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hTx
(:



Registered: 03/27/13
Posts: 5,724
Loc: Space-time
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the UFO phenom : Seeking Progress 1
#23705958 - 10/04/16 07:58 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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As I've been embracing a much more agnostic attitude about generally everything I can in recent years, this is one subject I felt could benefit a lot from the 'maybe' logic of generalized agnosticism, and perhaps we can get on to something objective and practical with regards to explaining the UFO phenomena...Until then, I'll help destroy any belief you have surrounding the subject so that you too will remain an agnostic pioneer on the fringe of human experience.
Throughout written history, various people have reported seeing unidentified flying objects, and this experience as a whole hasn't changed much... The flying objects are still officially unidentified and people around the world are still seeing them.
What has changed are the unofficial identities humans give(gave) to the officially unidentified.
Before the era of science fiction and psychedelic Renaissance, and especially before Roswell, many people who saw UFOs would identify them as being religiously relevant. Angels, demons, etc.
The "miracle" at Fatima, for example, was basically a massive UFO-sighting in the year 1917 before people had started taking ideas about aliens even halfway seriously, and tens of thousands of people claimed to all witness a massive light (UFO) moving around erratically, changing size/luminosity, changing speeds dramatically, etc and this event was said to convert hundreds of thousands of people to Catholicism, which of course was the ruling religion/socially accepted belief system at the time and place.
If such a massive sighting were to have happened in say the 60s or 70s, I doubt very many would have converted to Catholicism, and instead would be filling in the blanks of the mystery else where; perhaps and most likely through the revived lenses of science and popular belief of the time. And the UFO which was alleged to be "Mother Mary" by the Catholic church would have been alleged to be a "Mother Ship" hosting aliens from another world.
The funny thing is its basically the same mystery and the same explanation, regardless of the little details. Most "explanations" surrounding the phenomena follow the typical archetypal pattern of 'mysterious beings doing mysterious things'.
Even while the seemingly more modern explanation of 'aliens from another world' seems like the most logical one, especially given knowledge of the vastness of the universe, the ubiquity of other planets and galaxies, the potential of technology and overall likelihood of life on other planets, it could be just as detrimental, just as blinding, and just as much a reach as a religious explanation.
I say this because, both aliens and "mother mary" remain as mysterious as the UFO itself, any explanation regarding this phenomena is based mostly on pure belief and nobody seems to be making any objective progress with regards to proving either or any explanation right or wrong..even though we've been intimately involved with this phenomena since before recorded history. Robert Anton Wilson said "Belief is the death of intelligence." And this is one instance where I think the statement really applies. Its easy to get caught up in the wrong belief system with things of mysterious nature.
Both explanations (really any explanation) do basically nothing in terms of providing an actual explanation or practicality. Instead, they serve to 'woo' the minds curiosity and dissatisfaction with an unknowable mystery.
It seems much like how Becker would describe religion with regards to death anxiety: It serves to 'woo' the minds curiosity and dissatisfaction with an unknowable mystery.
Ultimately, it seems the only objective thing anyone can say about the phenomena is that it happens and it is an experience not wholly based in hallucination (meaning multiple people can and do witness the same thing at the same time).
I used to believe like many others that aliens from many different worlds are visiting and interfering with our world and that this was the only logical explanation given the ubiquity of the UFO experience throughout history and my own experiences.
Now, I see that point of view as just that, a point of view; and perhaps a point of view that is keeping most of us deaf, dumb, and blind to objective, factual and practical progress in this area.
P.S. -- my current suspicions/experience on the matter --
I've seen a few UFOs growing up but nothing really major until relatively recently. Within the last 5-6 years the sightings/experiences have grown in intensity and "wow" factor.
My recent experiences with UFOs are painting a picture vastly different than "mysterious beings doing mysterious things" all though that feeling is definitely still there, it seems to be more connected to the individual(s) experiencing the phenom than say simply witnessing strange lights in the sky as a non-influential bystander.
Its as if UFOs are a projection of our own consciousness and/or are or can be deeply connected/sensitive to individuals witnessing them. I've seen what seems like vastly intelligent and social behavior in the more recent sightings, with multiple UFOs reacting to my wifes and i conversations about them (even thoughts) instantaneously while seemingly being miles away.
My wife and I love star-gazing, especially while tripping or smoking herb and I have noticed a pattern: if we are just star-gazing and smoking ganja or sober, we may very rarely catch a UFO or two hanging out in our area for a short period of time or seemingly far above, very faint and wispy.
If we are tripping or rolling and star-gazing, its almost a guarantee that we will get some sort of intense shared UFO experience/show that can last hours and is mind-blowing, especially if we get into a philosophical discussion.
I've had three major experiences within the past two years that were so intimate that had I been the only witness, it would have been easily explainable as subjective hallucination, flashback, or just generally not really happening.
The first major experience involved several UFOs floating around and seemingly playing with each other/our field of vision. I made a joke out-loud exclaiming something a long the lines of "You can abduct me, just don't probe me bro!" and as soon as I said that one of the UFOs slowly began flying straight over my head. My wife became afraid as the UFO aligned itself over me/us and protested something a long the lines of "are you fucking serious, is this really happening, please no" to which the UFO immediately responded and moved out of its alignment with us, and shortly thereafter we watched them jet off at an incredible speed into space as the sun rose.
My wife gets afraid when things get that intense, but I feel a strange comfort when they are around and feel like I want to know more. This is markedly different from my attitude a couple years ago with regards to UFOs in which such sightings would have easily terrified me, likely believing 'greys' were spying on me and trying to probe me or something else entirely sinister.
These past few experiences it seems I'm really making progress into the actuality behind the phenomena, without fear, and whatever is on the other-side seems to be responding in a more and more positive manner. It also seems I can near-reliably have an UFO experience if I take even small amounts of psychedelics and star-gaze. Its these experiences plus the recent reading of many similar experiences involving psychedelics that lead me away from the simple "aliens from outerspace" explanation.
If you want more details feel free to PM me or we could openly discuss whatever on this thread. Its one reason I'm starting this thread, I wonder if any of you can relate.
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
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Re: the UFO phenom : Seeking Progress [Re: hTx]
#23706006 - 10/04/16 08:38 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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That was well written. you have great rapport with these things
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quinn
some kinda love


Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 6,799
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Re: the UFO phenom : Seeking Progress [Re: hTx]
#23706057 - 10/04/16 09:00 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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i will say this htx, i believe in UFOs. they are seen all the time and do you know why? because they are unidentified flying objects. not being able to identify a thing doesnt mean much really, i see unidentified people and objects every day... to leap from that to any kind of inference about the nature of the object itself is folly...
especially in this day and age when there is so much man made crap floating around, from kites to balloons, to drones, to planes, to satellites..
(if people were witnessing alien space craft in any documented way, they would not be seeing UFOs but alien space craft... also for this reason i think your connection between alien and past christian experiences was the weakest part of your argument!)
i will also say i believe in aliens... i mean there is prob a good chance there are other lifeforms somewhere for all i know. but the chances that those lifeforms are in any way complex, existing remotely near us and also during the infintesimal few hundred thousand years that humans will exist for, seems incredibly unlikely to me.
regarding your experiences:
the realest thing i think you said was
Quote:
Its as if UFOs are a projection of our own consciousness
i totally get this. i remember as a kid i used to lie awake and think i could hear pop songs and i would focus until they became louder and louder. i started playing games to see if i could summon any song that i felt like and you know what? i could, and they often seemed real like they were playing just outside my window.
or after i watch a horror movie suddenly im on edge and start hearing strange noises in the night or noticing strange shapes.
or now that i am looking to buy a van i notice vans everywhere on the road wherever i go..
all part of the same sort of thing imo. it has been proven that alien space ship sightings go up every time a block buster movie comes out.
the mind and what it is primed to expect informs what it experiences and how it interprets them, and that is a pretty weird truth imo, extraterrestrials or not!
-------------------- dripping with fantasy
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Re: the UFO phenom : Seeking Progress [Re: hTx]
#23706090 - 10/04/16 09:12 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Nice post, hTx. 
As Robert Anton Wilson and others have noted, if one really looks at the UFO evidence objectively, it is very difficult (if not preposterous) to see these "contactees" as merely having random, disjointed hallucinations. There is an ordering, a hierarchy of patterns involved with what these people report. Moreover, frequently the phenomenon is shared by multiple people (sometimes up to hundreds of them). You've got to admit, at the very least, that some coherent phenomenon is causing a whole crowd of people to "hallucinate" the same thing simultaneously. The dogmatic materialist's insistence that these happenings are merely delusional and should be shunted off to the garbage pile of worthless information just doesn't fly at all when one looks into the actual evidence -- trustworthy compilations of evidence by impartial and intelligent investigators. There is clearly something more going on than rednecks rambling to tabloid reporters. Whether we need ESP, or the Jungian unconscious, or synchronicity, or non-local transmissions from deep space to explain these phenomena, who knows. (God knows most people aren't ready for that kind of thinking -- especially the dogmatic materialist). But there are orderly phenomena surrounding these UFO mysteries, and have been for centuries. There are patterns, and independently verified evidence of correlations. The question should not be "do you or do you not believe in aliens?" but rather "what is the causal factor in these seemingly disparate but definitively related UFO claims?" What is the psychological and neurological reality? Probably not what most people think...
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Re: the UFO phenom : Seeking Progress [Re: hTx] 1
#23706100 - 10/04/16 09:16 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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RAW would remind you not to forget to be on the lookout for UNFOs, too. Unidentified non-flying objects.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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hellno
Stranger


Registered: 09/30/16
Posts: 223
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black ops projects are the ones using ufo..
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hellno
Stranger


Registered: 09/30/16
Posts: 223
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Re: the UFO phenom : Seeking Progress [Re: hellno]
#23706160 - 10/04/16 09:32 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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if you're into ufo research star-gates and portals now that's what I believe the Nazi where doing and that nuclear reactor in Switzerland
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psilosalvia
Pirate




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Re: the UFO phenom : Seeking Progress [Re: hellno]
#23706416 - 10/04/16 11:01 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Amazing.
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“Damnation seize my soul if I give you quarters, or take any from you.” -Edward Teach.
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hTx
(:



Registered: 03/27/13
Posts: 5,724
Loc: Space-time
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Quote:
but rather "what is the causal factor in these seemingly disparate but definitively related UFO claims?" What is the psychological and neurological reality? Probably not what most people think...
Exactly, I don't think its what most people think it is at all, and keeping an open mind about everything in these types of categories and experiences is honestly a tough endeavor; as I point out in OP.and as was highlighted in an argument against a perception of OP.
But I feel if we can keep an open mind, these types of experiences may potentially further an objective, novel understanding of reality achievable not necessarily through observation but through realization.
Its only a feeling though. I've only recently challenged my own beliefs surrounding this phenomena to discover they were mostly belief.
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
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hTx
(:



Registered: 03/27/13
Posts: 5,724
Loc: Space-time
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Re: the UFO phenom : Seeking Progress [Re: hTx]
#23706543 - 10/04/16 11:43 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said: RAW would remind you not to forget to be on the lookout for UNFOs, too. Unidentified non-flying objects. 

Quote:
quinn said: the mind and what it is primed to expect informs what it experiences and how it interprets them, and that is a pretty weird truth imo, extraterrestrials or not!
Bam.
And developing the ability to keep an open mind and remembering how influential interpretations of reality can be is the best defense against culturally primed expectations.
Its cliche but its true.
It's also tough to realize.
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
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zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
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Re: the UFO phenom : Seeking Progress [Re: hellno]
#23710256 - 10/05/16 03:06 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
hellno said: black ops projects are the ones using ufo..
Yeah. I have been through phases where I have been engrossed in this. In the weeks leading up to 9/11, I had got partial internet via cable on the TV and was obsessively into The Disclosure Project
There is a feeling of falling through rabbit holes with this subject lol
Your one of few in this thread suggesting that at least a good deal of this phenomena could be a lot closer to home. IE that there are humans having access to advanced secret technology, and it is these 'saucers' that are being seen?
That famous hacker Gary Mckinnon What did UFO hacker really find? claims to have found secret evidence to do with covert advanced technology
In the Disclosure Project this women who was secretary of one of the top Nazis, Dr. Wernher von Braun, who was brought over to America via Project paperclip is claimed by her to have confessed on his deathbed that 'they'/the ruling elite were planning a major false flag which would involve a staged invasion of 'aliens' and 'UFOs' and he pleaded with her to inform people about it. source
Does this mean I am saying this is a mono-explanation, Truly I don't know. I have a book by Pablo Amaringo who says how some healers there, in the forest, say they are visited by UFOs when drinking ayahuescero etc, and their occupants teach them icaros/healing songs etc
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: the UFO phenom : Seeking Progress [Re: hTx]
#23711849 - 10/05/16 11:49 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I once found a weird pamphlet from the 50's, it looked Rosicrucian, that outlined a plan for a staged alien visitation. Then Terence layed out the same theory at the end of True Hallucinations. I wonder if that's still happening... Kind of frustrating that the Phoenix incident was just before cell phones. You'd think someone would have caught something by now.
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