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AK1000
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If you had ample time, what would you do to help pinning to initiate?
#23703008 - 10/03/16 10:09 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Would it be beneficial to mist and fan several times a day? What other pinning triggers will help? I'm in a rut here with my fully colonized jars not pinning whatsoever, even after colonizing the verm casing. I'm convinced I've gotten the shitty end of the straw by isolating a non-fruiting strain with my agar. Or maybe it's true that PE really does have more issues with pinning? But it's been weeks. I want to make them pin already. I even have 6500k lights.
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Pastywhyte
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Re: If you had ample time, what would you do to help pinning to initiate? [Re: AK1000]
#23703023 - 10/03/16 10:16 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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If it's PE all you can do is give them good conditions and be patient. I have had PE take a month to pin.
Number one pinning trigger is full colonization. Next are FAE and evaporation from surface of the substrate.
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RyeJar
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Re: If you had ample time, what would you do to help pinning to initiate? [Re: Pastywhyte] 1
#23703058 - 10/03/16 10:29 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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If I want cubensis to fruit I...
Stop looking Stop messing Stop worrying
If you produced a clean spawn, and produced a clean 100% colonized substrate it is ridiculously tough not to get it to fruit. Even when I lived in the desert I once thought I had a spent monobucket of substrate so I went and dumped it out in the back yard. Two weeks later I had BEAUTIFUL fruits. The rH must of been around 20% and the light cycles were probably 16 hours daylight and 8 hours darkness and no joke, that substrate was pretty fricken dry when I threw it out.
Admittedly I haven't messed with PE and anecdotally it has more issues than your average cubensis
Edited by RyeJar (10/03/16 10:32 AM)
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AK1000
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Re: If you had ample time, what would you do to help pinning to initiate? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23703072 - 10/03/16 10:33 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: If it's PE all you can do is give them good conditions and be patient. I have had PE take a month to pin.
Number one pinning trigger is full colonization. Next are FAE and evaporation from surface of the substrate.
Thanks Pasty. The substrate is beyond colonized and consolidated. Temps are ideal in the 70's.
I've been fanning for 30-60seconds and misting lightly 4x a day. (Sometimes misting and fanning, othertimes fanning and misting. Does it matter which one is done first?)
Would it help to fan and mist more often? Or rather, maybe fan for 2-3 minutes rather than 30-60seconds?
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RyeJar
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Re: If you had ample time, what would you do to help pinning to initiate? [Re: AK1000]
#23703082 - 10/03/16 10:36 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
AK1000 said:
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: If it's PE all you can do is give them good conditions and be patient. I have had PE take a month to pin.
Number one pinning trigger is full colonization. Next are FAE and evaporation from surface of the substrate.
Would it help to fan and mist more often? Or rather, maybe fan for 2-3 minutes rather than 30-60seconds?
If you have to fan more than 4x a day for fruits there is something wrong. Cubes love to pin. FAE and evaporation aside, there is a reason you normally wait for invitro pinning of cakes before taking them out of the jar to mature. There is no FAE and evaporation happening in those jars at any appreciable rate.
FYI spray first fan after if spraying and fanning is your thing.
Is there a reason you went with a harder strain to grow when you are a novice? Pick up some tried and true B+ and you will be amazed at what it can do.
Edited by RyeJar (10/03/16 10:38 AM)
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Pastywhyte
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Re: If you had ample time, what would you do to help pinning to initiate? [Re: RyeJar]
#23703094 - 10/03/16 10:38 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Some pics would make this thread productive. Otherwise there might be something wrong and we will not be able to tell you.
All questions should take the form of a picture.
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thebug76
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Re: If you had ample time, what would you do to help pinning to initiate? [Re: RyeJar]
#23703096 - 10/03/16 10:39 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Mist first, then fan. The idea is to initiate evaporation. Fanning before you mist is defeating the purpose.
-------------------- Bug
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Pastywhyte
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Re: If you had ample time, what would you do to help pinning to initiate? [Re: thebug76] 1
#23703103 - 10/03/16 10:40 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Fanning is just changing the air. As long as you mist right after you fan it would be fine. But I find flapping a lid to be stupid. The air gets changed out from the act of misting. I fan with the mister.
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AK1000
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Re: If you had ample time, what would you do to help pinning to initiate? [Re: RyeJar]
#23703558 - 10/03/16 01:09 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
RyeJar said: Is there a reason you went with a harder strain to grow when you are a novice? Pick up some tried and true B+ and you will be amazed at what it can do.
I became infatuated with both the potency and experience of my last two mushroom trips that were Penis Envy... It felt like I was tripping for my first time all over again (my first time was 10 years ago)... so I thought hey, I'm going to try to grow these.
I did order some golden teachers though that I will get started on that will hopefully be a little more consistent.
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AK1000
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Re: If you had ample time, what would you do to help pinning to initiate? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23703576 - 10/03/16 01:14 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Some pics would make this thread productive. Otherwise there might be something wrong and we will not be able to tell you.
All questions should take the form of a picture.
This is the latest photo I just snapped up:

It's interesting to note that one of the youngest jars (only 2 weeks and a few day old) colonized the casing extremely fast while the others still have mycelium barely poking through. The oldest of jars (which are 6-7 weeks old by now) have not taken over the vermiculite one bit at all and seem to be stuck in time. The verm is moist to the touch though on those just like all the others so I'm not sure why.
I'm curious to know why that one jar took over the casing super duper fast, but no way for me to differentiate objectively as they were all done at the same time with the same casing of plain verm and same thickness.
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mushboy
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Re: If you had ample time, what would you do to help pinning to initiate? [Re: AK1000]
#23703610 - 10/03/16 01:24 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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ive never fruited jars/container like that.
usually you want the substrate filled to the top. the cups might create a place for stagnant air to settle(im guessing?) they need to be birthed in a SGFC or something.
also, what kind of FC is that? more pics pleeeaaasseeeee
edit: after reading over a few times i think you are confused big time. or i am... either way. more pics needed
Edited by mushboy (10/03/16 01:27 PM)
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Pastywhyte
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Re: If you had ample time, what would you do to help pinning to initiate? [Re: AK1000]
#23703625 - 10/03/16 01:26 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Okay first. That looks like RGS and v tek. First thing you need to to is get them uncolonized grains off the rim before they contam. In fact wipe the rims right down.
Second verm is a shitty casing material on its own and even shittier for casing grain which has no platform to pin from. I would recommend coir or peat mixed with verm as a casing for grain.
Given that it's cased grain and that it's PE you might be waiting a while for pins. That was a very slow combination for me when I tried it.
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Mushierage
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Re: If you had ample time, what would you do to help pinning to initiate? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23703647 - 10/03/16 01:30 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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-------------------- Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup. OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.
  
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mushboy
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Re: If you had ample time, what would you do to help pinning to initiate? [Re: Mushierage]
#23703723 - 10/03/16 01:47 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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ah. violet tek. eeehhhhh???
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Pastywhyte
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Re: If you had ample time, what would you do to help pinning to initiate? [Re: mushboy]
#23703733 - 10/03/16 01:49 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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It's a fine tek for what it does but needs ample consolidation time and more with PE I find. Upside is that I have never seen a PE blob with any V tek method.
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AK1000
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Re: If you had ample time, what would you do to help pinning to initiate? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23704052 - 10/03/16 03:24 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Okay first. That looks like RGS and v tek. First thing you need to to is get them uncolonized grains off the rim before they contam. In fact wipe the rims right down.
Correct! This is agar colonizing rye grass seed (RGS) and it was like the pods tek or the v-tek to be more accurate cause i use a monotub.
Quote:
mushboy said: they need to be birthed in a SGFC or something.
The fruiting chamber is a monotub made with micropore tape.
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Second verm is a shitty casing material on its own and even shittier for casing grain which has no platform to pin from. I would recommend coir or peat mixed with verm as a casing for grain.
In "Mudafaka's" bottle tek, he said he just uses vermiculite because it's the simplest and easiest for him, and I had a bunch so I did it. I do have lots of coir, too, but was hoping just some verm wouldve been fine. (Why does mudafaka say it's okay for him? if it's not acceptable, what's a good tek for making coir/verm mix? idk what ratios to use ... and add water until field capacity?)
In anycase, I will use a coir/verm mix for my next bottles for sure and note the differences in how the mycelium colonizes it all.
(Thanks for your help everybody, especially you pasty, thus far!)
Edited by AK1000 (10/03/16 03:28 PM)
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Pastywhyte
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Re: If you had ample time, what would you do to help pinning to initiate? [Re: AK1000]
#23704094 - 10/03/16 03:42 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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In muda's bottle tek verm is okay to use because there is bulk material under. But even with my own experience with bottles I found verm less effective than coir or peat. Verm can work, but I find other things work better.
Casing material is pretty easy. I usually just do the bucket tek and case with that but any ratio of coir to verm can work fairly good.
The one upside to verm is that often it won't be colonized as easy. But a aggressive culture can colonize nearly anything, especially PE cultures as you now know. If a casing gets fully colonized I usually don't worry too much about it.
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thebug76
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Re: If you had ample time, what would you do to help pinning to initiate? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23704134 - 10/03/16 04:00 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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A 50-50 mix coir and verm with a dash of lime has been the most productive I've found so far. There may be better options, but I've been happy with this so I haven't tried any others since my early projects.
-------------------- Bug
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Kenetic
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Re: If you had ample time, what would you do to help pinning to initiate? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23704146 - 10/03/16 04:03 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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So I've always considered a coir "casing" just an extra layer of sub and expected the myc to colonize it completely, but the tubs I have going on now are covered with about 1/4 inch of coir and they are doing extremely well, and acting just like the jiffy mix casing I usually use.
took a while to partially colonize the top but I've got primordia like a mother fucker.
I tried a verm casing before and I only got the fruits in my gallery, nothing spectacular. Never actually tried coir as a casing but it seems to be working well this round.
-------------------- Todo Cambia    DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet
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AK1000
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Re: If you had ample time, what would you do to help pinning to initiate? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23709176 - 10/05/16 08:05 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: In muda's bottle tek verm is okay to use because there is bulk material under.
Just curious... why does it matter if there is bulk material under? By bulk you mean a non-nutritive substance (mainly for moisture retention) as opposed to straight up only grain spawn?
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: But even with my own experience with bottles I found verm less effective than coir or peat. Verm can work, but I find other things work better.
Casing material is pretty easy. I usually just do the bucket tek and case with that but any ratio of coir to verm can work fairly good.
The last time I did the bucket tek I had trich appear when I mixed the spawn with the stuff and so I got somewhat scared of the pasteurization versus the ease of just putting straight verm on there with less paranoia. I wouldn't mind sterilizing a coir/ verm mix if it would still work. (I understand the concept of why pasteurization is helpful but I'm disenchanted by failure with the method.)
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: The one upside to verm is that often it won't be colonized as easy. But a aggressive culture can colonize nearly anything, especially PE cultures as you now know. If a casing gets fully colonized I usually don't worry too much about it.
This statement somewhat confuses me. I don't want it to colonize fully before fruiting due to overlay? But if it does you don't worry about it cause it pins anyway? I'm missing a piece here in understanding it fully.
Now... Final question... Do you recommend I add casing to these? How would I go about it? Sprinkle some coir and mist? Or add a thin layer of 50/50 mix of verm and coir? Or leave it alone and hope for the best?
PS: thanks again for telling me to remove those uncolonized grains. Your experience is obvious as your eye for these things is well developed. There were indeed some specks of grain that had become contaminated. Thank you for all your help.
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bodhisatta 
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Re: If you had ample time, what would you do to help pinning to initiate? [Re: AK1000]
#23709241 - 10/05/16 08:38 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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cubes don't get overlay
The bucket TEK is fine.if you saw trich it was from bad spawn. Coir doesn't need pasteurization nor can it even benefit from it. All it needs is heat treatment. Its used in reptile terrariums because it won't mold on its own
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Pastywhyte
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Re: If you had ample time, what would you do to help pinning to initiate? [Re: AK1000]
#23709243 - 10/05/16 08:38 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Verm is a poor pinning platform, it holds moisture and provides microclimate, but it'd texture is less than ideal for knot formation. Because bulk is a good texture for this platform it's not as detrimental to case it with verm as you are just looking for microclimate at that point. But grain has a terrible surface so I find that casing grain with verm is often less ideal than using a different material.
Trich with bucket tek is going to be your spawn 99.9% of the time. Coir is very contam resistant. Get better spawn and watch your success rise.
Overlay is not really an issue with cubes. I'm not going to say you cannot see it, but th odds are greatly against you having it. I had stroma once with cubes. Once. Now with pans it's nearly expected. Forget about overlay, it's not a factor.
Fully colonizing a casing is not the end of the world but, it does prevent the casing from providing a microclimate which is one of the main points of casing.
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AK1000
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Re: If you had ample time, what would you do to help pinning to initiate? [Re: bodhisatta]
#23709586 - 10/05/16 11:05 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I understand now. And you are right. That spawn I used before was indeed contaminated and I haven't had any issues since I started inoculating with agar. So I was putting the blame on the wrong thing.
Good to know that cubensis doesn't get overlay.
And bodhi, you said it doesn't need pasteurization but it can benefit from heat treatment. I thought those two went hand in hand. I should have a go at the bucket tek again and sprinkle some coir+verm ontop, what do you guys think? Would you do that in my scenario or just let it be with the plain verm and hope for the best?
I'm waiting for some mushrooms before I do another round of bottles and do it properly with the information I now know.
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AK1000
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Re: If you had ample time, what would you do to help pinning to initiate? [Re: AK1000]
#23717372 - 10/07/16 06:58 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
AK1000 said:
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Some pics would make this thread productive. Otherwise there might be something wrong and we will not be able to tell you.
All questions should take the form of a picture.
This is the latest photo I just snapped up:

So... an update. Still no pins. Some of the jars looked like this and the mycelium have completely taken over the plain-verm casing I had put over, which... I guess defeats the purpose of the casing:

So I made a bunch of CVG (using spitballs tek, thanks spitball!) and put a very thin layer on most of them, lightly misted and fanned.
Now it looks like this:

I hope this CVG casing helps it pin.
There are a few jars I didn't case because I wasn't entirely sure if maybe I did it wrong by casing them... what do you guys think? Should I just put CVG on the few other jars as well?
Edit: Also, I have built up mad respect to anyone that grows mushrooms. This shit is not easy and you need to read like an assassin to really figure shit out and it's awesome.. like a puzzle. A puzzle I hope to solve.
Edited by AK1000 (10/07/16 07:02 PM)
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