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Memories



Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 10,484
Loc: Suwannee River
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
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Re: Is owning a gun a right or a privilege? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23702138 - 10/03/16 12:38 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: in the US it's a right for all those not disqualified such as convicts, violent felons, etc...
in other parts of the world it's typically not a right

I think it's silly when people try to take the use of "rights" further by saying things like healthcare is an inalienable human right as if the right to it exists outside of government. There is no such thing as rights outside of government except maybe in established cultural practices which is really a type of government in its own right.
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Kenetic
Nam Sayin



Registered: 08/24/14
Posts: 4,389
Loc: I don't believe in land
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: Is owning a gun a right or a privilege? [Re: Memories]
#23702160 - 10/03/16 12:43 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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lol @ "free society"
-------------------- Todo Cambia    DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet
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Shroomslip
Architekt



Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 23,651
Last seen: 54 minutes, 24 seconds
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Re: Is owning a gun a right or a privilege? [Re: ruaware] 1
#23702172 - 10/03/16 12:49 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well virtually all the driving a person does in their lifetime is going to be on public roads, around other people. I mean that's the purpose of the license.. Because of where you will be operating your 2 tons of instant death. You don't need a license to drive on private property (or at least if there's some technicality that says you do, it's basically completely unenforced). Having a gun doesn't basically guarantee you'll be operating it in public or around other people, and the laws around using them in public are a hell of a lot more strict than the rules for using your car in public. Hell even before you get to "operating it in public" in a lot of places and situations you need a license just to carry it around with you.
People love to use that argument a lot but the two aren't really comparable. Think about it.
If you want to actually compare gun to car, then it basically boils down to this: You can buy both without a license, in some places obtaining a gun puts you under greater scrutiny and operating the gun in public ALWAYS comes with more regulation than operating a car in public does.
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With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,066
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 1 hour, 24 minutes
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Re: Is owning a gun a right or a privilege? [Re: Memories]
#23702182 - 10/03/16 12:55 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Owning certain types of guns is a right. Weapons that are unusually dangerous and/or not in common usage is the standard that the courts have used to determine if a particular gun is protected by the 2nd amendment. A good guide to what guns are not protected would be laws recently upheld in conn and ny.
None of these weapons are protected by the 2nd ammendment:
Quote:
(a) As used in this section and sections 53-202b to 53-202k, inclusive, “assault weapon” means: (1) Any selective-fire firearm capable of fully automatic, semiautomatic or burst fire at the option of the user or any of the other following specified semiautomatic firearms: Algimec Agmi Armalite AR-180 Australian Automatic Arms SAP Pistol Auto-Ordnance Thompson type Avtomat Kalashnikov AK-47 type Barrett Light-Fifty model 82A1 Beretta AR-70 Bushmaster Auto Rifle and Auto Pistol Calico models M-900, M-950 and 100-P Chartered Industries of Singapore SR-88 Colt AR-15 and Sporter Daewoo K-1, K-2, Max-1 and Max-2 Ecom MK-IV, MP-9 and MP-45 Fabrique Nationale FN/FAL, FN/LAR, or FN/FNC FAMAS MAS 223 Feather AT-9 and Mini-AT Federal XC-900 and XC-450 Franchi SPAS-12 and Law-12 Galil AR and ARM (2) A part or combination of parts designed or intended to convert a firearm into an assault weapon, as defined in subdivision (1) of this subsection or any combination of parts from which an assault weapon, as defined in subdivision (1) of this subsection, may be rapidly assembled if those parts are in possession or under the control of the same person; (3) Any semiautomatic firearm not listed in subdivision (1) of this subsection that meets the following criteria: (A) A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at lease two of the following: (i) A folding or telescoping stock; (ii) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon; (iii) A bayonet mount; (iv) A flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and (v) A grenade launcher; or (B) A semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following: (i) An ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip; (ii) A threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip or silencer; (iii) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the non-trigger hand without being burned; (iv) A manufactured weight of fifty ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; and (v) A semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm; or (C) A semiautomatic shotgun that has at least two of the following: (i) A folding or telescoping stock; (ii) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon; Goncz High-Tech Carbine and High-Tech Long Pistol Heckler & Koch HK-91, HK-93, HK-94 and SP-89 Holmes MP-83 MAC-10, MAC-11 and MAC-11 Carbine type Intratec TEC-9 and Scorpion Iver Johnson Enforcer model 3000 Ruger Mini-14/5F folding stock model only Scarab Skorpion SIG 57 AMT and 500 series Spectre Auto Carbine and Auto Pistol Springfield Armory BM59, SAR-48 and G-3 Sterline MK-6 and MK-7 Steyr AUG Street Sweeper and Striker 12 revolving cylinder shotguns USAS-12 UZI Carbine, Mini-Carbine and Pistol Weaver Arms Nighthawk Wilkinson “Linda” Pistol
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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ruaware
Registered: 06/30/16
Posts: 383
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.
Edited by ruaware (12/06/16 02:07 AM)
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,066
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 1 hour, 24 minutes
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Re: Is owning a gun a right or a privilege? [Re: Shroomslip]
#23702192 - 10/03/16 01:04 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomslip said: Well virtually all the driving a person does in their lifetime is going to be on public roads, around other people. I mean that's the purpose of the license.. Because of where you will be operating your 2 tons of instant death. You don't need a license to drive on private property (or at least if there's some technicality that says you do, it's basically completely unenforced). Having a gun doesn't basically guarantee you'll be operating it in public or around other people, and the laws around using them in public are a hell of a lot more strict than the rules for using your car in public. Hell even before you get to "operating it in public" in a lot of places and situations you need a license just to carry it around with you.
People love to use that argument a lot but the two aren't really comparable. Think about it.
If you want to actually compare gun to car, then it basically boils down to this: You can buy both without a license, in some places obtaining a gun puts you under greater scrutiny and operating the gun in public ALWAYS comes with more regulation than operating a car in public does.
are you kidding? Traffic regulations take up more statutory space than just about any other category.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Great Scott
Trigger Lover


Registered: 05/05/03
Posts: 19,797
Loc: Control Grid
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Re: Is owning a gun a right or a privilege? [Re: falsereality]
#23702198 - 10/03/16 01:09 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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The right to keep and bear arms is a fundamental right. It's the right to having a means of defense. A caveman has the fundamental right to pick up a rock in defense against another caveman who pick up a rock. If a caveman fashions a club, the other caveman also has the right to fashion his own club. Fast forward to swords. If there's other people walking around with swords and you have the ability to make or acquire your own sword, you have that natural right to do so.
It's no different with guns. Up until 1934, everything was above board and in full compliance with the 2nd Amendment. Obviously concessions have been made since then.
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Shroomslip
Architekt



Registered: 11/25/12
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Re: Is owning a gun a right or a privilege? [Re: koods]
#23702239 - 10/03/16 01:24 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm not talking about word count on a piece of paper. I'm talking about when it's acceptable to use and when it's not and under what circumstances. You are a lot more free to use your car on public roads than you are allowed to use a gun in public spaces. Also, I've yet to actually witness the enforcement of any regulation banning someone from operating a vehicle on their own property just because they live in the city limits or their property isn't large enough.
In places where both things are regulated, the most common use of a car on your own property is called "Parking". But it has many other names as well. Everything from maintenance and recreation to work and is totally legal. Usually using a gun on your property (that isn't in self defense situations which is one of the only times you're allowed to use it on your own property) is called "Negligent Discharge" at best and it is a crime you can be charged for.
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With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,066
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 1 hour, 24 minutes
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Re: Is owning a gun a right or a privilege? [Re: Shroomslip]
#23702296 - 10/03/16 01:59 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Not buying it. The regulations for where and when and how you operate a motor vehicle are so ubiquitous, maybe you dont notice them. Every posted speed limit, yield sign, traffic signal, road marking, use of signals, etc represent a micromanaging of drivers is so far beyond anything a gun owner must deal with. To operate a motor vehicle, you have to pass a test that shows you know the laws of road. You have to pass a test that shows you know how to operate the car. You have to register the car. You have to get insurance on the car. None of these things apply to guns, at least not usually.
Quote:
yet to actually witness the enforcement of any regulation banning someone from operating a vehicle on their own property just because they live in the city limits or their property isn't large enough
Well, these comparisons only can go so far. Cars can't launch projectiles into other people's property, under normal operating conditions at least.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (10/03/16 02:08 AM)
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Shroomslip
Architekt



Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 23,651
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Re: Is owning a gun a right or a privilege? [Re: koods]
#23702337 - 10/03/16 02:46 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Most of what you said about operating a car only applies to operating it on public roads. Yes you have to take a test to prove you can do it and get and keep a valid license and follow the rules. To operate a gun in public you generally also have to do the same thing. You're not justified in illegally carrying a weapon even if you use it to legitimately defend yourself. You're still guilty of unlawfully carrying that weapon in public. Which is a crime that comes with even stiffer penalties than driving without insurance or a license. I've been caught driving without a license or insurance. I got a few hundred dollars in fines. You think if I were carrying without a CHL and got caught carrying it, or worse discharged it in public I'd walk away with just a few hundred dollars in fines? Hell no. I'd probably be lucky to get probation.
You're still trying to apply the number of regulations instead of the restrictions of those regulations. They are not the same thing. You know why there isn't as much micromanaging to carrying and using a gun in public? Because it's not anywhere near as complex as dealing with traffic. So trying to point to the number of laws on the books as a direct comparison between the two is nonsensical.
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With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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luvdemboomers
loner with a boner
Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 5,054
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Re: Is owning a gun a right or a privilege? [Re: Shroomslip]
#23702423 - 10/03/16 04:14 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Koods,
How is that list of guns not protected by the second ammendment? Where in the second ammendment does it exclude certain guns? Last I checked, it clarified it self with the phrase "shall not be infringed"
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Is owning a gun a right or a privilege? [Re: ruaware]
#23702928 - 10/03/16 09:41 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
ruaware said: Makes no sense to have obtaining a gun be easier than obtaining a drivers license
it's not.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Is owning a gun a right or a privilege? [Re: LIBERTYNY]
#23702960 - 10/03/16 09:49 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
LIBERTYNY said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: in the US it's a right for all those not disqualified such as convicts, violent felons, etc...
in other parts of the world it's typically not a right
Rights can not be taken away by outside forces, that would then be a privilege.
having a right taken away because of choices you make doesnt make it a privelege, it's still a right but you made bad choices and some rights were take from you
Quote:
Criminals have every right to defend themselves we have
convicted felons dont have a right to own guns. so while they do have the right to defend themselves against someone attacking them they dont have the same rights that we do when it comes to self defense
Quote:
If someone is not sane enouth to own a firearm, they are not sane enouth to be in a free society.
so you're saying what exactly, the guy that served out his 30 years in prison for murder should remain in prison or he should be allowed to own a gun again?
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Is owning a gun a right or a privilege? [Re: luvdemboomers] 1
#23702966 - 10/03/16 09:52 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemboomers said: Koods,
How is that list of guns not protected by the second ammendment? Where in the second ammendment does it exclude certain guns? Last I checked, it clarified it self with the phrase "shall not be infringed"
because in liberal logic; this (Ruger Mini-14/5F folding stock model only)

is way more dangerous than this

same gun, neither has a fire control group in it but one has a scary folding stock
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vandago



Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 20,917
Loc: .
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Re: Is owning a gun a right or a privilege? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23702970 - 10/03/16 09:53 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: in the US it's a right for all those not disqualified such as convicts, violent felons, etc...
in other parts of the world it's typically not a right
Not all convicts are banned from owning guns, all felons are, regardless of violence or not.
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King Klick
That Guy Everyone Knows



Registered: 11/13/11
Posts: 7,267
Last seen: 7 months, 10 hours
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Re: Is owning a gun a right or a privilege? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23702984 - 10/03/16 09:57 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: in the US it's a right for all those not disqualified such as convicts, violent felons, etc...
Which means it's not a right, it's a privelage
-------------------- Your god is dead, and I killed him. When you’re lost, here I am. Forever with your soul
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Is owning a gun a right or a privilege? [Re: vandago]
#23703002 - 10/03/16 10:07 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
vandago said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: in the US it's a right for all those not disqualified such as convicts, violent felons, etc...
in other parts of the world it's typically not a right
Not all convicts are banned from owning guns, all felons are, regardless of violence or not.
not all felons are excluded from owning a gun either
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Is owning a gun a right or a privilege? [Re: King Klick]
#23703003 - 10/03/16 10:08 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
King Klick said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: in the US it's a right for all those not disqualified such as convicts, violent felons, etc...
Which means it's not a right, it's a privelage
false.
is voting a right?
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King Klick
That Guy Everyone Knows



Registered: 11/13/11
Posts: 7,267
Last seen: 7 months, 10 hours
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Re: Is owning a gun a right or a privilege? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23703009 - 10/03/16 10:10 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
King Klick said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: in the US it's a right for all those not disqualified such as convicts, violent felons, etc...
Which means it's not a right, it's a privelage
false.
is voting a right?
Should be, but also, privilege.
-------------------- Your god is dead, and I killed him. When you’re lost, here I am. Forever with your soul
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa
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Re: Is owning a gun a right or a privilege? [Re: King Klick]
#23703029 - 10/03/16 10:18 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Rifles are a right that can be made into a privilege if you broke the law.
Handguns is just stupid.
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