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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Taxes [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23721512 - 10/09/16 09:07 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Except the idea itself came from a Republican Governor.




Yes,  republicans can be liberal as well, were you not aware of that?




Yes, are you?

You're the one who claimed it had no Republican support. While true for the ACA specifically, its origins are wholly Republican.




Of course, I single out liberal republicans all the time, (it's usually just ignored here because it don't fit the "stereotype" some here want to pidgeon hole me in)

The origins are republican, not surprising, the GOP isn't much conservative anymore, look at the bush support for Hildabeast, it's disgusting

Just another example of republicans acting like democrats, I often wonder why we call them "opposition parties" anymore,

Another great reason to vote Trump, break up the damn Washington oligarchy


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Taxes [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #23721551 - 10/09/16 09:29 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Hows he gonna do that?


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Taxes [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #23721606 - 10/09/16 09:59 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah, people seem to think that if Trump is elected, he can just fire everyone in Washington.  That's not quite how it works.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Taxes [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23721659 - 10/09/16 10:20 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

You're Fired!


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Taxes [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23721951 - 10/09/16 12:07 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Yeah, people seem to think that if Trump is elected, he can just fire everyone in Washington.  That's not quite how it works.




It's a good start, my ch better than Hildabeast who will for sure continue fucking the middle class and keep up the war machine that liberals "claim"  to oppose

Trump has been very vocal about limited intervention and not fighting everyone else's wars


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Taxes [Re: hostileuniverse] * 1
    #23725514 - 10/10/16 03:12 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

There are really few flaws in peoples arguments.  Some people believe lower taxes on corporations bring increased investiment and revenue, as I do.  Some believe lower corporate taxes are a 'giveaway'

I don't believe that, because a dollar taken out of the private economy is a dollar not invested in growth.  I also believe a big part of the 'corporate taxes are a giveaway' is merely envy by people who don't make much money.

With that said, I believe the one thing that is really neglected is that corporations PAY NO TAXES.  It is all passed along in the cost of goods or services the corporations provide, and the consumer pays it. 

Secondly, a corporate tax, which raises the cost of a product, makes a product more expensive on the GLOBAL market. 


Why tax a company that exports products? People bitch about subsidized foreign products but turn around and say "Tax the fuck out of our companies"  Why?  So we can put an export tax on our products?  That's what it comes down to.  make our shit cheap, so we can sell it overseas, and bingo! gROWTH!!!!  hOW Aboout that?


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Offlineqman
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Re: Taxes [Re: starfire_xes]
    #23725593 - 10/10/16 03:41 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
There are really few flaws in peoples arguments.  Some people believe lower taxes on corporations bring increased investiment and revenue, as I do.  Some believe lower corporate taxes are a 'giveaway'

I don't believe that, because a dollar taken out of the private economy is a dollar not invested in growth.  I also believe a big part of the 'corporate taxes are a giveaway' is merely envy by people who don't make much money.

With that said, I believe the one thing that is really neglected is that corporations PAY NO TAXES.  It is all passed along in the cost of goods or services the corporations provide, and the consumer pays it. 

Secondly, a corporate tax, which raises the cost of a product, makes a product more expensive on the GLOBAL market. 


Why tax a company that exports products? People bitch about subsidized foreign products but turn around and say "Tax the fuck out of our companies"  Why?  So we can put an export tax on our products?  That's what it comes down to.  make our shit cheap, so we can sell it overseas, and bingo! gROWTH!!!!  hOW Aboout that?




Yet, corporations have trillions in cash and haven't been reinvesting it back into the company, there's not a supply problem, there's a demand problem. That's why corporations have been hoarding cash for the past decade.

Investors don't want management to increase production with an economy that barely grows at 1%, that could cost the company its very existence.

"passed along in the cost of goods"

Not in a competitive market place, smaller profit margins are the most likely outcome.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Taxes [Re: qman] * 1
    #23725928 - 10/10/16 05:37 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Yet, corporations have trillions in cash and haven't been reinvesting it back into the company, there's not a supply problem, there's a demand problem.



Excellent point.  Moving those trillions into the hands of consumers would spur demand.  Now, how can that be accomplished...  :smirk:


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Taxes [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 2
    #23725950 - 10/10/16 05:45 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Its almost like the public have a mechanism for redistributinc wealth in a progressive, bracketed way.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Taxes [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #23725955 - 10/10/16 05:46 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

maybe we should give tax breaks to the wealthiest people and hope that they trickle a few crumbs down to the rest of us.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Taxes [Re: ballsalsa] * 2
    #23725959 - 10/10/16 05:47 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

And when it doesnt, give them more to hypothetically accelerate the trickling.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Taxes [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 2
    #23725991 - 10/10/16 05:56 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
Yet, corporations have trillions in cash and haven't been reinvesting it back into the company, there's not a supply problem, there's a demand problem.



Excellent point.  Moving those trillions into the hands of consumers would spur demand.  Now, how can that be accomplished...  :smirk:




I think some sort of royalty stream from US corporations for citizens, either at the State or Federal level. http://www.reuters.com/article/alaska-payment-fund-idUSL1N11N03U20150917

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Permanent_Fund

I would say to companies like Ford, GM, Apple, Nike, ect.  If you want to ship jobs out of the US, go ahead.  Not only will there be economic tariffs, US citizens get a percentage of your profits.

Of course the very wealthy would not be eligible for this program.  I say fuck having the government collecting corporate/individual taxes and then trying to "redistribute" the proceeds, this would be direct deposit into peoples bank accounts.

Something has to be done to save "capitalism" from imploding on itself, maybe capitalists would even be receptive to this policy.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Taxes [Re: qman]
    #23726012 - 10/10/16 06:06 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
Yet, corporations have trillions in cash and haven't been reinvesting it back into the company, there's not a supply problem, there's a demand problem.



Excellent point.  Moving those trillions into the hands of consumers would spur demand.  Now, how can that be accomplished...  :smirk:




I think some sort of royalty stream from US corporations for citizens, either at the State or Federal level. http://www.reuters.com/article/alaska-payment-fund-idUSL1N11N03U20150917

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Permanent_Fund

I would say to companies like Ford, GM, Apple, Nike, ect.  If you want to ship jobs out of the US, go ahead.  Not only will there be economic tariffs, US citizens get a percentage of your profits.

Of course the very wealthy would not be eligible for this program.  I say fuck having the government collecting corporate/individual taxes and then trying to "redistribute" the proceeds, this would be direct deposit into peoples bank accounts.

Something has to be done to save "capitalism" from imploding on itself, maybe capitalists would even be receptive to this policy.




Norway does something similar with their hybrid public/private national oil trust fund


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Taxes [Re: ballsalsa]
    #23727464 - 10/11/16 06:14 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

You wanna put "more money into the hands of the middle class"? Lower their fucking taxes!

We already have almost the worlds highest corporate tax rate, how's that working out for the middle class?


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Taxes [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #23728101 - 10/11/16 12:01 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

How many people in the middle class have corporations?

How do you even define the middle class? 50 years ago middle class was business owners, general practitioners, engineers.

Now it seems middle class is anyone who isnt rich or who isnt kept alive on government subsidy.



Either way, the corporate tax rate is a red herring because almost no corporations pay anywhere near that number. Otherwise, corporations like Boeing and GE wouldnt have NEGATIVE effective tax rates.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Taxes [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #23728199 - 10/11/16 12:53 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
You wanna put "more money into the hands of the middle class"? Lower their fucking taxes!



Then who pays for schools, roads, police, etc???

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
We already have almost the worlds highest corporate tax rate, how's that working out for the middle class?



And it's already been pointed out to you that we don't have anywhere near the highest effective corporate tax rate in the world, because most companies don't pay that much.


--------------------
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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Taxes [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23728554 - 10/11/16 03:01 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Because a handful of mega corporations get out of paying a higher tax rate, most do not, most cannot.

The mega corporations slant that "effective tax rate"


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Taxes [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #23728677 - 10/11/16 03:49 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
The mega corporations slant that "effective tax rate"



THAT'S the problem.  Not that the tax rate is too high.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Taxes [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23730205 - 10/12/16 04:13 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
The mega corporations slant that "effective tax rate"



THAT'S the problem.  Not that the tax rate is too high.




The second highest in the world isn't high enough for you?

:facepalm:


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Taxes [Re: hostileuniverse] * 1
    #23730617 - 10/12/16 09:21 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

For the third time now, he's not advocating raising the corporate tax rate.


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