|
Bigfeely123
Stranger
Registered: 01/30/15 
Posts: 2,594
|
If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain?
#23687909 - 09/28/16 06:41 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Or does it stem from environmental aspects?
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: Bigfeely123] 1
#23687954 - 09/28/16 06:53 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
I believe it is thought that both can be causes, either separately or in combination.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: DividedQuantum] 3
#23688005 - 09/28/16 07:08 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
DividedQuantum said: I believe it is thought that both can be causes, either separately or in combination.
My life experience, through my own experiences and the deep knowing of others, serves only to validate this standpoint.
Humans seem to like to think 'we've got it all worked out' for some reason, rather than to admit 'we know nothing'.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: DividedQuantum]
#23688027 - 09/28/16 07:14 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
mental states are characterized by some supporting chemical activity and by the specific content of experience which includes thoughts.
repetition of experience/thought etc. can produce chemical changes which will affect the persistence of the mental state.
one feeds off the other. many chemicals are involved.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
Love_spirit
Circle Of Power



Registered: 07/18/15
Posts: 1,208
Last seen: 7 months, 27 days
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: Bigfeely123]
#23688114 - 09/28/16 07:34 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
I could be in the middle of a firefight and pop a couple xstacy tabs and I would feel pretty damn good regardless. It's all a chemical situation.
|
beforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
Posts: 1,859
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: Love_spirit]
#23688167 - 09/28/16 07:44 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
The above is true.
The question is, how does the brain relate to the will?
Can we fulfill some conditions that allow the will to subjugate the brain?
Or do we inhabit this vehicle?
-------------------- Hostile humankind Can't you see you're fucking blind?
|
Cognitive_Shift
CS actual




Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,591
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: Love_spirit]
#23688168 - 09/28/16 07:45 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
I thinks it's known as a "chemical imbalance." However your environment can effect your perception of yourself and the world.
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
|
Bigfeely123
Stranger
Registered: 01/30/15 
Posts: 2,594
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: redgreenvines]
#23688222 - 09/28/16 07:55 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
I see. So one dig themselves in a deep hole little by little? I don't recall what life experience started this way of thinking for me but I do recall it began around the age of 14 and progressively got worse. Since this last move it's gotten drastically worse.
|
Cognitive_Shift
CS actual




Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,591
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: Bigfeely123]
#23688230 - 09/28/16 07:58 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
There is no one cause for depression IMO and there doesn't have to be an experience that starts it off. It's a chronic relapsing brain disease IMO.
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: Bigfeely123]
#23688237 - 09/28/16 08:00 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Bigfeely123 said: I see. So one dig themselves in a deep hole little by little? I don't recall what life experience started this way of thinking for me but I do recall it began around the age of 14 and progressively got worse. Since this last move it's gotten drastically worse.
I know this is really unpopular advice around these parts, but maybe you should talk to a doctor. No need for pills, necessarily, just talk. Can't hurt.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
Bigfeely123
Stranger
Registered: 01/30/15 
Posts: 2,594
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: DividedQuantum]
#23688333 - 09/28/16 08:26 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Every once in a while, for the past year or so, I've thought about doing that. If things don't turn around soon or get worse I think I'll have to. I've read that depression shortens one's life span. I'm depressed but I don't want to die sooner than I'm supposed to.
|
laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: Bigfeely123] 1
#23688976 - 09/28/16 11:51 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
situation thoughts and attitude biochemistry genetics
some have chronic pain, or even some on their death beds, & are not depressed.
bipolar disorder is treated chemically.
cognitive therapy, talk therapy, and meditation help some.
Isolation and loneliness affect people differently.
Some find exercise and diet also may play a part.
There are many different types of 12 step groups where people talk about their problems, and avoid high therapist's fees. I was in a group for artists once, it was 12 steps only in a very general sort of way, after meetings some of us went to the coffee shop, and developed friendships.
|
Murzelpfrumpft
pet donkey in a lucid dream

Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1,855
Last seen: 1 month, 28 days
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: laughingdog]
#23689246 - 09/29/16 03:57 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
The chemical imbalance story is basically bullshit used to sell non-working "antidepressants". The biochemical signature of depression is so complexly distributed over many neurotransmitter types, that we basically don't have a clue how it works. But we claim to, for making big money.
Usually, therapy greatly helps those who can't open themselves to others because they are ashamed or simply have nobody. For those, just talking about it usually helps a lot. It's amazing how many people just don't do this in everyday life.
For myself, I can't even remember or imagine how it is to be not depressed. It's basically ruining my life and studying psychology and reflecting a lot doesn't help shit.
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: Bigfeely123]
#23689268 - 09/29/16 04:23 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Bigfeely123 said: Or does it stem from environmental aspects?
you need to Google 'mental illness myth' and look at links, and recommended articles, books, videos, and in this way you should learn that this civilization has as its central social controlling myth the myth of mental illness which , by 'myth', is not meant that how you feel is not real, but that the 'accepted' idea that 'depression' is a biologically-caused 'chemical imbalance' is a hoax. Even psychiatrists are admitting this is so, though critics of the pharmo/shrink cartel have been informing about this for many many years
So OK, say you know all that but you still feel depressed, what then?
First I will ask you, are you aware of reasons why you feel so down?
|
Bigfeely123
Stranger
Registered: 01/30/15 
Posts: 2,594
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz]
#23690253 - 09/29/16 11:34 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Yes I think I do know.
|
laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: laughingdog]
#23690467 - 09/29/16 12:44 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
situation / situations thoughts / attitude / beliefs biochemistry genetics
and there is another subtle but powerful factor
http://www.openfocusattentiontraining.com/2015/02/09/attention-styles-and-personalities-traits/
|
MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 3 days
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: Bigfeely123] 2
#23690477 - 09/29/16 12:47 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
All subjective states of mind have biochemical correlates. However, correlation does not mean causation! There has not been any specific chemical discovered that is cause for clinical depression. At best, medicine has found correlations with less than optimal presence of the neurotransmitter Serotonin, so SSRI (Selective Serotonin Re-uptake Inhibitor) medicines keep Serotonin 'floating' in the synaptic space between neurons so that the Serotonin doesn't bind with the neurons but continues to conduct impulses to bring up our mood. Internal conditions that contribute to depression are called endogenous. Environmental-social conditions for depression are referred to as situational depression.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
|
404
error


Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#23690834 - 09/29/16 02:23 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I'm afraid that depression is much more complex than 'serotonin floating in the synaptic space between neurons', other neurotransmitters and receptor types may be involved, along with the immune system and certain types of genes. One that was recently identified as being an additional culprit in 5 major psychiatric disorders including depression was a gene called CACNB2 and regulates the flow of calcium in the neurons, regulating the action potentials in respective types of neurons
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: Bigfeely123]
#23690905 - 09/29/16 02:53 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
and this is what you will find. Endless searches for chemical, and genetic, etc causes for 'depression', anxiety, etc etc etc etc this is what the biomedical model shrinks and their benefactors big pharma do: pathologize feeling..............and then? ...THE DRUGS COME AND GET PUSHED!! and their profits are made. it is a BIG business. rakes in B I L L I O N S!
Why the Rise of Mental Illness? Pathologizing Normal, Adverse Drug Effects, and a Peculiar Rebellion
|
olson
Stranger

Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 386
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: 404]
#23690912 - 09/29/16 02:56 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Environmental aspects and genetic factors both give rise to the same symptoms collectively termed 'depression'. So in either case there is 'something chemically wrong with your brain'. How one gets to the point of depression will be unique to the individual. Interestingly, psychotherapy and medication both work equally well at treating endogenous and environmental depression, which is not what you would expect if they were fundamentally different from each other.
--------------------
Kinesin, a motor protein, shuttling a vesicle full of cargo such as glucose or even neurotransmitters across a cell. This little guy struts along the microtubule using ATP as fuel.
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#23691051 - 09/29/16 03:49 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: All subjective states of mind have biochemical correlates. However, correlation does not mean causation! There has not been any specific chemical discovered that is cause for clinical depression. At best, medicine has found correlations with less than optimal presence of the neurotransmitter Serotonin, so SSRI (Selective Serotonin Re-uptake Inhibitor) medicines keep Serotonin 'floating' in the synaptic space between neurons so that the Serotonin doesn't bind with the neurons but continues to conduct impulses to bring up our mood. Internal conditions that contribute to depression are called endogenous. Environmental-social conditions for depression are referred to as situational depression.
chemistry is a blunt instrument but so is language. I do not know what you mean when you say "all subjective states of mind" in the sentence "All subjective states of mind have biochemical correlates". if you do mean @@ All States Of Mind @@ as in waking, rational, dreaming, meditative, stoned, and emotional (not in any particular order) then I strongly disagree with you.
some states of mind may have some chemical foot print, especially emotional ones, but most of those states of mind are not chemically dependent (even though drugs do work and produced stoned states of mind which resemble dreaming, being in love, in meditative absorption etc.)
Attempting to treat the state of mind with incidental chemistry (at influential and mind numbing dosages) is very approximate, and gross with regard to the cause and symptoms. They grossly affect everything, and reduce symptoms by reducing large areas of function.
Usually when we sedate or disable people with mental strife, we actually provide relief for the families and nothing too significant to the afflicted. Which is not to deny that getting the family a bit more chill also directly helps heal the root cause of family induced and triggered complexes.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
demiu5
humans, lol


Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: Jokeshopbeard] 1
#23691792 - 09/29/16 07:13 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Jokeshopbeard said: Humans seem to like to think 'we've got it all worked out' for some reason, rather than to admit 'we know nothing'.
yes
ime, humans also tend to think there is only one mould from which all humans are cast. this one mould is the only one, true accurate form in which a human should appear; internally and externally. when the reality is that every single human is different biologically/genetically. while 'standards' have been drawn from millions of specimens, speculation on a specific issue may be clouded as physicians disregard often pertinent information because it does not fall in-line with the 'standards' (root or expression)
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
|
RJ Tubs 202


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA
Last seen: 19 hours, 2 minutes
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: Bigfeely123]
#23692798 - 09/30/16 12:54 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Some believe depression is highly complex in nature. Others don't.
Many people are very resistant to investigating how their thinking habits create their disturbing emotions.
All disturbing emotions (anger, rage, depression, anxiety) are rooting in thinking.
Are you willing to look at your inner environment, to find the source of your suffering?
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#23692958 - 09/30/16 04:26 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
that explanation reminds me of the new age mantra to always be 'positive thinking' and god help you if you dare to criticize a cult, a movement, any authoritarian set up, including the big society oppressing us---for that mindset it means YOUR thinking is 'too negative' and you need to meditate bla bla so in other words, thinking itself becomes a scapegoat!
|
howsyournaggerdoin
Happy


Registered: 02/04/16
Posts: 1,600
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz]
#23692971 - 09/30/16 04:44 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Depression is definitely caused by chemical imbalances. Theres nothing else in our brain but chemicals and electricity so it only makes sense.
|
Bigfeely123
Stranger
Registered: 01/30/15 
Posts: 2,594
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#23693408 - 09/30/16 08:44 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Inner environment, my mind you mean by that?
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz]
#23693438 - 09/30/16 08:54 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zzripz said: that explanation reminds me of the new age mantra to always be 'positive thinking' and god help you if you dare to criticize a cult, a movement, any authoritarian set up, including the big society oppressing us---for that mindset it means YOUR thinking is 'too negative' and you need to meditate bla bla so in other words, thinking itself becomes a scapegoat!
Mental contents are not other than that. Compare a lovely space with a messy apartment.
accordingly we say that set and setting are major factors (along with dosage which is chemical) in the quality of your trip.
No new age mantra at all. I can't judge what's in your head but you can, and if you don't like it, then renovate, and if you don't know how, learn, because you CANNOT SUBCONTRACT THIS JOB
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: howsyournaggerdoin]
#23693442 - 09/30/16 08:54 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
howsyournaggerdoin said: Depression is definitely caused by chemical imbalances. Theres nothing else in our brain but chemicals and electricity so it only makes sense.
|
Murzelpfrumpft
pet donkey in a lucid dream

Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1,855
Last seen: 1 month, 28 days
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz]
#23693831 - 09/30/16 11:44 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
So, whats to be balanced out, then? What is the "weight" and "counterweight" of this oh-so-often cited balance?
Of course feelings are biochemistry, thoughts are, too, but there is nothing in equilibrium, as the expression balance suggests.
As Markthegnostic said, correlation is confused with causation, here. It was witnessed that certain chemical compounds administered to humans would heighten certain neurotransmitter concentrations and at the same time alleviate some aspects of depression in some people.
Thus, the theory was born that yer brain is outta balance because patients got outta bed when you stuffed some drugs into them. Strangely, there is a dozen of neurotransmitters that are said to be the cause of depression because there are meds that manipulate them and work a little for some time.
So they just say, well, everyone's different and everybody has a different lack of neurotransmitter.
This way they get you to try all of their shit and at some point you will inevitably feel better because depression was not a chronic disease to begin with and you will attribute this to the pill you tried at that point. When physically dependant, you try to stop it and they say: see, you relapse, that's the proof you had a chemical imbalance and the med worked. But shit, you were just dependant upon a pharmaceutical that does God knows what plus tweak your depression a little, maybe!
So good and honest scientists tried to find out if prozac really have the patients the serotonin they lacked and found out that serotonin levels vary greatly among healthy people and don't have shit to do with how happy they are.
But prozac is the prime example of a product heavily marketed by psychological tricks and one of the nicest examples how the studies needed for FDA approval are tweaked by the manufacturer. Ever heard of placebo wash out? Usually the manufacturer compares his drug with a placebo to prove it works. So they would preselect all people about to participate in the prozac trials for reaction to placebo, a.k.a. known as the antidepressants greatest enemy. They would throw out people reacting well to placebo effects and keep those few who have good reactions to prozac. And the joke is, this plus other minor tweaks BARELY made prozac outperform placebo.
Of course they had to hide the cases of suicide SSRIs cause, but that's another story.
The problem is that the people who benefit from the sale of those pharmaceuticals are the ones who do the science on it.
It's just an elaborated scam.
Think twice before proclaiming sth about chemical imbalances. You are feeding the monster.
Edited by Murzelpfrumpft (09/30/16 11:52 AM)
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: Murzelpfrumpft]
#23693972 - 09/30/16 12:45 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
good info in that rant
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 3 days
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: 404] 1
#23697588 - 10/01/16 03:45 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
404 said: I'm afraid that depression is much more complex than 'serotonin floating in the synaptic space between neurons', other neurotransmitters and receptor types may be involved, along with the immune system and certain types of genes. One that was recently identified as being an additional culprit in 5 major psychiatric disorders including depression was a gene called CACNB2 and regulates the flow of calcium in the neurons, regulating the action potentials in respective types of neurons
I was being simplistic, but I will research the CACNB2 to familiarize myself with the research, thanks. I probably have too much, or misplaced Calcium in my body (like calcification of my aorta ), but I recently alleviated years of chronic back pain with the addition of a Magnesium supplement. I felt palpable relief after the first dose within 12 hours. There seems to be a generally calming effect which is no doubt why the popular Magnesium citrate product is called CALM. Reminds me of John Cade's serendipitous discovery of the calming influence of Lithium salts in guinea pigs that resulted in the administration of Lithium carbonate for treatment of Bi-Polar Disorder. I wonder what other types of ions are yet to be identified as a prophylactic or treatment of mental disorders.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
|
laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: Murzelpfrumpft]
#23697704 - 10/01/16 04:39 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Murzelpfrumpft said: ...So good and honest scientists tried to find out if prozac really have the patients the serotonin they lacked and found out that serotonin levels vary greatly among healthy people and don't have shit to do with how happy they are.
But prozac is the prime example of a product heavily marketed by psychological tricks and one of the nicest examples how the studies needed for FDA approval are tweaked by the manufacturer. Ever heard of placebo wash out? Usually the manufacturer compares his drug with a placebo to prove it works. So they would preselect all people about to participate in the prozac trials for reaction to placebo, a.k.a. known as the antidepressants greatest enemy. They would throw out people reacting well to placebo effects and keep those few who have good reactions to prozac. And the joke is, this plus other minor tweaks BARELY made prozac outperform placebo.
Of course they had to hide the cases of suicide SSRIs cause, but that's another story...
very interesting - do have any links or sources, where we might learn more about this?
|
Murzelpfrumpft
pet donkey in a lucid dream

Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1,855
Last seen: 1 month, 28 days
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: laughingdog]
#23697775 - 10/01/16 05:11 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Yes, it would probably be best if you would check out Robert whitaker's book Anatomy of an Epidemic.
Take it with caution, as he focuses in the cases in which medication did nothing good.
It basically explains how modern psychopharmacology plays a major role in the "epidemic" of mental disorders we experience in the last decades.
|
laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: Murzelpfrumpft]
#23697854 - 10/01/16 05:44 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
thanks am checking out amazon
|
yeah



Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 3,729
Last seen: 1 month, 22 days
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: Bigfeely123]
#23698192 - 10/01/16 07:32 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Yes. There is no turning back. Be sad forever, asshole.
--------------------
|
laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: Murzelpfrumpft]
#23698846 - 10/02/16 12:11 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
thanks again, Murzelpfrumpft, for info on Robert Whitaker. found him on youtube. mindblowing with lots of documentation. multiple videos available there, i watched for hours. very informative on multiple aspects.
Edited by laughingdog (10/02/16 12:13 AM)
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: 404]
#23699115 - 10/02/16 03:25 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
404 said: I'm afraid that depression is much more complex than 'serotonin floating in the synaptic space between neurons', other neurotransmitters and receptor types may be involved, along with the immune system and certain types of genes. One that was recently identified as being an additional culprit in 5 major psychiatric disorders including depression was a gene called CACNB2 and regulates the flow of calcium in the neurons, regulating the action potentials in respective types of neurons
LOL 'I am afraid'? Who are you?
'is much more complex'? How do you mean by 'complex'? You mean you have to be some kind of 'chemical genetic genius neuroscientist' to understand the complexity of the brain? human mind?
I am guessing you don't mean complex relating to the complexities of living and the myriad ways culture causes oppression on one and all?
I am afraid you won't understand until you look and feel in a far more complex way which includes understanding how the pharma-psychiatric industry has functioned since its inception and continues to (not that long ago according to them being gay was 'mental illness'!), and how other institutions of bodymind control have functioned prior to its emergence. THIS is complex. Not yet again looking for a 'culprit' gene, 'CACNB2' or whatever chemical, to scapegaot and help 'disappear' the actual awareness and invesitigations and thus resolving of the oppressions that can drive people fkin mad! I mean LOOK. They on one hand are now admitting that their 'chemical imbalnce' 'diagnoses' was false, though they term it euphemistically 'metaphor' (ahhh HOW poetic!), and with the other hand are now depending on this gene-explanation bollocks like they have done previously, and still do, to explain away eg 'schizophrenia', and of course along with these 'diagnoses' come THE DRUGS! and THE PROFITS. because remember remember, these people are unning a business and they wanna keep them billions rolling in. This mindset is the very same who are wanting to give soldiers with PTSD (oh they love their souless abbreviated little drug hooks) a drug that totally 'wipes out traumatic memories'. Can you not see what a truly insane mindset is behind all of this model of 'mental health'?
Quote:
The New Eugenics: Why Genetic Theories of Mental Illness and Addiction Are a Damaging Dead End
Modern genetics doesn’t forcibly sterilize people. But fashionable theories around it put us in boxes just as eugenics once did, harmfully ignoring cultural and social differences and individual change.
Adam Cohen’s book, Imbeciles: The Supreme Court, American Eugenics, and the Sterilization of Carrie Buck, chronicles the horrors of the eugenics movement. It focuses on the 1927 Supreme Court decision in Buck v. Bell, in which an 8-1 majority upheld forced sterilization. Oliver Wendell Holmes wrote in the decision: “It is better for the world, if instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime, or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind.”
We all scorn eugenics today, recognizing its unscientific roots and its substitution of scientific terminology for prejudice. But we now kowtow to a virtually equivalent philosophy, one with no greater grounding in science—that is, the idea that mental illness and addiction are determined by our genes.
Of course, we don’t today allow forced sterilization based on genetics. But the implications of genetically-focused, biological psychiatry, for society and for individuals and families, are colossal. [ff]
|
secondorder
Amanda Hug'n'kiss



Registered: 04/05/15
Posts: 532
Loc: Queensland, Australia
Last seen: 9 months, 7 days
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz] 1
#23699144 - 10/02/16 04:18 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
As many have touched on, I think 'depression' as a category is much messier and less 'legitimate' than we would like it to be. With medical issues I've been chasing up over the last couple of years, I've discovered, as I'm sure many have, the lack of concreteness of most medical 'disorders' or 'diseases', which zzripz regularly alludes to. These labels are broad descriptions, and, most of the time, reinforce some standard of cultural values. My favorite example, namely because it's arbitrariness is so obvious, is the condition 'Chronic Fatigue Syndrome'. What is this 'syndrome' exactly? What is it caused by? Just how 'chronic' does someones fatigue need to be before they have achieved the aforementioned syndrome. None of these questions have solid answers. There are many causes: allergies, diet, fitness, lifestyle, genetics, auto-immune disorders, hormone cycles etc. CFS is little more than a phrase that describes, however vaguely, what a person is feeling, or how they are behaving, and says almost nothing about the underlying physiological state of said individual. Moreover, there are lots of different types of fatigue too, sleepiness, lethargy, CNS exhaustion etc. which all feel different, and cause different kinds of behaviors and struggles, yet are equally captured by 'Chronic Fatigue Syndrome'. 'Depression' seems to me to be the same kind of condition.
Which leads us to the conclusions that demiu5 and Jokeshopbeard have already come to. It seems to be a very common instinct to claim intellectual authority, or to jump up and shout 'EUREKA!' as if you finally understand it all. Than to simply take what tools we have, do the best with them that we can, and admit that a shrug is really the best we can muster in response to most deep questions.
|
psychobla
Stranger

Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 223
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? *DELETED* [Re: secondorder]
#23703022 - 10/03/16 10:16 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Post deleted by psychobla
Reason for deletion: Doxxed
-------------------- A bunch of jokes, with a grain of truth in each. The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese. What will be, will be.
|
404
error


Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz]
#23703075 - 10/03/16 10:34 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zzripz said:
Quote:
404 said: I'm afraid that depression is much more complex than 'serotonin floating in the synaptic space between neurons', other neurotransmitters and receptor types may be involved, along with the immune system and certain types of genes. One that was recently identified as being an additional culprit in 5 major psychiatric disorders including depression was a gene called CACNB2 and regulates the flow of calcium in the neurons, regulating the action potentials in respective types of neurons
LOL 'I am afraid'? Who are you?
'is much more complex'? How do you mean by 'complex'? You mean you have to be some kind of 'chemical genetic genius neuroscientist' to understand the complexity of the brain? human mind?
I am guessing you don't mean complex relating to the complexities of living and the myriad ways culture causes oppression on one and all?
I am afraid you won't understand until you look and feel in a far more complex way which includes understanding how the pharma-psychiatric industry has functioned since its inception and continues to (not that long ago according to them being gay was 'mental illness'!), and how other institutions of bodymind control have functioned prior to its emergence. THIS is complex. Not yet again looking for a 'culprit' gene, 'CACNB2' or whatever chemical, to scapegaot and help 'disappear' the actual awareness and invesitigations and thus resolving of the oppressions that can drive people fkin mad! I mean LOOK. They on one hand are now admitting that their 'chemical imbalnce' 'diagnoses' was false, though they term it euphemistically 'metaphor' (ahhh HOW poetic!), and with the other hand are now depending on this gene-explanation bollocks like they have done previously, and still do, to explain away eg 'schizophrenia', and of course along with these 'diagnoses' come THE DRUGS! and THE PROFITS. because remember remember, these people are unning a business and they wanna keep them billions rolling in. This mindset is the very same who are wanting to give soldiers with PTSD (oh they love their souless abbreviated little drug hooks) a drug that totally 'wipes out traumatic memories'. Can you not see what a truly insane mindset is behind all of this model of 'mental health'?
Quote:
The New Eugenics: Why Genetic Theories of Mental Illness and Addiction Are a Damaging Dead End
Modern genetics doesn’t forcibly sterilize people. But fashionable theories around it put us in boxes just as eugenics once did, harmfully ignoring cultural and social differences and individual change.
Adam Cohen’s book, Imbeciles: The Supreme Court, American Eugenics, and the Sterilization of Carrie Buck, chronicles the horrors of the eugenics movement. It focuses on the 1927 Supreme Court decision in Buck v. Bell, in which an 8-1 majority upheld forced sterilization. Oliver Wendell Holmes wrote in the decision: “It is better for the world, if instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime, or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind.”
We all scorn eugenics today, recognizing its unscientific roots and its substitution of scientific terminology for prejudice. But we now kowtow to a virtually equivalent philosophy, one with no greater grounding in science—that is, the idea that mental illness and addiction are determined by our genes.
Of course, we don’t today allow forced sterilization based on genetics. But the implications of genetically-focused, biological psychiatry, for society and for individuals and families, are colossal. [ff]
I don't get why you are getting so butthurt over this, i said the issue of depression was more complex than the person i replied to was letting on, listing some more facets of depression. Feel free to let it rustle your jimmies though if you want
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: 404]
#23703372 - 10/03/16 11:59 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
some people have a passion about things they care about deeply. this is a very serious subject. lots of people have been well and truly abused by this!
|
viktor
psychotechnician



Registered: 11/03/10
Posts: 4,293
Loc: New Zealand
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: psychobla]
#23704624 - 10/03/16 06:39 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
psychobla said: Studies show that exercise is a more potent antidepressant than any prescription currently available. Ever heard of runner's high?
Don't you think everyone with depression already knows this?
Hint: it's not a lack of knowledge about the benefits of exercise that is hard when one is depressed. It's finding the will to exercise despite the depression.
Note also that when a person is not depressed exercise naturally feels good because of endorphins etc. When a person is depressed there is much less pleasure and thus exercise feels like torture.
Saying "studies show that you should get off your lazy arse" is not very helpful.
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
|
beforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
Posts: 1,859
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: viktor] 1
#23704633 - 10/03/16 06:41 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Refusing to be alive and who you are goes a long way to destroying your emotional life / causing depression.
-------------------- Hostile humankind Can't you see you're fucking blind?
|
CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: beforethedawn] 2
#23705760 - 10/04/16 05:07 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: All subjective states of mind have biochemical correlates. However, correlation does not mean causation! There has not been any specific chemical discovered that is cause for clinical depression. At best, medicine has found correlations with less than optimal presence of the neurotransmitter Serotonin, so SSRI (Selective Serotonin Re-uptake Inhibitor) medicines keep Serotonin 'floating' in the synaptic space between neurons so that the Serotonin doesn't bind with the neurons but continues to conduct impulses to bring up our mood. Internal conditions that contribute to depression are called endogenous. Environmental-social conditions for depression are referred to as situational depression.
More correlations than just serotonin... Serotonin has more to do with grief and loss..... If you can't experience pleasure, that adhedonia , and has more to do with a sense of hopelessness, and is more related to dopamine..... If you can't even get off the couch and take a shower, that's psychomotor retardation, norepinephrine may play a roll.... Substance p is another neurotransmitter, it's released when the body encounters pain (acute or chronic) Drugs that inhibit substance p signaling can relieve depression, demonstrating the body is using physical pain pathways to experience psychic pain.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
|
psychobla
Stranger

Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 223
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: viktor]
#23706188 - 10/04/16 09:41 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
-
-------------------- A bunch of jokes, with a grain of truth in each. The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese. What will be, will be.
Edited by psychobla (03/23/18 12:27 PM)
|
olson
Stranger

Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 386
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: viktor]
#23706387 - 10/04/16 10:53 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
viktor said:
Quote:
psychobla said: Studies show that exercise is a more potent antidepressant than any prescription currently available. Ever heard of runner's high?
Don't you think everyone with depression already knows this?
Hint: it's not a lack of knowledge about the benefits of exercise that is hard when one is depressed. It's finding the will to exercise despite the depression.
Note also that when a person is not depressed exercise naturally feels good because of endorphins etc. When a person is depressed there is much less pleasure and thus exercise feels like torture.
Saying "studies show that you should get off your lazy arse" is not very helpful.
Sure it's hard to motivate yourself to exercise when you're depressed but if you are truly depressed would you not want to do anything that could make you better? As insensitive as it sounds i don't really sympathize with depressed people who sit around complaining. Whenever i'm in a depressed phase i do anything that might ease it even just a bit.
--------------------
Kinesin, a motor protein, shuttling a vesicle full of cargo such as glucose or even neurotransmitters across a cell. This little guy struts along the microtubule using ATP as fuel.
|
Bigfeely123
Stranger
Registered: 01/30/15 
Posts: 2,594
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: olson]
#23706455 - 10/04/16 11:13 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Just for the record, I work out on average 5 to 6 times a week. Day 1 chest & triceps, Day 2 back & biceps, Day 3 legs & shoulders, Day 4 is my rest day. And repeat... I've stopped commenting in this thread because of what it has turned into. I'm not going to post a picture of myself on the internet but I'm in more than good physical shape.
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: Bigfeely123]
#23707241 - 10/04/16 03:25 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
having good physical integrity is the basis for health, but also mental resiliency has to be developed.
that is elusive, but, part of it is in how unsatisfactory moments become normal, using mental contents awareness mixed with body sensation awareness.
I mean we all know life is not one perfect situation after another, but part of us wants everything just like Angelina Jolie, or maybe not.
We are hella big consumers, and really the advertising and social media gets way under our skin such that we are easily motivated to seek remedy for anything unsatisfactory. (and most everything is at least by some reckoning unsatisfactory)
and you know. we don't have to fix everything.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
Leviticus969



Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 939
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: Bigfeely123]
#23707373 - 10/04/16 04:20 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
beforethedawn said: Refusing to be alive and who you are goes a long way to destroying your emotional life / causing depression.
|
RJ Tubs 202


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA
Last seen: 19 hours, 2 minutes
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz]
#23721042 - 10/09/16 12:01 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zzripz said: that explanation reminds me of the new age mantra to always be 'positive thinking' and god help you if you dare to criticize a cult, a movement, any authoritarian set up, including the big society oppressing us---for that mindset it means YOUR thinking is 'too negative' and you need to meditate bla bla so in other words, thinking itself becomes a scapegoat!
Are you aware of the many types of irrational thoughts people have?
I've never once said anything about the bullshit "positive thinking" you refer to.
People often think in irrational ways. Let's deal with reality man.
|
laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: viktor]
#23726804 - 10/10/16 09:52 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
viktor said:
Quote:
psychobla said: Studies show that exercise is a more potent antidepressant than any prescription currently available. Ever heard of runner's high?
Don't you think everyone with depression already knows this?
Hint: it's not a lack of knowledge about the benefits of exercise that is hard when one is depressed. It's finding the will to exercise despite the depression.
Note also that when a person is not depressed exercise naturally feels good because of endorphins etc. When a person is depressed there is much less pleasure and thus exercise feels like torture.
Saying "studies show that you should get off your lazy arse" is not very helpful.
exactly as usual words and labels and undefined terms lead to simplistic thinking ... self pity gets confused with apathy ... and many other shades ... so a person associates depression w self pity and feels justified in being judgemental ... another form of blindness ... etc. or another thinks exercise must 'cure' it ... failing to realize their own discomfort with the reality of the vulnerability of the human condition ... and on it goes ...
Bruce Sprinstein (rock star) was just on NPR (has a book out) talked about battles with depression ... sorry folks ... we're all potentially vulnerable ...
|
RJ Tubs 202


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA
Last seen: 19 hours, 2 minutes
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: laughingdog]
#23729999 - 10/12/16 12:01 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
The depressed mind is a liar.
The addicted mind is a liar.
The violent mind is a liar.
The anxious mind is a liar.
The suicidal mind is a liar.
The mind is not to be trusted.
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#23730289 - 10/12/16 06:16 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
meditating is a form of thinking, it is characterized by cultivated mental content that is actively monitored with gentle practice. deliberately controlling your own mental contents is difficult and rewarding. it also changes one's perspective.
the human condition goes from plight to opportunity
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
RJ Tubs 202


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA
Last seen: 19 hours, 2 minutes
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: redgreenvines] 1
#23732712 - 10/12/16 10:22 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Insight meditation has no goal and is not about changing any aspect of experience.
It is simply observing.
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#23733468 - 10/13/16 08:50 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
well it does a kind of reassembly of self, a humble coming together of the bits and pieces at the still waters. life is better with insight meditation than without it in my opinion, although it can be challenging to just sit
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: redgreenvines]
#23733705 - 10/13/16 10:41 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
redgreenvines said: well it does a kind of reassembly of self, a humble coming together of the bits and pieces at the still waters. life is better with insight meditation than without it in my opinion, although it can be challenging to just sit
funny
of course if one were meditating - in some vipassana styles, one would label: "life is better with insight meditation than without it in my opinion, although it can be challenging to just sit", as 'thought' or 'talk' and not waste time taking it seriously...as one returns attention to the object of meditation (often the breath or more labeling of sensation / perceptions)
and of course likewise the above statement
funny
---
but to say: "meditating is a form of thinking,.."
could be very misleading, to beginners or the simply curious...
that definition seems to be generally associated with 'contemplation'.
Whereas in meditation, as you already know, ideally, there begins to be a distinction between thought and awareness, with the result that ... etc etc
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: laughingdog]
#23733930 - 10/13/16 12:24 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
a strict translation from pali for meditation (i think it was ana-pana sati) was "non-discursive thought" which means thought without dialog (dialog being the internal review and rehersal of conversations and repetition of 'nonsense')
unless you need to be constructed of magical soul dust (with rules of its own we can never know), any event in mind is sensation or sensation induced association (including perception, or memory, or partial thought formations (geometry, color, soundforms, cadences, movement, emotion...)).
all of these (thought)forms that occur in mind, including every part of meditation practice are made of the same thought-material.
meditation practice uses the associative apparatus of mind.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
RJ Tubs 202


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA
Last seen: 19 hours, 2 minutes
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: laughingdog]
#23740865 - 10/15/16 09:13 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
laughingdog said:
of course if one were meditating - in some vipassana styles, one would label: "life is better with insight meditation than without it in my opinion, although it can be challenging to just sit", ...
To observe how thoughts and reactivity create emotional experiences can stand outside of the realm of "better".
I'd prefer, life is more "whole", than life is "better" But I get it! "Whole" is preferred to fractured. 
It's like the koan, "You must lose yourself to find yourself."
|
laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#23740977 - 10/15/16 10:06 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
seems to be a misunderstanding here meaning was along these lines:
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: laughingdog]
#23741624 - 10/16/16 07:40 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
well it includes what you thought it was and then you begin again.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 2 days
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: Bigfeely123]
#23756529 - 10/20/16 11:27 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I always think of this problem as such: many illnesses and pathological conditions can also be accompanied by depression as a symptom. Think about epilepsy, for example. Even things like the flu can trigger depressive symptoms.
Therefore, there IS some physiological basis for depression, and that basis probably can exist by itself.
And of course I know that people that are abused,etc, can have depression (environmental condition) so I think this question is a no brainer.
--------------------
    [/url] [/url]
IF THE NEIGHBORS COMPLAIN BECAUSE THE MUSIC'S TOO LOUD, TURN IT UP SO YOU CAN'T HEAR THEM BITCH
|
RJ Tubs 202


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA
Last seen: 19 hours, 2 minutes
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: starfire_xes]
#23756660 - 10/21/16 12:39 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Many scientists and psychologists say there's just no evidence behind these claims.
If someone reacts with violence to an event, the event is not responsible for the violence.
If someone reacts with depression to an event, the event is not responsible for the depression.
If there was a biological basis for emotions, people would be tested for it.
But there is no test because there is no evidence. Not one single test.
Currently it's popular to see our problems as medical issues. TV ads tell us this every day.
|
starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 2 days
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#23756972 - 10/21/16 04:41 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said: Many scientists and psychologists say there's just no evidence behind these claims.
If someone reacts with violence to an event, the event is not responsible for the violence.
If someone reacts with depression to an event, the event is not responsible for the depression.
If there was a biological basis for emotions, people would be tested for it.
But there is no test because there is no evidence. Not one single test.
Currently it's popular to see our problems as medical issues. TV ads tell us this every day.
sO DEPRESSION That accompanies epilepsy is not a medical condition?
--------------------
    [/url] [/url]
IF THE NEIGHBORS COMPLAIN BECAUSE THE MUSIC'S TOO LOUD, TURN IT UP SO YOU CAN'T HEAR THEM BITCH
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: RJ Tubs 202] 1
#23757061 - 10/21/16 05:59 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said: Many scientists and psychologists say there's just no evidence behind these claims.
If someone reacts with violence to an event, the event is not responsible for the violence.
If someone reacts with depression to an event, the event is not responsible for the depression.
If there was a biological basis for emotions, people would be tested for it.
But there is no test because there is no evidence. Not one single test.
Currently it's popular to see our problems as medical issues. TV ads tell us this every day.
Altough as many people who know me here will know, I am also against the mental illness myth. But I disagree with:
Quote:
If someone reacts with violence to an event, the event is not responsible for the violence.
If someone reacts with depression to an event, the event is not responsible for the depression.
Saying that lets those who create violent oppression off the hook just as does the accusation that to have anger or depression is biologically caused.
Of course if there are people doing all kinds of terrible things to your lives, loved ones, land etc you will most likely feel violent towards them, and also deeply sad. And the cause IS their actions.
We live in a very oppressive civilization and it because OF this oppression may people feel violent and sad, and suicidal and anxious etc etc etc.
Take the example in a typical school where a child HAS to go, and it gets bullied. The bullying IS the cause of them feeling sad, or angry or suicidal or anxious, and all included, etc.
|
beforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
Posts: 1,859
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz]
#23757068 - 10/21/16 06:02 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Mind / consciousness can easily override brain and regenerate it.
Everything is mind / imagination.
-------------------- Hostile humankind Can't you see you're fucking blind?
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: beforethedawn]
#23757075 - 10/21/16 06:06 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
beforethedawn said: Mind / consciousness can easily override brain and regenerate it.
Everything is mind / imagination.
Well sorry but that idea to me is the more ancient Eastern version of the West's agenda to numb emotions via drugs.
IE if you are feeling oppressed your blamed cause you not 'meditating' right (East)
(West)IE if you are feeling oppressed your blamed cause you not 'medicating' right.
|
RJ Tubs 202


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA
Last seen: 19 hours, 2 minutes
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz]
#23759600 - 10/21/16 11:24 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zzripz said: But I disagree with:
Quote:
If someone reacts with violence to an event, the event is not responsible for the violence. If someone reacts with depression to an event, the event is not responsible for the depression.
Saying that lets those who create violent oppression off the hook just as does the accusation that to have anger or depression is biologically caused.
I understand your point. How about these examples...
If you get fired from your job, and you murder your boss, being fired was not the cause of the killing.
If your girlfriend dumps you, and you shoot yourself in the head, being dumped wasn't the cause of your suicide.
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#23760058 - 10/22/16 05:56 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:
zzripz said: But I disagree with:
Quote:
If someone reacts with violence to an event, the event is not responsible for the violence. If someone reacts with depression to an event, the event is not responsible for the depression.
Saying that lets those who create violent oppression off the hook just as does the accusation that to have anger or depression is biologically caused.
I understand your point. How about these examples...
If you get fired from your job, and you murder your boss, being fired was not the cause of the killing.
If your girlfriend dumps you, and you shoot yourself in the head, being dumped wasn't the cause of your suicide.
As to the first one, it depends on circumstance. IE if the person has been through so much and relied on the job to feed his kids who he may lose and become homeless IF sacked then if this was last straw and the boss had humiliated him by sacking him for a little misdemeanor then you would have to be VERY hard-faced to not see a cause for him losing it. He also may just have thumped the boss and this led to him falling and bumping head and getting brain damage and death
Life is complex
Someone dumps you and you kill yourself. Again it depends on the case. You just cannot dissect cause from effect always like you seem to be trying to do. he may have sacrificed a lot to make it work and she just treated him like shit etc etc etc
|
RJ Tubs 202


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA
Last seen: 19 hours, 2 minutes
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz]
#23762654 - 10/22/16 10:58 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
When someone kills another or themselves due to being fired or dumped, the "trigger" is within their psyche.
How in the holy name of Jesus can you say being humiliated and homeless is a trigger for murder?
(Of course being fired doesn't mean you can't get another job. There are always jobs available)
(and someone can always find another partner)
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#23763285 - 10/23/16 05:56 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said: When someone kills another or themselves due to being fired or dumped, the "trigger" is within their psyche.
How in the holy name of Jesus can you say being humiliated and homeless is a trigger for murder?
(Of course being fired doesn't mean you can't get another job. There are always jobs available)
(and someone can always find another partner)
oh young man (?) you lead a very sheltered life
think what you want, there's no getting through obviously
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz]
#23763409 - 10/23/16 07:31 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
wait, there is getting through, with compassionate eyes, imagine a mental state in which you have become convinced that there is no getting another job, the mental state has titanium barriers to any out side input on the matter which has "stubbornly" been decided after a lifetime of consistent confirmations, & self fulfilling prophesies, that this would always happen. everything has gone too far.
imagine this dark impenetrable world sealed using the strongest mental constructs.
---- in a clinical situation, using drugs and regular talk therapy, the "titanium" can be softened in places to let the light in.
this would be a beginning.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: redgreenvines]
#23763503 - 10/23/16 08:18 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
the very demand to HAVE a job is oppressive.
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz]
#23763549 - 10/23/16 08:40 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
existence with no demands is also oppressive if you look at it with sensitivity.
so we endure gravity and air pressure and live and make art.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: redgreenvines]
#23763605 - 10/23/16 09:15 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
you are just using words to try and prove some point.
Living with natural gravity, and air pressure is NOT the same as some fat cat causing you to have to do soul-destroying work for fear of being the plaything of the welfare and/or made home-less
you are not looking at the bigger picture; the infrastructure of oppression, but use words to try and make it seem normal
words are exactly what the shrinks and big pharma industry and their marketing use to try and make people believe a false reality.Just arrange words and try and out wit someone so they accept their oppression and don't question it
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz]
#23763614 - 10/23/16 09:17 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz]
#23764164 - 10/23/16 12:32 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
well excuse me for typing words here, in order to explain things. I can see that communicating more vaguely by referring to the subtext in videos is much more appropriate for dolphins like you.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: redgreenvines]
#23764565 - 10/23/16 03:37 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
explain away things more like
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz]
#23765327 - 10/23/16 08:48 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
away from what you are putting in the place of what is maybe.
we struggle with shifting the perception of significance in issues. I try to flatten the context just a bit to look down at it as a whole living system, you try to see each condition as another instance in which the same perps and victims acting out a heroic war.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
RJ Tubs 202


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA
Last seen: 19 hours, 2 minutes
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz]
#23765423 - 10/23/16 09:30 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zzripz said:
oh young man (?) you lead a very sheltered life
think what you want, there's no getting through obviously
Cognitive distortions are exaggerated irrational thought patterns that create and perpetuate emotional disturbances, such as depression, anxiety, and rage.
Interviewing violent people and reading suicide notes, we uncover cognitive distortions.
When we interview people with chronic depression and anxiety, we see cognitive distortions.
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz]
#23765609 - 10/23/16 11:02 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
cognitive distortions, yes. indeed. sounds reasonable.
Edited by akira_akuma (10/23/16 11:08 PM)
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: akira_akuma] 1
#23765618 - 10/23/16 11:08 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zzripz said:
Quote:
Bigfeely123 said: Or does it stem from environmental aspects?
you need to Google 'mental illness myth' and look at links, and recommended articles, books, videos, and in this way you should learn that this civilization has as its central social controlling myth the myth of mental illness which , by 'myth', is not meant that how you feel is not real, but that the 'accepted' idea that 'depression' is a biologically-caused 'chemical imbalance' is a hoax. Even psychiatrists are admitting this is so, though critics of the pharmo/shrink cartel have been informing about this for many many years
So OK, say you know all that but you still feel depressed, what then?
First I will ask you, are you aware of reasons why you feel so down?
bullshit.
there are insights from both psychiatry and the anti-psychiatry movement (in terms of overprescribing medications, being against certain treatments that have moral consequences, ie, anti-psychotics, ect) that are valid...stop acting (as Jokeshop said) "like you have all the answers". you don't.
PS: if a problem can be seen or felt, it exists, insofar as it exists for those whom can see or feel it.
denying that depression exists is like denying that schizophrenia exists. some of you people have got to understand, at some point, that you're being ridiculous by saying that depression is a non-existent "disease" and "just something else". who gives a fuck "what" it is, exactly? it exists. you need to deal with it -- some people opt for medication, and it works for them; who is to tell them what to do otherwise, if what fucking works for them works.
oft times cognitive therapy is not enough.
blame the world you live in (the species) for producing these effects...not the people whom are effected...for the state of affairs with people's mental health.
|
RJ Tubs 202


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA
Last seen: 19 hours, 2 minutes
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: akira_akuma]
#23765670 - 10/23/16 11:42 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
akira_akuma said: ...some of you people have got to understand, at some point, that you're being ridiculous by saying that depression is a non-existent "disease" ... who gives a fuck "what" it is, exactly?
I'm beating a dead horse (again), but nobody denies the experience of depression exists.
Nobody denies the very real suffering of a rapist, arsonist, serial killer, terrorist, or pedophile.
If emotional disturbances aren't rooted in bio-chemical malfunction, that's important.
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#23765681 - 10/23/16 11:46 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
actually, some of you people are denying that depression has bio-chemical component. see: zzrips. 
and if emotional disturbances aren't rooted in bio-chemical malfunction, that's important, only insofar as finding the root cause of said disturbance...means NOT that you cannot use medication to help aid you.
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#23765981 - 10/24/16 05:37 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:
zzripz said:
oh young man (?) you lead a very sheltered life
think what you want, there's no getting through obviously
Cognitive distortions are exaggerated irrational thought patterns that create and perpetuate emotional disturbances, such as depression, anxiety, and rage.
Interviewing violent people and reading suicide notes, we uncover cognitive distortions.
When we interview people with chronic depression and anxiety, we see cognitive distortions.
According to who? Who is having the power/is audacious enough as a fellow human being to say to you, who may be depressed through circumstances unique to you and not experienced by the other who tells you 'you have a cognitive distortion'? Get me? it is the same power move similar to what the shrinks do minus the drugs. I am not just against the the biomedical psychiatrists, but also psychologists and psychotherapists who will use this form of oppression on others, acting as gatekeepers for oppressive culture. For both the drug and non drug so-called 'mind expert' they are using power over you to explain that how you are feeling is a disease or cognitive disorder. And same is so for the gurus, and cult leaders too.
People should be, MUST be free to feel however they want regarding whatever, and not be told they are suffering a disorder.
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz]
#23765988 - 10/24/16 05:45 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
of course no one should cede their control over their own destinies, but that doesn't mean medication doesn't help with the problems people have, nor psychiatrists -- though credentials, in both instances, are important to a T. (see, i made a joke there, but it's like interwoven with my main point -- awesome) so why can't you just admit to that reality? because you read some opinions at some point.
that's why. and you think you're gonna be in the lot that changes the world...yeash.
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz]
#23766045 - 10/24/16 06:38 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zzripz said: ... I am not just against the the biomedical psychiatrists, but also psychologists and psychotherapists who will use this form of oppression on others, acting as gatekeepers for oppressive culture. For both the drug and non drug so-called 'mind expert' they are using power over you to explain that how you are feeling is a disease or cognitive disorder. And same is so for the gurus, and cult leaders too.
People should be, MUST be free to feel however they want regarding whatever, and not be told they are suffering a disorder.
You are against practically everything that ever comes up if my memory serves me half as good as it might. As to whether you will be told you have a disorder such as "antagonistic disposition syndrome" it is really up to you whether you take it to heart or not. you don't have the right to prevent people having a perception of your disorder, nor the right to prevent them from saying what they think. You do have the right to refuse medication up until the time that the disorder lets you hurt yourself or others.
just keeding.... but you know...
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: redgreenvines]
#23766449 - 10/24/16 11:06 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
"antagonistic disposition syndrome" ?
Of course, you won't suffer from 'it', ohh noooo
and like said, it is not about someone having freedom to judge another, it is when the judging is used as a power over the ones being so judged.
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz]
#23766513 - 10/24/16 11:36 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
ok maybe this is a chicken and egg anti-anti-freedom kind of attitude, but my "diagnosis" of the untreated antagonistic disposition syndrome and the claim that judging is power over one's being judged kind of collude into one thing.
nobody owns the thoughts in another person's mind.
you are free to think what you think, and I am similarly.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
nice1returns
I am the Holy Shit



Registered: 09/04/14
Posts: 2,303
Loc: miwuaki
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: Bigfeely123]
#23766777 - 10/24/16 01:06 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Bigfeely123 said: Or does it stem from environmental aspects?
Its 100% environmental.
Its a BELIEF SYSTEM. Please look at my old threads.
Repeating negative beliefs to each other. Its that simple. Face ones self. I had to. We all do.
All the best!
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: nice1returns]
#23767625 - 10/24/16 05:38 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
nice1returns said:
Quote:
Bigfeely123 said: Or does it stem from environmental aspects?
Its 100% environmental.
Its a BELIEF SYSTEM. Please look at my old threads.
Repeating negative beliefs to each other. Its that simple. Face ones self. I had to. We all do.
All the best!
Tell that to someone with bipolar disorder.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
nice1returns
I am the Holy Shit



Registered: 09/04/14
Posts: 2,303
Loc: miwuaki
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: DividedQuantum]
#23768755 - 10/25/16 12:54 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
How could i "tell" someone who has already been trained to believe?
its all thats happening here. People reaffirming beliefs to each other for cash. Its a form of hysteria and people get paid for inventing imaginary "cures".
I've never seen a bipolar dolphin. I've never seen an animal with any of these made up human conditions. The only animals in suffering are the ones we are causing suffering too. the western world trains each other in arrogance and ignorance so they can continue their delusions for cash scheme and everyone else is unhappy and pays the real price for it.
does anyone realise how the language they use and the shaming reward system is conditioning each other?
Edited by nice1returns (10/25/16 01:02 AM)
|
viktor
psychotechnician



Registered: 11/03/10
Posts: 4,293
Loc: New Zealand
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: nice1returns]
#23768957 - 10/25/16 04:09 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
That's a really ignorant post.
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: viktor]
#23769210 - 10/25/16 08:14 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
very.
this notion that some "good thinking" is gonna correct these problems, "good thinking" from "enlightenment"....it's just....where is there an actual anything here?
spiritualism does not cure or treat depression...fuck sakes. if it were that easy, there'd be no depression...fuck sakes.
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: nice1returns]
#23769326 - 10/25/16 09:17 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
I've never seen an animal with any of these made up human conditions.
How do you mean 'made up'? Do you mean that people who experience what is termed bipolar are making it up?
|
Love_spirit
Circle Of Power



Registered: 07/18/15
Posts: 1,208
Last seen: 7 months, 27 days
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: nice1returns] 1
#23769438 - 10/25/16 09:56 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
It's %100 chemical, if I take drugs it goes away without a trace... I can see how mushrooms/ psyches would make you think that you're changing your beliefs to be forever free of depression but believe me, It will come creeping back once you stop if you are a person that has constant clinical depression.
|
The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,660
Loc: The Primordial Mind
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: Love_spirit]
#23769498 - 10/25/16 10:15 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Real answer is not in this thread.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
|
nice1returns
I am the Holy Shit



Registered: 09/04/14
Posts: 2,303
Loc: miwuaki
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: The Blind Ass]
#23769676 - 10/25/16 11:20 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Made up in that its mass hysteria, self re affirmed beliefs.
your depressed, feel bad, feel bad, your depressed, take some posiens, consume toxcins, your negative, consume toxcins?
Hello?
Its a negative belief system. I can never show anyone because if you believe in it then OFC you have negative beleifs lol. Its pretty simple. If you want send me money and I'll make some rain clouds appear lmao
You say I am ignorant? I simply see the delusion.
No animal is depressed. nature is not deperessed. Only humans torturing other humans for cash are depressed. the only animal that is not free or unhappy is one being trapped by a human. Please wake up. i used to be a depression believer :p I simply do not believe in it anymore thus it doesnt exist. it was a thought. A mass hysteria.
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: nice1returns]
#23769685 - 10/25/16 11:24 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
nice1returns said: Made up in that its mass hysteria, self re affirmed beliefs.
your depressed, feel bad, feel bad, your depressed, take some posiens, consume toxcins, your negative, consume toxcins?
Hello?
Its a negative belief system. I can never show anyone because if you believe in it then OFC you have negative beleifs lol. Its pretty simple. If you want send me money and I'll make some rain clouds appear lmao
You say I am ignorant? I simply see the delusion.
No animal is depressed. nature is not deperessed. Only humans torturing other humans for cash are depressed. the only animal that is not free or unhappy is one being trapped by a human.
have you ever been depressed?
|
nice1returns
I am the Holy Shit



Registered: 09/04/14
Posts: 2,303
Loc: miwuaki
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz]
#23769690 - 10/25/16 11:25 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Yes, how else could I understand it?
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: nice1returns]
#23769717 - 10/25/16 11:36 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
have you ever had 'bipolar'?
|
nice1returns
I am the Holy Shit



Registered: 09/04/14
Posts: 2,303
Loc: miwuaki
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz]
#23769777 - 10/25/16 11:54 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Bipolar is a belief system of seperation. Beleiving oneself to be seperate from nature, from life and death. Theres no imaginary "you" going aroind getting good or bad points based on its profile. that IS insanity. People are bouncing off a wall here. i don't know how to awaken them. I'm really trying my best.
the "western" delusion is one of thought control. Everyone wants to look to others for what to think and the others just want to hand around the collection plate. We are alive. we do not need to keep each other as pets here. that IS insanity. You are just trying to watch yourself. We are alive. One life force on earth.
wake up. stop choosing negative thoughts and the collective WILL evolve with you. there is no "me", just US. Life.
look at nature, the animals, look at YOURSELF. I don't see dolphins going about spreading toxcins for cash and beliefs. Its a human DELUSION. A mass hysteria of sorts. A belief system.
Edited by nice1returns (10/25/16 12:07 PM)
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: nice1returns]
#23769809 - 10/25/16 12:05 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
you are being delusional.
people are trying to navigate in their own ways, some within dichotomous circumstances within society, with which they need to serve some form, because they wish for attainment of certain presumptive predilections in their sphere of influence (environment, inner life); and these people can devise their own ways, or one way is to seek help from someone else, if navigating is proving difficult in your current situation -- thus people take drugs to cope (among other things). is this difficult to understand to you? the medical profession has got problems within it, certainly; but this doesn't make it the devil, just because of your ethical standard being overbearing. not to mention, you just put everyone that works in the profession (seemingly, i guess; that's just what i get off you) in the same pool, instead of looking at the individual case reports -- the times when people, countless times actually, have been helped.
|
nice1returns
I am the Holy Shit



Registered: 09/04/14
Posts: 2,303
Loc: miwuaki
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: akira_akuma]
#23769817 - 10/25/16 12:08 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
theres only 2 ways 2 navigate, fear or love, we all feel this
you want to keep your own delusion alive, suffering is a choice now, anger is only the expression of misunderstanding I only know because I had to go throught this as we all do here
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: nice1returns]
#23769830 - 10/25/16 12:11 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
you're oversimplifying because you think it makes you sound intelligent, because you're afraid of something.
|
nice1returns
I am the Holy Shit



Registered: 09/04/14
Posts: 2,303
Loc: miwuaki
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: akira_akuma]
#23769842 - 10/25/16 12:14 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
you are not to accept and realise, understand and know ones self.
this isn't bad, its simply misunderstanding
life is simple
complex it and you will form delusions such as paranoia, anxiety, deopression, these are all BELIEFS
only inability to accept this causes ones suffering I'm not trying to damage your ego, I'm trying to help you understand it, the you the me, ouselves, life and death.
Understanding and acceptance of ones self. Duality, the illusion, life and death. The mind. I do not know any other way to express via words.
paranoia is fear of oneself anxiety is fear of oneself anger is the expression of misunderstanding depression is a belief system that is taught, just a negative thoguht we taught each other to repeat, a loop crying is the relief and realisation of ones suffering
we should try to teach ourselfs not to be this way. No nature, no animal, that isn't captured by a human, is depressed? this should be our example. The natural state of all life.
what is the opposite? Give dophins some random chemicals and hope they are happy? we are not seperate from ife itself. we are it!! a choice. every action here creates and effects the next generation and their joy. Its not that hard to grasp. I really am trying, sorry if my thought offends the "you". Im not a "you" or a "me" its us, life, trying to exist here.
the truth HURTS. Get through it. We all have too.
everything in life is a tool, including the mind, it should be controlled, tamed, understood, learn to harness its power here now. The power of belief. positive or negative. don't let others use this to control you any more.
Edited by nice1returns (10/25/16 01:44 PM)
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: nice1returns]
#23770053 - 10/25/16 01:33 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
|
nice1returns
I am the Holy Shit



Registered: 09/04/14
Posts: 2,303
Loc: miwuaki
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: akira_akuma]
#23770090 - 10/25/16 01:42 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Exactly what i did when I realised the mass delusion.
One can only laugh and cry at oneself.
It hurts to know the truth.
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: nice1returns]
#23770193 - 10/25/16 02:16 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
it doesn't hurt to know the truth. LOL it feels great to know the truth.
|
viktor
psychotechnician



Registered: 11/03/10
Posts: 4,293
Loc: New Zealand
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: akira_akuma] 1
#23770849 - 10/25/16 05:52 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
nice1returns to paraplegic man in wheelchair: stand up! your physical limitations are only a belief that you have accepted!
float on up out of the chair!
have you ever seen a monkey or a fish in a wheelchair? of course not! being in a wheelchair is unnatural! so get up!
don't play the victim out of fear of the freedom of walking! just believe that you can walk and it's that easy!
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
|
nice1returns
I am the Holy Shit



Registered: 09/04/14
Posts: 2,303
Loc: miwuaki
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: viktor]
#23771999 - 10/26/16 12:21 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Your comparing someone who believes they are unhappy to someone with no legs?
Its not the same thing. A beleif is a thought. Its created in your head now by choice. Your legs are on your body they had to grow to be there.
If you want to pay for happyness or balance then I have bridge I can sell you too. Its just beliefs for cash again guys.
Your being parasited on with a belief system. Its very simple. I'm trying to help anyone wake up to it so they can change theirself as I did. We all have to get through this together.
I'm sorry I have to be the messenger that offends ones ego but it has to happen or humanity will never evolve past this basic trick.
If you really are unhappy then its because you are not free. That is the only cause of unhappyness. Being inside of ones own mental prison. Any belief system!
Edited by nice1returns (10/26/16 12:34 AM)
|
howsyournaggerdoin
Happy


Registered: 02/04/16
Posts: 1,600
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: nice1returns]
#23772045 - 10/26/16 12:47 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
|
ChristopherABrown
Human being


Registered: 07/22/16
Posts: 330
Loc: Santa Barbara California
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: nice1returns]
#23772153 - 10/26/16 02:06 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
nice1returns said: Bipolar is a belief system of seperation. Beleiving oneself to be seperate from nature, from life and death. Theres no imaginary "you" going aroind getting good or bad points based on its profile. that IS insanity. People are bouncing off a wall here. i don't know how to awaken them. I'm really trying my best.
the "western" delusion is one of thought control. Everyone wants to look to others for what to think and the others just want to hand around the collection plate. We are alive. we do not need to keep each other as pets here. that IS insanity. You are just trying to watch yourself. We are alive. One life force on earth.
wake up. stop choosing negative thoughts and the collective WILL evolve with you. there is no "me", just US. Life.
look at nature, the animals, look at YOURSELF. I don't see dolphins going about spreading toxcins for cash and beliefs. Its a human DELUSION. A mass hysteria of sorts. A belief system.
A study of the difference between the conscious cognitive mind and the intuitive unconscious mind which has deep connections to the hypthalmus will go a long way towards actual understanding here.
Beliefs are unconsciously impelled while understandings are rational parallels that explain beliefs in terms others can cognitively appreciate.
Science and psychology has been trying to avoid dealing with this. Bipolarism is an irregularity and rational inconsistency that swings between mania and depression. It can be chemically caused naturally by genetics. Or, other factors can mimic it successfully.
-------------------- You always want what you need, but do not always need what you want. People that do not want what they need, have a problem. Can we stop doing all of the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?
|
nice1returns
I am the Holy Shit



Registered: 09/04/14
Posts: 2,303
Loc: miwuaki
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: ChristopherABrown]
#23772325 - 10/26/16 04:48 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
You hold a belief system and do not acknowledge ones self.
Repeating the word bipolar, is insanity and spreads the hysteria.
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: nice1returns]
#23772327 - 10/26/16 04:50 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
If you really are unhappy then its because you are not free. That is the only cause of unhappyness. Being inside of ones own mental prison. Any belief system!
so you believe there be a state of total happiness-all-the-time
|
jsncrs
DYEL


Registered: 01/16/14
Posts: 1,170
Loc: Mars
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz] 1
#23772343 - 10/26/16 05:07 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Latest research shows depression could be caused by Inflammation in the gut
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: jsncrs]
#23772368 - 10/26/16 05:28 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
the article is accurate in asserting that inflammation is definitely a major cause of depressive symptoms -- gut inflammation, arterial inflammation, and inflammation-producing cytokines, and anxiety producing hormones, can all contribute to overall depressive states. also; as the article mentions: sleep patterns. major contributor easily.
|
nice1returns
I am the Holy Shit



Registered: 09/04/14
Posts: 2,303
Loc: miwuaki
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz]
#23772410 - 10/26/16 06:26 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zzripz said:
Quote:
If you really are unhappy then its because you are not free. That is the only cause of unhappyness. Being inside of ones own mental prison. Any belief system!
so you believe there be a state of total happiness-all-the-time
Yes, the human and animal is just playful joy, just as a child or nature. Only problems arise when people look to others for beliefs and then the others hand around the collection plate.
depression can be cured with meditation, learning to control ones own mind as can all symptoms of the mind.
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: nice1returns]
#23773005 - 10/26/16 11:20 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
nice1returns said:
Quote:
zzripz said:
Quote:
If you really are unhappy then its because you are not free. That is the only cause of unhappyness. Being inside of ones own mental prison. Any belief system!
so you believe there be a state of total happiness-all-the-time
Yes, the human and animal is just playful joy, just as a child or nature. Only problems arise when people look to others for beliefs and then the others hand around the collection plate.
depression can be cured with meditation, learning to control ones own mind as can all symptoms of the mind.
ahaaa! that is YOUR belief system...!
not mine
|
nice1returns
I am the Holy Shit



Registered: 09/04/14
Posts: 2,303
Loc: miwuaki
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz]
#23774832 - 10/26/16 09:20 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Mine is a positive one without negative thought loops for cash.
We all choose now. Make yours or look to others for answers and pay the price.
|
nice1returns
I am the Holy Shit



Registered: 09/04/14
Posts: 2,303
Loc: miwuaki
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: nice1returns]
#23775134 - 10/26/16 10:56 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Pleasure or pain is a switch in the head that can be turned on or off with thought and that thought switch is belief.
People are going around selling this but it isn't good to do this more than you need here to exist.
Self obsession is a form of insanity thus we should choose to experience the creation or create joy.
An example of good work is creating or paying for or supporting something that helps the entire planet harmonise in balance. An example of bad work is any form of self obsession, any thing we do that hurts oneself, us, life, consuming too much life in any manner, be aware how every thought, every penny we spend effects another life form. We should strive for balance.
Edited by nice1returns (10/26/16 11:47 PM)
|
RJ Tubs 202


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA
Last seen: 19 hours, 2 minutes
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz] 1
#23775273 - 10/27/16 12:00 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zzripz said:
Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:
zzripz said:
oh young man (?) you lead a very sheltered life
think what you want, there's no getting through obviously
Cognitive distortions are exaggerated irrational thought patterns that create and perpetuate emotional disturbances, such as depression, anxiety, and rage.
Interviewing violent people and reading suicide notes, we uncover cognitive distortions.
When we interview people with chronic depression and anxiety, we see cognitive distortions.
According to who? Who is having the power/is audacious enough as a fellow human being to say to you, who may be depressed through circumstances unique to you and not experienced by the other who tells you 'you have a cognitive distortion'?
People frequently come to realize they're creating their own misery.
And that what's fueling their misery isn't "life", but their cognitive distortions.
To believe your misery is unique and special is total insanity!
That's pure 100% ego-driven bullshit. The mind is often a liar. Beware.
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#23775564 - 10/27/16 03:47 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
the only thing I will be beware of is ideas such as that.
|
nice1returns
I am the Holy Shit



Registered: 09/04/14
Posts: 2,303
Loc: miwuaki
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz]
#23775612 - 10/27/16 04:43 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
An example of good work is creating or paying for or supporting something that helps the entire planet harmonise in balance. An example of bad work is any form of self obsession, any obsession including fear of self, any thing we do that hurts oneself, us, life, consuming too much life in any manner, be aware how every thought, every penny we spend effects another life form. That is creating destruction, this is hard for us to collectively accept we all have been participating in. We should strive for balance.
When using English or any language be very careful of how a percieved positive or negative word will influence someone who believes in it.
If we ever feel stuck at all then we must rebalance ourselves with meditation. It really is the expression of not knowing the own mind.
Insanity in its rawest form is any thought loop. 10 print "error" 20 goto 10. Any form of repetition. Why not harness our natural insanity and use it for a collective benefit? The mind is a computer waiting to be unlocked.

Meditation, the real hardcore drug lmao
Its all real! Realise anyone can grab the torch for humanity and all life now
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: nice1returns]
#23775888 - 10/27/16 08:24 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
the mind is not a computer!
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz]
#23775905 - 10/27/16 08:31 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
more like a polaroid movie camera that can paradoxically play back memory combinations at higher resolutions than originally experienced
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
nice1returns
I am the Holy Shit



Registered: 09/04/14
Posts: 2,303
Loc: miwuaki
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz]
#23775954 - 10/27/16 08:56 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zzripz said: I have no belief in my own ability to choose positive or negative thought or remain balanced right here now
I know anger, fear, love, sorrow, joy all can be difficult to grasp but we can learn to allign them as aspects of the self. We should never fear one another, this just creates an imaginary monster outside of the self. ALL life and death has a commen connection.
Often people wonder why do we eat other life forms? Why do we eat ourselves? The answer is just so that life never ends. We should choose to consume thoughtfully though and not cause suffering to the life form when consuming it or during its life. Any life form thats being kept as a pet is in suffering. It saddens me but this is true. A pet is a direct reflection of the desire to own oneself, control ones own mind. I am not wanting to shame anyone. I am wanting to drop the shame reward for cash system. Its time we let go of negative beliefs. We can use money without greed. Use mind without surpressing imagination. Choose right and wrong via our own internal morel guide. Insanity in its rawest form is repeating the same thing over and over again without error correction.
What is desire? Desire to control, desire to control ones own mind? It is a reflection of ones soul crying for the freedom it requires as a creature of Earth. The freedom to know we are all naturally good and want the same common goals. To be balanced and happy. I know if people can meditate together at the same time all around the world it will have a huge impact and healing effect. Anyone can make a choice here now to be a part of earths problems or solutions. We just must see and know the self first to understand. Most problems arising in the human mind now can be fixed simply by mediating in a stress free environment. This is a powerful healing tool. It should never be charged for. Thats just cash for beliefs again.
Insanity in its rawest form is just thought loops without error correction. The cause of suffering.
If people are interested we could organise a meditation every full moon or sunny afternoon.
When we rebalance ourselfs then the earth will rebalance too. You will see a direct positive change from doing this.
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: nice1returns]
#23775965 - 10/27/16 09:02 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
nice1returns said:
Quote:
zzripz said: I have no belief in my own ability to choose positive or negative thought or remain balanced right here now
I know anger, fear, love, sorrow, joy all can be difficult to grasp but we can learn to allign them as aspects of the self. We should never fear one another, this just creates an imaginary monster outside of the self. ALL life and death has a commen connection.
Often people wonder why do we eat other life forms? Why do we eat ourselves? The answer is just so that life never ends. We should choose to consume thoughtfully though and not cause suffering to the life form when consuming it or during its life. Any life form thats being kept as a pet is in suffering. It saddens me but this is true. A pet is a direct reflection of the desire to own oneself, control ones own mind. I am not wanting to shame anyone. I am wanting to drop the shame reward for cash system. Its time we let go of negative beliefs. We can use money without greed. Use mind without surpressing imagination. Choose right and wrong via our own internal morel guide. Insanity in its rawest form is repeating the same thing over and over again without error correction.
What is desire? Desire to control, desire to control ones own mind? It is a reflection of ones soul crying for the freedom it requires as a creature of Earth. The freedom to know we are all naturally good and want the same common goals. To be balanced and happy. I know if people can meditate together at the same time all around the world it will have a huge impact and healing effect. Anyone can make a choice here now to be a part of earths problems or solutions. We just must see and know the self first to understand. Most problems arising in the human mind now can be fixed simply by mediating in a stress free environment. This is a powerful healing tool. It should never be charged for. Thats just cash for beliefs again.
Insanity in its rawest form is just thought loops without error correction. The cause of suffering.
If people are interested we could organise a meditation every full moon or sunny afternoon.
When we rebalance ourselfs then the earth will rebalance too. You will see a direct positive change from doing this.
I don't know whose quote that is which you name as mine (at beginning of your post), but it is not me
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: redgreenvines]
#23775967 - 10/27/16 09:03 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
redgreenvines said: more like a polaroid movie camera that can paradoxically play back memory combinations at higher resolutions than originally experienced
no, mind is not a polaroid camera either
|
howsyournaggerdoin
Happy


Registered: 02/04/16
Posts: 1,600
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz]
#23778934 - 10/28/16 12:20 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zzripz said: the mind is not a computer!
Its much closer to a computer than you might think
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: howsyournaggerdoin] 1
#23779116 - 10/28/16 03:23 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
howsyournaggerdoin said:
Quote:
zzripz said: the mind is not a computer!
Its much closer to a computer than you might think
No it is not.
Why Minds Are Not Like Computers
And if and when your bodymind sees a bigger picture you will discover that the myth that the mind is a computer or like a computer (and that reality is a 'computer simulation') will suit the ruling class to a T, because they will be soon wanting (and this is already happening) to get you to demand technology which will be implanted in your body to 'upgrade your computer', and they will make vast profits supplying it, as they already do with the current technology!
|
howsyournaggerdoin
Happy


Registered: 02/04/16
Posts: 1,600
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz]
#23779181 - 10/28/16 04:32 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I wasnt implying that the brian could be condensend down to an algorithm but rather that there are a lot of similarities between the brain and computers.
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: howsyournaggerdoin]
#23779675 - 10/28/16 10:15 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
please read the article I linked to?
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz]
#23779904 - 10/28/16 12:12 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zzripz said:
Quote:
redgreenvines said: more like a polaroid movie camera that can paradoxically play back memory combinations at higher resolutions than originally experienced
no, mind is not a polaroid camera either 
you mean you have no short term memory nor fuzzy long term recollection?
I obviously do not mean that it emits white cards with color pictures on it, but it does develop and preserve impressions of the moment instantly, and it can recall those impressions (albeit in fuzzy resolution) as well as embellish them. this is a very key concept. Although it is a system for memory it differs from a computer in that a) it is not binary at all, nor is it separated into core CPU and memory storage, instead associative input and output operate in the same fabric. b) there is no ram or rom storage, the impressions are preserved within the cortical matrix based on a system that keeps associated impressions together - the associations are bound more strongly when repetition of the associated impressions occurs. c) the same memory fabric (neurons in the cortex) can be reused in multiple simultaneous memory engrams (so it is not just the synaptic connections but something that works with polybound relationships and potentiated thresholds among those relationships)
anyway, the polaroid metaphor is closer than a computer.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: redgreenvines]
#23780250 - 10/28/16 02:43 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
...you believe what you believe, what can I say 
I do not like mechanical metaphors at all. I have seen what mechanistic conceptual thinking does when applies to life. An example is of course Rene Descartes who thunk animals were machines and dutifully tortured them feeling no compassion for them as they screamed in pain!
Males especially (not all) seem to always try and encapsulate what they think they understand into the current state of the art technology. Now it is computers with the dream of artificial intelligence. All of this becomes a driving myth
Terrence McKenna, a hero to many psychonauts brought these ideas to the table:
Quote:
All of our technologies demand, push forward toward and make inevitable their own obsolescence, so were caught in an evolutionary cascade. You know, people say: "If the AI would break loose, what would it look like, what would it be? Where does humanity fit into the picture?" It's a little hard to imagine. The machines operating in 1000MHz confer automatic immortality on the mammalian nervous system if you can get it somehow uploaded, downloaded, cross loaded into machinery, because ten minutes becomes eternity in a machine like that. source
There we have the promise of immortality (a common promise in solar mythology) brought into the modern or post-modern era.
Like I say, I see a bigger picture. McKenna made out that no one was in control. I do not agree. I think, like Edward Bernay's confessed, there are people who push these myths as a social control, unbeknownst to many, to also make vast profits for a very small elite. And promise of 'immortality' via their technomatrix is right up there on their agenda.
Edited by zzripz (10/28/16 02:44 PM)
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz]
#23780322 - 10/28/16 03:03 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Mckenna was too much of a crack pot; are you a lady fish, denigrating how males swim?
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: howsyournaggerdoin]
#23781219 - 10/28/16 08:46 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
howsyournaggerdoin said:
Quote:
zzripz said: the mind is not a computer!
Its much closer to a computer than you might think
The mind and body form a biological computer made up of the Central Nervous System(brain and spinal cord) and the Peripheral Nervous System(outside brain and spinal cord).
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
Edited by sudly (10/29/16 04:55 AM)
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: redgreenvines]
#23781825 - 10/29/16 04:39 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I remain a mystery~~~to myself
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz]
#23782010 - 10/29/16 08:06 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
at least you have a moist smile engrained in your head.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,660
Loc: The Primordial Mind
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: redgreenvines]
#23782959 - 10/29/16 03:23 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Organism....Earthy creatures.
Computers - Beep Beep Boop./
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
|
beforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
Posts: 1,859
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: The Blind Ass]
#23782998 - 10/29/16 03:37 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Interesting words nice1
-------------------- Hostile humankind Can't you see you're fucking blind?
|
RJ Tubs 202


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA
Last seen: 19 hours, 2 minutes
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz]
#23784307 - 10/30/16 01:51 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zzripz said:
the only thing I will be beware of is ideas such as that.
Yes, our ego wants us to believe our suffering is so very special.
To abandon this foolish idea is scary. We want our suffering to be unique.
If we acknowledge what we go thru millions have gone thru, we lose our grandiosity.
|
RJ Tubs 202


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA
Last seen: 19 hours, 2 minutes
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz]
#23784317 - 10/30/16 02:02 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zzripz said: I am not just against the the biomedical psychiatrists, but also psychologists and psychotherapists who will use this form of oppression on others, acting as gatekeepers for oppressive culture. For both the drug and non drug so-called 'mind expert' they are using power over you to explain that how you are feeling is a disease or cognitive disorder.
Researchers who study behavior aren't trying to change YOU or anyone.
Why do you view cause & effect relationships as "oppression"? Are you paranoid?
Do you want to abandon the investigation why so many people are miserable?
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#23784485 - 10/30/16 05:58 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:
zzripz said:
the only thing I will be beware of is ideas such as that.
Yes, our ego wants us to believe our suffering is so very special.
To abandon this foolish idea is scary. We want our suffering to be unique.
If we acknowledge what we go thru millions have gone thru, we lose our grandiosity.
'our'...?
another's suffering is special and is unique to them. Of course it is.
you just seem to want to wish it away because of some Eastern beliefs you believe in about 'ego'
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#23784487 - 10/30/16 06:02 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:
zzripz said: I am not just against the the biomedical psychiatrists, but also psychologists and psychotherapists who will use this form of oppression on others, acting as gatekeepers for oppressive culture. For both the drug and non drug so-called 'mind expert' they are using power over you to explain that how you are feeling is a disease or cognitive disorder.
Researchers who study behavior aren't trying to change YOU or anyone.
Why do you view cause & effect relationships as "oppression"? Are you paranoid?
Do you want to abandon the investigation why so many people are miserable?
Who is 'STATING' this to me as though you are MY authority?
...could it be...you EGO? 
the ego who knows what's what, and demands others follow what it believes whilst blaming others for having one?
you 'argument' is incredibly superficial and hypocritical
|
howsyournaggerdoin
Happy


Registered: 02/04/16
Posts: 1,600
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz]
#23787523 - 10/31/16 04:26 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zzripz said: please read the article I linked to?
Its way too long so i quickly flew over it. Also its published in a journal known for scaremongering which makes me even less inclined to read the whole thing.
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: howsyournaggerdoin]
#23787600 - 10/31/16 06:11 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Well, a) if you don't make effort to read and watch things you won't learn
and b) so your saying that informing people their minds are not computers is scaremongering?
|
howsyournaggerdoin
Happy


Registered: 02/04/16
Posts: 1,600
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz]
#23787714 - 10/31/16 07:49 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
a) thats true but i have the strong suspicion that the article is unnecessarily long and thus isnt worth reading
b) no im just saying that the reputation of the journal makes me less likely to read the whole article
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: howsyournaggerdoin]
#23789084 - 10/31/16 04:04 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
howsyournaggerdoin said: a) thats true but i have the strong suspicion that the article is unnecessarily long and thus isnt worth reading
b) no im just saying that the reputation of the journal makes me less likely to read the whole article
so a) your one of the Twitter generation who think a paragraph is a novel right?
so b) it is not only the author of that article that says it.
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz]
#23789468 - 10/31/16 06:22 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
i don't think anyone is like reading a sentence on Twitter and going "nice novel but can you shorten it?"
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz]
#23790702 - 11/01/16 08:55 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zzripz said:
Why Minds Are Not Like Computers
the article is not bad, but it is not saying what you think it is saying. It declares that the current trends in AI are inappropriate because we have not yet come to terms about what our minds are and what they do.
It suggests that in some future we will succeed as a species who can create artificial minds but only after we abandon the current directions that have become ingrained.
"we are not programs" that are running it states several times.
for the most part I agree with the author, and while we are each not a digital apparatus, I believe that it will be possible, some day, to simulate consciousness in a digital apparatus after we piece together what is happening in our brains, and we will be able to record experience and play it back one to another using some methods that are not yet developed (and the best proof of that is this very fuzzy cat video)
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: redgreenvines]
#23790759 - 11/01/16 09:28 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
redgreenvines said:
Quote:
zzripz said:
Why Minds Are Not Like Computers
the article is not bad, but it is not saying what you think it is saying. It declares that the current trends in AI are inappropriate because we have not yet come to terms about what our minds are and what they do.
It suggests that in some future we will succeed as a species who can create artificial minds but only after we abandon the current directions that have become ingrained.
"we are not programs" that are running it states several times.
for the most part I agree with the author, and while we are each not a digital apparatus, I believe that it will be possible, some day, to simulate consciousness in a digital apparatus after we piece together what is happening in our brains, and we will be able to record experience and play it back one to another using some methods that are not yet developed (and the best proof of that is this very fuzzy cat video)
Quote:
the article is not bad, but it is not saying what you think it is saying.
patronizing. And don't pretend you know what I think.
Quote:
I believe that it will be possible, some day, to simulate consciousness in a digital apparatus after we piece together what is happening in our brains, and we will be able to record experience and play it back one to another using some methods that are not yet developed
I do not believe that and think it is a preposterous idea dreamed up by technomatrix-heads who do not even know their own minds. You cannot, and that is the point.
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz]
#23790807 - 11/01/16 09:49 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
making the facts of the thread personal does not help clarify anything except that you have some persona feelings about me not about what I am writing.
BTW nobody else bothered to read the article you posted.
I gave you another chance before, many times, and I did it again here, but doing so always bites me. this is a pattern.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: redgreenvines]
#23791024 - 11/01/16 11:18 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
which implies one can be wholly impersonal........? 
lol. yeah sure. If you wanna play those games do, but I sees through 'em'. In actuality there is no such thing as wholly impersonal or wholly personal, like there isn't such a thing as wholly objective or wholly subjective. These are dynamics it helps not to be rude though Mr redgreenvines
In another post you were personal with me saying I was 'addicted to oppression'? You will explain it away as NOT being personal but it is as personal as it can get so don't pretend. Not to me. To yourself most likely.
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz]
#23791052 - 11/01/16 11:26 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
I think you are 95% addicted to the idea of oppression
and I never wrote of wholly personal or wholly impersonal as those distinctions are unrealistic in our natural world where relative purity is always expressed by percent, such as 99.98% for substantially pure.
do you think we have drifted off topic yet?
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: Bigfeely123]
#23791070 - 11/01/16 11:32 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Was reading through an old journal; of mine where I had written:
Quote:
'De~press~ion is the response to a chronic situation of no flux, no escape, so response mirrors the trap. Mono-mood. No way out. not even an idea there could be a way out because the crushing matrix is so all-pervasive. Many people termed 'clinically depressed' aren't even aware why they feel like that. They are un~conscious of real deep reason. Eg, that the culture is toxic.'
This scenario reminds me of the ' rat cage' the Likely Cause of Addiction Has Been Discovered, and It Is Not What You Think
A rat in cage is given choice betwen food or drugs heroin or coke etc, and it chooses the drugs which will even causes it death. However, when introduced to a 'rat park' where it has more freedom than a cage it chooses food and life!
Well many of us live or exist in cages, both physically and psychologically and many not EVEN be aware of being in a cage, but yet manifest symptoms like depression and addiction etc
The 'experts' who are also gatekeepers usually will not even mention the 'cage', or be aware of it themselves, and rather blame the victims because of 'chemical imbalance and/or cognitive distortion'.
|
RJ Tubs 202


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA
Last seen: 19 hours, 2 minutes
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz]
#23799381 - 11/03/16 10:59 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zzripz said:
...another's suffering is special and is unique to them. Of course it is.
There's 7.1 billion people on Earth. Everyone's misery falls into about 5 categories.
Are you claiming there are 7.1 billion types of suffering 
Quote:
zzripz said:
The 'experts' ... rather blame the victims because of 'chemical imbalance and/or cognitive distortion.
There is a ton of evidence cognitive distortions cause misery.
Do you have any idea what cognitive distortions are?
Have you ever studied emotional disturbances?
|
zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#23799825 - 11/04/16 06:32 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:
zzripz said:
...another's suffering is special and is unique to them. Of course it is.
There's 7.1 billion people on Earth. Everyone's misery falls into about 5 categories.
Are you claiming there are 7.1 billion types of suffering 
Quote:
zzripz said:
The 'experts' ... rather blame the victims because of 'chemical imbalance and/or cognitive distortion.
There is a ton of evidence cognitive distortions cause misery.
Do you have any idea what cognitive distortions are?
Have you ever studied emotional disturbances?
lol your funny. Have I studied them? I have experienced them!
And yes, everyone's suffering is unique to them ,,,,obviously.
|
laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz]
#23804033 - 11/05/16 05:21 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Suffering = resistance
the principle is simple
the application tends to be trickier.
Hence some practice Vipassana meditation to retrain the nervous system.
I have seen meditators who were less reactive than the norm to similar stimuli;
but personally I claim little progress in this dimension.
A former poster here: 'icelander' claimed some remarkable results
|
RJ Tubs 202


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA
Last seen: 19 hours, 2 minutes
|
Re: If you suffer from depression is there something chemically wrong inside your brain? [Re: zzripz]
#23804944 - 11/05/16 09:56 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zzripz said:
Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
Have you ever studied emotional disturbances?
lol your funny. Have I studied them? I have experienced them!
Everyone experiences emotional disturbances. Very few have investigated what causes them!
When someone pulls a gun trigger, there are cognitive distortions in play.
|
|