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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) * 1
    #23690929 - 09/29/16 03:03 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

http://www.alternet.org/human-rights/shocking-federal-court-rules-you-can-be-denied-job-if-you-have-dreadlocks


In a blow to equal rights in workplaces everywhere in America, a federal appeals court ruled September 15 that rescinding a job offer based on a candidate's refusal to remove her dreadlocks does not constitute racial discrimination on the part of an employer.

The 11th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled 3-0 against an Equal Employment Opportunity Commission suit brought on behalf of Chastity Jones. In 2010, Jones was preparing to start a position at Catastrophe Management Systems, an insurance claims processing company, when the human resources department explained the offer came with some specific strings attached. Apparently, Jones could only work at CMS if she agreed to remove her dreadlocks, which a white HR manager claimed violated the company's grooming policy because they “tend to get messy.” Jones refused, and the offer was rescinded.

She then complained to the EEOC, which filed the suit in 2010. The suit argues that withdrawing the job offer constitutes racial discrimination because "dreadlocks are a manner of wearing the hair that is physiologically and culturally associated with people of African descent," therefore the company's demands were not simply a matter of hairstyle restriction, but of racial discrimination. The EEOC called race "a social construct" with "no biological definition." They also argued: "If a white person chose to wear dreadlocks as a sign of racial support for her black colleagues, and the employer applied its dreadlocks ban to that person, she too could assert a race-based disparate treatment claim.”As the Wall Street Journal reported, Catastrophe Management Systems' lawyers accused the EEOC of "indulging in 'novel theories' about race and culture that sounded like a sociological thesis on critical theory, not a valid legal argument."

The court, unfortunately, agreed. Federal law may prohibit discrimination on the basis of race, under Title VII, but courts continue to perform legal gymnastics trying to determine what consitutes said discrimination. A 2014 ruling, which this case upheld, stated that racial discrimination had to be based on "immutable" characteristics—that is, something that can't change, like skin color. The court decided that hairstyles were in fact mutable and that because Jones could physically change her hairstyle, it was legal for CMS to rescind her contract.

Judge Adalberto Jordan admitted that the differences between mutable and immutable are "fine and divisive" and that "there have been some calls for courts to interpret Title VII more expansively by eliminating the biological conception of ‘race’ and encompassing cultural characteristics associated with race.Apparently, however, he could not bring himself to heed this call, and ruled in favor of the company. The EEOC told the Wall Street Journal it is exploring further options.

There was no word on whether any white job applicants were ever rejected by CMS for their "messy" hair.


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InvisibleHobozen
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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Seriously_trippin] * 2
    #23690937 - 09/29/16 03:07 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I just met a guy with dreads. Total scumbag.


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #23690941 - 09/29/16 03:09 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Companies have a great deal of discretion when it comes to hiring.  They say they are equal rights employers but we know that it's a crock of steaming shit.  They just find some other excuse to not hire someone they don't feel is a good fit.  It's very difficult to make someone do business with someone they don't care for.


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InvisibleCowb0yNeal00
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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Seriously_trippin] * 2
    #23690965 - 09/29/16 03:17 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

zombi3 has dreadlocks


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Cowb0yNeal00] * 3
    #23690973 - 09/29/16 03:18 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Good point.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #23691106 - 09/29/16 04:11 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
http://www.alternet.org/human-rights/shocking-federal-court-rules-you-can-be-denied-job-if-you-have-dreadlocks


In a blow to equal rights in workplaces everywhere in America, a federal appeals court ruled September 15 that rescinding a job offer based on a candidate's refusal to remove her dreadlocks does not constitute racial discrimination on the part of an employer.






why do all the articles have stock photos of people with dreadlocks?


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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23691220 - 09/29/16 04:59 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I saw a worker with dreads recently at the store
It seems pretty gross


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Invisibleabltsandwich
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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #23691254 - 09/29/16 05:09 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Hillary Clinton would do away with right-to-work stuff like this if she's the leader our reptilian overlords choose to take us into the next phase.


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InvisibleHobozen
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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23691261 - 09/29/16 05:10 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Most of them have gross personalities too, at least ime.. snobs

I've met some really cool people with dreads tho


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InvisibleI_was_the_walrus
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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Seriously_trippin] * 1
    #23691262 - 09/29/16 05:11 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

If I walked into the hospital for surgery and my doctor had dread locks, I'd probably turn around and walk right out.


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Invisibleabltsandwich
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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: I_was_the_walrus]
    #23691271 - 09/29/16 05:12 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

If you walked into a hospital, you probably didn't need the surgery in the first place.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #23691277 - 09/29/16 05:13 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

They can't stop you from dreading your pubes or ass hair


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InvisibleHobozen
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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #23691279 - 09/29/16 05:14 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

>Apparently, Jones could only work at CMS if she agreed to remove her dreadlocks, which a white HR manager claimed violated the company's grooming policy because they “tend to get messy.” Jones refused, and the offer was rescinded.

Can someone explain what the problem is here? If a company owner doesn't want dreads, so what? It's their business.. I haven't read the rest of the article.so correct me if I'm wrong.


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InvisibleHobozen
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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Repertoire89]
    #23691284 - 09/29/16 05:15 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
They can't stop you from dreading your pubes or ass hair




Porn industry... could get worse :lol:


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Invisibleabltsandwich
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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Hobozen]
    #23691290 - 09/29/16 05:16 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Anyone who equates a hairstyle with performance is probably autistic, if not a downy

HAIR LOOKS LIKE BUSKETTI!  NOM NOM NOM


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InvisibleHobozen
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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: abltsandwich]
    #23691294 - 09/29/16 05:18 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Performance isn't everything.

Was that even a serious answer?


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Invisibleabltsandwich
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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Hobozen]
    #23691300 - 09/29/16 05:21 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Performance is everything at a job, absolutely.  Literally everything falls under the performance category.  Anyone judging a hairstyle on a future employee is judging future performance on a hairstyle by definition.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: abltsandwich] * 2
    #23691315 - 09/29/16 05:26 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I mean, can't an employer deny a person a job for like, any reason whatsoever...?


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InvisibleHobozen
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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: abltsandwich]
    #23691320 - 09/29/16 05:28 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

What if someone shaped their hair into a cock? Would that fall under the performance category?


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Invisibleabltsandwich
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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Hobozen]
    #23691324 - 09/29/16 05:30 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Not everyone wants to look like you :smile:

Quote:

morrowasted said:
I mean, can't an employer deny a person a job for like, any reason whatsoever...?




So?  That doesn't contradict anything I've posted at all.


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InvisibleHobozen
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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: morrowasted]
    #23691325 - 09/29/16 05:31 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
I mean, can't an employer deny a person a job for like, any reason whatsoever...?




That's not PC bro


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InvisibleHobozen
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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: abltsandwich]
    #23691327 - 09/29/16 05:32 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I can be a cock, but your argument is still shit.


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Invisibleabltsandwich
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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Hobozen]
    #23691329 - 09/29/16 05:33 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

My argument that hairstyle doesn't necessarily dictate performance is shit?
LOL
Prove me wrong, show me some stats that 100% correlate a specific hairstyle with diminished performance in a given job.  I won't wait though, because you'll be searching forever.  But let me know...


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InvisibleHobozen
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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: abltsandwich]
    #23691344 - 09/29/16 05:39 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

That's not the argument.


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Invisibleabltsandwich
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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Hobozen]
    #23691355 - 09/29/16 05:42 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

OK, Quote me saying anything else?
Here's a hint:  My argument hasn't changed at all, and your reading comprehension of what I'm saying is low.


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InvisibleHobozen
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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: abltsandwich]
    #23691426 - 09/29/16 06:00 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Do you remember my original post you replied to?

Thr argument is why an employer shouldnt have the right to choose who he hires. Do you have an answer?


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InvisibleBigfeely123
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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #23691461 - 09/29/16 06:08 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Dreadlocks look unprofessional as fuck. If I was the hiring manager I wouldn't have hired her ass either. That's life... Don't like it then find a job working at pizza hut or something.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #23691492 - 09/29/16 06:15 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

The court got that one right.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Enlil]
    #23691513 - 09/29/16 06:19 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

i call people with dreadlocks Fuzzie-Wuzzie...haha, they aren't people.


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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Hobozen]
    #23691534 - 09/29/16 06:22 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Hobozen said:
Do you remember my original post you replied to?

Thr argument is why an employer shouldnt have the right to choose who he hires. Do you have an answer?




As far as that reply, I simply typed in the reply box at the bottom of the thread without reading yours at all.  Unfortunately, the forum software defaults the reply to the last poster in the thread, which happened to be you that time.  I never made the argument you think I did.
Do I have an answer to your direct question?  Yes.  I'm mostly apathetic to the specific topic in a legal sense and the "right" you reference is at a state level, which is part of the larger question of states' autonomy, with which I generally agree on a fundamental level.  If I didn't agree with that, I couldn't agree with a states' right to make pot legal either.  So there.  That's the argument you think I posted.


Edited by abltsandwich (09/29/16 06:27 PM)


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InvisibleJean-guy Masta
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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23691549 - 09/29/16 06:25 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

dreadlocks is the natural human hair style :shrug:


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Jean-guy Masta]
    #23691556 - 09/29/16 06:26 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

All hairstyles are natural.


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Jean-guy Masta]
    #23691559 - 09/29/16 06:26 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

abltsandwich said:
Quote:

Hobozen said:
Do you remember my original post you replied to?

Thr argument is why an employer shouldnt have the right to choose who he hires. Do you have an answer?




As far as that reply, I simply typed in the reply box at the bottom of the thread without reading yours at all.  Unfortunately, the forum software defaults the reply to the last poster in the thread, which happened to be you that time.  I never made the argument you think I did.




That kinda mistake happens often
Quote:

Jean-guy Masta said:
dreadlocks is the natural human hair style :shrug:




If you go without a shower for a long time


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Hobozen] * 1
    #23691561 - 09/29/16 06:27 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Hobozen said:
What if someone shaped their hair into a cock? Would that fall under the performance category?






now that ain't natural, unless....you sleep in multiple dimensions.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23691572 - 09/29/16 06:28 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

It would suck if you had naturally curly "afro" type hair though, it means you'd have to spend 1-2 hours every morning styling your hair and perming the shit out of it just to look "clean" for work. All I have to do is brush my hair and many mornings I don't even do that and I look just fine.


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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: abltsandwich]
    #23691582 - 09/29/16 06:30 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

abltsandwich said:
My argument that hairstyle doesn't necessarily dictate performance is shit?
LOL
Prove me wrong, show me some stats that 100% correlate a specific hairstyle with diminished performance in a given job.  I won't wait though, because you'll be searching forever.  But let me know...




So you think someone someone in a high profile sales position would perform just as well with dreads as without? What about a public relations representative? There are many jobs that your appearance can affect your performance. Not necessarily because a person with dreads would behave differently, but because it affects the way customers perceive them.

I can't show you a study because maybe one has never been done before. Show me a study that shows hairstyle or even appearance can't affect job performance.


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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) *DELETED* [Re: Crystal G] * 1
    #23691585 - 09/29/16 06:30 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by Enlil

Reason for deletion: Not pub-appropriate.



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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: searching]
    #23691591 - 09/29/16 06:31 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

The word "necessarily," right there clear as day in the first sentence I typed, is paramount in my reply to everything you just said.
Hairstyle can also affect soldier's vision in a war scenario.  So?


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Crystal G]
    #23691593 - 09/29/16 06:31 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

can't you just put it under the tap, and like, go looking like Morticia, like you come crawling out from some fountain.

that'll save time.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: stzacrack]
    #23691597 - 09/29/16 06:32 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Let's see how you look :flowstone:


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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: searching]
    #23691607 - 09/29/16 06:34 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

http://m.pms.sagepub.com/content/71/2/563.short

Here is a study that correlates obesity to poor sales performance. So now show me something that says appearance doesn't affect job performance.


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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: searching]
    #23691612 - 09/29/16 06:35 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Straw man.  We're talking about hairstyle.  Next!


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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: abltsandwich]
    #23691627 - 09/29/16 06:38 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Do you think if a study was done the same way with dreadlocks that there would be different results? If I misunderstood your argument then I apologize. I still say that having dreadlocks would absolutely affect job performance in a sales position.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: abltsandwich]
    #23691630 - 09/29/16 06:39 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Everybody knows being successful in sales is a combination of good looks with an outrageous personality. Somebody bubbly, outgoing, humorous, friendly, and fast-paced is the stereotypical sales pusher.

I wonder though, if you can legally discriminate somebody over having bad acne. After all, I can only imagine that people with bad acne tend to do worse in sales positions... but acne is technically considered a medical condition. Soooooo probably not?


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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Crystal G]
    #23691639 - 09/29/16 06:40 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

And yet, retail sales on the internet increase every year with no salesmen attached.  It seems the entire concept is old trash.


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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Crystal G]
    #23691645 - 09/29/16 06:41 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Everybody knows being successful in sales is a combination of good looks with an outrageous personality. Somebody bubbly, outgoing, humorous, friendly, and fast-paced is the stereotypical sales pusher.

I wonder though, if you can legally discriminate somebody over having bad acne. After all, I can only imagine that people with bad acne tend to do worse in sales positions... but acne is technically considered a medical condition. Soooooo probably not?




You don't see many girls in porn with acne?


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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: searching]
    #23691719 - 09/29/16 06:59 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

searching said:
http://m.pms.sagepub.com/content/71/2/563.short

Here is a study that correlates obesity to poor sales performance. So now show me something that says appearance doesn't affect job performance.



are you suggesting that abiding by human stupidity is a worthwhile endeavor?

if someones appearance makes it so they can't serve you...you're being retarded.


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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23691726 - 09/29/16 07:00 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

So, you expect the employer to take the intellectual high ground and lose his business, home, etc. for it?


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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: abltsandwich]
    #23691727 - 09/29/16 07:01 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/university-study-concludes-hairstyles-make-or-break-your-first-impression-71414332.html

Here is an article about linking hairstyles and first impressions. I'm trying to find the original university study they are talking about. If you don't think first impressions can affect sales performance then I don't know what to tell you.

Quote:

abltsandwich said:
And yet, retail sales on the internet increase every year with no salesmen attached.  It seems the entire concept is old trash.




Where did Internet sales come from? The question is will two identical twins, one with dreadlocks, perform the same in a sales position? I'm not talking about retail sales either. I work in manufacturing and our sales people talk to potential customers about getting new business potentially worth millions of dollars. Do you think that a CEO coming in and meeting with a sales person with dreadlocks is really not going to have a negative first impression?

Honestly, tell me do you really believe that?


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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Enlil]
    #23691740 - 09/29/16 07:02 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

no. it's just i don't condone abiding by statistical stupidity as a prove of something of import being pointed to. if it's being pointed at by people whom are stupid, how can one trust this asseveration of it? stupid people do not know what they are doing, by definition.


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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23691754 - 09/29/16 07:04 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
Quote:

searching said:
http://m.pms.sagepub.com/content/71/2/563.short

Here is a study that correlates obesity to poor sales performance. So now show me something that says appearance doesn't affect job performance.



are you suggesting that abiding by human stupidity is a worthwhile endeavor?

if someones appearance makes it so they can't serve you...you're being retarded.




I didn't say anything about abiding by human stupidity. The question is can a person in a high profile sales position with dreads perform the same as someone without dreads?


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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23691759 - 09/29/16 07:06 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I actually don't think hairstyle affects somebody's work performance nearly as much as obesity does. I mean it's one thing to have a bright blue 2-foot mohawk or something, but dreads still look relatively natural.

IME personality matters much more than looks when it comes to sales. Somebody with dreads who has a charismatic and explosive persona is going to perform a lot better than somebody who looks "perfect" but is awkward and introverted.

There's a guy at the VW dealership who looks like a skinhead and has full sleeve tattoos that he doesn't cover up, he also has a bit of a beer gut, yet he got salesman of the year and outperformed everybody in the nation.


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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Crystal G] * 1
    #23691765 - 09/29/16 07:07 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Of course, it's a German car.  Skinheads are very popular among the Nazi-sympathizers.


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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Crystal G]
    #23691768 - 09/29/16 07:08 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

We live in a shallow world.  Appearance matters. First impression is everything.


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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Morel Guy]
    #23691801 - 09/29/16 07:15 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

It completely depends on who your target market or consumer audience is. Probably if you are selling Italian hand-tailored suits, you will want to look very clean cut and neat.

But if you are selling Harley Davidson's, it is probably okay and maybe even preferable to have a beard and a couple tattoos.


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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Morel Guy]
    #23691803 - 09/29/16 07:15 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
We live in a shallow world.  Appearance matters. First impression is everything.




Exactly. I'm not saying it's fair. I would be pissed if I got refused a job for my appearance. But the question is, is it legal? Yes it is. Unless we're talking about appearance items related to protected religious groups. For example... Someone wearing one of those funny towels on their head because of their religion.

But that's just my understanding from 10 minutes of reading on the Internet. Ask enlil. He's the lawyer.


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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Crystal G]
    #23691806 - 09/29/16 07:17 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

True.  I think culture is kinda scewd.  Bud tenders and all that, authority over a culture yet it kinda polices.

Just look at social media


Edited by Morel Guy (09/29/16 07:18 PM)


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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Crystal G]
    #23691808 - 09/29/16 07:17 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
It completely depends on who your target market or consumer audience is. Probably if you are selling Italian hand-tailored suits, you will want to look very clean cut and neat.

But if you are selling Harley Davidson's, it is probably okay and maybe even preferable to have a beard and a couple tattoos.




Haha, yeah I was thinking dreads could actually improve sales performance if you work in a weed store.


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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: searching]
    #23691813 - 09/29/16 07:18 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

searching said:

I didn't say anything about abiding by human stupidity. The question is can a person in a high profile sales position with dreads perform the same as someone without dreads?



who cares what you said, literally; figuratively, that's what you mean, you think that how someone identifies with someones appearance, is a factor a in sales; i'm simply pointing out you're abiding by this notion that that is a legitimate position to take (that because someone's appearance is off-putting, [in any non-offensive way; but you see where i'm going with this? offensive dreadlocks?], and if someone's appearance is off-putting, this should invariably reduce sales, as per statistical data.

thing is, that data proves only one thing, for certain, other then the trend...it proves that people are stupid. because that trend is the definition of stupid.

no one's appearance, in the modern world, should offend anyone, unless it has purposeful intentional offence to it, like vulgarity.

and yes, dreads do not affect performance. sales performance as per defined by you, is something that is inanimate and has not human quality...but human sales performance, as per the human's ability to be a good sales person, yes, no marked decrease in ability.

his dread locks may affect his sales, but only with the most stupid god awful people that need to perish already, that are on the planet. vanity is a very stupid human trait.

and by perish, i mean, change, they need to change, and stop being idiots.


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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: searching]
    #23691818 - 09/29/16 07:19 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

searching said:
Exactly. I'm not saying it's fair. I would be pissed if I got refused a job for my appearance. But the question is, is it legal? Yes it is. Unless we're talking about appearance items related to protected religious groups. For example... Someone wearing one of those funny towels on their head because of their religion.

But that's just my understanding from 10 minutes of reading on the Internet. Ask enlil. He's the lawyer.




Some people have been arguing in recent years, that having afro or curly hair is natural for black people, and it is therefore racial discrimination to not allow these types of hair in the workforce.


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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Crystal G]
    #23691822 - 09/29/16 07:21 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

All hairstyles are natural.


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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: searching]
    #23691831 - 09/29/16 07:22 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)



HOW DARE YOU DENY ME A JOB?!?!?!

I'm sure some lib fucking retarded court will say it's unconstitutional


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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #23691835 - 09/29/16 07:23 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

ok, hyperbole man. that prison guy is already gonna have enough trouble as it is without the cuff face.


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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23691846 - 09/29/16 07:25 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

You can get disability for a facial tattoo.  Disability doesn't pay a mortgage though.


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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Crystal G] * 1
    #23691852 - 09/29/16 07:26 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I could definitely see that. I guess that's why the lawyer in the article tried to link it to African Americans. I'd argue that the choice is yours to either have dreads or not, and is no different than choosing to shave or not shave, or wash your hair or not. White people can have dreads too. It's not a race thing.


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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Morel Guy]
    #23691857 - 09/29/16 07:28 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
You can get disability for a facial tattoo.  Disability doesn't pay a mortgage though.




You're doing it wrong

I know a guy on disability, he collects a nice check every month, AND his wife gets paid about 30$/HR (from the state) to take care of him, 40 hours a week, it's a nice scam, they been doing it for about nine years.


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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: searching]
    #23691863 - 09/29/16 07:29 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

searching said:
I could definitely see that. I guess that's why the lawyer in the article tried to link it to African Americans. I'd argue that the choice is yours to either have dreads or not, and is no different than choosing to shave or not shave, or wash your hair or not. White people can have dreads too. It's not a race thing.




Yup, no beards in oil and gas industry, shave or go home


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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #23691884 - 09/29/16 07:37 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

searching said:
I could definitely see that. I guess that's why the lawyer in the article tried to link it to African Americans. I'd argue that the choice is yours to either have dreads or not, and is no different than choosing to shave or not shave, or wash your hair or not. White people can have dreads too. It's not a race thing.




Yup, no beards in oil and gas industry, shave or go home




Not entirely true although i recall my dad shaving for a job.  He had a beard for most of his work life.


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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Crystal G] * 2
    #23691895 - 09/29/16 07:42 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

It's called "grooming" for a reason.  If "natural" was protected, deodorant, clothes, etc. couldn't be required.  Frankly, I think employers should be free to discriminate based on whatever traits they want.  If they don't want to hire black people, so be it.  Let them get their asses kicked in the free market because of that policy.

Making discrimination illegal only means that discrimination is sneakier and hidden.  As a result, the public doesn't become aware of it.  That only allows the employer to keep doing whatever they want.


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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #23691907 - 09/29/16 07:46 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

Morel Guy said:
You can get disability for a facial tattoo.  Disability doesn't pay a mortgage though.




You're doing it wrong

I know a guy on disability, he collects a nice check every month, AND his wife gets paid about 30$/HR (from the state) to take care of him, 40 hours a week, it's a nice scam, they been doing it for about nine years.




Disability checks aren't that much, you get paid $600-$700 a month max. Is his wife a registered nurse or something?


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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Enlil]
    #23691914 - 09/29/16 07:48 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Making discrimination illegal only means that discrimination is sneakier and hidden.  As a result, the public doesn't become aware of it.  That only allows the employer to keep doing whatever they want.



if it's hidden, it's not as prominent, no? :shrug:


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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Enlil]
    #23691934 - 09/29/16 07:52 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
It's called "grooming" for a reason.  If "natural" was protected, deodorant, clothes, etc. couldn't be required.




Deodorant only takes 2 seconds to put on though. I can see why people would be bothered over strict guidelines about unkempt hair in the workplace.

Especially for women, if they have long naturally curly or frizzy hair, that basically means they'd have to spend 1 to 2 hours every morning just styling or straightening their hair to make it acceptable for workplace guidelines. It's a very time-consuming process.




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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Crystal G]
    #23691966 - 09/29/16 08:02 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Then get a job in a coal mine :shrug:


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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Hobozen]
    #23691978 - 09/29/16 08:06 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Hobozen said:
Most of them have gross personalities too, at least ime.. snobs

I've met some really cool people with dreads tho






I know a really cool dude with dreadlocks(white dude too) who was responsible for my first acid trip, so I can't hate too hard.

However, I come across a lot of nasty crust punks with dreads too :shrug:


In the end, people are people, yo. On a mass scale you can't use the ideas of good or bad, it's just..people.


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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: pirate-blues]
    #23692346 - 09/29/16 09:41 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I see a girl around with dreads,white beggar with a dog,always has some sign saying "gotta get back home need bus ticket" while her jeep is parked 20 feet away,always has a guy who looks like lil wayne waiting around for her,really awful ppl,that's her life, not working but begging


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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: pirate-blues]
    #23692378 - 09/29/16 09:50 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

pirate-blues said:
Quote:

Hobozen said:
Most of them have gross personalities too, at least ime.. snobs

I've met some really cool people with dreads tho






I know a really cool dude with dreadlocks(white dude too) who was responsible for my first acid trip, so I can't hate too hard.

However, I come across a lot of nasty crust punks with dreads too :shrug:


In the end, people are people, yo. On a mass scale you can't use the ideas of good or bad, it's just..people.




People are individuals.Can't judge someone based on their looks. One of
my best.most chillest friends had dreads.


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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Enlil]
    #23692436 - 09/29/16 10:09 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
It's called "grooming" for a reason.  If "natural" was protected, deodorant, clothes, etc. couldn't be required.  Frankly, I think employers should be free to discriminate based on whatever traits they want.  If they don't want to hire black people, so be it.  Let them get their asses kicked in the free market because of that policy.

Making discrimination illegal only means that discrimination is sneakier and hidden.  As a result, the public doesn't become aware of it.  That only allows the employer to keep doing whatever they want.




I've actually been saying the same thing for awhile


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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Crystal G]
    #23692554 - 09/29/16 10:47 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
It's called "grooming" for a reason.  If "natural" was protected, deodorant, clothes, etc. couldn't be required.




Deodorant only takes 2 seconds to put on though. I can see why people would be bothered over strict guidelines about unkempt hair in the workplace.

Especially for women, if they have long naturally curly or frizzy hair, that basically means they'd have to spend 1 to 2 hours every morning just styling or straightening their hair to make it acceptable for workplace guidelines. It's a very time-consuming process.





why would they have to straighten their hair? curly hair isnt the same as dread locks


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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Enlil]
    #23692654 - 09/29/16 11:29 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Ssying it's unprofessional is true in some professions (say banker or sandwich maker) but the guy that works at zumiez should be able to look like whatever the fuck he/she wants to.


Also people are saying this could branch out into racist managers being able to profile blacks for "knappy hair". I'm not sure about that but that's an issue with people


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Re: Federal court rules employers can deny a job if a person has dreadlocks. (Real) [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23692739 - 09/30/16 12:17 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
It's called "grooming" for a reason.  If "natural" was protected, deodorant, clothes, etc. couldn't be required.




Deodorant only takes 2 seconds to put on though. I can see why people would be bothered over strict guidelines about unkempt hair in the workplace.

Especially for women, if they have long naturally curly or frizzy hair, that basically means they'd have to spend 1 to 2 hours every morning just styling or straightening their hair to make it acceptable for workplace guidelines. It's a very time-consuming process.





why would they have to straighten their hair? curly hair isnt the same as dread locks




Stereotypical black hair isn't curly either, it's frizzy and unkempt. They would either have to put rollers in their hair and perm it to make it look curly, or they'd have to straight-perm their hair and straighten their hair to make it straight. Either method is a very time-consuming process.


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