyBbuffet]
    #23785616 - 10/30/16 02:11 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

p0stij said:
From my understanding "The Mallacht Cut" and "OTB" are both serious stuff.




Hmmm..seems those are the most expensive ones too..probably just a coincidence...
His FB page looks new- anyone know his background or history??


Been thinking about cropping some cactus, and I'm also wondering about reliable. proven genetics. So this is an old school tag. ( is there a way to bookmark or subscribe to threads here?)


--------------------
I'm interested in Dr. Pollock's work and his (especially older) strains.
Anyone have pix of his Shroommobile RV??

PSA: Protonmail offers free, encrypted email hosted in privacy loving Switzerland.
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OfflineStupendous-Yappi
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Re: any experience with any of the named Trichocereus clones? [Re: Spore Ninja]
    #23785769 - 10/30/16 02:54 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Spore Ninja said:
... is there a way to bookmark or subscribe to threads here?




At the bottom of posts, there's "Post Extras" with a 'remind me' button to subscribe. At the bottom of the page there's "[ Toggle Favorite" to add to your favorites/bookmarks.


--------------------


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InvisibleGreenFingers
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Re: any experience with any of the named Trichocereus clones? *DELETED* [Re: Spore Ninja]
    #23785900 - 10/30/16 03:27 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

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OfflineSpore Ninja
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Re: any experience with any of the named Trichocereus clones? [Re: DGB]
    #23787263 - 10/30/16 11:46 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

DGB said:
ill keep that in mind but iv read conflicting about the bitter test. some are saying its a reliable indicator while others are saying its bunk.



The active alkaloids in cactus should react with the Marquis reagent test to give a bright orange color....not sure how much the color can reveal the potency though. It might be more of a 'yes/no' result.

Looks like the test kits are available on Amazon now... lol.. $5-$15.


--------------------
I'm interested in Dr. Pollock's work and his (especially older) strains.
Anyone have pix of his Shroommobile RV??

PSA: Protonmail offers free, encrypted email hosted in privacy loving Switzerland.
Red Phone / Signal offer free encrypted phone calls and texting between users.

All of these programs are available free for PC and Android or apple and are available in the respective stores or online by googling the names.
Stay safe out there!

The Electronic Freedom Foundation's review of text and messaging program's security is here>>> https://www.eff.org/node/82654


Edited by Spore Ninja (10/30/16 11:48 PM)


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Invisibleferrel_human
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Re: any experience with any of the named Trichocereus clones? [Re: Spanishfly]
    #23787327 - 10/31/16 12:25 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Spanishfly said:
Quote:

p0stij said:
Yeah, "taste it" basically. Generally one could assume more bitter is more better as far as alkaloids go.



BITTER is BETTER !!!!




Coming from the old man. Solidifies my reasoning. :grampofapproval:


--------------------
Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely.
-Karode


Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade


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OfflineSpore Ninja
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Re: any experience with any of the named Trichocereus clones? [Re: ferrel_human]
    #23788275 - 10/31/16 11:30 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ferrel_human said:
Quote:

Spanishfly said:
Quote:

p0stij said:
Yeah, "taste it" basically. Generally one could assume more bitter is more better as far as alkaloids go.



BITTER is BETTER !!!!




Coming from the old man. Solidifies my reasoning. :grampofapproval:



What about science??? :cool:
I wonder how much it costs to run a sample through a gas chromatograph or mass spectrum analysis?
Surely here's a lab that will analyze samples for us?


--------------------
I'm interested in Dr. Pollock's work and his (especially older) strains.
Anyone have pix of his Shroommobile RV??

PSA: Protonmail offers free, encrypted email hosted in privacy loving Switzerland.
Red Phone / Signal offer free encrypted phone calls and texting between users.

All of these programs are available free for PC and Android or apple and are available in the respective stores or online by googling the names.
Stay safe out there!

The Electronic Freedom Foundation's review of text and messaging program's security is here>>> https://www.eff.org/node/82654


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Invisibleferrel_human
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Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 16,320
Loc: Texas
Re: any experience with any of the named Trichocereus clones? [Re: Spore Ninja] * 1
    #23788289 - 10/31/16 11:36 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Man FUCK science! Taste it. Eat it. Live it. :acidcat:


--------------------
Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely.
-Karode


Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade


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OfflineSpore Ninja
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Re: any experience with any of the named Trichocereus clones? [Re: ferrel_human]
    #23789682 - 10/31/16 07:35 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ferrel_human said:
Man FUCK science! Taste it. Eat it. Live it. :acidcat:




I NEED NUMBERS!!! :takingnotes:


--------------------
I'm interested in Dr. Pollock's work and his (especially older) strains.
Anyone have pix of his Shroommobile RV??

PSA: Protonmail offers free, encrypted email hosted in privacy loving Switzerland.
Red Phone / Signal offer free encrypted phone calls and texting between users.

All of these programs are available free for PC and Android or apple and are available in the respective stores or online by googling the names.
Stay safe out there!

The Electronic Freedom Foundation's review of text and messaging program's security is here>>> https://www.eff.org/node/82654


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InvisibleGreenFingers
Exotic collector
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Registered: 02/01/14
Posts: 292
Re: any experience with any of the named Trichocereus clones? [Re: Spore Ninja]
    #23789843 - 10/31/16 08:42 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I'm surprised there aren't more accounts of popular clones that have been bioassied. For as popular as clone collecting is I would expect to see some more reviews on a few.


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