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13shrooms
Lightning Shaman



Registered: 01/01/09
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Easy Bulk for Beginners (No PC required) 11
#23688752 - 09/28/16 10:16 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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13shrooms
Lightning Shaman



Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 26,719
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Re: Easy Bulk for Beginners (No PC required) [Re: 13shrooms]
#23692996 - 09/30/16 05:10 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Munchauzen


Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 14,342
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Re: Easy Bulk for Beginners (No PC required) [Re: 13shrooms]
#23693640 - 09/30/16 10:17 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thanks for sharing
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mrmazdarx9
Pffffttt


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Re: Easy Bulk for Beginners (No PC required) [Re: Munchauzen]
#23693803 - 09/30/16 11:27 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Nice work
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joey
Sunshine Recorder



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Re: Easy Bulk for Beginners (No PC required) [Re: mrmazdarx9]
#23693897 - 09/30/16 12:15 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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It's a cool idea in theory, but I've found that even with spawning to bulk. I got around the same amount in the end, by just putting the cakes in a proper SGFC.
I've only used coir/verm. haven't tested other subs with this tek.
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13shrooms
Lightning Shaman



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Re: Easy Bulk for Beginners (No PC required) [Re: joey]
#23694015 - 09/30/16 01:03 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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not me, Im lucky to get an 1/8oz off a cake so I would need at least 8 for an OZ as to where I can get 6-10oz first flush with a monotub. I would need 48-80 cakes to equal that. 
not that I use cakes anymore, Im a rye grain guy myself 
But besides all that how would you know?  you just started your first mono a week ago and have only done pf tek b4 that.. dont know what youve been doing for the last 13 years since you signed up?... 
the best method is Do what works for you.
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tripdawg420
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Re: Easy Bulk for Beginners (No PC required) [Re: 13shrooms]
#23694188 - 09/30/16 02:18 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
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Re: Easy Bulk for Beginners (No PC required) [Re: tripdawg420]
#23694229 - 09/30/16 02:35 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Cakes have a finicky water dynamic that often takes people some time to figure out. Cakes to bulk can help with that, especially for people who live in dry climates like I do. If I had known you could spawn cakes I might not have switched to bulk immediately after my first attempt at pf tek.
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Ferather
Mycological



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Re: Easy Bulk for Beginners (No PC required) [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23694534 - 09/30/16 04:26 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Cake > All natural fruiting tek. Screw humidity and misting. Water and walk away, water once every 24 hours.
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SloppyJoseph
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Re: Easy Bulk for Beginners (No PC required) [Re: Ferather]
#23694592 - 09/30/16 04:48 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Why no peaking during colonization? It really doesn't matter if you open the lid for a few seconds to check on the status. Checking as much as once a day isn't even an issue, but I suppose if you are opening that lid 10 times a day it could cause issues.
Thanks for sharing though 13, it's good to have this laid out for people because the option gets thrown around for people a lot but not much explanation in teks and such.
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invitro

Registered: 05/03/13
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Re: Easy Bulk for Beginners (No PC required) [Re: 13shrooms]
#23694767 - 09/30/16 05:49 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
13shrooms said: not me, Im lucky to get an 1/8oz off a cake so I would need at least 8 for an OZ as to where I can get 6-10oz first flush with a monotub. I would need 48-80 cakes to equal that. 
not that I use cakes anymore, Im a rye grain guy myself 
But besides all that how would you know?  you just started your first mono a week ago and have only done pf tek b4 that.. dont know what youve been doing for the last 13 years since you signed up?... 
the best method is Do what works for you. 
I'm a little unclear about expected yields on this method.. you're saying 1/8 per pf cake if your lucky, what is the yield per pf cake when spawning to bulk?
Edited by invitro (09/30/16 05:50 PM)
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13shrooms
Lightning Shaman



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Re: Easy Bulk for Beginners (No PC required) [Re: invitro]
#23695374 - 09/30/16 08:41 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: If I had known you could spawn cakes I might not have switched to bulk immediately after my first attempt at pf tek.
this
the exact reason I made this. 
Quote:
invitro said:
I'm a little unclear about expected yields on this method.. you're saying 1/8 per pf cake if your lucky, what is the yield per pf cake when spawning to bulk?
no clue per cake but with the amount of cakes used I more than double expected yields from just fruiting the cakes whole.
maybe Im a shitty cake cultivator but this is just a step towards learning bulk b4 diving into grains and PCs etc.. most start with cakes and this is bulk with cakes. 
but to answer your question as best I can, that depends on numerous things, if you inocd with MS or an isolate first off. with an isolate you can expect the same or very similar outcomes but with MS is totally random.
LOW end an OZ or 2, high end (if you have a proven high yield isolate) around 10-12 OZs. I avg 6-8 first flush with 10-16 dry oz by the time I toss it out 
everyones environment varies from region to region and house to house. what works for me might not work for you but thats the cool thing about this hobby, you can tweak environments and play god with isolates to make your strain do what you want using agar. any cube can be as potent as you want or perform how you want and look how you want with agar work and strain isolation work. time and dedication is all it takes.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21032261#21032261
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nobody83
stranger danger


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Re: Easy Bulk for Beginners (No PC required) [Re: 13shrooms]
#23695696 - 09/30/16 10:15 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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nice write up
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Lobi
Bushido



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Re: Easy Bulk for Beginners (No PC required) [Re: 13shrooms]
#23695742 - 09/30/16 10:28 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Lobi said: Whats good fam, this is my first attempt at starting a thread on .org. I wanted to write something on how to move on from pf tek>SGFC for people stuck on pf tek, stuck on brf, afraid to get into agar and grains, dont have a PC, etc etc. Just trying bridge gaps for the less experienced.
I also see a lot of shit talking on brf and cakes as well so I wanted to come to its defense.
Before we go on I would like to say that as a noob you should definitely start with agar. I think spores>agar>grain>bulk is not only the easiest, but fastest and most cost effective way of starting a bulk grow for your first time. But this is just another way to get somewhat the same result with needing less experience, recourse and equipment. 
WHY YOU SHOULD START WITH AGAR
I turned 7 half pint cakes into 35 half pints(8.7 qt) of spawn by following Eatyoualive's Lazy Mofo Bag Tek. I will be spawning this to two 27qt mini mono tubs and a cooking tray with 2.5qt of substrate. Each minimono has 6qt of substrate and 3 brf bags, about 15 half pints or 3.75qt of brf cake.

- Here is my thing with this tek. I really enjoy letting them fruit in a sgfc, but it normally takes about 14-20 to see any pins after transferring. where as it only takes 3 days to fully colonize. So its use is better fit for spawn in my opinion. (Picture day 1 vs 3)

I inoculated the pf jars on 4/24 with LC. I expanded to bags on 5/04 a few days after they were fully colonized. I spawned the bags into the mini monos and tray on 5/09.
I followed Pastywhyte's Minimono write on these two 27 qt totes. I lined one tub and did not line the other. For substrate I am using 40/40/20 mix of hpoo/coir/verm. You can just use coir following bucket tek or whatever sub you prefer. I followed Eats Easy Oven Pasteurization 123 Tek for the substrate pasteurization.
Here is a picture of the brf bag cake out of the bag

I crumbled 3 of these cakes into 6qt of sub with a liner, mixed evenly and then did a tiny cover of sub on top.

For the other one I shredded 3 of the cakes with a cheese grater into 6qt of substrate, mixed evenly then finished with the top layer of sub.

Here is a picture of the tray(I'm messy lol)

Here is myc pushing through the top layer of the sub in the crumbled tub with the liner 36 hours after spawning. The other picture is the side view from the tub that I cheese grated 36 hours after spawning.

I will continue to update as the grow progresses. 
UPDATE; 5/12
Day 3 Tray fully colonized, had a bit of pooling so I used a papertowel to help it out. Myc pushing through the top of layer of sub in the lined mini, which was crumbled. Myc barely pushing through the grated mini with no liner. Also side view of colonization in tub with no liner.

UPDATE; 5/15
Day 6 Myc pushing through the sub casing layers. side view, for some reason that blob of sub isnt colonizing.

UPDATE; 5/19
Day 10 Both tubs almost at 100% colonization of the sub casing layers. The tub with the liner looks like a frosty fucking winter. Their is still this little bit of slow progressing sub, but besides that the exterior of the tub is fully colonized.

UPDATE; 5/21
Day 12 Knots and a few pins in both tubs so i threw them into fruiting conditions. no knots on the tray but i put it in the sgfc anyway.

UPDATE; 5/24
Day 15 Fruiting Day 3 Pinset on crumbled tub looking really nice. just a few tiny pins on the tub I cheese grated. I noticed crumbling is faster colonization and better pinset with this method. The tray has hyphal knots on it but my camera doesnt have good enough quality to capture it. will post pics when it pins.

UPDATE; 5/25
Day 16 Fruiting Day 4
First two images are the mono with the liner which I crumbled. fungi looking beautiful. BUHBOOM.  Second two images are the mono with no liner which i cheese grated. Not looking too promising but we will see how it plays out.

UPDATE; 5/26
Day 17 Fruiting Day 5
The first three images are the tub with no liner which I cheese grated. Not too many mushies but theyre still looking good. lots of side pins on this one. this is why we use liners but sometimes its rather annoying to deal with liners. For this write I made one with liner and one with out a liner for the sake of easy identification and to show colonization for noobs.
Here is the fun one that I crumbled and used a liner. looking b e a u t i f u l  I also noticed this little double head mutant which was pretty cool.

UPDATE; 5/27
Day 19 Fruiting Day 7
Here is the tub with no liner which i cheese grated. nothing too crazy but still a lovely amount of beautiful fruit. I love that they all have so much mycelium on the caps from rupturing out of the sub.
HARVESTING 
484 for the first flush, buhboom. 
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13shrooms
Lightning Shaman



Registered: 01/01/09
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Re: Easy Bulk for Beginners (No PC required) [Re: SloppyJoseph]
#23695753 - 09/30/16 10:31 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
SloppyJoseph said: Why no peaking during colonization? It really doesn't matter if you open the lid for a few seconds to check on the status. Checking as much as once a day isn't even an issue, but I suppose if you are opening that lid 10 times a day it could cause issues..
Quote:
RR says *High CO2 levels are beneficial during colonization. It prevents most of your substrate from being turned into CO2. Without proper covering, up to 50% or more of the carbon in your substrate will be released as CO2 gas by the mycelium. In addition, many competitor fungi can't thrive in the high CO2 environment, thus it helps favor for mushroom mycelium.
During colonization, we provide very small holes in the jars or tubs for gas exchange. We want a high CO2 environment during colonization, because this prevents the mycelium from consuming all of the substrate. The mycelium colonizes the substrate, but doesn't 'eat it all up' due to the high CO2 levels. During fruiting, we remove the covers to provide air exchange, which is at a much higher level then the minimal gas exchange provided during colonization. This increase in air exchange lowers the CO2 levels, and is a major pinning trigger. At this time, the mycelium begins to consume the substrate it has previously colonized, and we notice during fruiting that our substrates pull away from the sides of the container. This is not due to moisture loss, but rather due to the mycelium 'eating' the substrate and turning it into CO2, a waste product.
The second most important pinning trigger is an increase in air exchange, with the corresponding drop in CO2 levels that occurs simultaneously. When you uncover a tray to look at it, you allow the CO2 to escape and be replaced by fresh air. THIS is a pinning trigger, even if you do it in the dark.
During colonization, you actually want CO2 levels to be extremely high, which prevents fruiting. Upon full colonization, you increase FAE (air exchange) and expose to light at the same time. This results in a sudden and massive pinset.
One benefit of a high CO2 level during colonization is that less of the actual carbon in the substrate is converted to CO2 gas. In other words, if you allowed too much fresh air during colonization, more of the substrate would be 'consumed' by the time the mycelium got to the fruiting stage
One of the biggest pinning triggers is the sudden reduction in CO2 buildup.
it matters
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13shrooms
Lightning Shaman



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Re: Easy Bulk for Beginners (No PC required) [Re: Lobi]
#23695760 - 09/30/16 10:34 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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thats a good one also Lobi
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13shrooms
Lightning Shaman



Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 26,719
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Re: Easy Bulk for Beginners (No PC required) [Re: 13shrooms]
#23855776 - 11/21/16 09:48 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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13shrooms
Lightning Shaman



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Re: Easy Bulk for Beginners (No PC required) [Re: 13shrooms]
#24061982 - 02/03/17 05:45 AM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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Trvr
Kill your heroes.



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Re: Easy Bulk for Beginners (No PC required) [Re: 13shrooms]
#24107777 - 02/21/17 10:16 AM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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Saved for future reference.
Thanks for this!
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aghabheegy
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Re: Easy Bulk for Beginners (No PC required) [Re: Trvr]
#24186853 - 03/23/17 05:56 PM (6 years, 10 months ago) |
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Supa Cool!
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