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Mr.Caterpillar
Curiouser & Curiouser!



Registered: 07/28/07
Posts: 233
Loc: Wonderland
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
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Claviceps Paspali contaminating Psilocybe Cubensis
#23692804 - 09/30/16 12:59 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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What is this? I think its a plate of Cubensis that has been contaminated with Claviceps Paspali. For a while I was taking wild cultures of Claviceps Paspali from the ergot honeydew on heads of dallisgrass. The ergot is virulent! And maybe my lab procedures are not all they could be . . .
Recently, I was trying to resuscitate a prized isolate of a sporeless culture of cubensis. Out of three possible viable plates left from nearly a year ago one was overgrown with an unidentified aerial white contaminant. Since a bit of the rhizomorphic cubensis tissue was still visible peeking out of the morass of white contamination I thought there was nothing to lose in culturing it.
Once it grew out I saw the tell-tale pink of Paspali growth - no doubt about it, that is Paspali. Not sure if the Cubensis is even still alive, or if it has been completely eaten by the Paspali, or if it ever grew whatsover.
However, I believe pink is a coloration in Paspali that indicates (potential) alkaloid production. This got me to thinking: What if one co-cultures Paspali with Cubensis? I mean; it's well known that Paspali needs tryptophan for lysergic acid alkaloid production, so perhaps Tryptamine (such as psilocin) would act as a useful bio-precursor. I think that a lot of interesting things (parasitic, symbiotic, etc.) things happen in the fungal world that are interactions between living things and produce synergetic results.
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cc2
Mush

Registered: 05/15/10
Posts: 2,611
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Re: Claviceps Paspali contaminating Psilocybe Cubensis [Re: Mr.Caterpillar]
#23728474 - 10/11/16 02:37 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mr.Caterpillar said: This got me to thinking: What if one co-cultures Paspali with Cubensis? I mean; it's well known that Paspali needs tryptophan for lysergic acid alkaloid production, so perhaps Tryptamine (such as psilocin) would act as a useful bio-precursor. I think that a lot of interesting things (parasitic, symbiotic, etc.) things happen in the fungal world that are interactions between living things and produce synergetic results.
claviceps are plant parasites and the only mycoparasitism I've read about in literature has them as hosts rather than as parasites. also alkaloids, specially in mycelium cultures, are of a concentration low enough to make any medium-dispersed source more convenient, even if they would interact in ways different than competing against each other (but I highly doubt that).
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dankington
The Stranger




Registered: 03/14/15
Posts: 4,577
Loc: 8te
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Re: Claviceps Paspali contaminating Psilocybe Cubensis [Re: cc2]
#23728498 - 10/11/16 02:44 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I would almost think that if you're so positive of the claviceps ID, that it may be a mislabeled specimen?
Because to my noobish eyes it looks like mycelium enmeshed with some kind of mold.
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Mr.Caterpillar
Curiouser & Curiouser!



Registered: 07/28/07
Posts: 233
Loc: Wonderland
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
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Re: Claviceps Paspali contaminating Psilocybe Cubensis [Re: cc2]
#23730153 - 10/12/16 02:49 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
cc2 said:
Quote:
Mr.Caterpillar said: This got me to thinking: What if one co-cultures Paspali with Cubensis? I mean; it's well known that Paspali needs tryptophan for lysergic acid alkaloid production, so perhaps Tryptamine (such as psilocin) would act as a useful bio-precursor. I think that a lot of interesting things (parasitic, symbiotic, etc.) things happen in the fungal world that are interactions between living things and produce synergetic results.
claviceps are plant parasites and the only mycoparasitism I've read about in literature has them as hosts rather than as parasites. also alkaloids, specially in mycelium cultures, are of a concentration low enough to make any medium-dispersed source more convenient, even if they would interact in ways different than competing against each other (but I highly doubt that).
I think it is a flight of fancy on my part based on the amusement of finding that Paspali had gotten into a Cubensis culture somehow. I don't know if it is eating the Cubensis mycelium, or just the agar. However, I have enough plates of each that I can try putting them together on purpose and see, as best I can, what they do.
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Mr.Caterpillar
Curiouser & Curiouser!



Registered: 07/28/07
Posts: 233
Loc: Wonderland
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
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Re: Claviceps Paspali contaminating Psilocybe Cubensis [Re: dankington]
#23730156 - 10/12/16 02:55 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
dankington said: I would almost think that if you're so positive of the claviceps ID, that it may be a mislabeled specimen?
Because to my noobish eyes it looks like mycelium enmeshed with some kind of mold.
It looks like Claviceps to me. I have grown out 100s of plates of Paspali, and that pink ring is very characteristic. What is absent, however, is the deposit of purple/brown pigment into the agar.
Its Paspali season now. It grows rampantly all around where I live. I see the ergot heads as I'm driving by, but haven't taken time to collect any this year. MandarinFish gave me a good reference for culturing from the sclerotia which I was not successful in doing originally, so perhaps I'll give that another shot.
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drake89
Mushroom Magnate



Registered: 06/26/11
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Loc: TN
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Re: Claviceps Paspali contaminating Psilocybe Cubensis [Re: Mr.Caterpillar]
#23730584 - 10/12/16 09:08 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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looks like a common yellow/brown mold I've had a lot of experience combating.
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krypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 11,579
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: Claviceps Paspali contaminating Psilocybe Cubensis [Re: Mr.Caterpillar]
#23731296 - 10/12/16 01:32 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mr.Caterpillar said:
Quote:
dankington said: I would almost think that if you're so positive of the claviceps ID, that it may be a mislabeled specimen?
Because to my noobish eyes it looks like mycelium enmeshed with some kind of mold.
It looks like Claviceps to me. I have grown out 100s of plates of Paspali, and that pink ring is very characteristic. What is absent, however, is the deposit of purple/brown pigment into the agar.
Its Paspali season now. It grows rampantly all around where I live. I see the ergot heads as I'm driving by, but haven't taken time to collect any this year. MandarinFish gave me a good reference for culturing from the sclerotia which I was not successful in doing originally, so perhaps I'll give that another shot.
You can't see the agar in that pic, how can you tell if the pigmented metabolites are not present?
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inski
Cortinariologist



Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 5,720
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Re: Claviceps Paspali contaminating Psilocybe Cubensis [Re: krypto2000]
#23732733 - 10/12/16 10:35 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Probably by looking at the bottom of the plate.
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Mr.Caterpillar
Curiouser & Curiouser!



Registered: 07/28/07
Posts: 233
Loc: Wonderland
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
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Re: Claviceps Paspali contaminating Psilocybe Cubensis [Re: drake89]
#23733081 - 10/13/16 03:07 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
drake89 said: looks like a common yellow/brown mold I've had a lot of experience combating.
Its not yellow/brown - its pink (white balance of the camera throws that off a little bit, and computer screen color calibration varies). It appears to me to be Paspali. I have quite a few plates (though they are all from last year) of paspali cultures, and that growth seems very characteristic, however its possible that I'm mistaken. I have a microscope with camera, so I could take some micrographs (and I should!) but I'm so busy with other things.
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Mr.Caterpillar
Curiouser & Curiouser!



Registered: 07/28/07
Posts: 233
Loc: Wonderland
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
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Re: Claviceps Paspali contaminating Psilocybe Cubensis [Re: inski]
#23733083 - 10/13/16 03:11 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
inski said: Probably by looking at the bottom of the plate.
Yes, that's where you'll find it typically. I think good cultures produce a lot of color, and weak ones not so much.
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krypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
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Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: Claviceps Paspali contaminating Psilocybe Cubensis [Re: Mr.Caterpillar]
#23733558 - 10/13/16 09:29 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Oh, I didn't realize OP was saying that. I thought someone was seeing the bottom of the plate from that pic somehow. Is it that deep red/brown color?
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Mr.Caterpillar
Curiouser & Curiouser!



Registered: 07/28/07
Posts: 233
Loc: Wonderland
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
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Re: Claviceps Paspali contaminating Psilocybe Cubensis [Re: krypto2000]
#23733982 - 10/13/16 12:46 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
krypto2000 said: Is it that deep red/brown color?
What? The bottom of the plate? No, there's no color on the bottom of this plate - not last time I checked. Now it is in the fridge.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,276
Last seen: 5 hours, 25 minutes
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Re: Claviceps Paspali contaminating Psilocybe Cubensis [Re: Mr.Caterpillar]
#23750862 - 10/19/16 12:14 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Maybe you should spend the $25 and get the DNA sequenced at http://alvalab.es. I kind of doubt it's Claviceps.
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