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OfflineGr0wer
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Registered: 09/16/03
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Gr0wers new spawn grain soaker setup
    #23702126 - 10/03/16 12:30 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Just whipped up a new grain soaking rig instead of the 5 gal pails with paint strainers in em. I used spare parts on hand, the elbow is a 1/2 NPT/PVC slip fitting and i used a tap for the hole and 6 wraps of Teflon tape. I have a 1/2 SS locknut somewhere and plan to put that on the outside of the vessel on the elbow so it will be SS locknut>tote wall>SS street elbow on inside, reducing the chance of the fitting pulling or pushing through and leaking.

Located next to my IBC tote where i fill bags and in front of my grain storage. I need to make or find small table for my scale and a weighing bucket to its left.


1/2 NPT/1/2 Slip with 1/2 PVC valve. I still need to either rig up a floor drain or hook up a hose to this to drain water outside. 


Hundreds of tiny holes, i think its a 1/16 bit, maybe smaller. Smaller than white millet which is my smallest grain.


SS street elbow on the inside to siphon till almost empty and helps lock the other street elbows threads in place.




20 lbs oats, 10 lbs milo, 2 lbs millet after 24 hours soak, drained and ready for scooping with my measuring bucket. This will make 9X ~5.3 lb spawn bags for my AA941


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OfflineMattisfat
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Re: Gr0wers new spawn grain soaker setup [Re: Gr0wer]
    #23702241 - 10/03/16 01:25 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I literally just made something similar last week but used a large bucket which i found for 30p, i just hammered a small screw driver through the bottom a load of times, for the soak the bucket will be placed inside another bucket and simply lifted out to drain. Havnt used it yet to see how quickly it drains - hopefully not long


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OfflineGr0wer
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Re: Gr0wers new spawn grain soaker setup [Re: Mattisfat]
    #23702648 - 10/03/16 07:36 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Thats exactly what ive been doing for the last year. The issue is now that im using growbags its 2x as much and wont all fit into one pail, so i would have two sets of pails. The other issue is my scoop pail wouldn't fit inside the pails to scoop so i would end up dumping into one of these totes anyways. Also with the pulling out, this is 30 lbs of dry grain + water content puts it closer to 50 lbs and add 15 gal extra water weight its almost 200 lbs!!! The valve saves my back :smile:



Edited by Gr0wer (10/03/16 07:43 AM)


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Invisiblevatman
I'm Vatman


Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 1,642
Re: Gr0wers new spawn grain soaker setup [Re: Gr0wer]
    #23703323 - 10/03/16 11:45 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Are your oats whole oats and take it is this is following your no dry tek for the grains.


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OfflineJanuaryWolf
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Re: Gr0wers new spawn grain soaker setup [Re: Gr0wer]
    #23703697 - 10/03/16 01:40 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Do you do a 24 hr cold soaking of your grains?

I had been doing an overnight cold soak, and folks were concerned about bacterial growth soaking in cold (room temp)water for 15-20 hours. I don't think it's a problem when it's rinsed and sterilized, or at least I didn't have enough contamination to be concerned.


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OfflineMattisfat
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Re: Gr0wers new spawn grain soaker setup [Re: JanuaryWolf]
    #23703718 - 10/03/16 01:45 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

JanuaryWolf said:
Do you do a 24 hr cold soaking of your grains?

I had been doing an overnight cold soak, and folks were concerned about bacterial growth soaking in cold (room temp)water for 15-20 hours. I don't think it's a problem when it's rinsed and sterilized, or at least I didn't have enough contamination to be concerned.



The point is to get the bacteria and the endospores to germinate so they can be killed in the sterilisation process


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OfflineJanuaryWolf
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Re: Gr0wers new spawn grain soaker setup [Re: Mattisfat]
    #23703753 - 10/03/16 01:55 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

The main point is to hydrate the grains. But, with the grains being underwater, they don't have access to oxygen and can go anaerobic, which would be an unfavorable environment for some bacteria? The bacteria start creating more endospores after 8 hours of being in an unfavorable environment.


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Invisiblevatman
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Registered: 04/17/14
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Re: Gr0wers new spawn grain soaker setup [Re: JanuaryWolf]
    #23703795 - 10/03/16 02:05 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

aloha's no soak, no prep for small farms and home growers is to have to put x amount of water based on the grain  load it into the pressure cooker at 5 PSI. Let it cool for 24 hours than recook at 15 PSI. There is a detailed log somewhere about a guy who worked there, and paid to go to classes there somewhere on the internet.

Also to be honest it is a lot of work measuring out the water. As you need the mass of the grain for each jar.

Long story short
gr0wer's tek will germinate most endospores. If you want to get super sterile do a 5 PSI run. That will be enough to kill about anything that is alive. Than wait 24 hours and do a 15 PSI.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Gr0wers new spawn grain soaker setup [Re: vatman]
    #23703830 - 10/03/16 02:12 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Mattisfat said:
Quote:

JanuaryWolf said:
Do you do a 24 hr cold soaking of your grains?

I had been doing an overnight cold soak, and folks were concerned about bacterial growth soaking in cold (room temp)water for 15-20 hours. I don't think it's a problem when it's rinsed and sterilized, or at least I didn't have enough contamination to be concerned.



The point is to get the bacteria and the endospores to germinate so they can be killed in the sterilisation process




That doesn't work, it just increases the amount of bacteria to kill, increasing cooking time needed.
Soaks require minimum cooking conditions for the duration, or an antibacterial treatment.

The point is to pre hydrate the grains to cook them, not grow bacteria.
Cooking as normal hob like, then strait to PC would be best.


Quote:

vatman said:
aloha's no soak, no prep for small farms and home growers is to have to put x amount of water based on the grain  load it into the pressure cooker at 5 PSI. Let it cool for 24 hours than recook at 15 PSI. There is a detailed log somewhere about a guy who worked there, and paid to go to classes there somewhere on the internet.

Also to be honest it is a lot of work measuring out the water. As you need the mass of the grain for each jar.

Long story short
gr0wer's tek will germinate most endospores. If you want to get super sterile do a 5 PSI run. That will be enough to kill about anything that is alive. Than wait 24 hours and do a 15 PSI.




If Gr0wer adds a heating element to that soaker, he will do fine.
I'm more than sure he can make the adjustment.

As his title says: "always improving".


--------------------
                   

Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

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OfflineMattisfat
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Re: Gr0wers new spawn grain soaker setup [Re: Ferather]
    #23703860 - 10/03/16 02:19 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

obviously ive misread something somewhere then. How do you hydrate your grains ferather?


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Invisiblevatman
I'm Vatman


Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 1,642
Re: Gr0wers new spawn grain soaker setup [Re: Ferather]
    #23703865 - 10/03/16 02:21 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ferather said:

If Gr0wer adds a heating element to that soaker, he will do fine.
I'm more than sure he can make the adjustment.

As his title says: "always improving".




https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22524362/fpart/all/vc/1

No need for the heater. Heat is just used to hydrate grains. Not so much with endospore germination. You will not germinate all endospores with warm water too. Once you get close to a little passed your 24 hour soak is when you start getting more endospores than with what you started with.

Like I said if you wanted to get closer to true sterlization do a 5 PSI run. wait 24 hours than do a 15 psi run. The 5 PSI will kill about everything currently alive. 15 PSI will kill everything currently alive and most of the remaining endospore population.

Quote:

Mattisfat said:
obviously ive misread something somewhere then. How do you hydrate your grains ferather?



I think he is using this tek I linked above and just stream lining the process.


Edited by vatman (10/03/16 02:22 PM)


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Gr0wers new spawn grain soaker setup [Re: vatman]
    #23703985 - 10/03/16 03:04 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

vatman said:
Quote:

Mattisfat said:
obviously ive misread something somewhere then. How do you hydrate your grains ferather?



I think he is using this tek I linked above and just stream lining the process.




I do Hob > Pressure cooker, while still raging hot. Kettle strain, got that from the actives section.
However the PC idea looks a lot better, even a slow lower pressure cook to start.

Also if Gr0wer adds enough heat, he will have a grain boiler.
And one that does more in one go than a hob or PC.

Not saying it is perfect, but it's good enough.
Add tea and we talk a different game.


--------------------
                   

Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

DTS DCH Driver for Realtek [DTS:X] - Unlocked and reprogrammed.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Gr0wers new spawn grain soaker setup [Re: Ferather]
    #23704059 - 10/03/16 03:28 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Also if he saves the water he collects he instantly has liquid fertilizer for wood.
Simple case of cooking and keeping the fertilizer clean, use as fluids.

Suddenly a very useful and good way to hydrate bulk.


--------------------
                   

Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

DTS DCH Driver for Realtek [DTS:X] - Unlocked and reprogrammed.


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InvisibleMarty Mycfly
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Re: Gr0wers new spawn grain soaker setup [Re: vatman]
    #23704231 - 10/03/16 04:32 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

vatman said:
aloha's no soak, no prep for small farms and home growers is to have to put x amount of water based on the grain  load it into the pressure cooker at 5 PSI. Let it cool for 24 hours than recook at 15 PSI. There is a detailed log somewhere about a guy who worked there, and paid to go to classes there somewhere on the internet.

Also to be honest it is a lot of work measuring out the water. As you need the mass of the grain for each jar.

Long story short
gr0wer's tek will germinate most endospores. If you want to get super sterile do a 5 PSI run. That will be enough to kill about anything that is alive. Than wait 24 hours and do a 15 PSI.




That technique from Aloha sounds pretty neat, where is that info available? I couldn't find it on their site.


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Mycfly's King Oysters                                       

Mycfly's Reishi    

                                                 


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Gr0wers new spawn grain soaker setup [Re: Marty Mycfly]
    #23704265 - 10/03/16 04:41 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I found this, use that for the first cook, then as normal for the second.


--------------------
                   

Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

DTS DCH Driver for Realtek [DTS:X] - Unlocked and reprogrammed.


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OfflineGr0wer
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Re: Gr0wers new spawn grain soaker setup [Re: Ferather]
    #23704479 - 10/03/16 05:51 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Yea absolutely no need for a heater, ive been making my own spawn for almost 2 years with this tek and rarely have any issues. Endospores are somewhat of a myth IMO, sterilization has to do with time and temp, nothing survives 250F of steam for 1-2 hours. If i put a heater on there now im dealing with bagging boiling hot grains and draining boiling hot water. Yes the liquid can be used for LC's or even hydrating sawdust if immediately used but i rarely have this convenience in my workflow. And if dumped it outside it attracts flies.  And "always improving" would be more like me making this tub, not adding a heater. KISS. The more i can do with less moving parts the better.


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OfflineJanuaryWolf
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Re: Gr0wers new spawn grain soaker setup [Re: Gr0wer]
    #23704940 - 10/03/16 08:27 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Over the 30 plus times I've done a long room temp soak of grain I've had very little issues with contamination. Problems occurred only if the grains weren't dry enough when bagged. Steam sterilizing at 216F for 10hrs kills everything in my experience. So you don't have to heat before sterilizing to hydrate grains nor add tea. You'll still be able to grow healthy and clean mushrooms.


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Invisiblevatman
I'm Vatman


Registered: 04/17/14
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Re: Gr0wers new spawn grain soaker setup [Re: Marty Mycfly]
    #23706065 - 10/04/16 09:04 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Marty Mycfly said:
Quote:

vatman said:
aloha's no soak, no prep for small farms and home growers is to have to put x amount of water based on the grain  load it into the pressure cooker at 5 PSI. Let it cool for 24 hours than recook at 15 PSI. There is a detailed log somewhere about a guy who worked there, and paid to go to classes there somewhere on the internet.

Also to be honest it is a lot of work measuring out the water. As you need the mass of the grain for each jar.

Long story short
gr0wer's tek will germinate most endospores. If you want to get super sterile do a 5 PSI run. That will be enough to kill about anything that is alive. Than wait 24 hours and do a 15 PSI.




That technique from Aloha sounds pretty neat, where is that info available? I couldn't find it on their site.



Quote:

Marty Mycfly said:
Quote:

vatman said:
aloha's no soak, no prep for small farms and home growers is to have to put x amount of water based on the grain  load it into the pressure cooker at 5 PSI. Let it cool for 24 hours than recook at 15 PSI. There is a detailed log somewhere about a guy who worked there, and paid to go to classes there somewhere on the internet.

Also to be honest it is a lot of work measuring out the water. As you need the mass of the grain for each jar.

Long story short
gr0wer's tek will germinate most endospores. If you want to get super sterile do a 5 PSI run. That will be enough to kill about anything that is alive. Than wait 24 hours and do a 15 PSI.




That technique from Aloha sounds pretty neat, where is that info available? I couldn't find it on their site.



It is buried in this log. https://mycotopia.net/topic/93548-an-aloha-medicinals-scholarship-month-log/page-3

Not sure what page.


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Offlinebeastcoast
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Re: Gr0wers new spawn grain soaker setup [Re: vatman]
    #23706834 - 10/04/16 01:14 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Always enjoy seeing improvements to your setup. Do you live in a cold climate? How do you grow in the winter? Is there even a farmer's market that time of year?


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OfflineGr0wer
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Re: Gr0wers new spawn grain soaker setup [Re: beastcoast]
    #23709233 - 10/05/16 08:34 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I grow in the hot desert, El Paso TX, My main issue is too much heat so i swamp cool, next summer i might need to add a few extra boards of foam outside the sheetrock if it gets too hot. I already have my garage door insulated to like R7.  I use a swamp cooler to keep the temps down, sometimes ill supplement by using my houses A/C by leaving the inside door open with a fan. But as most growers i change cultures with the temps growing tropical pinks and goldens in the summer and cooler weather mushrooms in the winter. I used to do farmers markets and yes they are year round but now i only distribute to restaurants, soon supermarkets.


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OfflineTravelAgency
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Re: Gr0wers new spawn grain soaker setup [Re: Gr0wer]
    #23710789 - 10/05/16 06:15 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Gr0wer said:
I grow in the hot desert, El Paso TX, soon supermarkets.





Do you have an HMart out there? They carry a ton of mushrooms and their oysters are honestly bad quality- and they generally have a medicinal mushroom shop- with very high prices. If you do I would check them out.


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OfflineGr0wer
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Re: Gr0wers new spawn grain soaker setup [Re: TravelAgency]
    #23711382 - 10/05/16 08:32 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I have some local supermarkets already in my sight, i can probabbly ony grow enough to support one or two on top of my resturants.


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Gr0wers new spawn grain soaker setup [Re: Gr0wer]
    #23711653 - 10/05/16 10:16 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

To clear things up, yes endospores are a thing and soaking helps them to germinate.  Then you can kill them in the pc.  It's mostly helpful if you're expanding grain spawn, if not theN you can skip.  It also depends oN the grain, what grade it is etc.  Feed grain is not cleaned as much as human food grade for instance and feed grain is much dirtier but cheaper.


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Offlinetump
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Re: Gr0wers new spawn grain soaker setup [Re: drake89]
    #23712058 - 10/06/16 03:10 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Yes soaking a riseing feed grains is easy for shaking. For oats im big fan of the new boiling for a hour method of prepared but i still soak them before hand. Maybe this would improve your draining system. Soak your grain in whole buckets like normal. But get a cheap laundry sink with legs, then hot glue two window screens to fit inside it coving the whole sink. Put a pale under yhe drain hole to cacth your grain water. There done i know my sink with hold 50lbs of dry grain fully hydrated.


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OfflineGr0wer
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Re: Gr0wers new spawn grain soaker setup [Re: tump]
    #23714634 - 10/06/16 10:37 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Drake, I should have worded it better. I realize endospores exist, but the rumors that go around about double PC'ing or having to go out of your way to kill endospores is a myth/wasted effort. Once you hit 240+F for XX time you get 100% lethality of every single living organism/spore/seed/endospore/bacteria.

Tump, im trying to simplify as much as possible, The picture has 33 lbs of grain, so it probably could also fit 50 lbs.  A big sink would get in the way and take up valuable floor space. And a window screen would probably collapse under the weight of all this grain, and rip when i go to scoop, and what do you do when you get to the bottom? You cant dump it out like a tote. These totes stack and go under the table when not in use. Its also mobile, today i used it in my chamber to soak shiitake blocks, I put the blocks in then put the tote with holes on top with a heavy grain pail to hold down the blocks. I then filled the bottom tote with water. After a few hours i opened the drain and re racked the blocks once empty.


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