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qman
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Re: Is the grey matter of all self-dentified conservatives some sort of guano composite? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#23752247 - 10/19/16 02:55 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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qman said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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qman said: Why don't African nations just give their citizens money so the can consume more?
You do realize the consumers also have to be productive?
No one suggested giving money away.
If you pay people fairly, they'll be productive
Not true, they could be very productive, but if there's too many people who can do the same thing, the wage will not move higher.
Yes, it is true. You're now making a totally different irrelevant argument. If you paid Africans $10/hr, most would be very productive.
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qman said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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qman said: Productivity gains have enabled tens of millions of US citizens not to be productive while enjoying basic needs plus more for free.
It has nothing to do with productivity gains. It has to do with welfare policy, which hasn't gone up with productivity gains.
If you're nation isn't productive, it can NOT fund services such as welfare. 
Once again, you're making a totally different irrelevant argument. The claim was that welfare isn't keeping up with productivity; we already had welfare before our current productivity gains, and welfare benefits aren't going up with productivity.
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qman said: Why did so many socialist South American states fail to provide their social service promises? They weren't productive enough to be able to afford that expense.
Do you think money just grows on trees?
Are you high right now? Once again, you're making a totally different irrelevant argument. No one is claiming money grows on trees. Ballsalsa's original argument was "if consumers don't have any money, demand rapidly declines." The Ecstatic and I strongly agreed, but you appear to be arguing.
"If you pay African's $10 per hour, most would be very productive"
Relative to what? Doing what? Productive relative to someone in China making $1 per hour? Hell no. Your generalizations have no basis in reality.
"Welfare benefits aren't up with productivity"
In the last 100 years social benefits have been going up relative to productivity, we have food stamps, welfare, Medicaid, public housing, and many social welfare programs. Are you suggesting it hasn't keep up in recent (10) years? You might be correct.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Is the grey matter of all self-dentified conservatives some sort of guano composite? [Re: qman] 1
#23752563 - 10/19/16 04:57 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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qman said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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qman said:
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ballsalsa said: Consumer demand is what drives the economy, and if consumers don't have any money, demand rapidly declines.
You do realize the consumers also have to be productive?
If you paid Africans $10/hr, most would be very productive.
Relative to what? Doing what? Productive relative to someone in China making $1 per hour? Hell no. Your generalizations have no basis in reality.
Doing anything. If GM moves a plant to Africa and pays people there $10/hr, they'll get lots of very productive workers. I don't know why you think they wouldn't be as productive as Chinese workers making $1/hr. Racism?
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qman said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Welfare benefits aren't up with productivity
In the last 100 years social benefits have been going up relative to productivity, we have food stamps, welfare, Medicaid, public housing, and many social welfare programs. Are you suggesting it hasn't keep up in recent (10) years? You might be correct.
As always, let's look at the real world data. Here's a look at productivity over time:

And here's a look at real welfare benefits over time:

Do you now see that welfare isn't going up with productivity???
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (10/19/16 06:58 PM)
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qman
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Re: Is the grey matter of all self-dentified conservatives some sort of guano composite? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#23752638 - 10/19/16 05:19 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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qman said:
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ballsalsa said: Consumer demand is what drives the economy, and if consumers don't have any money, demand rapidly declines.
You do realize the consumers also have to be productive?
If you paid Africans $10/hr, most would be very productive.
Relative to what? Doing what? Productive relative to someone in China making $1 per hour? Hell no. Your generalizations have no basis in reality.
Doing anything. If GM moves a plant to Africa and pays people there $10/hr, they'll get lots of very productive workers. I don't know why you think they wouldn't be as productive as Chinese workers making $1/hr. Racism?
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qman said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Welfare benefits aren't up with productivity
In the last 100 years social benefits have been going up relative to productivity, we have food stamps, welfare, Medicaid, public housing, and many social welfare programs. Are you suggesting it hasn't keep up in recent (10) years? You might be correct.
As always, let's look at the real world data. Here's a look at productivity over time:

And here's a look at real welfare benefits over time:

Do you now see that welfare isn't going up with productivity???
"I don't know why you think they wouldn't be as productive as Chinese workers making $1 per hr"?
Can they work 10 times better? You do know the meaning of the word productivity?
"Racism?"
No, economic commonsense.
"welfare isn't going up with productivity"
Yeah, I figured it didn't. I think inflation adjusted dollars also magnifies the outcome of that chart.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Is the grey matter of all self-dentified conservatives some sort of guano composite? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 2
#23752932 - 10/19/16 07:20 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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qman said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: If you paid Africans $10/hr, most would be very productive.
Relative to what? Doing what? Productive relative to someone in China making $1 per hour? Hell no. Your generalizations have no basis in reality.
Doing anything. If GM moves a plant to Africa and pays people there $10/hr, they'll get lots of very productive workers. I don't know why you think they wouldn't be as productive as Chinese workers making $1/hr.
Can they work 10 times better? You do know the meaning of the word productivity?
They don't need to work 10 times better to be equally productive. Here is how the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) defines "productivity":
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Labor productivity measures output per hour of labor.
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qman said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: As always, let's look at the real world data. Here's a look at productivity over time:

And here's a look at real welfare benefits over time:

Do you now see that welfare isn't going up with productivity???
Yeah, I figured it didn't. I think inflation adjusted dollars also magnifies the outcome of that chart.
No question. But real dollars are the only fair way to look at it. If people today get the same benefits as they did 50 years ago in nominal dollars, they'd be doing FAR worse.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Tipote
petty crook and transvestite


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Re: Is the grey matter of all self-dentified conservatives some sort of guano composite? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 2
#23754207 - 10/20/16 08:10 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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i'm doing it! i'm putting him on ignore!
good bye straw man king, lord of perpetual victimhood and double standards, destroyer of logic and reason, captain of things-going-over-his-head. You won't be missed.  
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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength
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Tipote
petty crook and transvestite


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Re: Is the grey matter of all self-dentified conservatives some sort of guano composite? [Re: Tipote] 1
#23754228 - 10/20/16 08:17 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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anyone seen the #RepealThe19th hashtag?
this is another thing i dont understand about some conservatives...
some want the 19th amendment repealed yet probably also criticise muslims for misogyny.
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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength
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qman
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Re: Is the grey matter of all self-dentified conservatives some sort of guano composite? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#23754548 - 10/20/16 11:15 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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qman said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: If you paid Africans $10/hr, most would be very productive.
Relative to what? Doing what? Productive relative to someone in China making $1 per hour? Hell no. Your generalizations have no basis in reality.
Doing anything. If GM moves a plant to Africa and pays people there $10/hr, they'll get lots of very productive workers. I don't know why you think they wouldn't be as productive as Chinese workers making $1/hr.
Can they work 10 times better? You do know the meaning of the word productivity?
They don't need to work 10 times better to be equally productive. Here is how the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) defines "productivity":
Quote:
Labor productivity measures output per hour of labor.
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: As always, let's look at the real world data. Here's a look at productivity over time:

And here's a look at real welfare benefits over time:

Do you now see that welfare isn't going up with productivity???
Yeah, I figured it didn't. I think inflation adjusted dollars also magnifies the outcome of that chart.
No question. But real dollars are the only fair way to look at it. If people today get the same benefits as they did 50 years ago in nominal dollars, they'd be doing FAR worse.
Yes, "Labor productivity- OUTPUT per hour and UNIT LABOR COSTS"
Paying someone 10 times the rate for the SAME output is not being productive in the market. So paying them $10 does NOT make them productive in many cases.
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qman
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Re: Is the grey matter of all self-dentified conservatives some sort of guano composite? [Re: Tipote]
#23754554 - 10/20/16 11:18 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tipote said: anyone seen the #RepealThe19th hashtag?
this is another thing i dont understand about some conservatives...
some want the 19th amendment repealed yet probably also criticise muslims for misogyny.
"some"
How many?
"criticize muslims for misogyny"
Got to defend that primitive ideology at all costs, right Tip?
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Is the grey matter of all self-dentified conservatives some sort of guano composite? [Re: qman] 2
#23754631 - 10/20/16 11:50 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Tipote said: anyone seen the #RepealThe19th hashtag?
this is another thing i dont understand about some conservatives...
some want the 19th amendment repealed yet probably also criticise muslims for misogyny.
"some"
How many?
"criticize muslims for misogyny"
Got to defend that primitive ideology at all costs, right Tip? 
Im sure the portion of trump supporters who want to repeal the 19th amendment is right on par with the portion of muslims who are jihadists.
--------------------
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Tipote
petty crook and transvestite


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Re: Is the grey matter of all self-dentified conservatives some sort of guano composite? [Re: qman] 2
#23754800 - 10/20/16 12:47 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Tipote said: anyone seen the #RepealThe19th hashtag?
this is another thing i dont understand about some conservatives...
some want the 19th amendment repealed yet probably also criticise muslims for misogyny.
"some"
How many?
some
Quote:
"criticize muslims for misogyny"
Got to defend that primitive ideology at all costs, right Tip? 
huh?? i've never said we shouldn't criticise anyone, or religions, or cultures etc..
my point was that they might be pointing the finger elsewhere while being guilty of misogyny themselves.
whats funny too is that you have a primitive ideology of us vs them alllll the time. Its similar to the Islam vs everyone else that some islamic extremists exhibit.
--------------------
War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength
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qman
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Re: Is the grey matter of all self-dentified conservatives some sort of guano composite? [Re: Tipote]
#23754890 - 10/20/16 01:29 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tipote said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Tipote said: anyone seen the #RepealThe19th hashtag?
this is another thing i dont understand about some conservatives...
some want the 19th amendment repealed yet probably also criticise muslims for misogyny.
"some"
How many?
some
Quote:
"criticize muslims for misogyny"
Got to defend that primitive ideology at all costs, right Tip? 
huh?? i've never said we shouldn't criticise anyone, or religions, or cultures etc..
my point was that they might be pointing the finger elsewhere while being guilty of misogyny themselves.
whats funny too is that you have a primitive ideology of us vs them alllll the time. Its similar to the Islam vs everyone else that some islamic extremists exhibit.
Not wanting to live with third world leeches that have a primitive ideology is "you have a primitive ideology of us vs them"?
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Tipote
petty crook and transvestite


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Re: Is the grey matter of all self-dentified conservatives some sort of guano composite? [Re: qman] 4
#23755001 - 10/20/16 02:08 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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qman said: Not wanting to live with third world leeches that have a primitive ideology is "you have a primitive ideology of us vs them"? 
no.. i was pointing out that your "primitive vs sophisticated" narrative is primitive in itself and its something you share with islamo-fascists in their islam vs the world narrative
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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength
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qman
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Re: Is the grey matter of all self-dentified conservatives some sort of guano composite? [Re: Tipote]
#23755139 - 10/20/16 02:50 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tipote said:
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qman said: Not wanting to live with third world leeches that have a primitive ideology is "you have a primitive ideology of us vs them"? 
no.. i was pointing out that your "primitive vs sophisticated" narrative is primitive in itself and its something you share with islamo-fascists in their islam vs the world narrative
No it's not, I do NOT care what they do in their homelands, I don't place judgment on them. They don't share that same non-judgment from a distance, they can't because of their religion.
I don't have any mission to visit their nations and show them the "truth", they can't say the same.
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Great Scott
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Re: Is the grey matter of all self-dentified conservatives some sort of guano composite? [Re: Tipote]
#23756229 - 10/20/16 09:29 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



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Re: Is the grey matter of all self-dentified conservatives some sort of guano composite? [Re: The Ecstatic] 2
#23757139 - 10/21/16 06:53 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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The Ecstatic said: You really dont.
And no one is bullying you. You're a terrible poker player and we're all getting tired of taking your money. We could easily continue robbing you blind, but more often than not a criticism is addended with a tip on how to blame the game better.
Now let me translate that analogy just in case:
You are bad at arguing. Nobody is "bullying" you over your positions, whatever they may be. We, fal in particular, are TRYING to teach how you how to convey them (and analyze others') in a logical manner.
Fal is a saint for being so patient with you. We WANT you to have the tools to have proper conversations here, but you refuse. 
I'm finding some gems, reading through this thread, since I have been banned for a little while.
What I find is, I was not off the mark at all, though I was particularly edgy that week. The arguments I see from the right are so simple minded, continuously embracing catchy soundbite type political jargon, instead of reasoning shit out for themselves.
There certainly are legitimate and powerful arguments against some left-wing positions (like the anti-vaccers, SJW's, and the anti-GMO crowd), and I have found them on occasion, even on this very forum. They are very few, and very far between. I am an open minded person, and I want to hold the best position possible, but the right wing alternatives hold very little water, on most occasions. The sound arguments that can be made, are generally not made here, or by right-wing folks anywhere I go. They have quick and dirty, simple "answers" to complex problems.
As our economy approaches another economic downturn, I wonder how much longer they can go on blaming the 'left-wing socialist economic practices of the American government'. I suppose Obama is a Socialist, after all, right HU? lmao (You're still blocked, no need to respond)
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Is the grey matter of all self-dentified conservatives some sort of guano composite? [Re: qman]
#23757150 - 10/21/16 07:01 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: "I don't know why you think they wouldn't be as productive as Chinese workers making $1 per hr"?
Can they work 10 times better? You do know the meaning of the word productivity?
"Racism?"
No, economic commonsense.
... economic common sense? How is this a matter of economics?
This answer is bewildering to me. It sounds like racism. Please elaborate.
Quote:
"welfare isn't going up with productivity"
Yeah, I figured it didn't. I think inflation adjusted dollars also magnifies the outcome of that chart.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Is the grey matter of all self-dentified conservatives some sort of guano composite? [Re: Bigbadwooof] 1
#23757154 - 10/21/16 07:03 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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If I say that I'm not a Christian, but spout bible verses to back up every point I make, would you not call me on my bullshit?
You would say 'Yes, yes you are a religious fucking idiot, woof!'
If someone else says they're not a racist, but says racist shit all the time... well, you see where I'm going with this.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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qman
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Re: Is the grey matter of all self-dentified conservatives some sort of guano composite? [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#23757283 - 10/21/16 08:20 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
qman said: "I don't know why you think they wouldn't be as productive as Chinese workers making $1 per hr"?
Can they work 10 times better? You do know the meaning of the word productivity?
"Racism?"
No, economic commonsense.
... economic common sense? How is this a matter of economics?
This answer is bewildering to me. It sounds like racism. Please elaborate.
Myself and Fal were debating over (labor) productivity.
If Mexican workers in Mexico are working for Ford at a rate of $5 per hour that an American workers were doing the same output for $50 per hour, they are much more PRODUCTIVE.
This has NOTHING to do with race, this is about economics.
"It sounds like racism"
Because you guys are always on a racism hunt, you guys might want to ask yourselves why that's your natural instinct. 
You do realize people that accuse others of unjustifiable racism are the actual racists?
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Is the grey matter of all self-dentified conservatives some sort of guano composite? [Re: qman]
#23757762 - 10/21/16 11:32 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: You do realize people that accuse others of unjustifiable racism are the actual racists?
'I'm not a racist, you are!'
Sounds racist.
Also... I don't think productivity is measured by profit margins. I could be wrong though.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (10/21/16 11:33 AM)
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Great Scott
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Re: Is the grey matter of all self-dentified conservatives some sort of guano composite? [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#23757839 - 10/21/16 11:56 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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