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OfflineEzuma
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Re: The Jobless Economy Is Fast Approaching. Whats The Plan? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #23690637 - 09/29/16 01:33 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
The problem is that corporations aren't sharing their profits with the people that earned it for them.



Did corporations all of a sudden get greedy?  NO. Corporations ALWAYS wanted one thing- PROFITS.



They didnt get greedier. They got Nixon and Reagan to bust unions, deregulate, cut taxes, and move jobs overseas. Then they made it the neoliberal norm, and got both parties to do it in no time.



Nailed it.  I don't know how many times this has to be repeated until conservatives either refute these points or accept them.  It's getting old.




let's just keep repeating it until it's acknowledged :strokebeard:


Edited by Ezuma (09/29/16 01:34 PM)


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Jobless Economy Is Fast Approaching. Whats The Plan? [Re: qman] * 1
    #23690640 - 09/29/16 01:35 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Workers' share of profits has been declining for a while now...and move jobs overseas



So why would anyone consider that "normal" employment compared to past years?



Because if we were in past years, there'd be a really tight labor market instead of just a normal one.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Jobless Economy Is Fast Approaching. Whats The Plan? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23690648 - 09/29/16 01:36 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Right now half of the workforce isnt out of work.



Where'd you get that number?  Even if we look at U6 unemployment, the unemployment rate is only 9.7%.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineEzuma
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Re: The Jobless Economy Is Fast Approaching. Whats The Plan? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #23690668 - 09/29/16 01:43 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Right now half of the workforce isnt out of work.



Where'd you get that number?  Even if we look at U6 unemployment, the unemployment rate is only 9.7%.




I think what he meant is half of the workforce Is not out of work, being an inefficient way of saying far less than 50% is out of work

otherwise ya..


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: The Jobless Economy Is Fast Approaching. Whats The Plan? [Re: Ezuma]
    #23690693 - 09/29/16 01:50 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Right now half of the workforce isnt out of work.



Where'd you get that number?  Even if we look at U6 unemployment, the unemployment rate is only 9.7%.





labor force particicpation rate was 62.5% of whatever the definition of 'work force' is in 2015.  You subtract the U6 from that number to give you what percentage of the labor force is employed FULL TIME.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Jobless Economy Is Fast Approaching. Whats The Plan? [Re: Ezuma]
    #23690706 - 09/29/16 01:54 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ezuma said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Right now half of the workforce isnt out of work.



Where'd you get that number?  Even if we look at U6 unemployment, the unemployment rate is only 9.7%.




I think what he meant is half of the workforce Is not out of work, being an inefficient way of saying far less than 50% is out of work

otherwise ya..



You're right - I misread the post, thanks.  :toast:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Jobless Economy Is Fast Approaching. Whats The Plan? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 2
    #23690710 - 09/29/16 01:55 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Right now half of the workforce isnt out of work.



Where'd you get that number?  Even if we look at U6 unemployment, the unemployment rate is only 9.7%.




???

I said ISNT. HU thinks we can raise taxes to offset an unemploymeny that high and climbing, when that simply isnt feasible. Thered be no incentive to even get a job at that point.

Edit: :lol:


Also: The mechanisms we have in place now are already arguably unsustainable, growing them five fold with half the tax revenue to fund them with is not a plan.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Jobless Economy Is Fast Approaching. Whats The Plan? [Re: starfire_xes]
    #23690726 - 09/29/16 01:58 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
labor force particicpation rate was 62.5% of whatever the definition of 'work force' is in 2015.  You subtract the U6 from that number to give you what percentage of the labor force is employed FULL TIME.



Why would you count people going to college, people who can retire early, and people who simply don't want to work???


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Jobless Economy Is Fast Approaching. Whats The Plan? [Re: starfire_xes] * 1
    #23690899 - 09/29/16 02:51 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Even if it was the case that only 50% of the workforce had full time jobs (it isnt), our safety net programs would still prove inefficient.

Raising taxes on a dwindling workforce isnt going to save us.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Jobless Economy Is Fast Approaching. Whats The Plan? [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #23691138 - 09/29/16 04:22 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Even if it was the case that only 50% of the workforce had full time jobs (it isnt), our safety net programs would still prove inefficient.

Raising taxes on a dwindling workforce isnt going to save us.



Agreed.  Reducing the work week and increasing the minimum wage accordingly would work.  If the workforce is going away, that means efficiency is going through the roof, which means you can do the same work for a lot less labor, which means you'll have a lot more money to pay your employees for the time they do work.  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Jobless Economy Is Fast Approaching. Whats The Plan? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #23691158 - 09/29/16 04:32 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Although I agree, that carries with it the underlying assumption that increases in productivity (and profits) should benefit workers equally as well as shareholders. Thats something about half the country seems to disagree with.

I'm confident public opinion will shift eventually, the majority will tire of this capitalism rollercoaster sooner or later, right?


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Jobless Economy Is Fast Approaching. Whats The Plan? [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #23691169 - 09/29/16 04:37 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

That's true, either the public has to agree, or suffer.  And 1/2 the population always seems to be in the latter category so who knows?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Jobless Economy Is Fast Approaching. Whats The Plan? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #23691182 - 09/29/16 04:43 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Our economic overlords are already placing blame on emerging nations for "stealing away" our standard of living.

I'm sure this rhetoric will ramp up as time goes on.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: The Jobless Economy Is Fast Approaching. Whats The Plan? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23691508 - 09/29/16 06:18 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

When do you think politicians will start bringing all this up?  They can't ignore it forever, but obviously it is expedient for them to remain silent as long as they possibly can.  When will we shift from speeches filled with "more and more jobs" to "it's natural for jobs to be eliminated as technology improves"?


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: The Jobless Economy Is Fast Approaching. Whats The Plan? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23691707 - 09/29/16 06:56 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Even if it was the case that only 50% of the workforce had full time jobs (it isnt), our safety net programs would still prove inefficient.

Raising taxes on a dwindling workforce isnt going to save us.




Then why do progressives think it's the answer now?

Raising taxes is all we hear from the left, like I've said before, if Bernie had won, I'd fucking retire, no way would I work for the piddly sums the govt "let's me" keep from my paycheck, I'd just retire and ride the freeloader gravy train like all the other freeloaders, luckily, I can keep working :cookiemonster:


--------------------
http://www.countdowntotrump.com





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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Jobless Economy Is Fast Approaching. Whats The Plan? [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #23691766 - 09/29/16 07:07 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
When do you think politicians will start bringing all this up?  They can't ignore it forever, but obviously it is expedient for them to remain silent as long as they possibly can.  When will we shift from speeches filled with "more and more jobs" to "it's natural for jobs to be eliminated as technology improves"?



As I noted above, "Unemployment is back to normal and corporate profits are at all time record highs."  Until we see a change in one of these two factors, it's unlikely to be brought up.  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Jobless Economy Is Fast Approaching. Whats The Plan? [Re: hostileuniverse] * 1
    #23691889 - 09/29/16 07:38 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
When do you think politicians will start bringing all this up?  They can't ignore it forever, but obviously it is expedient for them to remain silent as long as they possibly can.  When will we shift from speeches filled with "more and more jobs" to "it's natural for jobs to be eliminated as technology improves"?




Honestly, I cant even imagine politicians making statements like that. But I'd say the issue will be forced well before 2050.

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Even if it was the case that only 50% of the workforce had full time jobs (it isnt), our safety net programs would still prove inefficient.

Raising taxes on a dwindling workforce isnt going to save us.




Then why do progressives think it's the answer now?

Raising taxes is all we hear from the left, like I've said before, if Bernie had won, I'd fucking retire, no way would I work for the piddly sums the govt "let's me" keep from my paycheck, I'd just retire and ride the freeloader gravy train like all the other freeloaders, luckily, I can keep working :cookiemonster:




Because, like i've said multiple times, the unemploymenf rate is easy to offset with safety net programs. When a vast majority of the population doesnt have jobs that wont be the case.


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OfflineAnahata


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Re: The Jobless Economy Is Fast Approaching. Whats The Plan? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23694217 - 09/30/16 02:31 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Posting for read later.


((-_-))


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Offlineqman
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Re: The Jobless Economy Is Fast Approaching. Whats The Plan? [Re: Anahata]
    #23694244 - 09/30/16 02:40 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
When do you think politicians will start bringing all this up?  They can't ignore it forever, but obviously it is expedient for them to remain silent as long as they possibly can.  When will we shift from speeches filled with "more and more jobs" to "it's natural for jobs to be eliminated as technology improves"?




The politicians blame labor for labor's problems.  "You need more skills and education" is the most popular slogan.

They never blame open borders flooding the markets with cheap labor or companies moving operations to other countries, funny how that works.

Some European politicians told their citizens to move to other parts of the world if they wanted employment. I know in Japan the idea of more education is no longer used as a polticial excuse for poor employment prospects.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: The Jobless Economy Is Fast Approaching. Whats The Plan? [Re: qman]
    #23694255 - 09/30/16 02:48 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
I know in Japan the idea of more education is no longer used as a polticial excuse for poor employment prospects.




That's coming here, too.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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